Is Bush A Racist?

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
I have to take exception to this. Minorites DO have the same access, and in some instances, even more.

When interviewing for a job (my only experience was government, i.e., County, State, or Fed) if the interivew process was down to myself and one African American female, the job would go to her, regardless of qualifications, simply because she is a minority. There are numbers that each agency has to keep up with in regard to number of minority employees.

THAT gives an African American female more access than a Caucasian female.

Depends on how you look at the statistics.

If you look at the situation in a vacuum, without any history and without any prejudisms, then the workforce would very closely relate to population percentages.

If there were 12% Blacks in America & 60% whites, then the work force at all levels, would very closely relate to those percentages (+/- a small degree of error).

As a result of past history and discriminatory practices, those percentages are significantly off, especially as you go to higher positions.

Currently, if you look at the trends minorities are bridging those gaps and starting to breakthrough. You see many more minorities in high ranking positions now, than you did 20 years ago.

The point is, there are still walls. They just may not be as high or as deep as they used to be. We can allow them to continue to fall at a rate similar to the tower of Pisa. Or we can break down the walls, as was done in Berlin.

 

[Moi]

Sorry, Lonevoice, doesn't really compute. Discriminating against me isn't going to alleviate discrimination against others. All it does is create (i) even more resentment against minorities, (ii) a greater sense of entitlement from minorities (iii) a self-fulfilling prophecy of minorities that they are inferior and (iv) a sense from non-minorities that minorities are, in fact, inferior since they would not have succeeded without preferential treatment.

This is not ever going to create more tolerance and fairness between the races- NEVER.

I would also say that I do not believe that there is a prevelance of racism in this country any more than in other countries around the world. America was not the first or only nation to practice slavery, blacks were not the only, nor first nor last, slaves. Many peoples worldwide were the victim of prejudice, oppression and slavery. Only blacks in this country seem to want to keep pursuing the issue, only liberals seem to forget that none of us were alive or responsible for it. And, furthermore, when the subject of slavery arises and blame is cast, I hope that the african chiefs who sold off their citizens are sitting on that gallows too because they are just as complicit.

No one people's hands are pure and to suggest that those of us living in this country today owe any greater debt than anyone else is not only ludicrous, it's unconstitutional.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Excellent post Moi. Thanks!

LoneVoice:

I really care not hear the stats of percentages of population, etc. Jobs, regardless of what career, should be given based on qualifications, not based on race. Should I lose a job to a better qualified African American, then I would continue my search elsewhere with no qualms. However, should I not be appointed to a position based strictly on the fact that the other person is a minority, that my friend, is racist.

Should I go to Harlem and apply for, say, a teaching position at a local high school, I would not expect to be given preferential treatment. The reverse, however, is not the case.

 

[William Joyce]

stating that the races never have, and never will, get along simply because their different races is ridiculous.

OK, then.

If what you say is true, you'll have an example of multiracial harmony for us.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by Moi
If I remember correctly, the topic was whether bush is a racist. My answer is, emphatically, no.

I don't think anyone can show anything in his past which shows that he's a racist. Nor, I might add, do I think all republicans are racists. The fact is that there are many racists, some are republicans some not.

As far as affirmative action goes, you can flip a few pages back and see: reverse discrimation is just that- discrimination.

The only way to counter racism is to erradicate it, not reverse it.

Is he a racist as a person? I haven't seen enough evidence to support that claim. If you look, there are articles to support that claim, in this thread.

Does Bush and his party support and promote racist policies, either directly or as an oppressive majority? That would be yes.

Examples mentioned:
Affirmative Action: In effect want to reduce the avenues for minority inclusion.
Religious Tolerance: only want to tolerate Christian based religious views.
Gay Marriage: Constitutional amendment to prevent the legals benefits associated with marriage for gays.
Sodomy Laws: Republican oriented bills passed, even with no real plans for enforcement.


Actually in this case reverse discrimination is just that.... Enacting legislation for the intent of reversing the overwhelming effects of the current discriminatory practices. When it reaches a point of giving more positions to minorities than their percentage makeup entitles (if that ever occurs), then it would be discriminatory against whites.

When you face the facts, history has clearly proven discriminatory practices against minorities. As a result, all the statistics clearly demonstrate that these minorities are underrepresented in many layers of the workforce (especially the higher up you go). As a result of changing times, and policies eliminating many of those discriminatory practices, minorities are succeeding at rates that more closely resembles their percentage makeup. Yet, there is obviously still a gap.

It's worked thus far in assisting to remedy those gaps that have resulted from past discriminatory practices. Don't end it, amend it. I welcome you to suggest a better way of removing those gaps, resulting from past discriminatory practices.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
Excellent post Moi. Thanks!

LoneVoice:

I really care not hear the stats of percentages of population, etc. Jobs, regardless of what career, should be given based on qualifications, not based on race. Should I lose a job to a better qualified African American, then I would continue my search elsewhere with no qualms. However, should I not be appointed to a position based strictly on the fact that the other person is a minority, that my friend, is racist.

Should I go to Harlem and apply for, say, a teaching position at a local high school, I would not expect to be given preferential treatment. The reverse, however, is not the case.

Interesing how you can see the discriminatory practices (if it's even valid to use "practices" in the plural form) that are hurtful to whites, and want to have them resolved.

But when you look at the discriminatory practices that are hurtful to minorities, you don't want them resolved. Even though history clearly demonstrates that those practices have been more severe over a longer period of time.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Interesing how you can see the discriminatory practices (if it's even valid to use "practices" in the plural form) that are hurtful to whites, and want to have them resolved.

But when you look at the discriminatory practices that are hurtful to minorities, you don't want them resolved. Even though history clearly demonstrates that those practices have been more severe over a longer period of time.

You need to get your eyes checked. Lil didn't post one single time saying that she thought discriminatory practices which aren't discrminatory to whites should be allowed.

Just because someone is against affirmative action doesn't mean that they are for discrimination against minorities. And you are quite ignorant to suggest that it is.

Furthermore, neither gays nor religion can make someone racist. GWB is conservative. That doesn't make him a racist. Once again, your ignorance shows.

 

[sitarro]

What is a real solution lonevoice ? All I've heard from you is that the collective white people in this country need to sit in front of a mirror like Stuart Smalley and repeat what a bunch of assholes we are because of something others did to people who are all dead and buried many years ago .
Where is the inequality lonevoice , site some examples . I don't see it , I see that people who use their brain and get off their ass can make it in America. I know Vietnamese that have come here with nothing that then created a new life and brought the rest of their family to this country because they saw the opportunity . These were people from the most unpopular war ever . Tell me that they didn't have any prejudices to deal with .
Housing projects , welfare for doing nothing , affirmative action , football and basketball scholarships , government jobs. . . all thrown back in our faces . All these handouts do is breed people that bite the hand that feeds them .
So what is your solution , stop blaming whitey , I would like to hear a real life solution . Trillions have been spent and what do we have to show for it . How do you explain the Kobes , P.Diddys , Snoop Dips , all the money and still doing assinine things but rarely doing anything to create a life for their people.
The fact is there is no easy solution but you better come up with one because the worst are influencing are kids . Look at the tasteless clothing , the incredibly bad garbage coming out of the music industry , drug proliferation , incredibly bad driving , irresponsible sexual morals , total lack of family responsibility , generations making the same stupid decisions perpetuating the loser life style . It is not up to white America , it has to come from the black community .

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by sitarro
What is a real solution lonevoice ? All I've heard from you is that the collective white people in this country need to sit in front of a mirror like Stuart Smalley and repeat what a bunch of assholes we are because of something others did to people who are all dead and buried many years ago .
Where is the inequality lonevoice , site some examples . I don't see it , I see that people who use their brain and get off their ass can make it in America. I know Vietnamese that have come here with nothing that then created a new life and brought the rest of their family to this country because they saw the opportunity . These were people from the most unpopular war ever . Tell me that they didn't have any prejudices to deal with .
Housing projects , welfare for doing nothing , affirmative action , football and basketball scholarships , government jobs. . . all thrown back in our faces . All these handouts do is breed people that bite the hand that feeds them .
So what is your solution , stop blaming whitey , I would like to hear a real life solution . Trillions have been spent and what do we have to show for it . How do you explain the Kobes , P.Diddys , Snoop Dips , all the money and still doing assinine things but rarely doing anything to create a life for their people.
The fact is there is no easy solution but you better come up with one because the worst are influencing are kids . Look at the tasteless clothing , the incredibly bad garbage coming out of the music industry , drug proliferation , incredibly bad driving , irresponsible sexual morals , total lack of family responsibility , generations making the same stupid decisions perpetuating the loser life style . It is not up to white America , it has to come from the black community .

 

[William Joyce]

Sitarro has some great points.

However, I would like the right-wing Marxists on this page to take note. If you gave this speech to blacks, they would kill you. It's that simple. You would die. You would not make it out of the meeting hall alive. That's not racist, that's fact.

You wanna keep up the Respectable Republican lie that races can be "made equal"? That there's no difference between the races but "mere skin color"?

Be my guest. Next train for Harlem leaves 10 after the hour. Hop on, Newt Gingrich!

 

[lilcountriegal]

But when you look at the discriminatory practices that are hurtful to minorities, you don't want them resolved

Where, exactly, did I say this??? Please dont put words in my mouth.

What I prefer is equality for all. What you earn is yours. What disgusts me is having to earn everything that I have, while the same is given to others simply based on the color of their skin.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by sitarro

What is a real solution lonevoice ? All I've heard from you is that the collective white people in this country need to sit in front of a mirror like Stuart Smalley and repeat what a bunch of assholes we are because of something others did to people who are all dead and buried many years ago .

Actually, I've said that the oppressive majority often doesn't recognize it's discriminatory policies, in the moment. They only recognize it when they look at it in the past.

Where is the inequality lonevoice , site some examples . I don't see it.

Recommendations for business include:

1) The CEO must communicate visible and continuing commitment to workforce diversity. This in turn can influence the culture of the organization by creating an atmosphere that fully utilizes the talents and capabilities of a diverse workforce .

2) Efforts to achieve workforce diversity should be an integral part of corporate strategic business plans. Competitive employers measure and monitor key business areas such as profits, capital investment, productivity, market share, and quality. Setting goals and timetables for work force diversity is an extension of this business practice which helps organizations measure their progress and growth. Additionally, line managers must be held accountable for progress toward breaking the glass ceiling. That may mean tying their pay and rewards system to accomplishments of diversity objectives.

3) Businesses should use affirmative action as a tool to help ensure that all qualified individuals have equal access and opportunity to compete based on ability and merit. Affirmative action is the deliberate undertaking of positive steps to design and implement procedures that ensures the employment system provides equal opportunity to all. Properly implemented, affirmative action does not mean quotas, allowing preferential treatment or employing or promoting unqualified people. It means opening the system and casting a wide net to recruit, train, and hire people who may not look like what corporate executives have traditionally looked like; who may not think like corporate executives have traditionally thought.

It means promoting opportunities for advancement for people who can contribute effectively to a corporation and, consequently, the nation's economic stability. It means making full use of the rich talent this nation has to offer.
...
It is my hope that business, government, and society at large, will fully utilize all the people, by creating a cohesive, inclusive society where ethnic and gender strengths are valued, and our differences contribute to the common good. A great woman, educator, scholar, and leader, Barbara Jordan said, " What the people want is simple. They want an America as good as its promise."

When glass ceilings are forever shattered, we will have suceeded in using our greatest asset - the people - to their fullest potential. And we will have come a long way to achieving the full promise of our society by making its bounty equally available to all.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/glass.html

Please don't try to take out 1 liners that support your claims. Understand the whole point.

http://www.employmentreview.com/2001-02/features/CNfeat06.asp

http://www.eeoc.gov/stats/jobpat/2000/national.html

Well, that should keep ya busy for awhile...
I'll be calling it a night soon.... so have fun...

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
Where, exactly, did I say this??? Please dont put words in my mouth.

What I prefer is equality for all. What you earn is yours. What disgusts me is having to earn everything that I have, while the same is given to others simply based on the color of their skin.

Good! We agree that those glass ceiling discriminatory practices are disgusting.

Since it's so pervasive and harmful, we can agree to address this issue, however is best appropriate. In a way, that doesn't leave certain groups of people always at the effect of its discriminatory practices.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Since it's so pervasive and harmful, we can agree to address this issue, however is best appropriate. In a way, that doesn't leave certain groups of people always at the effect of its discriminatory practices.

Agreed.. even though I believe we are sitting on opposite ends of the "discriminatory practices" table.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Good! We agree that those glass ceiling discriminatory practices are disgusting.

Since it's so pervasive and harmful, we can agree to address this issue, however is best appropriate. In a way, that doesn't leave certain groups of people always at the effect of its discriminatory practices.

How about trying to work against judging individuals according to perceived group tendencies or race instead of spreading the horror around with discriminitory policy. Frankly you make no sense whatsoever. Your mind is a threat to freedom.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
How about trying to work against judging individuals according to perceived group tendencies or race instead of spreading the horror around with discriminitory policy. Frankly you make no sense whatsoever. Your mind is a threat to freedom.

You want to sit in your little plastic bubble, and ignore the facts. The facts of history and its historical practices, and the implications that has on today. In your plastic bubble, your opinions sound all good.

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by LoneVoice

Recommendations for business include:

1) The CEO must communicate visible and continuing commitment to workforce diversity. This in turn can influence the culture of the organization by creating an atmosphere that fully utilizes the talents and capabilities of a diverse workforce .

2) Efforts to achieve workforce diversity should be an integral part of corporate strategic business plans. Competitive employers measure and monitor key business areas such as profits, capital investment, productivity, market share, and quality. Setting goals and timetables for work force diversity is an extension of this business practice which helps organizations measure their progress and growth. Additionally, line managers must be held accountable for progress toward breaking the glass ceiling. That may mean tying their pay and rewards system to accomplishments of diversity objectives.

3) Businesses should use affirmative action as a tool to help ensure that all qualified individuals have equal access and opportunity to compete based on ability and merit. Affirmative action is the deliberate undertaking of positive steps to design and implement procedures that ensures the employment system provides equal opportunity to all. Properly implemented, affirmative action does not mean quotas, allowing preferential treatment or employing or promoting unqualified people. It means opening the system and casting a wide net to recruit, train, and hire people who may not look like what corporate executives have traditionally looked like; who may not think like corporate executives have traditionally thought.

It means promoting opportunities for advancement for people who can contribute effectively to a corporation and, consequently, the nation's economic stability. It means making full use of the rich talent this nation has to offer.
...
It is my hope that business, government, and society at large, will fully utilize all the people, by creating a cohesive, inclusive society where ethnic and gender strengths are valued, and our differences contribute to the common good. A great woman, educator, scholar, and leader, Barbara Jordan said, " What the people want is simple. They want an America as good as its promise."

When glass ceilings are forever shattered, we will have suceeded in using our greatest asset - the people - to their fullest potential. And we will have come a long way to achieving the full promise of our society by making its bounty equally available to all.

Lone V. ,
There is a business that is following these practices , it is called the U.S.Postal Service . We see how effective they are . Any government agency that you want to name not only follows your guidlines but exceeds them by blatantly discriminating against white faces . The United States government and most city and state governments are the ultimate affirmative action employers and the most bloated ineffectual businesses that exist . That is what happens when socialist try to tell business how to run themselves , the other thing that happens is they leave the country and take the jobs with them .

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
You want to sit in your little plastic bubble, and ignore the facts. The facts of history and its historical practices, and the implications that has on today. In your plastic bubble, your opinions sound all good.

You're here actually advocating racial discrimination to combat racial discrimination. Do you know it's ridiculous or are you just a partisan hack coming here to be an ass? You seem to live in a freakin pop-o-matic dome of illconceived ideology you that think is just groovy, though it's really the oldest recipe there is for gaining power, using class envy, racial envy, fear mongering, glittering generalities, irrational ad hominem attacks. You and your lib friends are completely intellectually and morally bankrupt. What's funny is your idiocy and paradoxical self righteousness about it. Yes, proclaim you stupidity for all to hear. Shout the dogma which belies your ignorance from the highest peak. I'll be here laughing.

 

[thesolution]

I'm a white male. I'm not sure why you would group all Republican's into the category of racist.

Many Democrats, including myself, believe that some legislation created by the Republican leadership and some practices typical of Republican leadership are detrimental to minorities. Some policies seem racist to us. It's the policies, not the policy makers.

My Republican friends who I haven't converted yet, believe in hard work, small government, moral and religious values and strong military presence. A lot of their policies that promote this agenda may hurt blacks and minorities. Most of the laws generally have a nobel cause behind them, but they are discriminative, in real life practice. Just like some programs, like Affirmative Action, are discriminatory towards whites.

Republicans are simple minded, often. I believe that practical and thorough review of laws and how they affect our rights under the constitution would make Republicans better at proposing laws.

Honestly, I believe religious conservatives discriminate against gays and I believe President Bush does as well. There is really no excuse for the current Amendment issue. I'm also strait, but it's a clear overturning of a section of Title VII, sexual discrimination laws. You can't reconcile a new amendment over the existing antidiscrimination laws. That's why the courts can't rule on this. Republicans should get their heads out of their a$$$$ and read the constitution again. I just hope they don't get to the point where I'm not allowed to get married b/c I don't go to church ever week.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by thesolution
Republicans are simple minded, often.

Hmmm, that's quite a statement.