Incompetent United Air Lines Physically Drags Passenger Off Plane For Their (Airline) Mistake

[Divine Wind]

...
You mock him as faking injury as he was dragged off a plane. I saw someone either knocked out or severely dazed. Someone resisting removal would have been struggling and hooking his legs onto seats as he was dragged
You mock his actions when he came back on the plane bleeding and mumbling....I have to get home. I saw someone who looks dazed and like he had recently regained consciousness

Just one of the reasons to deplane all the witnesses passengers first.

Dao broke multiple laws. One was running back onto the plane.

 

[Divine Wind]

58 yo. So your "wisdom" means nothing to me except that you might need to get checked out yourself. I've flown to other countries, states, etc. It must take you ten minutes because they let the old people get on and deplane first. Nice try gramps.

I'm talking about a 70 seat aircraft like United Express 3411, not an Emirates A380 with 500+ seats.

Insult away, I can take it.

NOPE! Don't argue with old people or teenagers. You can hang onto your dignity.

OMG...I just watched him being drug off of plane and he is worse than reported before. He is screaming and screaming, goes limp when he realizes his is getting off....and it was his fault that he hit his head!!!! Those of you that don't see that, get your eyes and your head checked. That was bat shit crazy going down that aisle.

That will come out in the trial. Dao's behavior reflects poorly on him as a doctor. I wouldn't want him to be treating me.

Doubtful there will be a trial.

I agree. UAL will throw some money at Dao to avoid more bad PR and Dao will take a plea deal on the Federal and State charges.

In the end, most people will forget this incident but Dao's shattered reputation as a doctor will take another beating.

 

[danielpalos]

There should be no limits on compensation. They overbook for the bottom line.

The flight wasn't overbooked. The four passengers needed to be deplaned when, apparently, a flight crew needed to be moved to SDF. It's simple math: Better to inconvenience 4 passengers rather than inconveniencing up to 75 passengers the next morning.

A Cessna couldn't have done the job? Paying customers are, always right.

 

[Faun]

I'm talking about a 70 seat aircraft like United Express 3411, not an Emirates A380 with 500+ seats.

Insult away, I can take it.

NOPE! Don't argue with old people or teenagers. You can hang onto your dignity.

OMG...I just watched him being drug off of plane and he is worse than reported before. He is screaming and screaming, goes limp when he realizes his is getting off....and it was his fault that he hit his head!!!! Those of you that don't see that, get your eyes and your head checked. That was bat shit crazy going down that aisle.

That will come out in the trial. Dao's behavior reflects poorly on him as a doctor. I wouldn't want him to be treating me.

Doubtful there will be a trial.

I agree. UAL will throw some money at Dao to avoid more bad PR and Dao will take a plea deal on the Federal and State charges.

In the end, most people will forget this incident but Dao's shattered reputation as a doctor will take another beating.

LOL

Doubtful Dao will be charged.

 

[Divine Wind]

There should be no limits on compensation. They overbook for the bottom line.

The flight wasn't overbooked. The four passengers needed to be deplaned when, apparently, a flight crew needed to be moved to SDF. It's simple math: Better to inconvenience 4 passengers rather than inconveniencing up to 75 passengers the next morning.

A Cessna couldn't have done the job? Paying customers are, always right.

No. There were probably crew rest factors involved.

Says who? Since when are lawbreakers "always right"?

 

[Divine Wind]

NOPE! Don't argue with old people or teenagers. You can hang onto your dignity.

OMG...I just watched him being drug off of plane and he is worse than reported before. He is screaming and screaming, goes limp when he realizes his is getting off....and it was his fault that he hit his head!!!! Those of you that don't see that, get your eyes and your head checked. That was bat shit crazy going down that aisle.

That will come out in the trial. Dao's behavior reflects poorly on him as a doctor. I wouldn't want him to be treating me.

Doubtful there will be a trial.

I agree. UAL will throw some money at Dao to avoid more bad PR and Dao will take a plea deal on the Federal and State charges.

In the end, most people will forget this incident but Dao's shattered reputation as a doctor will take another beating.

LOL

Doubtful Dao will be charged.

We shall see.

 

[danielpalos]

Possibly. What I do know is that there is too much money involved in bumping for it to go away.

There are a lot of rules regarding overbooking. The bad PR is enough for airlines to avoid it. In this case, it wasn't an overbooking issue; it was a last minute addition of crewmembers to salvage a morning flight that precipitated the problem.

You're arguing semantics. It doesn't matter when the overbooking occurred and by what circumstance it occurred. When you have more bodies than seats, you're overbooked.

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

 

[Divine Wind]

There are a lot of rules regarding overbooking. The bad PR is enough for airlines to avoid it. In this case, it wasn't an overbooking issue; it was a last minute addition of crewmembers to salvage a morning flight that precipitated the problem.

You're arguing semantics. It doesn't matter when the overbooking occurred and by what circumstance it occurred. When you have more bodies than seats, you're overbooked.

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Contract of Carriage Document | United Airlines
RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.

--------------------
RULE 24 FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS/AIRCRAFT CHANGES

1. General
   1. S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flights originate in the U.S.A., the provisions of this Rule apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight that incurs a Schedule Change, Force Majeure Event or Irregular Operations.
   2. Non-U.S.A. Origin Flights - Where the UA flight originates outside the U.S.A., the following provisions apply to a Passenger who has a Ticket and a confirmed reservation on a flight:
      1. If local or international laws regulate a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will not be applied.
      2. If no local law otherwise regulates a Schedule Change, Force Majeure or Irregular Operations, then the procedures in Rule 24 will be applied.

-----------------------
Definitions - For the purpose of this Rule, the following terms have the meanings below:

1. Schedule Change – an advance change in UA’s schedule (including a change in operating carrier or itinerary) that is not a unique event such as Irregular Operations or Force Majeure Event as defined below.
2. Connecting Point – a point to which a Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of one carrier and out of which the Passenger holds or held confirmed space on a flight of the same or another carrier. All airports through which a city is served by any carrier will be deemed to be a single Connecting Point when the receiving carrier has confirmed reservations to the Delivering Carrier.
3. Delivering Carrier – a carrier on whose flight a Passenger holds or held confirmed space to a Connecting Point.
4. Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
   1. Any condition beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, meteorological or geological conditions, acts of God, riots, terrorist activities, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, disturbances, or unsettled international conditions, either actual, anticipated, threatened or reported, or any delay, demand, circumstances, or requirement due directly or indirectly to such condition;
   2. Any strike, work stoppage, slowdown, lockout, or any other labor-related dispute involving or affecting UA’s services;
   3. Any governmental regulation, demand or requirement;
   4. Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
   5. Damage to UA’s Aircraft or equipment caused by another party;
   6. Any emergency situation requiring immediate care or protection for a person or property; or
   7. Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.

 

[danielpalos]

You're arguing semantics. It doesn't matter when the overbooking occurred and by what circumstance it occurred. When you have more bodies than seats, you're overbooked.

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

 

[Divine Wind]

On the contrary, sir, you are the one playing semantics. The plane was booked even. People were loaded up and ready to go but then a situation arose where the airline had to choose between cancelling an entire flight in the morning at SDF or inconveniencing 4 passengers in ORD.

Which would you have done given those choices?

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

Agreed. What does that have to do with this situation? It wasn't scheduled nor a regular issue. It was mishandled by the police, but United/Republic Airlines was doing their best to make a bad situation better, not worse.

 

[danielpalos]

Why couldn't they have made other arrangements. Why is this the passengers' problem?

Force Majeure.

What other arrangements? It was an E170 with 71 passengers paying about $220 for their ORD-SDF ticket. Total gross revenue ~$15,620. Losing the morning flight would have cost them about the same plus misconnections.

If it was my call, I'd have depland everyone first, then reboarded minus 4 passengers. If that didn't work, then cancel the flight, refund the $15K+ and ferry the aircraft to SDF with the second crew onboard.

Force majeure belongs to Government, not the private sector. Capital is what the private sector should always be about; especially in public accommodations.

Awesome that you actually believe this. Fine, let's see how it plays out between the lawyers.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

Agreed. What does that have to do with this situation? It wasn't scheduled nor a regular issue. It was mishandled by the police, but United/Republic Airlines was doing their best to make a bad situation better, not worse.

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

 

[Divine Wind]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

 

[danielpalos]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

 

[rightwinger]

Ok...allow me to finish a comment before you bump me to posted because I got an alert.

This man acted like a complete fool. My dad was a doctor and there is no way he would have acted in this manner. He was a professional. This man was screaming "I have patients to see". When in fact, his license to practice was revoked after he and another man were arrested in 2003 and charged for selling illegal narcotics to people, and he traded pills for homosexual favors. His wife is a pediatrician.

In 2016 a court allowed a small portion of his drs. rights back. He can work ONE DAY A WEEK in an outpatient clinic, no access to any drugs. He misrepresented his "practice", I watched the video...I could not believe he screamed like a woman, then went limp so the officers had to drag him. I watched him...played the victim.

Then he runs back onto the plane, clutching something to is chest saying "I want to go home" I bet he did. His ridiculous display has now renewed the gossip in Louisville, KY of his 2003 bust and all the dirty secrets. He just regained the work one day a week in 2016.

What this man did is against the law. Post 9/11...you act like that, cause a scene, you are arrested. I would have left the plane and told the airline to put me in a room, buy my meal and put me in first class for the next day, rather than fly with that nut job.

Everything points to the obvious. This man is disturbed and needs professional help. But...now he has a ton of ambulance chasers and the one who defended him in 2003 for his drug trafficking.

Something is wrong with him. He needs inpatient help for something that would make a 69 yo man act that way. Where was the air marshal????? Post 9/11 totally changed the laws, rules and regulations on flying. The man should have been arrested. His bloody mouth is his own fault. He was putting on an act by going limp and letting his head roll back and forth.

Totally irrelevant rightwing propaganda. Immediately blame the victim when you do wrong

If your dad was a doctor, how would he have reacted if an airline was telling him he had to give up his seat knowing it would impact the care of his patients? Would he have just meekly walked off the plane for $800 or would he fight for his patients?

How would you feel if your dad had been beaten up for resisting an order that would impact the care of his patients?

REALLY???? WHAT WOULD MY DAD HAVE DONE????
He would have deplaned, talked to the people to see why he was being bumped, then he would have called his nurse, receptionist and hospital to ask someone to do his rounds because he was stuck in Chicago.

You know...what a real, professional person would act....you would think.
Don't drag my dad into this. He didn't traffic drugs, exchange homosexual sex as payment for pills.

Your moral compass is totally off.

Interesting response

I would have thought doctors had more professional respect for their responsibilities to their patients. I guess $800 means more to some than others. I am no doctor but as a professional, I would have screamed my head off if United bumped me and caused me to miss important meetings just because they couldn't manage their flight crews
You brought your dad into this because you thought it gave you special insight

 

[Divine Wind]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

Translation: You are correct, DW, there is no law saying the customer is always right. It's just good business practice.

Agreed.

 

[rightwinger]

Once they had boarded a plane and United employees showed up demanding seats they had two options

1. Ask for volunteers to give up their seat. Offer increasing compensation until someone accepts
2. In the absence of volunteers, find alternative travel plans for your employees

They didn't show up "demanding seats", they were ordered there by Republic Airlines scheduling.

1. They did. IIRC, the limit is up to 400% of the ticket price. Ticket price average on that flight is about $220. I'm curious what Dao paid for his.

2. It's a business. Why pay $100,000 for a Nancy Pelosi 757 when cancelling the flight, refunding $16K in fares and simply ferrying the aircraft with the spare crew is cheaper?

Yes, they "demanded seats"
They did not show up and ask if they could be accommodated if seats were available. They demanded that people be bumped to accommodate their needs

The limit is the minimum they can be required, by law to offer. United can offer anything they want. What Dao paid for his seat is irrelevant. He offered to pay a certain fare for a seat and United accepted that offer

You are correct....United is a business
As a business, they put their profit above the needs of their passengers. They learned an important lesson as their CEO was forced to repeatedly grovel in his apologies

 

[danielpalos]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

Capitalism relies on voluntary social transactions that result in mutually beneficial trade. Socialsm may rely on the, "coercive use of force". It is no wonder, that Power is given to the Public sector for Public accountability.

Translation: You are correct, DW, there is no law saying the customer is always right. It's just good business practice.

Agreed.

There should be no recourse, to Force Majeure for the private sector, but for actual emergencies.

Capital should work fine in the private sector in public accommodation.

There should be no limits on compensation due to airlines routinely overbooking, simply for the bottom line.

 

[rightwinger]

Ok...allow me to finish a comment before you bump me to posted because I got an alert.

This man acted like a complete fool. My dad was a doctor and there is no way he would have acted in this manner. He was a professional. This man was screaming "I have patients to see". When in fact, his license to practice was revoked after he and another man were arrested in 2003 and charged for selling illegal narcotics to people, and he traded pills for homosexual favors. His wife is a pediatrician.

In 2016 a court allowed a small portion of his drs. rights back. He can work ONE DAY A WEEK in an outpatient clinic, no access to any drugs. He misrepresented his "practice", I watched the video...I could not believe he screamed like a woman, then went limp so the officers had to drag him. I watched him...played the victim.

Then he runs back onto the plane, clutching something to is chest saying "I want to go home" I bet he did. His ridiculous display has now renewed the gossip in Louisville, KY of his 2003 bust and all the dirty secrets. He just regained the work one day a week in 2016.

What this man did is against the law. Post 9/11...you act like that, cause a scene, you are arrested. I would have left the plane and told the airline to put me in a room, buy my meal and put me in first class for the next day, rather than fly with that nut job.

Everything points to the obvious. This man is disturbed and needs professional help. But...now he has a ton of ambulance chasers and the one who defended him in 2003 for his drug trafficking.

Something is wrong with him. He needs inpatient help for something that would make a 69 yo man act that way. Where was the air marshal????? Post 9/11 totally changed the laws, rules and regulations on flying. The man should have been arrested. His bloody mouth is his own fault. He was putting on an act by going limp and letting his head roll back and forth.

Agreed. All of this should come out in the lawsuit. Including whether or not his actual 1-day of doctoring was the next day.

No air marshal on most domestic flights. Sequestration forces cut backs.

Still, I believe the police officer mishandled the situation. I also believe Dao will be facing both Federal and State charges for his breaking of multiple laws.

There is no "right to fly". All passengers agree to a "contract of carriage" agreement when they buy a ticket. Dao violated that agreement. Now, while UAL wants this incident to go away and may even offer free flights to Dao, I suspect all other airlines will add him to their no-fly list. Like you previously mentioned, I certainly don't want to be trapped in an aluminum tube at 37,000' with an unstable nutjob.

OK...you go out tonight, do something that the police have to be called on, like make a scene in a gas station. Police are called. You are taken in custody for disorderly conduct, then I want you to resist the officers. You will be taken down to the ground, a knee put in your back, possibly tazed if you don't stop resisting. It is against the law to resist police officers and post 9/11 airline laws, rules and regulations demand the person be taken off the plane and arrested. I don't care that they made the decision to take his seat. That's life. The way he acted was a disgrace. That woman scream, tantrum, running back on the plane....he wasn't hurt enough to go to a hospital. That was an attorney's strategy.

I find your take on the situation to be curious as you mock a paying customer for screaming

I have known several police officers and they have shown me some of their "persuasive" techniques to get you to comply with a request. Yes, those techniques could make you scream in pain
Those screams did not sound to me like those of a petulant child, but someone in pain
You mock him as faking injury as he was dragged off a plane. I saw someone either knocked out or severely dazed. Someone resisting removal would have been struggling and hooking his legs onto seats as he was dragged
You mock his actions when he came back on the plane bleeding and mumbling....I have to get home. I saw someone who looks dazed and like he had recently regained consciousness

You are a petulant child. And so gullible that it is actually funny. Keep it up, helps cull the herd.

You seem to be the gullible one as you parrot the rightwing/Foxnews spin on the incident

The doctors rights do not matter because he lost his license eleven years ago. Be sure to mention he is a "homosexual" (code for he deserves whatever happens to him). Mock him for screaming in pain...real men know how to take it. Accuse him of faking injury. Question whether he really had an appointment

 

[rightwinger]

The (paying) customer is always right (except in case of actual emergency). There was no actual emergency.

Says who? Where is this written into Federal law?

On the contrary, Dao broke several Federal laws by his behavior....and a few State laws too.

Haven't seen him arrested for breaking any laws......seems to be your interpretation

Looks like you owe me $25 million you Deadbeat

 

[rightwinger]

There should be no limits on compensation. They overbook for the bottom line.

The flight wasn't overbooked. The four passengers needed to be deplaned when, apparently, a flight crew needed to be moved to SDF. It's simple math: Better to inconvenience 4 passengers rather than inconveniencing up to 75 passengers the next morning.

A Cessna couldn't have done the job? Paying customers are, always right.

United's original response was...We followed the rules and the guy did not accept our request...even though we asked real nice

As of yesterday, their CEO is groveling, throwing money around and claiming the customer is always right