Intelligent, Respectful Political Discourse, RIP

[JoeB131]

You're right. It's everyone else's fault. Glad I helped.

Hey, Give Mac some credit. He's managed to get Conservatives and Liberals to agree he's a pompous ass.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The violence in America right now in many major cities is overwhelmingly coming from the far left. That is not even a debatable point. But idiot Dims in the media and Congress say don't believe your eyes, believe us.

Nobody is buying that shit. 76% of Americans are saying the violent protest are out of hand. The 24% not admitting it are liars or anarchists.

So why have you guys changed the subject from a decay in our political discourse, which has been a decades-long process, to the violence we have been seeing over the last few weeks?

Okay, I'm just kidding, I know why. It's because you guys have no idea how to have a rational, honest, intelligent conversation about complicated issues.

Mac & Cheese saying people aren't nice enough in their political discourse. Pot meet kettle. Read your last sentence. Is that what you're talking about?

The massive hypocrisy is duly noted.

Indeed. That sentence is as vile, hateful, ugly and vulgar as anything you'll see here.

I'm pleased that you feel you have to stretch that far to make a "point".

Be what you are. I'm certainly not trying to change people like you.

I am intellectually honest. I have no problem conceding a valid point. You were the same imho. I enjoyed having discussions with you.

That is gone in my opinion. Many in this thread have told you the same. They were not being unkind to you. I am not being unkind to you. It is an honest opinion given to you by people who held you in some regard.

When you are told this your general response is condescending or very snarky or flatly dismissive. You don't have to agree with anyone, but your discourse has changed. If you want more civil discourse maybe you can start with that like you use to do. You might be surprised how people responded back.

Sure, back when Obama was in office and you agreed with my criticisms, all was well and Mac was reasonable. The Regressive Lefties concluded I was a fraud and actually a hardcore right winger. Now Trump is in office and I have different criticisms, so suddenly everything about me changes. I'm a big ol' commie Hitler Nazi Marxist now.

Meanwhile, none of my positions on the issues have changed.

You guys somehow don't see how obvious, and comical, this is.

You're right. It's everyone else's fault. Glad I helped.

HEY!!!

No mocking that dunce.....that's my job!!!!

 

[Mac1958]

The violence in America right now in many major cities is overwhelmingly coming from the far left. That is not even a debatable point. But idiot Dims in the media and Congress say don't believe your eyes, believe us.

Nobody is buying that shit. 76% of Americans are saying the violent protest are out of hand. The 24% not admitting it are liars or anarchists.

So why have you guys changed the subject from a decay in our political discourse, which has been a decades-long process, to the violence we have been seeing over the last few weeks?

Okay, I'm just kidding, I know why. It's because you guys have no idea how to have a rational, honest, intelligent conversation about complicated issues.

Mac & Cheese saying people aren't nice enough in their political discourse. Pot meet kettle. Read your last sentence. Is that what you're talking about?

The massive hypocrisy is duly noted.

Indeed. That sentence is as vile, hateful, ugly and vulgar as anything you'll see here.

I'm pleased that you feel you have to stretch that far to make a "point".

Be what you are. I'm certainly not trying to change people like you.

I am intellectually honest. I have no problem conceding a valid point. You were the same imho. I enjoyed having discussions with you.

That is gone in my opinion. Many in this thread have told you the same. They were not being unkind to you. I am not being unkind to you. It is an honest opinion given to you by people who held you in some regard.

When you are told this your general response is condescending or very snarky or flatly dismissive. You don't have to agree with anyone, but your discourse has changed. If you want more civil discourse maybe you can start with that like you use to do. You might be surprised how people responded back.

Sure, back when Obama was in office and you agreed with my criticisms, all was well and Mac was reasonable. The Regressive Lefties concluded I was a fraud and actually a hardcore right winger. Now Trump is in office and I have different criticisms, so suddenly everything about me changes. I'm a big ol' commie Hitler Nazi Marxist now.

Meanwhile, none of my positions on the issues have changed.

You guys somehow don't see how obvious, and comical, this is.

You're right. It's everyone else's fault. Glad I helped.

Just the nutters.

The rest of America - the majority - are decent people.

 

[JoeB131]

Just the nutters.

The rest of America - the majority - are decent people.

Ah, the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

There used to be a fellow around here called Mac1958 who showed promise by way of understanding this, but then he caught the TDS virus and turned all woke. I miss the days when this fellow talked about the way the left assigns various identities to classes of either oppressor or oppressed and then reacted to these assumptions accordingly. Nowadays, he is one of the chief practitioners of this very process.

I've tried to impress that very same thing on him many times... he's denied it.

I have as well. Mac and I had many discussions, most worthwhile and useful. That person is gone. He denies it, but TDS has erased all rationality. Now he is one of the worst marginalized hacks on the board.

And Mac, I breathlessly await your thanks or funny to this post.

No shit...He piously decries "wingers" while having thrown in with the very worst of them.

Once again giving evidence to my oft made observation that self-awareness is completely absent from the left.

If only you understood irony. You rat people became exactly like the 'leftists'. Completely lacking self awareness. Too afraid to call out those of your own tribe. Exactly the same. Different sides of the same shit pile.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Meanwhile, none of my positions on the issues have changed.

You guys somehow don't see how obvious, and comical, this is.

Not true. Earlier in this thread I posted your exact words -- the sort of words that are now eliciting accusations from you that a person is a "Trumpster"

You establish such a false dichotomy when you assign this derogatory term to the rejection of BLM or ANTIFA.

At some point, a person needs to question whether you are wanting to discuss issues or simply posit yourself as somehow superior. There are some very intelligent people posting on this thread capable of articulating their thoughts with a good deal of skill, yet all you do is treat them as if members of a group rather than as individuals. Quite frankly, this says more about your own lack of intellectual clarity than it does theirs as you are the one who is actually dealing in binary rather than them.

 

[Mac1958]

Meanwhile, none of my positions on the issues have changed.

You guys somehow don't see how obvious, and comical, this is.

Not true. Earlier in this thread I posted your exact words -- the sort of words that are now eliciting accusations from you that a person is a "Trumpster"

You establish such a false dichotomy when you assign this derogatory term to the rejection of BLM or ANTIFA.

At some point, a person needs to question whether you are wanting to discuss issues or simply posit yourself as somehow superior. There are some very intelligent people posting on this thread capable of articulating their thoughts with a good deal of skill, yet all you do is treat them as if members of a group rather than as individuals. Quite frankly, this says more about your own lack of intellectual clarity than it does theirs as you are the one who is actually dealing in binary rather than them.

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. The enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

 

[Mac1958]

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. Watching the enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

Super!

 

[PoliticalChic]

There used to be a fellow around here called Mac1958 who showed promise by way of understanding this, but then he caught the TDS virus and turned all woke. I miss the days when this fellow talked about the way the left assigns various identities to classes of either oppressor or oppressed and then reacted to these assumptions accordingly. Nowadays, he is one of the chief practitioners of this very process.

I've tried to impress that very same thing on him many times... he's denied it.

I have as well. Mac and I had many discussions, most worthwhile and useful. That person is gone. He denies it, but TDS has erased all rationality. Now he is one of the worst marginalized hacks on the board.

And Mac, I breathlessly await your thanks or funny to this post.

No shit...He piously decries "wingers" while having thrown in with the very worst of them.

Once again giving evidence to my oft made observation that self-awareness is completely absent from the left.

If only you understood irony. You rat people became exactly like the 'leftists'. Completely lacking self awareness. Too afraid to call out those of your own tribe. Exactly the same. Different sides of the same shit pile.

Speaking of lack of self-awareness....

• #1

I won't make any comments about John Lewis at this time of his passing, but aside from Hussein Obama turning it into a political rally, did you hear the remarks of life-long Democrat, the Reverend James Lawson at the Lewis funeral????


1. "Let all of us in this service today, let all the people of the USA determine that we will not be quiet as long as any child dies in the first year of life in the United States."
Rev. James Lawson: John Lewis’s Life Is Call to Action Against U.S. Violence & Plantation Capitalism

Wait......he speaks for the infanticide party?????
The party of Planned Slaughterhood, killing 40% of the black babies??????
The Democrats.....the party of 60 million abortions.
Men of the cloth, representing the black community......what irony.


2. "We will not be quiet as long as the largest poverty group in our nation are women and children. "
OMG!!!! Speaking FOR the Democrat Party.
1966 LBJ expanded the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program…under FDR, AFDC had been limited to widows, those who had lost their husbands and now lacked a breadwinner at home to help support the children.

Then began to loosen and expand the rules of AFDC eligibility, eventually getting to the point where any woman living alone with children could take advantage of this program. In doing so, they not only bought a large number of new votes, they also incentivized out of wedlock births and single motherhood.

As Charles Murray described in “Losing Ground,” the Great Society incentivized the same negative behaviors that cause poverty in the first place.

Millions of women discovered that they could be better off financially by not marrying.


3. "We will not be quiet as long as our nation continues to be the most violent culture in the history of humankind. "
Jaw dropping........Democrats made special rules to aid criminals!!!
Carter-appointed judge Norma Shapiro “ is one of the worst offenders among that influential cadre of federal judges who have substituted the ACLU's prisoners' rights wish list for the Bill of Rights and have trifled with public safety concerns. …single-handedly decriminalized property and drug crimes in the City of Brotherly Love….And in the past 18 months alone, 9,732 arrestees, out on the streets on pre-trial release because of her prison cap, were arrested on second charges, including 79 murders, 90 rapes, 701 burglaries, 959 robberies, 1,113 assaults, 2,215 drug offenses and 2,748 thefts….Activist judges such as Shapiro and Justice assert that prison crowding violates the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishments. But there is no empirical evidence to substantiate this assertion. In every study of the subject, the widely believed negative effects of crowding - violence, program disruption, health problems and so on - are nowhere in evidence.” Archives | The Philadelphia Inquirer

1. In 1992, black youths were nine times more likely to be murdered than white youths. Liberals lied, black kids died.

4. "We will not be quiet as long as our economy is shaped not by freedom but by plantation capitalism that continues to cause domination and control rather than access and liberty and equality for all! "
I guess the Reverend doesn't read.......

But....if they read books, they wouldn't be Democrats.


5. "The forces of spiritual wickedness are strong in our land because of our history. "
Nah.....because of Hollywood Democrats.....here, giving a standing ovation to a child rapist:
Meryl Streep standing ovation for convicted pedosexual, Roman Polanski





Let's review the rules for Democrats:

Rule #1
Every argument from Democrats and Liberals is a misrepresentation, a fabrication, or a bald-faced lie.

Rule #2
To know what the Left is guilty of, just watch what they blame the other side of doing.

2a. If not for double standards Liberals would have no standards at all.

 

[WelfareQueen]

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. The enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

An utterly lost cause. Sad. I am also labelled a Trumpster yet my opinion of Trump has never been solicited. Tell me again who is dogmatic?

Trump is coarse, he is not a personally moral man, and he can be abrasive. I contrast him with Hillary Clinton and the choice was easy in my mind. Ditto Joe Biden who has been in public office for almost 50 years and has never done anything of note other than get elected. He has been wrong in virtually every major policy decision of his career, from Iraq to his push for mass incarceration. He is an empty suit imho.

So in that regard I must be a Trumpster and therefore not worthy of civil discourse. . And yes, I will say again the irony is massive.

 

[Mac1958]

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. The enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

An utterly lost cause. Sad. I am also labelled a Trumpster yet my opinion of Trump has never been solicited. Tell me again who is dogmatic?

Trump is coarse, he is not a personally moral man, and he can be abrasive. I contrast him with Hillary Clinton and the choice was easy in my mind. Ditto Joe Biden who has been in public office for almost 50 years and has never done anything of note other than get elected. He has been wrong in virtually every major policy decision of his career, from Iraq to his push for mass incarceration. He is an empty suit imho.

So in that regard I must be a Trumpster and therefore not worthy of civil discourse. . And yes, I will say again the irony is massive.

I'm glad you two Trumpsters have this all nailed down!

 

[Dogmaphobe]

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. The enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

An utterly lost cause. Sad. I am also labelled a Trumpster yet my opinion of Trump has never been solicited. Tell me again who is dogmatic?

Trump is coarse, he is not a personally moral man, and he can be abrasive. I contrast him with Hillary Clinton and the choice was easy in my mind. Ditto Joe Biden who has been in public office for almost 50 years and has never done anything of note other than get elected. He has been wrong in virtually every major policy decision of his career, from Iraq to his push for mass incarceration. He is an empty suit imho.

So in that regard I must be a Trumpster and therefore not worthy of civil discourse. . And yes, I will say again the irony is massive.

None of my positions have changed. I'm simply done burning time on asymmetrical conversations. They're boring.

And I have to say, you think a lot more about me than I do about you. So, thanks, I guess.

However, I have noticed that you've made a mockery of your screen name since Trump was elected.

I do not indulge in 24/7 anti-Trump hysteria, true.

If you lack the wherewithal to figure out that this displays a lack of dogmatism rather than a surfeit thereof, that speaks more of you than it does me.

My position has remained the same since he was elected. I do not like Trump, but I find the knee jerk reaction AGAINST Trump to be more of a problem than Trump, himself. The enormous apparatus of our media and the Democratic party apply itself with the singular purpose of deposing the man is a far greater threat to our principles than the man, himself.

An utterly lost cause. Sad. I am also labelled a Trumpster yet my opinion of Trump has never been solicited. Tell me again who is dogmatic?

Trump is coarse, he is not a personally moral man, and he can be abrasive. I contrast him with Hillary Clinton and the choice was easy in my mind. Ditto Joe Biden who has been in public office for almost 50 years and has never done anything of note other than get elected. He has been wrong in virtually every major policy decision of his career, from Iraq to his push for mass incarceration. He is an empty suit imho.

So in that regard I must be a Trumpster and therefore not worthy of civil discourse. . And yes, I will say again the irony is massive.

the sheer level of dismissiveness when he is incapable of addressing a valid point in undermines any claim about seeking civility.

There is a general conceit inherent in much of the left that manifests itself by trying to craft anybody of differing opinions as if they are some sort of Billy Bob. the constant referral to "Trumpsters" is such an attempt. These charges continue despite the obvious level of knowledge, intelligence, education or debating skills of the being dismissed.

 

[Mac1958]

 

[kaz]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

It ended when you idiot Democrats decided to start calling everyone you disagreed with racists and misogynists. That was meant to end discussion. Since then you only are about intimidation to get your way

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It's down right anusing how Mac

Are you actually thinking that your continuous mocking of other posters is convincing anybody that you seek respectful debate?

 

[Mac1958]

Yikes, stumbled on to this discussion between two guys from opposite ends of the political spectrum, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky.

Intelligent, respectful, stimulating, thoughtful disagreement.

So what happened to us? Aside from, "it's all the other tribe's fault"?

It ended when you idiot Democrats decided to start calling everyone you disagreed with racists and misogynists. That was meant to end discussion. Since then you only are about intimidation to get your way

Funny, I pointed that out about Regressive Lefties about a zillion times.

But once Trump was elected, all of those posts must have just flown away.

 

[Mac1958]

It's down right anusing how Mac

Are you actually thinking that your continuous mocking of other posters is convincing anybody that you seek respectful debate?

I don't expect respectful or honest or reasonable debate here any more. Those days are over.

It's much easier and far more interesting in real life, where it matters, and that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Shelzin]

FOX is allowed to be the pressure release for Non Progs by the globalists. Most other modern TV production is Prog agenda motivated.

I disagree... All I want is the facts. Don't try to do a damn thing with them. Don't leave them out on purpose, don't add what you can't prove. Every station should be TRYING to do this, and they *still* won't come to the same conclusions. But at least then they are trying to be journalists, and a conversation can actually happen.

Prime example:

 

[Shelzin]

I don't expect respectful or honest or reasonable debate here any more. Those days are over.

It's much easier and far more interesting in real life, where it matters, and that's what I'm talking about.

You do seem a bit "burned out" from what I remember... What... Six, seven years ago? I mean holy hell, you were really good back then. I actually remembered who you were. And to be honest... You are one of only two that I can remember that are still here and posts. You had a positive impact on me.

I don't blame you for that ( being a bit burned out ) ***if that is the case***... Years of this will take a toll on anyone. I'm not really trying to say anything here, just an observation.