Irony re: marijuana

[Mr. Shaman]

Then why not cocaine?? Why not meth?? Why not heroin???

You open up the floodgates, and precedent lets it all in...

Unless you ARE for drawing a line.. and for most people, that line is with the drugs we have as illegal

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....I thought that constituted a Nanny State????????

​

Nanny state is control over even the smallest of things, such as FOOD... taking personal responsibilities and putting that burden on the government instead of the individual...

Being against the nanny states does not mean a want to get rid of all law and go to anarchy...

With harmful things such as drugs, a line MUST be drawn...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....a conditional Nanny State....via "conservative"-conditions.

Gee......how convenient for your agenda!!

No thanks.​

 

[Rocko]

We need less waste in our legal system. Policing a non-fatal drug like pot is waste that we need to cut out.

The billions we pour into policing it can be used to build schools and roads.

Cocaine, meth, heroin... Those are dangerous drugs that are easily fatal. It's worth the cost of policing.

But pot.. No.

Yeah it's costs money to criminalize pot, but I think we're better off paying that price as opposed to not paying it and having more druggies.

See, now we have an argument. Thanks.

I can see the point with cocaine and other deadly drugs. Drugs that kill people and basically make them worthless (ie meth).

But pot? Its non lethal, non addictive, people generally can still function just fine (a lot of very successful people smoke), and too a bunch of people are gonna smoke it regardless of the law (ie how many incremental smokers will you get anyway?).

Too, is policing a non lethal drug really worth billions of taxpayer dollars, all the cartel deaths, all of the lives ruined by prison, all of the resources drained in our courts and police offices (maybe they could spend that time tracking down more pedophiles or murderers)?

If prohibiting something results in tens of thousands of drug trade deaths every year, you better have a pretty darn good reason for prohibiting it. Are we saving tens of thousands of lives every year by making it illegal? Given that no one in history has ever overdosed on pot, id say no.

Are all those costs really worth it? I'm giving tangible consequences, do you have an equivalent tangible benefits?

Let me reiterate, the cost associated with criminalizing pot is well worth it, and people who go to prison because they're involved with pot have no one to blame but themselves. I disagree with you that people can function just fine on pot and it's a gateway drug to worse drugs. The less people on pot in this country the better.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Policing and prosecuting ANY crime or illegal THING costs much money... drains resources.. imprisons millions.. gives power to criminals.. gives money to those dealing in the illegal...

It's that simple

It is illegal now, with the beneficial effects LEGALIZED as stated (Marinol)... it is YOUR case to make, which you have not

Yes, I realize policing things cost money (you're missing the point!). We as a society decide that it's worth investing the dollars in stopping things that are truly dangerous.

Example: it's worth spending billions of dollars policing murders and locking murderers up because... if murder was legal it would pose a huge threat to our quality of life.

However, given that pot is non-lethal, makes people calm, and pretty much poses zero threat to our overall quality of life, it's NOT worth policing. I'm not getting ANY BENEFIT for the billions of dollars we're pouring into the cause.

You need to provide us with justification for spending all of those dollars, and allowing tthe drug cartels to maintain a consistent revenue stream.

No.. it is EXACTLY the point.. you only want it legalized for the sake of the high.. which is no reason to make it legal...

So.....don't participate, and allow others the same consideration.​

 

[Borillar]

Do you really think it is not harmful at all? Really?

Personally? Yeah, I think it's harmless. But even if it was at all harmful, the penalties far outweigh the perceived harm, IMHO.

OK, that pretty much rules out any opinion you might have as the bad effects of MJ are well documented.

What documentation? Reefer Madness?

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Dope smokers are amusing morons. If you want to smoke that shit, knock yourselves out. Stupidity has its own built-in retribution. No one should go to jail for smoking dope.

I do wish they'd come off the bullshit about how wonderful it is. though. Acccording to them, it cures cancer, introduces you to God, and will re-vitalize a faling economy.

Pretty damend amazing for a common weed.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yes, I believe in drawing a line there. I am also a veteran and own firearms. I would draw the line at fully automatic weapons. After going through a lot of gun control threads, I think that moves to control magazine size or what guns cosmetically look like are pretty futile. I'd like to see guns taken out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, but not sure how to go about actually accomplishing that. To paraphrase Alvin Lee (RIP) "I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do."

So you are a hypocrite... lines where you like it emotionally.. no lines where you like it emotionally

got it

Well, for one thing, nobody is going to kill someone by smoking a doobie, whereas some jackass shooting guns in a theater or school will get someone killed. Has more to do with pragmatism than emotion. I should clarify that I do draw a distinction between harmless and potentially harmful drugs. Cannabis is pretty much a benign and harmless plant, not a drug. Heroin used to be sold over the counter. Cocaine was once part of the Coca-Cola drink.

....And, the Planet's still spinning.....despite "conservatives"' INSISTENCE that legalization would herald the end of mankind, in this Country.

BEEN there....

 

[KevinWestern]

Yeah it's costs money to criminalize pot, but I think we're better off paying that price as opposed to not paying it and having more druggies.

See, now we have an argument. Thanks.

I can see the point with cocaine and other deadly drugs. Drugs that kill people and basically make them worthless (ie meth).

But pot? Its non lethal, non addictive, people generally can still function just fine (a lot of very successful people smoke), and too a bunch of people are gonna smoke it regardless of the law (ie how many incremental smokers will you get anyway?).

Too, is policing a non lethal drug really worth billions of taxpayer dollars, all the cartel deaths, all of the lives ruined by prison, all of the resources drained in our courts and police offices (maybe they could spend that time tracking down more pedophiles or murderers)?

If prohibiting something results in tens of thousands of drug trade deaths every year, you better have a pretty darn good reason for prohibiting it. Are we saving tens of thousands of lives every year by making it illegal? Given that no one in history has ever overdosed on pot, id say no.

Are all those costs really worth it? I'm giving tangible consequences, do you have an equivalent tangible benefits?

Let me reiterate, the cost associated with criminalizing pot is well worth it, and people who go to prison because they're involved with pot have no one to blame but themselves. I disagree with you that people can function just fine on pot and it's a gateway drug to worse drugs. The less people on pot in this country the better.

Well, that's your opinion. As a recreational pot smoker myself, I don't see how it's any different than alcohol. The more you smoke, the less you're able to function (just like alcohol), so as a responsible adult, I limit myself and never smoke before or during work. I have a good job, and marijuana has never got in the way of me doing that job. Again, you have the freedom to get slammed before work, but do you?

Is a drug like that really worth spending billions on police, billions on prisons, and worth all of the tens of thousands of deaths that result from the drug trade? Like we're talking BIG money out of our paycheck, and people literally dying directly because of prohibition in HUGE numbers. Personally, I can't see how preventing "more druggies" outweigh those costs on a tangible level. Do you have examples?

I mean, the cartel death tolls should be enough reason to legalize marijuana in it of itself... right?

Are those lives worth keeping a non-lethal plant that's less dangerous than alcohol illegal?

I don't think so (personally)...

 

[KevinWestern]

Dope smokers are amusing morons. If you want to smoke that shit, knock yourselves out. Stupidity has its own built-in retribution. No one should go to jail for smoking dope.

I do wish they'd come off the bullshit about how wonderful it is. though. Acccording to them, it cures cancer, introduces you to God, and will re-vitalize a faling economy.

Pretty damend amazing for a common weed.

Hey man, if you want to downplay the benefits of smoking, you should go home and throw away all of your records and movies (for starters), because most if not all of those were likely influenced in some way by these drugs that help individuals think outside the box.

Steve Jobs was a pot smoker, for instance, and attributes a lot of his drug use to his ideas. I mean, is prohibiting these drugs worth the cost of all of this awesome innovation? Apple provides a lot of value to our economy.

.

 

[Borillar]

So you are a hypocrite... lines where you like it emotionally.. no lines where you like it emotionally

got it

Well, for one thing, nobody is going to kill someone by smoking a doobie, whereas some jackass shooting guns in a theater or school will get someone killed. Has more to do with pragmatism than emotion. I should clarify that I do draw a distinction between harmless and potentially harmful drugs. Cannabis is pretty much a benign and harmless plant, not a drug. Heroin used to be sold over the counter. Cocaine was once part of the Coca-Cola drink.

....And, the Planet's still spinning.....despite "conservatives"' INSISTENCE that legalization would herald the end of mankind, in this Country.

BEEN there....

Well, they haven't legalized it yet everywhere. I live in the Pacific NW though, and the sky hasn't fallen yet because of legalization in Washington. I'm hopeful that the world won't come to an end if cannabis is legalized.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

July-December 1933

MARIAJUANA SMOKING IN PANAMA
The Military Surgeon Volume 73​

"After an investigation extending from April to December, 1925, the Committee reached the following conclusion:

There is no evidence that mariahuana as grown here is a "habit-forming" drug in the sense in which the term is applied to alcohol, opium, cocaine, etc., or that it has any appreciably deleterious influence on the individuals using it.

The Committee recommended "that no steps be taken by the Canal Zone authorities to prevent the sale or use of mariahuana, and that no special legislation be asked for."

The findings of the Board, however, were not concurred in by most Army officers who exercised command directly over troops. The opinion among them was that mariajuana was a habit-forming drug and tended to undermine the morale of a. military organization when it was used to any extent by the personnel. There is correspondence on me in the Panama Canal expressing such an opinion and also expressing surprise at the findings of the committee.

On June 23,1928, the Department Commander directed that a further study be made of mariajuana. This study was to continue for one year.

On June 17, 1929, the Department Surgeon reported to the Chief of Staff that "the inquiry into the use of mariajuana by soldiers of the Department had been in effect a full year. The reports of the twelve months indicate that the use of the drug is not widespread and that its effects upon military efficiency and upon discipline are not great. There appears to be no reason for reviving the penalties formerly exacted for the possession and the use of the drug."

On January 3, 1930, the Department Commander called the attention of all Commanding Officers to the fact that the possession or use of mariajuana was not per se a military offense and that in any trials or other proceedings taken with a view of the separation of individuals from the military service, any proposed defense alleging that wrongful acts or incapacity was the result of the use of mariajuana was not a defense and was not to be so considered."

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well, for one thing, nobody is going to kill someone by smoking a doobie, whereas some jackass shooting guns in a theater or school will get someone killed. Has more to do with pragmatism than emotion. I should clarify that I do draw a distinction between harmless and potentially harmful drugs. Cannabis is pretty much a benign and harmless plant, not a drug. Heroin used to be sold over the counter. Cocaine was once part of the Coca-Cola drink.

....And, the Planet's still spinning.....despite "conservatives"' INSISTENCE that legalization would herald the end of mankind, in this Country.

BEEN there....

Well, they haven't legalized it yet everywhere. I live in the Pacific NW though, and the sky hasn't fallen yet because of legalization in Washington. I'm hopeful that the world won't come to an end if cannabis is legalized.

If it does, we can pretty-much depend on "conservatives" saving their last...dying....breath....to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!"

 

[MikeK]

Feds at the nci report pot has effects in stalling certain cancers. Shocker.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

That was a lung cancer study. The mice in that study were given THC by liquid directly injected into the stomach (gavage).

I'm sure the effectiveness of pot against lung cancer would have been much different if they smoked it.

If marijuana were made legal it wouldn't be long before smoking it would be the least common method of use. As anyone who ever has enjoyed properly made pot brownies, carrot cake, etc., will attest, ingesting it that way produces a much nicer, longer-lasting effect.

The only reason edibles aren't more common today is cost. It takes a lot more bud to make the required ingredient (pot butter) and it takes a while to learn how to properly bake with it. The pressures of prohibition have made smoking marijuana the most convenient, least costly means of use. It's cheaper, easier, and much more convenient to just put some in a pipe bowl or roll it into a cigarette and light it.

While it's true the effect from smoking marijuana comes on instantly and much more intensely, it also dissipates much sooner leaving an unpleasant, dull feeling.

 

[Borillar]

....And, the Planet's still spinning.....despite "conservatives"' INSISTENCE that legalization would herald the end of mankind, in this Country.

​

Well, they haven't legalized it yet everywhere. I live in the Pacific NW though, and the sky hasn't fallen yet because of legalization in Washington. I'm hopeful that the world won't come to an end if cannabis is legalized.

If it does, we can pretty-much depend on "conservatives" saving their last...dying....breath....to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!"

It is interesting to note that at one time farmers were required by law to grow hemp. Many of the founding fathers grew it. It has been used for millenia throughout the world. Only in the last century has it been deemed dangerous and made illegal.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Sugar is harmful. Salt is harmful. When Doomberg teied to limit these things we cried foul. What ever happened to personal choices?

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Dope smokers are amusing morons. If you want to smoke that shit, knock yourselves out. Stupidity has its own built-in retribution. No one should go to jail for smoking dope.

I do wish they'd come off the bullshit about how wonderful it is. though. Acccording to them, it cures cancer, introduces you to God, and will re-vitalize a faling economy.

Pretty damend amazing for a common weed.

Hey man, if you want to downplay the benefits of smoking, you should go home and throw away all of your records and movies (for starters), because most if not all of those were likely influenced in some way by these drugs that help individuals think outside the box.

Steve Jobs was a pot smoker, for instance, and attributes a lot of his drug use to his ideas. I mean, is prohibiting these drugs worth the cost of all of this awesome innovation? Apple provides a lot of value to our economy.

.

Wonderfully funny. See what I mean about dope smokers? Now pot is responsible for art in general and Apple Computers in particular.

I wonder if Jobs spent much time contemplating his hand and eating everything in the house.

 

[Spoonman]

Its time to legalize.

absolutely it is. i say that and i don't get high. it's no worse than alcohol. hundreds of thousands are in our jails for a recrational drug comparible to another legal one. we waste billions of dollars on an unwinable war against it. we provide gangs with a lucrative black market opportunity that again is not only costing us money, but lives and increased violence. by legaizing it we have a perfect opportunity to genrate income, create jobs, reduce our debt.

People are going to smoke it in the same amounts legal or not. right now its a cost, it can be turned into a gain. and should be

We waste so much tax dollars on arresting people for smoking or selling weed this is ridiculous, just legalize it and put an age limit on it like with alcohol. For weed I would say age 18 is appropriate. And you are right all making it illegal does is drive it to the underground, just like if porn were illegal, the mafias and gangs would snap that up real quick.

i do understand a lot of the health concerns people have voiced here. but people need to be free to make their own decisions. lots of things are bad for you, smoking, drinking, eating fast food, not excercising. but people make choices how they will live their ives and shoud be free to. we just need to provide the education and communicate the risks. the choice is then theirs. we can't be dictating every element of everyones lives.

make the laws the same as alcohol. besides, laws have done nothing to stop people from using it anyway

 

[KevinWestern]

Dope smokers are amusing morons. If you want to smoke that shit, knock yourselves out. Stupidity has its own built-in retribution. No one should go to jail for smoking dope.

I do wish they'd come off the bullshit about how wonderful it is. though. Acccording to them, it cures cancer, introduces you to God, and will re-vitalize a faling economy.

Pretty damend amazing for a common weed.

Hey man, if you want to downplay the benefits of smoking, you should go home and throw away all of your records and movies (for starters), because most if not all of those were likely influenced in some way by these drugs that help individuals think outside the box.

Steve Jobs was a pot smoker, for instance, and attributes a lot of his drug use to his ideas. I mean, is prohibiting these drugs worth the cost of all of this awesome innovation? Apple provides a lot of value to our economy.

.

Wonderfully funny. See what I mean about dope smokers? Now pot is responsible for art in general and Apple Computers in particular.

I wonder if Jobs spent much time contemplating his hand and eating everything in the house.

Yes, pot is (at least partly) responsible for a great majority of music that exists in the past 50 years. I stand behind that claim.

You can start with Jimi Hendrix, move onto Johnny Cash, then to Bob Dylan, and the Beatles, ect, ect.

Anyways, I don't think we're ever going to agree. But at least you sound like you're OK with legalization so I have no major quarrel with you.

You're not a money waster, which is good.

.

 

[DiamondDave]

What's wrong with that? Why else would a person drink alcoholic beverages? Something wrong with wanting to feel good?

Then why not cocaine?? Why not meth?? Why not heroin???

You open up the floodgates, and precedent lets it all in...

Unless you ARE for drawing a line.. and for most people, that line is with the drugs we have as illegal

Cocaine is highly addictive, but it still has medicinal benefits, that's why it's a Schedule II drug.

Meth is highly addictive and has no known medical benefits, neither does heroin, which is why both of those are classed as Schedule I drugs.

Cannabis is NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE, has PROVEN MEDICAL BENEFITS, yet is still on the Schedule I drug list.

As far as why should it be legal? Because, we already allow highly addictive substances like cigarettes and alcohol (and yes, drink enough alcohol and you will become physically addicted), and yet we refuse to allow cannabis.

The benefits to legalization would be not only would we be able to use the buds for smoke, but the rest of the plant could be used for things like cloth, paper, food and biofuel, which would contribute greatly towards helping out the economy.

At the very least, cannabis should be moved to Schedule II like cocaine is, because there ARE proven medical benefits, and cannabis is not physically addictive.

You might say that it could become psychologically addictive, but the same could be said about gambling, shopping, or co-dependent relationships.

1) The beneficial effects of pot are already legal.. as stated SO many times... Marinol
2) You think alcohol is worse, you can make a case for it becoming illegal... but you are only making a case that the reason to make pot legal are because you want the harmful or altering portions.. and frankly, that is no reason to change something from illegal to legal

 

[DiamondDave]

And, as far as Marinol? Yes, it is almost pure THC, but some people who have used it have reported negative effects like hallucinations and feeling paranoid when they tried pure THC in the form of Marinol or a vaporizer, yet they didn't experience any of those negative effects when it was smoked or consumed in food made with cannabis.

Smoking is not and never will be approved as a delivery method for medicine.. PERIOD... both inaccurate and harmful

And oh.. people not talking about negative effects.. hmmm. .POSSIBLY BECAUSE THEY WERE FUCKING HIGH

idiotic

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes, I realize policing things cost money (you're missing the point!). We as a society decide that it's worth investing the dollars in stopping things that are truly dangerous.

Example: it's worth spending billions of dollars policing murders and locking murderers up because... if murder was legal it would pose a huge threat to our quality of life.

However, given that pot is non-lethal, makes people calm, and pretty much poses zero threat to our overall quality of life, it's NOT worth policing. I'm not getting ANY BENEFIT for the billions of dollars we're pouring into the cause.

You need to provide us with justification for spending all of those dollars, and allowing tthe drug cartels to maintain a consistent revenue stream.

No.. it is EXACTLY the point.. you only want it legalized for the sake of the high.. which is no reason to make it legal...

Many crimes are only crimes of minor or no threat.. you just don't like it in this case emotionally

Oh, and pot is indeed harmful... you just accept that harm personally on an emotional (not rational) level

YOU need to provide justification to CHANGE the line of legality, which you have not done. you have only brought feeling and emotion into it.. the monetary argument is not valid for, as I said, every policing and prosecuting costs money... if the beneficial part is already legal, and all you want is the dangerous, or altering aspect, then you have ZERO argument.. and why I am very comfortable with the line as it is legally

My argument for legalization is not "I want to get high".

My argument is that it's not worth throwing billions of dollars away to policing it. And it's not worth the tens of thousands of deaths that occur because of the resulting drug trade.

If thousands dead are worth the price (for you) to make illegal a non-fatal plant, than I think you need to reexamine your own personal values.

And that argument is already destroyed as it costs millions and billions to police or enforce anything illegal