In light of the attacks in Paris...shall we discuss gun control?

[2aguy]

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7][/QUOTE]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?[/QUOTE]

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.[/QUOTE]



And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.

 

[Brain357]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

Last time I read through the list I recall many were done by the time the armed hero showed up. Like the first one the kid was in his car leaving I believe. When reading things from gun sources it's important to compare their claims to real sources.

You missed the point that the kid was going on to another location to kill more people when the armed citizen stopped him….that is the point…no armed citizen and the killer moves on and kills more people…..

Stopping the mass shooting is the whole point of having armed citizens…you don't get to say…gee, the armed citizen stopped the guy at only 3 victims, therefore he didn't stop a mass shooting…..nice try though...

How do you know what he was doing? Why didn't he stay there and keep shooting people? You guys make things up and claim victory.

A principal and his gun


The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car.

His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

You'd have to find that claim in a real source for me to believe it.

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting Woodham attempting to flee the parking lot after the shooting, shouted for him to stop. After Woodham's mother's car got stuck in the grass, Myrick ordered him out of the car at gunpoint and detained Woodham until police arrived at the scene.[8]

 

[2aguy]

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7][/QUOTE]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?[/QUOTE]

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.[/QUOTE]


The major point which you want to hide is that the only reason he was under pressure is because there was an armed citizen pointing a gun at him……but ignore that and try to make your dumb points anyway…….again….no armed citizens in the French concert hall……and they had no problem shooting people one at a time…until the guys with guns showed up to stop them…and there was a full concert hall and only 8 of the attackers….and yet they still managed to reload and murder those people…and no one was able to rush them….

 

[2aguy]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

Last time I read through the list I recall many were done by the time the armed hero showed up. Like the first one the kid was in his car leaving I believe. When reading things from gun sources it's important to compare their claims to real sources.

You missed the point that the kid was going on to another location to kill more people when the armed citizen stopped him….that is the point…no armed citizen and the killer moves on and kills more people…..

Stopping the mass shooting is the whole point of having armed citizens…you don't get to say…gee, the armed citizen stopped the guy at only 3 victims, therefore he didn't stop a mass shooting…..nice try though...

How do you know what he was doing? Why didn't he stay there and keep shooting people? You guys make things up and claim victory.

A principal and his gun


The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car.

His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

You'd have to find that claim in a real source for me to believe it.

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting Woodham attempting to flee the parking lot after the shooting, shouted for him to stop. After Woodham's mother's car got stuck in the grass, Myrick ordered him out of the car at gunpoint and detained Woodham until police arrived at the scene.[8]

Yeah…the guy who actually researched the story……can't trust him…or the police…..or facts…or reality…...

 

[M14 Shooter]

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading.

Rosa parks did not need to sit in front of the bus.
Betting you do not understand the point.

Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers.

They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US.

Grenade launcher are legal in the US?

AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured.

The Sandyhook shooter stole the AR from his mother, after he killer her.
The Aurora shooter passed every background check required by law.
So what?

They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time.

And yet are virtually never used to murder someone.

Not sue what your point in all this is, other than to illustrate how well you can argue from emotion and/or ignorance.

 

[OldLady]

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading. Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers. They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US. AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured. They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time. AK-47's are in such high demand, we've started producing them in the US since the Russian model was banned. That was bin-Laden's favorite.
Someone will no doubt start spouting a bunch of numbers at me, but as much as I want to understand both sides of this issue, these type of guns seem to be just plain 'overkill.' (pardon the pun).

Do you realize that knives, blunt objects and empty hands have killed far more people in this country than AR-15s have…..I can get the number from FBI table 8 but so can you…..

Those type of guns are used by our employees..the police and military….we employ them, we equip them….and as history has shown, only unarmed populations are victims of genocide and mass murder…so any rifle the police or military uses is exactly the weapon the civilians get to have as well….it keeps genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing as nothing more than a bad idea….

And do you realize that in Sandy Hook and Aurora, they could have killed just as many people with shotguns and pistols….they were drawn to those weapons because of video games and press coverage….

AR-15s are not military weapons….military weapons have select fire capability….and other rifles could easily be substituted for the AR…..as well…..

The biggest thing about Sandy Hook and Aurora….they were both gun free zones……no one besides the killer was allowed to have a gun in the zone….and that is why there were so many people killed….we saw that in France as well…..

Sandy Hook…the killer also attended the middle school and the high school….but only the elementary school did not have an armed resource officer…

Aurora…the killer had intended on going and shooting up an airport…but decided against it because of the armed security…..so he chose a gun free movie theater instead….

Gun free zones are the problem, not AR-15s…

There are over 1 million AR-15s in private hands….less than a handful are ever used in any crime in any year…..they are not a problem.

Hey, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the advisability of citizens owning military-style weapons. Because the police use them doesn't make it necessary for my next door neighbor who works at WalMart to have one. The folks who believe we need to be armed to defend against an attack by the US government can procure their weapons illegally, like every other revolutionary force in the world.

Trying to get facts without getting sucked into a biased website twisting all the same figures is really hard, isn't it? I did look up AR-15's in the Brittanica Encyclopedia, and it evolved from the M-16. My son says they're great for shooting ducks, too. I appreciate you not calling me an asshole, though. trying to at least hear min

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading. Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers. They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US. AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured. They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time. AK-47's are in such high demand, we've started producing them in the US since the Russian model was banned. That was bin-Laden's favorite.
Someone will no doubt start spouting a bunch of numbers at me, but as much as I want to understand both sides of this issue, these type of guns seem to be just plain 'overkill.' (pardon the pun).

Do you realize that knives, blunt objects and empty hands have killed far more people in this country than AR-15s have…..I can get the number from FBI table 8 but so can you…..

Those type of guns are used by our employees..the police and military….we employ them, we equip them….and as history has shown, only unarmed populations are victims of genocide and mass murder…so any rifle the police or military uses is exactly the weapon the civilians get to have as well….it keeps genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing as nothing more than a bad idea….

And do you realize that in Sandy Hook and Aurora, they could have killed just as many people with shotguns and pistols….they were drawn to those weapons because of video games and press coverage….

AR-15s are not military weapons….military weapons have select fire capability….and other rifles could easily be substituted for the AR…..as well…..

The biggest thing about Sandy Hook and Aurora….they were both gun free zones……no one besides the killer was allowed to have a gun in the zone….and that is why there were so many people killed….we saw that in France as well…..

Sandy Hook…the killer also attended the middle school and the high school….but only the elementary school did not have an armed resource officer…

Aurora…the killer had intended on going and shooting up an airport…but decided against it because of the armed security…..so he chose a gun free movie theater instead….

Gun free zones are the problem, not AR-15s…

There are over 1 million AR-15s in private hands….less than a handful are ever used in any crime in any year…

 

[Brain357]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

Last time I read through the list I recall many were done by the time the armed hero showed up. Like the first one the kid was in his car leaving I believe. When reading things from gun sources it's important to compare their claims to real sources.

You missed the point that the kid was going on to another location to kill more people when the armed citizen stopped him….that is the point…no armed citizen and the killer moves on and kills more people…..

Stopping the mass shooting is the whole point of having armed citizens…you don't get to say…gee, the armed citizen stopped the guy at only 3 victims, therefore he didn't stop a mass shooting…..nice try though...

How do you know what he was doing? Why didn't he stay there and keep shooting people? You guys make things up and claim victory.

A principal and his gun


The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car.

His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

You'd have to find that claim in a real source for me to believe it.

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting Woodham attempting to flee the parking lot after the shooting, shouted for him to stop. After Woodham's mother's car got stuck in the grass, Myrick ordered him out of the car at gunpoint and detained Woodham until police arrived at the scene.[8]

Sounds like he had specific targets.
CNN - Teen guilty in Mississippi school-shooting rampage - June 12, 1998

 

[kaz]

And when you add in that guns prevent way more people from being shot than are shot by them accidentally then your argument is deluged

But you have no real basis for that claim.

I don't? 2aguy has provided it to you repeatedly

Yes and the numbers are a joke. He claims more defensed than there are crimes committed. And that still doesn't mean any lives are saved. Fact is there are almost no reported defenses and those are the only ones you can count.

You scoured the DNC website and liberals blogs and found no support at all, did you? I see your point, obviously a gun is no defense for a criminal, you are too keen to see through that thinly veiled shroud

The numbers are greatly exaggerated however lawful defenses do happen.

Greatly exaggerated by who? Aliens?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading.

Rosa Parks did not need to sit in front of the bus.
Betting you do not understand the point.

Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers.

They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US.

Grenade launcher are legal in the US?

AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured.

The Sandyhook shooter stole the AR from his mother, after he killed her.
The Aurora shooter passed every background check required by law.
So what?

They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time.

And yet are virtually never used to murder someone.

Not sue what your point in all this is, other than to illustrate how well you can argue from emotion and/or ignorance.

 

[Brain357]

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?[/QUOTE]

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.[/QUOTE]



And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.[/QUOTE]

Having to reload stopped this guy.

 

[2aguy]

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading. Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers. They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US. AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured. They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time. AK-47's are in such high demand, we've started producing them in the US since the Russian model was banned. That was bin-Laden's favorite.
Someone will no doubt start spouting a bunch of numbers at me, but as much as I want to understand both sides of this issue, these type of guns seem to be just plain 'overkill.' (pardon the pun).

Do you realize that knives, blunt objects and empty hands have killed far more people in this country than AR-15s have…..I can get the number from FBI table 8 but so can you…..

Those type of guns are used by our employees..the police and military….we employ them, we equip them….and as history has shown, only unarmed populations are victims of genocide and mass murder…so any rifle the police or military uses is exactly the weapon the civilians get to have as well….it keeps genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing as nothing more than a bad idea….

And do you realize that in Sandy Hook and Aurora, they could have killed just as many people with shotguns and pistols….they were drawn to those weapons because of video games and press coverage….

AR-15s are not military weapons….military weapons have select fire capability….and other rifles could easily be substituted for the AR…..as well…..

The biggest thing about Sandy Hook and Aurora….they were both gun free zones……no one besides the killer was allowed to have a gun in the zone….and that is why there were so many people killed….we saw that in France as well…..

Sandy Hook…the killer also attended the middle school and the high school….but only the elementary school did not have an armed resource officer…

Aurora…the killer had intended on going and shooting up an airport…but decided against it because of the armed security…..so he chose a gun free movie theater instead….

Gun free zones are the problem, not AR-15s…

There are over 1 million AR-15s in private hands….less than a handful are ever used in any crime in any year…..they are not a problem.

Hey, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the advisability of citizens owning military-style weapons. Because the police use them doesn't make it necessary for my next door neighbor who works at WalMart to have one. The folks who believe we need to be armed to defend against an attack by the US government can procure their weapons illegally, like every other revolutionary force in the world.

Trying to get facts without getting sucked into a biased website twisting all the same figures is really hard, isn't it? I did look up AR-15's in the Brittanica Encyclopedia, and it evolved from the M-16. My son says they're great for shooting ducks, too. I appreciate you not calling me an asshole, though. trying to at least hear min

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading. Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers. They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US. AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured. They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time. AK-47's are in such high demand, we've started producing them in the US since the Russian model was banned. That was bin-Laden's favorite.
Someone will no doubt start spouting a bunch of numbers at me, but as much as I want to understand both sides of this issue, these type of guns seem to be just plain 'overkill.' (pardon the pun).

Do you realize that knives, blunt objects and empty hands have killed far more people in this country than AR-15s have…..I can get the number from FBI table 8 but so can you…..

Those type of guns are used by our employees..the police and military….we employ them, we equip them….and as history has shown, only unarmed populations are victims of genocide and mass murder…so any rifle the police or military uses is exactly the weapon the civilians get to have as well….it keeps genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing as nothing more than a bad idea….

And do you realize that in Sandy Hook and Aurora, they could have killed just as many people with shotguns and pistols….they were drawn to those weapons because of video games and press coverage….

AR-15s are not military weapons….military weapons have select fire capability….and other rifles could easily be substituted for the AR…..as well…..

The biggest thing about Sandy Hook and Aurora….they were both gun free zones……no one besides the killer was allowed to have a gun in the zone….and that is why there were so many people killed….we saw that in France as well…..

Sandy Hook…the killer also attended the middle school and the high school….but only the elementary school did not have an armed resource officer…

Aurora…the killer had intended on going and shooting up an airport…but decided against it because of the armed security…..so he chose a gun free movie theater instead….

Gun free zones are the problem, not AR-15s…

There are over 1 million AR-15s in private hands….less than a handful are ever used in any crime in any year…

You seem reasonable…I save swearing at people for the ones who have attacked me or who lie…..

Look at any genocide ever committed…..they all have one thing in common, the people murdered were all unarmed…and getting illegal guns in a police state is almost impossible, since they will use torture to get information out of people and they actually lock up people they fear…..we tend to let gun criminals go with light sentences….

if the police and military have a weapon, then the people who are their employers get that weapon first…..we are not the subjects of the police and military…they are our employees….

As an exercise, try finding a genocide, mass murder or ethnic cleansing that ever happened to a well armed people…..

 

[2aguy]

Last time I read through the list I recall many were done by the time the armed hero showed up. Like the first one the kid was in his car leaving I believe. When reading things from gun sources it's important to compare their claims to real sources.

You missed the point that the kid was going on to another location to kill more people when the armed citizen stopped him….that is the point…no armed citizen and the killer moves on and kills more people…..

Stopping the mass shooting is the whole point of having armed citizens…you don't get to say…gee, the armed citizen stopped the guy at only 3 victims, therefore he didn't stop a mass shooting…..nice try though...

How do you know what he was doing? Why didn't he stay there and keep shooting people? You guys make things up and claim victory.

A principal and his gun


The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car.

His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

You'd have to find that claim in a real source for me to believe it.

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting Woodham attempting to flee the parking lot after the shooting, shouted for him to stop. After Woodham's mother's car got stuck in the grass, Myrick ordered him out of the car at gunpoint and detained Woodham until police arrived at the scene.[8]

Sounds like he had specific targets.
CNN - Teen guilty in Mississippi school-shooting rampage - June 12, 1998

and he was going to another school……and was stopped…..he could have killed himself on the site of the first shooting…..like the others who didn't plan on leaving the scene...

 

[2aguy]

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.[/QUOTE]



And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.[/QUOTE]

Having to reload stopped this guy.[/QUOTE]


No….having an armed citizen confronting this guy stopped him…..no armed citizen and he goes on shooting….why is that such a hard concept for you…….? Take away the armed citizen…and he starts shooting again, instead, he goes and shoots himself…….facts, reality and the truth…you just don't like them do you….?

 

[2aguy]

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.[/QUOTE]



And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.[/QUOTE]

Having to reload stopped this guy.[/QUOTE]


So….no armed guy….he reloads…and starts shooting some more…….he reloads…and shoots some more…he reloads and shoots some more…



in reality…..he sees an armed guy pointing a gun at him he runs and commits suicide….

That is not a difficult concept...

 

[Brain357]

You missed the point that the kid was going on to another location to kill more people when the armed citizen stopped him….that is the point…no armed citizen and the killer moves on and kills more people…..

Stopping the mass shooting is the whole point of having armed citizens…you don't get to say…gee, the armed citizen stopped the guy at only 3 victims, therefore he didn't stop a mass shooting…..nice try though...

How do you know what he was doing? Why didn't he stay there and keep shooting people? You guys make things up and claim victory.

A principal and his gun


The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car.

His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

You'd have to find that claim in a real source for me to believe it.

The school's assistant principal, Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol from his truck and, spotting Woodham attempting to flee the parking lot after the shooting, shouted for him to stop. After Woodham's mother's car got stuck in the grass, Myrick ordered him out of the car at gunpoint and detained Woodham until police arrived at the scene.[8]

Sounds like he had specific targets.
CNN - Teen guilty in Mississippi school-shooting rampage - June 12, 1998

and he was going to another school……and was stopped…..he could have killed himself on the site of the first shooting…..like the others who didn't plan on leaving the scene...

Says the gun source which are usually not honest.

 

[Brain357]

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.

And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.[/QUOTE]

Having to reload stopped this guy.[/QUOTE]


No….having an armed citizen confronting this guy stopped him…..no armed citizen and he goes on shooting….why is that such a hard concept for you…….? Take away the armed citizen…and he starts shooting again, instead, he goes and shoots himself…….facts, reality and the truth…you just don't like them do you….?[/QUOTE]

The story is pretty clear that he probably didn't even see the citizen. You claim victory where it doesn't exist. Clearly mag limits would save lives. Same thing with Giffords shooting. And while there are many examples where lives would be saved, there are none where limits would cost lives.

 

[Brain357]

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

This example it sounds more like he dropped all his magazines and couldn't load his ar and then committed suicide to me. Great example for mag limits.

At this point, hundreds of people fled the mall after hearing the gunshots, but many remained inside and dashed to cover. Roberts headed further toward the food court, firing at 16-year-old employee Alina Pavlenko, who was over 100 feet away, but missed. He also dropped three other magazines in his possession.[1] He then turned back and headed toward a JCPenney store. He attempted to reload the AR-15 at that point, but was unable to do so, the weapon having apparently jammed. During that time, Nick Meli, a concealed carry permit holder, drew his Glock 22, claimed to have taken aim at Roberts, but did not fire since there was a bystander behind Roberts. Meli claims that Roberts saw him and that this may have contributed to Roberts' decision to commit suicide.[7]

A link to the article you are using would be nice….


No, not a great example for mag limits…considering he didn't know how to operate the weapon under pressure but still managed to get it working to commit suicide after Meli pointed the gun at him….

Notice the thing you try to ignore…..he stopped shooting at other people once Meli was seen……he was then under the pressure of someone targeting him and he stopped shooting and killed himself….

Hmmmm…France doesn't allow anyone to have any magazines…..at all…….how did that work out for the concert goers….?

Yes couldn't operate under pressure. Better he shots ten times before he can't reload than 30. Mag limits would save lives.

And the fact that magazines are completely banned in France…..how many lives did that save? And as video after video shows, it takes no time at all to reload……and they could do all they wanted with pistols and just discard the pistol and use another one…….you are a twit.[/QUOTE]

Having to reload stopped this guy.[/QUOTE]


So….no armed guy….he reloads…and starts shooting some more…….he reloads…and shoots some more…he reloads and shoots some more…



in reality…..he sees an armed guy pointing a gun at him he runs and commits suicide….

That is not a difficult concept...[/QUOTE]

The guy wasn't even sure if he saw him.

 

[paulitician]

All the signs point to an ugly dismal future. More & more Americans are seeing the signs, and are deciding to arm themselves. I don't blame em. Open Borders, Endless War, an expanding Police State. The future doesn't look too bright. It would be wise to prepare.

 

[OldLady]

Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers.

They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US.

Grenade launcher are legal in the US?

AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured.

The Sandyhook shooter stole the AR from his mother, after he killed her.
The Aurora shooter passed every background check required by law.
So what?

They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time.

And yet are virtually never used to murder someone.

Not sue what your point in all this is, other than to illustrate how well you can argue from emotion and/or ignorance.[/QUOTE]

M14, I thought I made my point quite clearly. Is YOUR emotion making it difficult for you to hear me? And yes, according to an article I read shortly after Sandy Hook, grenade launchers and flame throwers are legal to own. Fortunately, grenades aren't....

"No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading."
your reply:
"Rosa Parks did not need to sit in front of the bus.
Betting you do not understand the point."

You're right. I don't think I do.

 

[easyt65]

And yes, there were suicide bombers too.

Praise Allah and let me take non-believers with me.

Can you pass laws to stop that?

I don't think there are specific laws against concealed carry of a suicide vest, which is probably why the terrorists chose to use them in Paris. I am sure once someone passes that law terrorists will cease using that tactic.