Incompetent United Air Lines Physically Drags Passenger Off Plane For Their (Airline) Mistake

[rightwinger]

...
You mock him as faking injury as he was dragged off a plane. I saw someone either knocked out or severely dazed. Someone resisting removal would have been struggling and hooking his legs onto seats as he was dragged
You mock his actions when he came back on the plane bleeding and mumbling....I have to get home. I saw someone who looks dazed and like he had recently regained consciousness

Just one of the reasons to deplane all the witnesses passengers first.

Dao broke multiple laws. One was running back onto the plane.

Interesting

Dao had a concussion, broken nose and two teeth knocked out
You think his staggering back onto the plane in a daze is a crime?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Dao will have the sympathy of any court because he was in the right...

Disagreed, but time will tell. In the end, I suspect United will throw some money at him to shut him up and put this behind them and Dao will take plea deals from both the Feds and the State to avoid jail time.

In Basketball, It's Called "Flopping"

If United pays off this nasty pervert, others will try the same scam.

 

[rightwinger]

Dao will have the sympathy of any court because he was in the right...

Disagreed, but time will tell. In the end, I suspect United will throw some money at him to shut him up and put this behind them and Dao will take plea deals from both the Feds and the State to avoid jail time.

In Basketball, It's Called "Flopping"

If United pays off this nasty pervert, others will try the same scam.

Good luck with that one

Hard to fake a concussion, broken nose and two missing teeth

 

[rightwinger]

Hard to believe this story keeps getting worse

United is now scrambling to mitigate the damage

 

[OnePercenter]

UAL stock is fine. That's all that matters.

 

[Faun]

You're arguing semantics. It doesn't matter when the overbooking occurred and by what circumstance it occurred. When you have more bodies than seats, you're overbooked.

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines
RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.

--------------------
RULE 24 FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS/AIRCRAFT CHANGES

1. 
   
   
   • General
     1. S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flights originate in the U.S.A., the provisions of this Rule apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight that incurs a Schedule Change, Force Majeure Event or Irregular Operations.
     2. Non-U.S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flight originates outside the U.S.A., the following provisions apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight:
        1. If local or international laws regulate a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will not be applied.
        2. If no local law otherwise regulates a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will be applied.

-----------------------
Definitions - For the purpose of this Rule, the following terms have the meanings below:

1. 
   
   
   • Schedule Change – an advance change in UA’s schedule (including a change in operating carrier or itinerary) that is not a unique event such as Irregular Operations or Force Majeure Event as defined below.
   • Connecting Point – a point to which a Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of one carrier and out of which the Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of the same or another carrier. All airports through which a city is served by any carrier will be deemed to be a single Connecting Point when the receiving carrier has confirmed reservations to the Delivering Carrier.
   • Delivering Carrier – a carrier on whose flight a Passenger holds or held confirmed space to a Connecting Point.
   • Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
     1. Any condition beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, meteorological or geological conditions, acts of God, riots, terrorist activities, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, disturbances, or unsettled international conditions, either actual, anticipated, threatened or reported, or any delay, demand, circumstances, or requirement due directly or indirectly to such condition;
     2. Any strike, work stoppage, slowdown, lockout, or any other labor-related dispute involving or affecting UA’s services;
     3. Any governmental regulation, demand or requirement;
     4. Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
     5. Damage to UA’s Aircraft or equipment caused by another party;
     6. Any emergency situation requiring immediate care or protection for a person or property; or
     7. Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.

Great, none of those apply to Dao. Thanks for playing.

 

[MikeK]

Then show me specifically where their contract states a paid, non-belligerent, non-abusive, non- threatenening, compliant passanger has to give up his seat that he's already in; for a United employee...

Let the law sort it out. Do you at least agree that Dao committed a crime when he refused to obey a lawful order from a Chicago police officer?

I don't have enough facts to answer that. I don't know if they properly identified themselves as officers. The guy who yanked Dao out of his seat was dressed in jeans and a jacket. Could be Dao didn't know they were law enforcement.

Good point.

 

[Pogo]

UAL stock is fine. That's all that matters.

..... to the cause of fascism.

Finished it for ya.

 

[MikeK]

Then show me specifically where their contract states a paid, non-belligerent, non-abusive, non- threatenening, compliant passanger has to give up his seat that he's already in; for a United employee...

Let the law sort it out. Do you at least agree that Dao committed a crime when he refused to obey a lawful order from a Chicago police officer?

I don't have enough facts to answer that. I don't know if they properly identified themselves as officers. The guy who yanked Dao out of his seat was dressed in jeans and a jacket. Could be Dao didn't know they were law enforcement.

1) The investigation will reveal the facts.
2) The uniforms and badges are a clue:

3)A fair point. I don't know who Mr. Jeans was, but it appears he came on afterwards. From what I've read, he's a police officer and the first one put on administrative leave. The other two were put on leave later.

"Dept. Of Aviation Police"

These guys are on a par with the Sewer Cops. Every one of the inflated goons will be fired and I'd wager one of them will be criminally charged.

 

[Divine Wind]

There should be no recourse, to Force Majeure for the private sector, but for actual emergencies.

Capital should work fine in the private sector in public accommodation.

There should be no limits on compensation due to airlines routinely overbooking, simply for the bottom line.

So if you're flying to Miami and there's a hurricane there, you expect the airline to continue to fly as scheduled or pay 1000% compensation? Interesting.

The next time you fly, pay the extra $15 or so for an exit row seat for the extra legroom. When the flight attendant briefs you and asks if you are willing to operate the exit in an emergency and assist others, say "No, I won't". When you asks you to move say "No, I won't. I paid for this seat and the customer is always right". Let me know how that works out for you.

Agreed. No overbooking ever. I'm good with that. That's not the problem on this flight, but I'm still good with it.

 

[Divine Wind]

Once they had boarded a plane and United employees showed up demanding seats they had two options

1. Ask for volunteers to give up their seat. Offer increasing compensation until someone accepts
2. In the absence of volunteers, find alternative travel plans for your employees

They didn't show up "demanding seats", they were ordered there by Republic Airlines scheduling.

1. They did. IIRC, the limit is up to 400% of the ticket price. Ticket price average on that flight is about $220. I'm curious what Dao paid for his.

2. It's a business. Why pay $100,000 for a Nancy Pelosi 757 when cancelling the flight, refunding $16K in fares and simply ferrying the aircraft with the spare crew is cheaper?

Yes, they "demanded seats"
They did not show up and ask if they could be accommodated if seats were available. They demanded that people be bumped to accommodate their needs

The limit is the minimum they can be required, by law to offer. United can offer anything they want. What Dao paid for his seat is irrelevant. He offered to pay a certain fare for a seat and United accepted that offer

You are correct....United is a business
As a business, they put their profit above the needs of their passengers. They learned an important lesson as their CEO was forced to repeatedly grovel in his apologies

Wrong on so many points that have already been explained to you I'd rather listen to you bitch and moan about how Hillary actually "won" the election instead.

 

[Divine Wind]

UAL stock is fine. That's all that matters.

..... to the cause of fascism.

Finished it for ya.

Then show me specifically where their contract states a paid, non-belligerent, non-abusive, non- threatenening, compliant passanger has to give up his seat that he's already in; for a United employee...

Let the law sort it out. Do you at least agree that Dao committed a crime when he refused to obey a lawful order from a Chicago police officer?

I don't have enough facts to answer that. I don't know if they properly identified themselves as officers. The guy who yanked Dao out of his seat was dressed in jeans and a jacket. Could be Dao didn't know they were law enforcement.

1) The investigation will reveal the facts.
2) The uniforms and badges are a clue:

3)A fair point. I don't know who Mr. Jeans was, but it appears he came on afterwards. From what I've read, he's a police officer and the first one put on administrative leave. The other two were put on leave later.

"Dept. Of Aviation Police"

These guys are on a par with the Sewer Cops. Every one of the inflated goons will be fired and I'd wager one of them will be criminally charged.

Fucking Liberals always hate the police.

 

[Divine Wind]

There should be no limits on compensation. They overbook for the bottom line.

The flight wasn't overbooked. The four passengers needed to be deplaned when, apparently, a flight crew needed to be moved to SDF. It's simple math: Better to inconvenience 4 passengers rather than inconveniencing up to 75 passengers the next morning.

A Cessna couldn't have done the job? Paying customers are, always right.

United's original response was...We followed the rules and the guy did not accept our request...even though we asked real nice

As of yesterday, their CEO is groveling, throwing money around and claiming the customer is always right

Which means exactly nothing when it comes to Federal and State laws.

 

[Divine Wind]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

Haven't seen him arrested for breaking any laws......seems to be your interpretation

Looks like you owe me $25 million you Deadbeat

Now, not only are you lying but you seem desperate? Why?

 

[Divine Wind]

Dao will have the sympathy of any court because he was in the right...

Disagreed, but time will tell. In the end, I suspect United will throw some money at him to shut him up and put this behind them and Dao will take plea deals from both the Feds and the State to avoid jail time.

In Basketball, It's Called "Flopping"

If United pays off this nasty pervert, others will try the same scam.

Agreed. United wants to avoid a PR nightmare for something they didn't do, but if they pay off Dao, thousands of passengers will start "flopping" every time they are asked to move or deplane. Thousands more will be inconvenienced when flights are cancelled rather than airlines risk a similar PR nightmare.

Again, the solution here should have been deplaning the entire flight once a belligerent and non-compliant passenger was identified.

 

[Divine Wind]

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines
RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.

--------------------
RULE 24 FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS/AIRCRAFT CHANGES

1. 
   
   
   • General
     1. S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flights originate in the U.S.A., the provisions of this Rule apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight that incurs a Schedule Change, Force Majeure Event or Irregular Operations.
     2. Non-U.S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flight originates outside the U.S.A., the following provisions apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight:
        1. If local or international laws regulate a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will not be applied.
        2. If no local law otherwise regulates a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will be applied.

-----------------------
Definitions - For the purpose of this Rule, the following terms have the meanings below:

1. 
   
   
   • Schedule Change – an advance change in UA’s schedule (including a change in operating carrier or itinerary) that is not a unique event such as Irregular Operations or Force Majeure Event as defined below.
   • Connecting Point – a point to which a Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of one carrier and out of which the Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of the same or another carrier. All airports through which a city is served by any carrier will be deemed to be a single Connecting Point when the receiving carrier has confirmed reservations to the Delivering Carrier.
   • Delivering Carrier – a carrier on whose flight a Passenger holds or held confirmed space to a Connecting Point.
   • Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
     1. Any condition beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, meteorological or geological conditions, acts of God, riots, terrorist activities, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, disturbances, or unsettled international conditions, either actual, anticipated, threatened or reported, or any delay, demand, circumstances, or requirement due directly or indirectly to such condition;
     2. Any strike, work stoppage, slowdown, lockout, or any other labor-related dispute involving or affecting UA’s services;
     3. Any governmental regulation, demand or requirement;
     4. Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
     5. Damage to UA’s Aircraft or equipment caused by another party;
     6. Any emergency situation requiring immediate care or protection for a person or property; or
     7. Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.

Great, none of those apply to Dao. Thanks for playing.

Indirectly, they do. You said Force Majeure doesn't apply here. I just proved to you it does. When it did, the airline was right to deplane an appropriate number of passengers to fix the problem. Dao was one of them. Dao's problems came up when he thought he as sitting at Burger King instead of an airliner covered by multiple Federal and State laws.

 

[Divine Wind]

Dao will have the sympathy of any court because he was in the right...

Disagreed, but time will tell. In the end, I suspect United will throw some money at him to shut him up and put this behind them and Dao will take plea deals from both the Feds and the State to avoid jail time.

In Basketball, It's Called "Flopping"

If United pays off this nasty pervert, others will try the same scam.

Good luck with that one

Hard to fake a concussion, broken nose and two missing teeth

Didn't you also complain about police brutality in using a robot bomb to kill Micah Johnson?

 

[MikeK]

In Basketball, It's Called "Flopping"

But this isn't basketball. It's an example of inexcusable brutality prompted by extremely questionable circumstances.

If United pays off this nasty pervert, others will try the same scam.

What "scam" are you talking about? United's profit-based over-booking maneuver that led to the brutal beating and humiliation of an ordinary citizen whose only offense was refusing to be oppressed by a major corporation?

 

[MikeK]

Fucking Liberals always hate the police.

And you just love cops, don't you?

 

[MikeK]

Or is this more in keeping with your preference?