IRS Scandal:Ms. Lerner-- hero or villian.

[iamwhatiseem]

The Lerner story is getting more interesting by the day.
This women has all the hallmarks of someone who refuses to be the scapegoat. Maybe.
Her refusal to talk certainly would seem to indicate guilt, but not always. She may also be afraid to reveal what she knows. She may not want to reveal what she knows because perhaps it could damage a set of people she believes in.
Her second refusal to resign, again shows clear defiance.
Perhaps her little talk at the beginning of the hearing that waved her 5th amendment rights - was not an accident.
Perhaps. Perhaps this woman is the key to it all.

 

[JoeB131]

Or perhaps she's been around Washington long enough to realize you don't give the politicians the shovel to bury you.

Hey, remember Iran-Contra? Remember how Ollie North got a pass on embezzling funds from illegal arms sales and giving them to the contras, but Cap Weinberger- who had opposed the whole scheme from the get-go, got indicted for lying to Congress because he said he didn't keep a diary, but in Lawrence Walsh land, meeting notes were a diary. Forget that they weren't, that Cap had handed them over to the National Archives, and that they supported his testimony. He was indicted twice for this.

Remember Whitewater- That's where the Clintons were investigated for a land deal where they lost money, some of their friends went to jail, and eventually, it turned into an investigation where they were investigating whether the president lied about a blow job and whether blow jobs actually count as sex.

Hey, Remember Plamegate? That's when a reporter exposed the name of a "secret" operative (who hadn't been in the feild in a decade), and Scooter Libby got convicted not of exposing the name, but of not remembering who brought the topic up first in a conversation. The guy who did leak the name- Richard Armitage- was never charged.

Yeah, can't imagine why Ms. Lerner isn't keen on saying stuff without immunity.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Or perhaps she's been around Washington long enough to realize you don't give the politicians the shovel to bury you.

Hey, remember Iran-Contra? Remember how Ollie North got a pass on embezzling funds from illegal arms sales and giving them to the contras, but Cap Weinberger- who had opposed the whole scheme from the get-go, got indicted for lying to Congress because he said he didn't keep a diary, but in Lawrence Walsh land, meeting notes were a diary. Forget that they weren't, that Cap had handed them over to the National Archives, and that they supported his testimony. He was indicted twice for this.

Remember Whitewater- That's where the Clintons were investigated for a land deal where they lost money, some of their friends went to jail, and eventually, it turned into an investigation where they were investigating whether the president lied about a blow job and whether blow jobs actually count as sex.

Hey, Remember Plamegate? That's when a reporter exposed the name of a "secret" operative (who hadn't been in the feild in a decade), and Scooter Libby got convicted not of exposing the name, but of not remembering who brought the topic up first in a conversation. The guy who did leak the name- Richard Armitage- was never charged.

Yeah, can't imagine why Ms. Lerner isn't keen on saying stuff without immunity.

And you may very well be 100% correct.
I only present another possibility, what does not make sense is her defiance by not resigning...to which, I have no doubt, she would have received more than enough compensation to retire. Agreeing to resign does not admit guilt, nor implies it in a court of law. This is the interesting part to me. The government loves scapegoats, as you pointed out above, for some reason she seems to refuse to be one.

 

[WillowTree]

Ever notice any time a stupid democrat does something wrong another stupid democrat comes along and argues about something that happened 30 40 or 50 years ago. They take no responsibility for anything therefore should never be in power.

 

[JoeB131]

Ever notice any time a stupid democrat does something wrong another stupid democrat comes along and argues about something that happened 30 40 or 50 years ago. They take no responsibility for anything therefore should never be in power.

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

Now it would have been satisfying to see Ms. Lerner say, "You dickheads wrote bad laws, probably half of you don't really understand them if I were to give you a pop quiz, but you expect my officials to sort out who is a valid charity and who is trying to run a scam. Oh, yeah, and you keep cutting my staff."

 

[WillowTree]

Ever notice any time a stupid democrat does something wrong another stupid democrat comes along and argues about something that happened 30 40 or 50 years ago. They take no responsibility for anything therefore should never be in power.

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

 

[JoeB131]

Ever notice any time a stupid democrat does something wrong another stupid democrat comes along and argues about something that happened 30 40 or 50 years ago. They take no responsibility for anything therefore should never be in power.

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

Actually, those people DIDN'T do it.

Cap and Scooter testified voluntarily... and they got burned. And they didn't even do what people were upset about.

Frankly, you guys haven't convinced me that not giving teabagger groups tax exemptions is a scandal.

 

[whitehall]

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

Actually, those people DIDN'T do it.

Cap and Scooter testified voluntarily... and they got burned. And they didn't even do what people were upset about.

Frankly, you guys haven't convinced me that not giving teabagger groups tax exemptions is a scandal.

Say what? You think targeting right wing groups by the IRS was legal and appropriate? God help us if the bigoted left ever gains control over the whole Country.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

Actually, those people DIDN'T do it.

Cap and Scooter testified voluntarily... and they got burned. And they didn't even do what people were upset about.

Frankly, you guys haven't convinced me that not giving teabagger groups tax exemptions is a scandal.

Holy...it isn't that they didn't "give" them non-profit status - it is that they SPECIFICALLY targeted them to a level of scrutiny that goes beyond what they have ever done for any other group. It is the fact they had internal documents showing that they targeted groups based on political swing.
Holy Shit man if you can't find anything wrong with unelected government officials misusing their authority and holding back legal requirements based on political beliefs then you should immediately move to Venezuela or Cuba etc. where this is standard practice.
Jesus Christ.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Considering the Republican witch hunt and GOP leaders saying someone is going to jail...I think she did the right thing for herself legally.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

Actually, those people DIDN'T do it.

Cap and Scooter testified voluntarily... and they got burned. And they didn't even do what people were upset about.

Frankly, you guys haven't convinced me that not giving teabagger groups tax exemptions is a scandal.

Nobody said that not giving teabaggers (pretty much says it all about you) tax exempt status is a scandal. What is a major problem is the IRS putting the administration's detractors under a microscope while giving its supporters a pass. And there's also the problem with suppressing political opposition in the midst of an election. This has all been but admitted to.

Lerner has a major problem.. and no, Obama will probably never be implicated... personally, I doubt he really knew anything about any of this.

 

[whitehall]

While the twenty-something tax-exempt Soros propaganda sources crank out talking points for the low information left, the administration is trying to convince Americans that they are just stupid rather than stupid criminals.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Considering the Republican witch hunt and GOP leaders saying someone is going to jail...I think she did the right thing for her.

"Truthseeker"....should that not be "spinseeker"?
Witch hunt implies that the investigation is baseless and without warrant.
Is that what you want to say? That despite the IRS admitting to withholding status based on political beliefs, you believe we should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
Gee - I bet that opinion is also based on political beliefs.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Not to mention the IRS was literally asking people what they were praying about.. think about that for a minute.. praying about.

This is right out of the Stalinist playbook.

 

[midcan5]

That bit of political theater was fascinating. She won that round, it would be interesting if all the IRS people took the fifth and then our modern day republicans and ineffective democrats got back to work on jobs or some other significant policy work. Fat chance huh.

Probably the worst outcome of this political fishing expedition will be the IRS becomes even more useless and anyone wanting to cheat can pick their special no touch taboo name.

 

[Katzndogz]

If Lerner is taking the 5th to protect someone, she cannot use the 5th. It's as simple as that. If it is discovered that someone else is guilty of a crime, misdemeanor or wrong doing and she's taking the 5th to conceal that, she is guilty of several additional crimes, obstruction of justice just for starters.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

That bit of political theater was fascinating. She won that round, it would be interesting if all the IRS people took the fifth and then our modern day republicans and ineffective democrats got back to work on jobs or some other significant policy work. Fat chance huh.

Probably the worst outcome of this political fishing expedition will be the IRS becomes even more useless and anyone wanting to cheat can pick their special no touch taboo name.

She won that round by declaring her innocence, stating that no laws had been broken and then invoking her right to not incriminate herself?

She came off as a dunce of a lawyer who doesn't understand that you can't plead your case and then refuse to be cross examined.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If Lerner is taking the 5th to protect someone, she cannot use the 5th. It's as simple as that. If it is discovered that someone else is guilty of a crime, misdemeanor or wrong doing and she's taking the 5th to conceal that, she is guilty of several additional crimes, obstruction of justice just for starters.

Even Dershowitz has stated that she has major problems.

 

[Sallow]

Or perhaps she's been around Washington long enough to realize you don't give the politicians the shovel to bury you.

Hey, remember Iran-Contra? Remember how Ollie North got a pass on embezzling funds from illegal arms sales and giving them to the contras, but Cap Weinberger- who had opposed the whole scheme from the get-go, got indicted for lying to Congress because he said he didn't keep a diary, but in Lawrence Walsh land, meeting notes were a diary. Forget that they weren't, that Cap had handed them over to the National Archives, and that they supported his testimony. He was indicted twice for this.

Remember Whitewater- That's where the Clintons were investigated for a land deal where they lost money, some of their friends went to jail, and eventually, it turned into an investigation where they were investigating whether the president lied about a blow job and whether blow jobs actually count as sex.

Hey, Remember Plamegate? That's when a reporter exposed the name of a "secret" operative (who hadn't been in the feild in a decade), and Scooter Libby got convicted not of exposing the name, but of not remembering who brought the topic up first in a conversation. The guy who did leak the name- Richard Armitage- was never charged.

Yeah, can't imagine why Ms. Lerner isn't keen on saying stuff without immunity.

And you may very well be 100% correct.
I only present another possibility, what does not make sense is her defiance by not resigning...to which, I have no doubt, she would have received more than enough compensation to retire. Agreeing to resign does not admit guilt, nor implies it in a court of law. This is the interesting part to me. The government loves scapegoats, as you pointed out above, for some reason she seems to refuse to be one.

She didn't waive her 5th amendment right.

 

[Intense]

No, I didn't notice that.

What I noted was that other people found themselves made scapegoats, and therefore it's pretty sensible for Ms. Lerner not to serve herself up with one.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you would see that I pointed out that Cap Weinberger and Scooter Libby got raw deals. They weren't personally responsible for the things people were upset about. Those guys (Ollie North and Richard Armitage) got passes for some reason or another.

Personally, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this issue, all the hyperventilating aside.

The rules for tax exemption and who gets one are very convoluted and the IRS is given way too much discretion on who deserves one or not.

And the thing was, not one of these groups were actually denied an exemption. 108 were approved, 28 were withdrawn, the rest are still pending.

that's exactly what you did. Instead of addressing this scandal on this day you went back to the old "but someone else did it too" as if that explains or excuses a goddamn thing this stupid democrat did. and all she gets for her nefarious behavior and lies is a long taxpayer paid vacation, makes me want to vomit.

Actually, those people DIDN'T do it.

Cap and Scooter testified voluntarily... and they got burned. And they didn't even do what people were upset about.

Frankly, you guys haven't convinced me that not giving teabagger groups tax exemptions is a scandal.

I'm utterly shocked and speechless.

The scandal is about an abuse of power rooted in partisan obstructionism. There was no cause. Ask yourself why you are still blind to the bias. Be the groups left or right, is secondary to whether the IRS was justified in what they did. Plainly they were wrong.