Irony re: marijuana

[DiamondDave]

What is this harmful aspect you are speaking of? The euphoric effect? Munchies? BTW Marinol can have these effects too.

Mind/mood altering as well as the toxic aspects of the ingesting or smoking of the raw material...

Marinol is actually prescribed to increase appetite in cancer patients...

All you have left that is not legal is the smoke and the high.. PERIOD

As stated.. if cigarettes were on the other side of the legal line, even though I was a smoker for YEARS, I would have NO argument in making it legal and taking it off the illegal list

Actually Marinol has many of the same psychoactive effects that marijuana has. Marijuana in smoked or vaporized form is probably better for patients undergoing chemotherapy than a pill. If you are puking everything up, how are you going to keep a pill down?

in 8% of users is that reported... 8% about the same as placebo

 

[KevinWestern]

No.. it is EXACTLY the point.. you only want it legalized for the sake of the high.. which is no reason to make it legal...

Many crimes are only crimes of minor or no threat.. you just don't like it in this case emotionally

Oh, and pot is indeed harmful... you just accept that harm personally on an emotional (not rational) level

YOU need to provide justification to CHANGE the line of legality, which you have not done. you have only brought feeling and emotion into it.. the monetary argument is not valid for, as I said, every policing and prosecuting costs money... if the beneficial part is already legal, and all you want is the dangerous, or altering aspect, then you have ZERO argument.. and why I am very comfortable with the line as it is legally

My argument for legalization is not "I want to get high".

My argument is that it's not worth throwing billions of dollars away to policing it. And it's not worth the tens of thousands of deaths that occur because of the resulting drug trade.

If thousands dead are worth the price (for you) to make illegal a non-fatal plant, than I think you need to reexamine your own personal values.

And that argument is already destroyed as it costs millions and billions to police or enforce anything illegal

Not sure how many times I have to explain this. Yes, I know enforcing things that are illegal cost money.

However, unlike murder, assault, rape, child pornography, the costs of enforcing marijuana prohibition greatly outweigh the benefit of it being prohibited.

Get my point?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well, they haven't legalized it yet everywhere. I live in the Pacific NW though, and the sky hasn't fallen yet because of legalization in Washington. I'm hopeful that the world won't come to an end if cannabis is legalized.

If it does, we can pretty-much depend on "conservatives" saving their last...dying....breath....to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!"

It is interesting to note that at one time farmers were required by law to grow hemp. Many of the founding fathers grew it. It has been used for millenia throughout the world. Only in the last century has it been deemed dangerous and made illegal.

As usual....Canada is WAY-ahead (of us) on that "curve".....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakzRI8-hl4]Hemp - What Are We Waiting For? - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Dope smokers are amusing morons. If you want to smoke that shit, knock yourselves out. Stupidity has its own built-in retribution. No one should go to jail for smoking dope.

I do wish they'd come off the bullshit about how wonderful it is. though. Acccording to them, it cures cancer, introduces you to God, and will re-vitalize a faling economy.

Pretty damend amazing for a common weed.

Hey man, if you want to downplay the benefits of smoking, you should go home and throw away all of your records and movies (for starters), because most if not all of those were likely influenced in some way by these drugs that help individuals think outside the box.

Steve Jobs was a pot smoker, for instance, and attributes a lot of his drug use to his ideas. I mean, is prohibiting these drugs worth the cost of all of this awesome innovation? Apple provides a lot of value to our economy.

.

Wonderfully funny. See what I mean about dope smokers? Now pot is responsible for art in general and Apple Computers in particular.

I wonder if Jobs spent much time contemplating his hand and eating everything in the house.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqAZ_7nBHS8]Bill Maher's AWESOME rant about LSD/Psilocybin . - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Then why not cocaine?? Why not meth?? Why not heroin???

You open up the floodgates, and precedent lets it all in...

Unless you ARE for drawing a line.. and for most people, that line is with the drugs we have as illegal

Cocaine is highly addictive, but it still has medicinal benefits, that's why it's a Schedule II drug.

Meth is highly addictive and has no known medical benefits, neither does heroin, which is why both of those are classed as Schedule I drugs.

Cannabis is NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE, has PROVEN MEDICAL BENEFITS, yet is still on the Schedule I drug list.

As far as why should it be legal? Because, we already allow highly addictive substances like cigarettes and alcohol (and yes, drink enough alcohol and you will become physically addicted), and yet we refuse to allow cannabis.

The benefits to legalization would be not only would we be able to use the buds for smoke, but the rest of the plant could be used for things like cloth, paper, food and biofuel, which would contribute greatly towards helping out the economy.

At the very least, cannabis should be moved to Schedule II like cocaine is, because there ARE proven medical benefits, and cannabis is not physically addictive.

You might say that it could become psychologically addictive, but the same could be said about gambling, shopping, or co-dependent relationships.

1) The beneficial effects of pot are already legal.. as stated SO many times... Marinol

Yeah....SO many times....by YOU!!

The big difference, is.....

....you've never BEEN "there"!!!!!

Watch your step around those footnotes. They're dangerously FACT-filled.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

And, as far as Marinol? Yes, it is almost pure THC, but some people who have used it have reported negative effects like hallucinations and feeling paranoid when they tried pure THC in the form of Marinol or a vaporizer, yet they didn't experience any of those negative effects when it was smoked or consumed in food made with cannabis.

Smoking is not and never will be approved as a delivery method for medicine.. PERIOD... both inaccurate and harmful

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo....NEVER....that magical-"absolute" that's worth ZIP!!!!


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-kFlVcg-cU]Marijuana smoking grandparents - YouTube[/ame]
*

*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8yYJ_oV6xk]Retired Police Captain demolishes the War on Drugs - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Mind/mood altering as well as the toxic aspects of the ingesting or smoking of the raw material...

Marinol is actually prescribed to increase appetite in cancer patients...

All you have left that is not legal is the smoke and the high.. PERIOD

As stated.. if cigarettes were on the other side of the legal line, even though I was a smoker for YEARS, I would have NO argument in making it legal and taking it off the illegal list

Actually Marinol has many of the same psychoactive effects that marijuana has. Marijuana in smoked or vaporized form is probably better for patients undergoing chemotherapy than a pill. If you are puking everything up, how are you going to keep a pill down?

in 8% of users is that reported... 8% about the same as placebo

You ENJOY being on the LOSING SIDE??



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDQMJo6Ijt8]Orange County Senior Citizens Form Medical Marijuana Collective - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[DiamondDave]

And of course the colorful troll cannot refute the fact that smoking is NEVER an approved deliver method for any medicine, so he splattercasts again... Hey, I know.. How about another link from NORML as proof?? LMFAO

Much like TDM, I can only advise that your suicide would collectively make this world a better and smarter place

 

[DiamondDave]

My argument for legalization is not "I want to get high".

My argument is that it's not worth throwing billions of dollars away to policing it. And it's not worth the tens of thousands of deaths that occur because of the resulting drug trade.

If thousands dead are worth the price (for you) to make illegal a non-fatal plant, than I think you need to reexamine your own personal values.

And that argument is already destroyed as it costs millions and billions to police or enforce anything illegal

Not sure how many times I have to explain this. Yes, I know enforcing things that are illegal cost money.

However, unlike murder, assault, rape, child pornography, the costs of enforcing marijuana prohibition greatly outweigh the benefit of it being prohibited.

Get my point?

And yet you only mention harmful crimes.. you seem to forget the amount of policing and prosecution of the 'victimless' or 'non-harmful' crimes.. millions and millions of dollars...

And you want it legal ONLY for the 'high' and harmful aspects because the beneficial aspects are already in a legalized product....

You got nothing

 

[KevinWestern]

And that argument is already destroyed as it costs millions and billions to police or enforce anything illegal

Not sure how many times I have to explain this. Yes, I know enforcing things that are illegal cost money.

However, unlike murder, assault, rape, child pornography, the costs of enforcing marijuana prohibition greatly outweigh the benefit of it being prohibited.

Get my point?

And yet you only mention harmful crimes.. you seem to forget the amount of policing and prosecution of the 'victimless' or 'non-harmful' crimes.. millions and millions of dollars...

And you want it legal ONLY for the 'high' and harmful aspects because the beneficial aspects are already in a legalized product....

You got nothing

What laws are you talking about specifically?

I'll repeat (for the manyeth time), MJ should be legal simply because the cost of prohibition (billions wasted to policing a harmless plant, thousands dead due to drug trade, resources used) is not outweighed by the benefit we receive from it being prohibited.

Not saying pot isn't totally harmless necessarily, I'm just saying its NOT HARMFUL enough to justify the costs we pay policing it, and the TENS of THOUSANDS that die as a result of the power it gives to the cartels. That's a lot of dead people. The blood is on the hands of the prohibitionists, just like the alcohol prohibitionists were responsible for giving rise to the mafia here in the US...

Here is the question you need to convince us of; what do we gain from prohibition, and is it worth the costs we pay? You're the one in favor of using time and resource to police it, so you need to justify why. It's my money, and if rather keep it or put it into something that benefits me.

Again, have you ever been involved in business? Would a CFO put up with wasting time, resources, and money on something that provides no valuable return? No.

Make your case!

 

[Katzndogz]

What are to costs of legalizing pot? Lack of productivity, increased health care costs, rehabilitation, rise in crime, permanent impairment of children's brain development. The costs far outweigh the benefits. Especially when there will be a huge number of children who will never develop normally.

If prohibition isn't the answer, it's because the right question isn't being asked. Why do we have a society in which so many people cannot get through the day without being high? We know where it leads. We have examples of cultures so devoted to getting and being high that the nation is dysfunctional. We have Yemen and Portugal.

When people talk about legalizing drugs, it's hard to know what they mean. Marijuana was legalized in Colorado, but it didn't stop Colorado Springs from passing their own laws recriminalizing pot. What people forget is that when the federal prohibition law was repealed prohibition did not end. Prosecution ended on the federal level. There were still laws of prohibition in states, counties and cities. There are laws of prohibition to this very day. Where the state and county fails to pass sufficient laws regulating the sale of alcohol, cities limit sales or just forbid the sale of alcohol.

 

[DiamondDave]

Not sure how many times I have to explain this. Yes, I know enforcing things that are illegal cost money.

However, unlike murder, assault, rape, child pornography, the costs of enforcing marijuana prohibition greatly outweigh the benefit of it being prohibited.

Get my point?

And yet you only mention harmful crimes.. you seem to forget the amount of policing and prosecution of the 'victimless' or 'non-harmful' crimes.. millions and millions of dollars...

And you want it legal ONLY for the 'high' and harmful aspects because the beneficial aspects are already in a legalized product....

You got nothing

What laws are you talking about specifically?

I'll repeat (for the manyeth time), MJ should be legal simply because the cost of prohibition (billions wasted to policing a harmless plant, thousands dead due to drug trade, resources used) is not outweighed by the benefit we receive from it being prohibited.

Not saying pot isn't totally harmless necessarily, I'm just saying its NOT HARMFUL enough to justify the costs we pay policing it, and the TENS of THOUSANDS that die as a result of the power it gives to the cartels. That's a lot of dead people. The blood is on the hands of the prohibitionists, just like the alcohol prohibitionists were responsible for giving rise to the mafia here in the US...

Here is the question you need to convince us of; what do we gain from prohibition, and is it worth the costs? You're the one in favor of using time and resource to police it, so you need to justify why. It's my money, and if rather keep it or put it into something that benefits me.

Again, have you ever been involved in business? Would a CFO put up with wasting time, resources, and money on something that provides no valuable return? No.

Make your case!

1) Are you saying we have no victimless or harmless laws on the books enforced? Lets see how much money alone we have on policing, prosecution etc of things as small as PARKING... or permit law
2) I am not advocating making something that is legal now illegal.. so your prohibition argument is off...
3) It is you who are advocating making something legal from illegal status only because of the harmful and altering effects since the beneficial ones are ALREADY LEGAL
4) YOU need to do the convincing, which you have not done, since YOU are advocating the change.. you have made ZERO case...

As stated, you buffoon, if cigarettes were illegal now, I would have the same problem making an argument to change their status from illegal to legal...

Law enforcement is much different than business.. the government is not a for profit enterprise..

But keep spraying all over the place.. it is pretty laughable

You simply support the high... because your other arguments have no validity

 

[KevinWestern]

What are to costs of legalizing pot? Lack of productivity, increased health care costs, rehabilitation, rise in crime, permanent impairment of children's brain development. The costs far outweigh the benefits. Especially when there will be a huge number of children who will never develop normally.

If prohibition isn't the answer, it's because the right question isn't being asked. Why do we have a society in which so many people cannot get through the day without being high? We know where it leads. We have examples of cultures so devoted to getting and being high that the nation is dysfunctional. We have Yemen and Portugal.

When people talk about legalizing drugs, it's hard to know what they mean. Marijuana was legalized in Colorado, but it didn't stop Colorado Springs from passing their own laws recriminalizing pot. What people forget is that when the federal prohibition law was repealed prohibition did not end. Prosecution ended on the federal level. There were still laws of prohibition in states, counties and cities. There are laws of prohibition to this very day. Where the state and county fails to pass sufficient laws regulating the sale of alcohol, cities limit sales or just forbid the sale of alcohol.

First off, pot will be illegal for kids (just like alcohol). Secondly, does pot smoking cause people to commit crimes? It's a drug that makes people calm and cautious, so that's not a good argument. I'll need some solid evidence on this claim.

Increased healthcare costs? Pot is known to actually to be pretty beneficial medically, and often replaces expensive drugs - cancer meds, for example - because it can be grown naturally. I'd actually argue that legalization would LOWER the cost of healthcare.

Rehabilitation? Pot is non addictive (unlike cigarettes, alcohol).There's much worse out there.

Lack of productivity? Again where's your evidence? I know a lot of people who are much more creative and productive when high than not when high; are they not factored into that build?

And you make a point about how prohibition still often remained at the state level. I ask: when you visit a new town do you generally assume alcohol is legal or illegal?

I'd go with legal because that's the situation 99.9% of the time. Most towns DO NOT prohibit it.

 

[KevinWestern]

And yet you only mention harmful crimes.. you seem to forget the amount of policing and prosecution of the 'victimless' or 'non-harmful' crimes.. millions and millions of dollars...

And you want it legal ONLY for the 'high' and harmful aspects because the beneficial aspects are already in a legalized product....

You got nothing

What laws are you talking about specifically?

I'll repeat (for the manyeth time), MJ should be legal simply because the cost of prohibition (billions wasted to policing a harmless plant, thousands dead due to drug trade, resources used) is not outweighed by the benefit we receive from it being prohibited.

Not saying pot isn't totally harmless necessarily, I'm just saying its NOT HARMFUL enough to justify the costs we pay policing it, and the TENS of THOUSANDS that die as a result of the power it gives to the cartels. That's a lot of dead people. The blood is on the hands of the prohibitionists, just like the alcohol prohibitionists were responsible for giving rise to the mafia here in the US...

Here is the question you need to convince us of; what do we gain from prohibition, and is it worth the costs? You're the one in favor of using time and resource to police it, so you need to justify why. It's my money, and if rather keep it or put it into something that benefits me.

Again, have you ever been involved in business? Would a CFO put up with wasting time, resources, and money on something that provides no valuable return? No.

Make your case!

1) Are you saying we have no victimless or harmless laws on the books enforced? Lets see how much money alone we have on policing, prosecution etc of things as small as PARKING... or permit law
2) I am not advocating making something that is legal now illegal.. so your prohibition argument is off...
3) It is you who are advocating making something legal from illegal status only because of the harmful and altering effects since the beneficial ones are ALREADY LEGAL
4) YOU need to do the convincing, which you have not done, since YOU are advocating the change.. you have made ZERO case...

As stated, you buffoon, if cigarettes were illegal now, I would have the same problem making an argument to change their status from illegal to legal...

Law enforcement is much different than business.. the government is not a for profit enterprise..

But keep spraying all over the place.. it is pretty laughable

You simply support the high... because your other arguments have no validity

You are the one currently wasting my tax dollars policing pot, and making my streets MORE DANGEROUS by giving the street gangs a revenue stream thanks to prohibition.

You, not I, are responsible for those costs.

Therefore, you need to justify them.

 

[Katzndogz]

What are to costs of legalizing pot? Lack of productivity, increased health care costs, rehabilitation, rise in crime, permanent impairment of children's brain development. The costs far outweigh the benefits. Especially when there will be a huge number of children who will never develop normally.

If prohibition isn't the answer, it's because the right question isn't being asked. Why do we have a society in which so many people cannot get through the day without being high? We know where it leads. We have examples of cultures so devoted to getting and being high that the nation is dysfunctional. We have Yemen and Portugal.

When people talk about legalizing drugs, it's hard to know what they mean. Marijuana was legalized in Colorado, but it didn't stop Colorado Springs from passing their own laws recriminalizing pot. What people forget is that when the federal prohibition law was repealed prohibition did not end. Prosecution ended on the federal level. There were still laws of prohibition in states, counties and cities. There are laws of prohibition to this very day. Where the state and county fails to pass sufficient laws regulating the sale of alcohol, cities limit sales or just forbid the sale of alcohol.

First off, pot will be illegal for kids (just like alcohol). Secondly, does pot smoking cause people to commit crimes? It's a drug that makes people calm and cautious, so that's not a good argument. I'll need some solid evidence on this claim.

Increased healthcare costs? Pot is known to actually to be pretty beneficial medically, and often replaces expensive drugs - cancer meds, for example - because it can be grown naturally. I'd actually argue that legalization would LOWER the cost of healthcare.

Rehabilitation? Pot is non addictive (unlike cigarettes, alcohol).There's much worse out there.

Lack of productivity? Again where's your evidence? I know a lot of people who are much more creative and productive when high than not when high; are they not factored into that build?

And you make a point about how prohibition still often remained at the state level. I ask: when you visit a new town do you generally assume alcohol is legal or illegal?

I'd go with legal because that's the situation 99.9% of the time. Most towns DO NOT prohibit it.

Pot is still illegal for kids in Colorado. So why was there an immediate spike in pot use by children as soon as it became legal?

Drug Testing Company Sees Spike In Children Using Marijuana « CBS Denver

Not that there is no downside to kids using pot. They can become so drugged out the crime rate drops. After all, committing a crime requires SOME degree of ability to plan and act. It takes a level of creativity to commit a crime.

California Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rate To Record Low: Study

Of course, this means, necessarily, that children ARE using pot heavily enough to suppress the ability and creativity. Which means, again, that you are pretty much wrong. If pot use increased productivity and creativity, then certainly pot smoking high schoolers would be among the highest achievers. They aren't they are, in fact, failures.

Legalization is not an entirely bad idea. It will reduce the field of achievers. Yes, for a while we will have an excessive number of drug addicts for a generation or so, but it will even out eventually. After all, mexico is improving. In large measure that is due to the 70,000 dealers and users taken out permanently.

There is a chance that legalization will have an end result of the cartel wars coming here and treating legal sales like another cartel incursion. I hope so. Taking out 70,000 addicts and sellers can only be an improvement.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

And of course the colorful troll cannot refute the fact that smoking is NEVER an approved deliver method for any medicine....

Ah, yes.....that good ol' "conservative", favorite "absolute"; NEVER!!!!!

*

 

[Mr. Shaman]

And that argument is already destroyed as it costs millions and billions to police or enforce anything illegal

Not sure how many times I have to explain this. Yes, I know enforcing things that are illegal cost money.

However, unlike murder, assault, rape, child pornography, the costs of enforcing marijuana prohibition greatly outweigh the benefit of it being prohibited.

Get my point?

And yet you only mention harmful crimes.. you seem to forget the amount of policing and prosecution of the 'victimless' or 'non-harmful' crimes.. millions and millions of dollars...

Aw, jeez......

You want to make alcohol illegal, AGAIN??!!!!

"Great" idea, LOSER!!!!​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What are to costs of legalizing pot? Lack of productivity, increased health care costs, rehabilitation, rise in crime, permanent impairment of children's brain development.

That's what Porky Limbaugh says, huh??​

 

[Rocko]

And of course the colorful troll cannot refute the fact that smoking is NEVER an approved deliver method for any medicine....

Ah, yes.....that good ol' "conservative", favorite "absolute"; NEVER!!!!!

*

Just out of curiosity, why do post with all those colors, in that font, with smileys? It seems like a lot of work to post that way. How old are you? How's anyone supposed to take you seriously?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What are to costs of legalizing pot? Lack of productivity, increased health care costs, rehabilitation, rise in crime, permanent impairment of children's brain development. The costs far outweigh the benefits. Especially when there will be a huge number of children who will never develop normally.

If prohibition isn't the answer, it's because the right question isn't being asked. Why do we have a society in which so many people cannot get through the day without being high? We know where it leads. We have examples of cultures so devoted to getting and being high that the nation is dysfunctional. We have Yemen and Portugal.

When people talk about legalizing drugs, it's hard to know what they mean. Marijuana was legalized in Colorado, but it didn't stop Colorado Springs from passing their own laws recriminalizing pot. What people forget is that when the federal prohibition law was repealed prohibition did not end. Prosecution ended on the federal level. There were still laws of prohibition in states, counties and cities. There are laws of prohibition to this very day. Where the state and county fails to pass sufficient laws regulating the sale of alcohol, cities limit sales or just forbid the sale of alcohol.

First off, pot will be illegal for kids (just like alcohol). Secondly, does pot smoking cause people to commit crimes? It's a drug that makes people calm and cautious, so that's not a good argument. I'll need some solid evidence on this claim.

Increased healthcare costs? Pot is known to actually to be pretty beneficial medically, and often replaces expensive drugs - cancer meds, for example - because it can be grown naturally. I'd actually argue that legalization would LOWER the cost of healthcare.

Rehabilitation? Pot is non addictive (unlike cigarettes, alcohol).There's much worse out there.

Lack of productivity? Again where's your evidence? I know a lot of people who are much more creative and productive when high than not when high; are they not factored into that build?

And you make a point about how prohibition still often remained at the state level. I ask: when you visit a new town do you generally assume alcohol is legal or illegal?

I'd go with legal because that's the situation 99.9% of the time. Most towns DO NOT prohibit it.

Pot is still illegal for kids in Colorado. So why was there an immediate spike in pot use by children as soon as it became legal?

Drug Testing Company Sees Spike In Children Using Marijuana « CBS Denver

Not that there is no downside to kids using pot. They can become so drugged out the crime rate drops. After all, committing a crime requires SOME degree of ability to plan and act. It takes a level of creativity to commit a crime.

California Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rate To Record Low: Study

Of course, this means, necessarily, that children ARE using pot heavily enough to suppress the ability and creativity. Which means, again, that you are pretty much wrong. If pot use increased productivity and creativity, then certainly pot smoking high schoolers would be among the highest achievers. They aren't they are, in fact, failures.

Legalization is not an entirely bad idea. It will reduce the field of achievers. Yes, for a while we will have an excessive number of drug addicts for a generation or so, but it will even out eventually. After all, mexico is improving. In large measure that is due to the 70,000 dealers and users taken out permanently.

There is a chance that legalization will have an end result of the cartel wars coming here and treating legal sales like another cartel incursion. I hope so. Taking out 70,000 addicts and sellers can only be an improvement.

Yeah.....that's (all) bullshit.....as usual.....

Run, along, Skippy.....

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zex7TfyW3cw]Jack Cole, Founder of LEAP, Testifies at HB1393 Medical Marijuana Hearing 8/19/2010 (Part 1 of 2) - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn-CVd5DzfA]Jack Cole, Founder of LEAP, Q&A session at HB1393 Medical Marijuana Hearing 8/19/2010 (Part 2 of 2) - YouTube[/ame]
*
​