Zone1 Is communiusm a US obsession ?

[the other mike]

Cleanliness has nothing to do with it. Despite the delusion of "democracy", socialism centralizes too much power in too few hands. And it just isn't necessary.

The development of socialism parallels theocracy in my view. Theocracy developed as governments became jealous of the power held by religious institutions and tried to co-opt that power for themselves. Now they're jealous of the power held by private wealth, and they want that too. It took us hundreds of years to finally figure out that giving government control of religion was a really bad idea. Now we're learning the same lessons about giving government control of the economy. How long will it take this time?

But when our government hires war criminals like Elliott Abrams, it's no wonder folks are skeptical of our intentions when 'spreading our brand of democracy around' so to speak.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Cleanliness has nothing to do with it. Despite the delusion of "democracy", socialism centralizes too much power in too few hands. And it just isn't necessary.

The development of socialism parallels theocracy in my view. Theocracy developed as governments became jealous of the power held by religious institutions and tried to co-opt that power for themselves. Now they're jealous of the power held by private wealth, and they want that too. It took us hundreds of years to finally figure out that giving government control of religion was a really bad idea. Now we're learning the same lessons about giving government control of the economy. How long will it take this time?

I dont agree with that.
Socialism operates in a democratic fraameworl. it will take a different form in every different country.

So if the US is the embodimentof capitalism and, for example, Sweden iis an advert for socialism then they have more in common than not.
Both countries are goerned by laws which in theorymake life bearableand livable for the population.
I dont see how socialism concentrates power any more than any other ideology.

Socialism is exxentially a safety net for people having a hard time. We cant ship them off to Aus or the US any more.

But its miles away from communism.

 

[Mashmont]

Cp

Ive lost count of the times that I have been called a commie on this forum.

Im not a communist and never have been. Im probably a socialist but that bears no relation to communism.

I also see dems described as " Commies" but struggle to make the connection\ Im terms of political views the Dem party is hardly even left leaning. In Uk terms it is far to the right of our Labour party and probably closer to the cameron tories, before the brexit nutters took it over.

The GOP is far more to the right than our tory party today. They havee extreme positions on capital punishment,, womens health and guns taht would not fly over here. In fact they would be the kiss of death in the UK.

But the Dems drink at the same trough as the GOP and are definitely not commies. In fact it is difficult to see any credible left wing entity in the US.


Is it a throwback to the Macarthy era ? Reds under the beds and all that ? Or is it just a catch all insult made by people who are not politically literate ?

Its a word I never hear in this country.
Where are you on the political compass ?

The Political Compass

self-test of your position on 2 political dimensions

www.politicalcompass.org

"Commie" is an apt term for those who support the Marxist objectives. They are enablers and cheerleaders of those who intend to overthrow America.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Ive lost count of the times that I have been called a commie on this forum.

Im not a communist and never have been. Im probably a socialist but that bears no relation to communism.

I also see dems described as " Commies" but struggle to make the connection\ Im terms of political views the Dem party is hardly even left leaning. In Uk terms it is far to the right of our Labour party and probably closer to the cameron tories, before the brexit nutters took it over.

The GOP is far more to the right than our tory party today. They havee extreme positions on capital punishment,, womens health and guns taht would not fly over here. In fact they would be the kiss of death in the UK.

But the Dems drink at the same trough as the GOP and are definitely not commies. In fact it is difficult to see any credible left wing entity in the US.


Is it a throwback to the Macarthy era ? Reds under the beds and all that ? Or is it just a catch all insult made by people who are not politically literate ?

Its a word I never hear in this country.
Where are you on the political compass ?

The Political Compass

self-test of your position on 2 political dimensions

www.politicalcompass.org

I don't call people like yourself Communist, your one of the useful idiots the real communist use to destabilize society. After the collapse and the real Marxist take over you will be the second group to be reeducated or executed.

The goal of Socialism is Communism.
Vladimir Lenin

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't call people like yourself Communist, your one of the useful idiots the real communist use to destabilize society. After the collapse and the real Marxist take over you will be the second group to be reeducated or executed.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Ive lost count of the times that I have been called a commie on this forum.

Im not a communist and never have been. Im probably a socialist but that bears no relation to communism.

I also see dems described as " Commies" but struggle to make the connection\ Im terms of political views the Dem party is hardly even left leaning. In Uk terms it is far to the right of our Labour party and probably closer to the cameron tories, before the brexit nutters took it over.

The GOP is far more to the right than our tory party today. They havee extreme positions on capital punishment,, womens health and guns taht would not fly over here. In fact they would be the kiss of death in the UK.

But the Dems drink at the same trough as the GOP and are definitely not commies. In fact it is difficult to see any credible left wing entity in the US.


Is it a throwback to the Macarthy era ? Reds under the beds and all that ? Or is it just a catch all insult made by people who are not politically literate ?

Its a word I never hear in this country.
Where are you on the political compass ?

The Political Compass

self-test of your position on 2 political dimensions

www.politicalcompass.org

Im probably a socialist but that bears no relation to communism

Per Lenin;
The goal of Socialism is Communism.

Quotes by Vladimir Lenin

The best quotations-phrases-citations of Vladimir Lenin, 1870-1924, Soviet revolutionary & leader

best-quotations.com

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Im probably a socialist but that bears no relation to communism

Per Lenin;
The goal of Socialism is Communism.

Quotes by Vladimir Lenin

The best quotations-phrases-citations of Vladimir Lenin, 1870-1924, Soviet revolutionary & leader

best-quotations.com

Where has that ever happened ?

 

[JustAGuy1]

Where has that ever happened ?

You can't be that uninformed, it's nearly impossible.

This tradition of tight centralization, with decision-making concentrated at the highest party levels, reached new dimensions under Joseph Stalin. As many of these archival documents show, there was little input from below. The party elite determined the goals of the state and the means of achieving them in almost complete isolation from the people. They believed that the interests of the individual were to be sacrificed to those of the state, which was advancing a sacred social task. Stalin's “revolution from above” sought to build socialism by means of forced collectivization and industrialization, programs that entailed tremendous human suffering and loss of life.

Internal Workings of the Soviet Union - Revelations from the Russian Archives | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Lenin, Stalin and the Bolsheviks used ruthless methods to surprises political rivals with tight centralization and secret police to enforce power with terror.

www.loc.gov

.....and it evolved to.....c'mon.....you can do it!!!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You can't be that uninformed, it's nearly impossible.

This tradition of tight centralization, with decision-making concentrated at the highest party levels, reached new dimensions under Joseph Stalin. As many of these archival documents show, there was little input from below. The party elite determined the goals of the state and the means of achieving them in almost complete isolation from the people. They believed that the interests of the individual were to be sacrificed to those of the state, which was advancing a sacred social task. Stalin's “revolution from above” sought to build socialism by means of forced collectivization and industrialization, programs that entailed tremendous human suffering and loss of life.

Internal Workings of the Soviet Union - Revelations from the Russian Archives | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Lenin, Stalin and the Bolsheviks used ruthless methods to surprises political rivals with tight centralization and secret police to enforce power with terror.

www.loc.gov

.....and it evolved to.....c'mon.....you can do it!!!

The bolsheviks went straight to communism. i am not aware of any nation moving from socialism to communism. They have had ample opportunity.
Only in the US is this seen as a possibiility. Its part of your obsession.

 

[dblack]

The bolsheviks went straight to communism. i am not aware of any nation moving from socialism to communism. They have had ample opportunity.
Only in the US is this seen as a possibiility. Its part of your obsession.

Whatever. Your claim that socialism "bears no relation to communism" just doesn't make sense. You might want to draw a distinction between the two, and that's fine. But they're very much related. They're both based on core concepts that are incompatible with free markets and free society.

 

[dblack]

I dont agree with that.
Socialism operates in a democratic fraameworl. it will take a different form in every different country.

So what? My opposition, to both socialism and communism is that they apply majority rule to decisions that don't need conformity and consensus.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Whatever. Your claim that socialism "bears no relation to communism" just doesn't make sense. You might want to draw a distinction between the two, and that's fine. But they're very much related. They're both based on core concepts that are incompatible with free markets and free society.

I cant agree. I am a share owning, home owning socialist. Neever been attracted to living in a communist state.
I just want a fairer society,

 

[surada]

I don't call people like yourself Communist, your one of the useful idiots the real communist use to destabilize society. After the collapse and the real Marxist take over you will be the second group to be reeducated or executed.

The goal of Socialism is Communism.
Vladimir Lenin

Have you ever been to Scandinavia? They are prosperous, stable, have a higher standard of living and little crime.

 

[dblack]

I cant agree. I am a share owning, home owning socialist. Neever been attracted to living in a communist state.
I just want a fairer society,

That's fine. But read a definition or two. Here's the first one that popped up:

"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

That's the part that I oppose. And it's a premise that's shared by communism.

I think socialists like to tell themselves that the only reason people oppose socialism is because they think it will produce a totalitarian state, like Soviet Russia. I oppose it because it replaces corporations with government.

 

[surada]

That's fine. But read a definition or two. Here's the first one that popped up:

"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

That's the part that I oppose. And it's a premise that's shared by communism.

I think socialists like to tell themselves that the only reason people oppose socialism is because they think it will produce a totalitarian state, like Soviet Russia. I oppose it because it replaces corporations with government.

Scandinavia certainly is successful.

 

[dblack]

Scandinavia certainly is successful.

Ok.

 

[surada]

Ok.

I have spent a lot of time there over the years. It seems to me that they have capitalism tempered with socialism. Very nice countries... Clean and pretty without the rabid gun culture and the macho bullshit about "rugged individualism".

 

[JustAGuy1]

The bolsheviks went straight to communism. i am not aware of any nation moving from socialism to communism. They have had ample opportunity.
Only in the US is this seen as a possibiility. Its part of your obsession.

I'll go with Marx, Lenin and Stalin on this one.

 

[dblack]

I have spent a lot of time there over the years. It seems to me that they have capitalism tempered with socialism. Very nice countries... Clean and pretty without the rabid gun culture and the macho bullshit about "rugged individualism".

That's great. But I can't care. It doesn't matter to me whether socialism is "successful" (however you're defining that). I still oppose it because it replaces corporations with government. If a corporation pisses me off, I can tell them to fly a kite and find another, or come up with some other way to satisfy my needs entirely. When government takes over, that option is gone. You'll take whatever the majority decides is best. If you disagree, too bad.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

That's great. But I can't care. It doesn't matter to me whether socialism is "successful" (however you're defining that). I still oppose it because it replaces corporations with government. If a corporation pisses me off, I can tell them to fly a kite and find another, or come up with some other way to satisfy my needs entirely. When government takes over, that option is gone. You'll take whatever the majority decides is best. If you disagree, too bad.

Which neatly brings us back to the OP. Its an American obsession. Nowhere else in the world even usses the word commie.