Is carnivorism ethical?

[fncceo]

I'm talking about morality and not about law

Words mean what words mean ... you can kill an animal, you cannot murder an animal.

 

[rupol2000]

Words mean what words mean ... you can kill an animal, you cannot murder an animal.

It seems you are feeble-minded. Every legislation in force does not comply with the same ethics. Slavery was legal in Rome law, are you going to execute those who reject slavery on the basis of Roman law?
What about burning witches according to church law? Meat-eating definitely makes an amoeba out of a person.

 

[fncceo]

Slavery was legal in Rome law,

Yes, slavery was legal, now it is not legal... the legal status of slavery has changed, not the definition.

No one was ever executed in Rome for NOT having slaves. Most people didn't own slaves in Ancient Rome.

 

[rupol2000]

Yes, slavery was legal, now it is not legal... the legal status of slavery has changed, not the definition.

No one was ever executed in Rome for NOT having slaves. Most people didn't own slaves in Ancient Rome.

And what does this have to do with the ethical assessment of slavery?

 

[fncceo]

And what does this have to do with the ethical assessment of slavery?

Legal status change, legal definitions don't.

You can say that killing animals is immoral ... but that doesn't make it murder. It just makes it immoral in your mind.

 

[rupol2000]

You can say that killing animals is immoral ... but that doesn't make it murder. It just makes it immoral in your mind.

This is the typical position of nominalist and Marxist clergy.

The problem arises due to the fact that there is no visible source of morality, it exists independently, in the conscience. Conscience itself is objective and sufficient. It follows from it that one cannot kill someone who does not kill.
They invented their god who supposedly was the source of law and morality, but that was just a lie. This law was needed for their power and not for the truth.

If you think in this way, you can justify anything.

 

[rupol2000]

The hypocrisy of the position of meat eaters on the surface.

What separates a human killer from a herbivore killer? Nothing but the fiction of humanism that supposedly a person's life is worth more than the life of an animal. But this fiction in itself is not based on anything, it is a fraud. There is no consistent system here.

 

[rupol2000]

If, by their logic, a person's life is more valuable than the life of a herbivore, because a person is supposedly more intellectually developed than a herbivore (which has not been proven by anyone either), then why do they not eat the mentally retarded?

So, the morality system of meat-eaters stand on nothing.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Problem is…we reneged big time when we turned living souls into nothing more than another product.

And thus was born the democrat party.

 

[Unkotare]

The hypocrisy of the position of meat eaters on the surface.

What separates a human killer from a herbivore killer? Nothing but the fiction of humanism that supposedly a person's life is worth more than the life of an animal. But this fiction in itself is not based on anything, it is a fraud. There is no consistent system here.

YOUR entire life is based on that "fiction," you hypocrite.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is fuck*ng sophistry. You just invented a different status for worms than for predators, based on the same premises: balance regulation

Bullshit. You have tried to make intestinal worms the equivalent of an entire range of predators. All to justify your denial of the basic biology of an ecosystem.

Keep trying. You failed.

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm talking about morality and not about law

Applying human morality standards to animals is childish.

What an animal does is follow his nature. He evolved to be a predator. That you think he is vile and a murderer, while a herbivore is innocent and loving, is laughable.

 

[WinterBorn]

It is legal to kill predators while hunting.

Yes, it is. And for some predators it is responsible. For others it is simple cruelty.

 

[fncceo]

a person's life is more valuable than the life of a herbivore

A human being is worth more than an animal. Humans are self-aware, self-actualized, and even the least intellectually enabled human has more awareness of self and his place in the universe than non-hominid primates.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It is legal to kill predators while hunting.

Animal predators live the way God designed them. Human predators have a choice

 

[Coyote]

Sorry but of all the non-arguments, that one is by far the WORST. Normally I don’t even bother responding to it because it’s that idiotic. And it’s incredibly disingenuous. Do you mow your lawn? Do you not see the difference in mowing your lawn and slitting the throat of a sentient being (like a pig, for example) that is as intelligent as a three-year-old child?

You miss the entire point here, which is that nature operates by balancing complex systems. You are turning this into a disneyesque emotional dialogue and creating a strawman. You’ve switched tracks now.

Do you kill mosquitos? Ticks? …..now are you going to argue that is somehow different?

Your argument started out with a clearly erroneous claim that we evolved as herbivores, in order to support a vegan ethic. We weren’t…we ate whatever we could our hands on.

Now you are switching to position for not eating meat, and that is a reason that makes sense. The transition of farming into an industrial model has brought about a profound lack of respect and empathy for the creatures we choose to eat. I fully support movements to mandate better treatment for farm animals. Grazers should have pasturage, not mud lots, social animals should have the un crowded company of their species, complex animals like monkeys and many exotics should not be allowed to be kept as pets. And a lot more.

If you want to argue that we should less meat as a society, I agree, we Americans consume far too much with far to little respect for the life that gave us that meal. But you you can’t force a vegan ethic on everyone and claim it is natural and a product of our evolution. What are you going to tell people like indiginous peoples of the far north, who evolved on a diet that consists of mostly meat fat? When they transitioned to an agrarian diet heavy in grains and carbs … they now suffer high rates of obesity and diabetes. It isn’t a one size fits all solution .

 

[Coyote]

A human being is worth more than an animal. Humans are self-aware, self-actualized, and even the least intellectually enabled human has more awareness of self and his place in the universe than non-hominid primates.

I don’t think we can really know that. I am constantly reading some new that another species has done….that astounds me and once again changes the calculus on what it is to be human. The more we learn…the less unique we are in the big picture.

 

[fncceo]

I don’t think we can really know that. I am constantly reading some new that another species has done….that astounds me and once again changes the calculus on what it is to be human. The more we learn…the less unique we are in the big picture.

I will believe that animals are self-aware on par with humans the first time I hear that an animal killed itself because it thought it was too fat.

For now, I will continue to eat cow until I come across a hyper-intelligent cow. At which time, I will apologize sincerely.

 

[rupol2000]

Applying human morality standards to animals is childish.

What an animal does is follow his nature. He evolved to be a predator. That you think he is vile and a murderer, while a herbivore is innocent and loving, is laughable.

All this is too shaky. You think, for example, that a moral monster who eats human flesh is just a criminal who goes against nature, but in fact there is no reason for this, this is also his nature. There is no clear line where a person simply crosses the line of morality and those who do not care about any morality.
This difference is far-fetched, there is no such thing that all people clearly follow reason and moral guidelines, many are concerned only with being caught by the hand, these are wolves in sheep's clothing.

And on the other hand, where did you get the idea that the cow does not experience human feelings when the wolf takes away her calf.

All this is nonsense of propaganda of meat-eaters, there are no foundations there. There is no fundamental difference at all.

 

[rupol2000]

God designed them

Why should anyone care about this, other than slaves who want to earn their obedience a piece of cake in paradise? The noble is worried about the truth, and the god who is against the truth is not the god of the noble.