Is Free Market Capitalism the answer to all our economic woes?

[TNHarley]

Oi! I'm WELSH, ya wank!

He's mildly retarded....and look the other way when he begins his end-zone dance...it's disturbing to say the least.

 

[Czernobog]

Oh. I misunderstood. I agree. Although I think part of the problem is adapting that protectionist mindset to a 21st century global economy. How do you suggest that could be done?

It cant be. Most people producing info (economists, MSM) are globalists. They don't want America to be great again. They want the world to be great at our expense.
Look at our trade deals. We got less rich while third world shitholes got less poor.

Okay. Let's back this train up a second, and see if we can agree on a few points.

First, would you, or would you not agree that between shipping technology, and the advent of the internet, we do, in fact, exist in a global economy?

I think exporting is a MAJOR factor in our economy, yes.

LOL! That's a rater p;olitically adept wy of agreeing with me, without committing to agree with me. Nicely done. So, I'll take that as agreement.

So. Point 2: You would agree that our primary goal in economic policy - both domestic, and foreign - should be to protect the interests of American industry, the environment, consumers, and labour force, yes?

generally, yes

So, the question then, is how do we achieve that protection of American interests, while still participating in the global economy?

 

[owebo]

It cant be. Most people producing info (economists, MSM) are globalists. They don't want America to be great again. They want the world to be great at our expense.
Look at our trade deals. We got less rich while third world shitholes got less poor.

Okay. Let's back this train up a second, and see if we can agree on a few points.

First, would you, or would you not agree that between shipping technology, and the advent of the internet, we do, in fact, exist in a global economy?

I think exporting is a MAJOR factor in our economy, yes.

LOL! That's a rater p;olitically adept wy of agreeing with me, without committing to agree with me. Nicely done. So, I'll take that as agreement.

So. Point 2: You would agree that our primary goal in economic policy - both domestic, and foreign - should be to protect the interests of American industry, the environment, consumers, and labour force, yes?

generally, yes

So, the question then, is how do we achieve that protection of American interests, while still participating in the global economy?

The free market...duh.....

 

[Tom Horn]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

 

[Tom Horn]

Oi! I'm WELSH, ya wank!

He's mildly retarded....and look the other way when he begins his end-zone dance...it's disturbing to say the least.

Marco won his primary yesterday and is on his way back to the Senate.....by 2020 Trump will be bored and want to return to his gold-plated penthouse and Marco will be the next President.

 

[owebo]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

I agree....

But,mi take exception to your use of fair....there is nothing fair about the free market, it's survival of the fittest,mwhich makes it work....

 

[Czernobog]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

You sure about that? Look at the label of 10 random hats...nicnacs...even furniture. Take note of where it's "manufactured". See, the problem isn't China selling us their cheaply made shit. It's US companies having their shit made cheaply in China, then shipping it back here to sell to consumers.

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

 

[Tom Horn]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

You sure about that? Look at the label of 10 random hats...nicnacs...even furniture. Take note of where it's "manufactured". See, the problem isn't China selling us their cheaply made shit. It's US companies having their shit made cheaply in China, then shipping it back here to sell to consumers.

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

Asked and answered earlier....look back a page or two. As to the rest of it, we can make our own steel, cars, textiles, electronics, oil, and furniture....When we did, we were the best in the world at all those things and can be again. Beware of the country club GOPers and elitist democRATS...they're quite happy and heavily invested with the way things are now. We really have no choice...when the debt hits the tipping-point ($25T) we'll no longer be able to defend ourselves.

 

[Pilate]

Freedom, in general, isn't a solution to a problem. It won't necessarily produce better outcomes.

I disagree with that. Freedom = happiness

Hedonism does not make for healthy societies.

 

[dblack]

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

Don't buy their products.

 

[dblack]

Freedom, in general, isn't a solution to a problem. It won't necessarily produce better outcomes.

I disagree with that. Freedom = happiness

Hedonism does not make for healthy societies.

You equate freedom with hedonism?

 

[owebo]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

You sure about that? Look at the label of 10 random hats...nicnacs...even furniture. Take note of where it's "manufactured". See, the problem isn't China selling us their cheaply made shit. It's US companies having their shit made cheaply in China, then shipping it back here to sell to consumers.

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

Eliminate the EPA...as Trump is proposing......

 

[Czernobog]

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

Don't buy their products.

Sure...let's en masse stop shopping at Wal-Mart. That sounds brilliant, in theory. How likely do you think it actually is in practice?

 

[Pilate]

I would submit that it is not. When one looks at our economic history, the United States enjoyed its greatest period of growth, not because of unregulated free market capitalism. As Cambridge economist Professor Ha Joon Chang notes, America was the most protectionist country in the world from 1830 up until World War Two. In fact, as Chang outlines in his book 'Bad Samaritans' every industrialized economy on the planet grew astronomically by strictly regulating markets, government investment and the protectionism of key industries through nascent stages of development.

It might also be pointed out that, in modern times, every nation of the EU that adopted free market reforms under IMF 'structural adjustment' policies all failed miserably and poverty actually increased.

Now, don't misunderstand me. That is not to say that I am a supporter of communism, or socialism. Rather, that it seems that a blended version of capitalism, mixed with a healthy dose of governmental oversight is the most effective way to build a thriving economy. Now, for those who submit that they agree, then where do they suggest that the "line" should be drawn? What is "reasonable' government oversight?

I agree that oversight is needed as in our 100% for profit world, greed and materialism will undoubtedly take hold if not kept in check via certain methods. I can't think of any specific checks and oversights I'd pass and I'd advise dealing with firms and companies on an individual case by case basis. Perhaps firms that depend very very very heavily on government support or are found to be dangerous to public wellbeing or utterly corrupt should be nationalized at least partially.

 

[Czernobog]

The free market...duh.....

Think FAIR MARKET where the currency and import cheaters can't rip us off anymore. It's very simple...get out of the WTO, NAFTA, tell China and Japan to either abide by the rules we've had to follow or they no longer have access to our markets....they'll fold like a cheap card table.

You sure about that? Look at the label of 10 random hats...nicnacs...even furniture. Take note of where it's "manufactured". See, the problem isn't China selling us their cheaply made shit. It's US companies having their shit made cheaply in China, then shipping it back here to sell to consumers.

So, what do we do to incentivise US companies to quit using Chinese manufacturing?

Asked and answered earlier....look back a page or two. As to the rest of it, we can make our own steel, cars, textiles, electronics, oil, and furniture....When we did, we were the best in the world at all those things and can be again. Beware of the country club GOPers and elitist democRATS...they're quite happy and heavily invested with the way things are now. We really have no choice...when the debt hits the tipping-point ($25T) we'll no longer be able to defend ourselves.

I'm not being a dick, but can you give me a post #? I seem to have missed the post you're referring to...

 

[whitehall]

Are we going to hear the tired old ludicrous argument from quasi-socialists about how well Europe is doing financially? Notice how the left wing idiots add "free market" to the word capitalism when they don't even understand what free market means?

 

[Pilate]

Freedom, in general, isn't a solution to a problem. It won't necessarily produce better outcomes.

I disagree with that. Freedom = happiness

Hedonism does not make for healthy societies.

You equate freedom with hedonism?

Do you equate freedom with happiness? And is being happy more concerning to you than various other concerns?

 

[Tom Horn]

Eliminate the EPA...as Trump is proposing......

So the assholes can pour their poison into our air and rivers again? Not a chance. You cut back on their extremes by taking over the agency but the EPA is a useful watchdog.

 

[Iceweasel]

So, the question then, is how do we achieve that protection of American interests, while still participating in the global economy?

It's called trade negotiations. And we need to stop idiots that couldn't run an espresso stand from working for us.

 

[Czernobog]

I would submit that it is not. When one looks at our economic history, the United States enjoyed its greatest period of growth, not because of unregulated free market capitalism. As Cambridge economist Professor Ha Joon Chang notes, America was the most protectionist country in the world from 1830 up until World War Two. In fact, as Chang outlines in his book 'Bad Samaritans' every industrialized economy on the planet grew astronomically by strictly regulating markets, government investment and the protectionism of key industries through nascent stages of development.

It might also be pointed out that, in modern times, every nation of the EU that adopted free market reforms under IMF 'structural adjustment' policies all failed miserably and poverty actually increased.

Now, don't misunderstand me. That is not to say that I am a supporter of communism, or socialism. Rather, that it seems that a blended version of capitalism, mixed with a healthy dose of governmental oversight is the most effective way to build a thriving economy. Now, for those who submit that they agree, then where do they suggest that the "line" should be drawn? What is "reasonable' government oversight?

I agree that oversight is needed as in our 100% for profit world, greed and materialism will undoubtedly take hold if not kept in check via certain methods. I can't think of any specific checks and oversights I'd pass and I'd advise dealing with firms and companies on an individual case by case basis. Perhaps firms that depend very very very heavily on government support or are found to be dangerous to public wellbeing or utterly corrupt should be nationalized at least partially.

I actually suggested that with Pharma, on another forum, and it was pointed out that such nationalization would end up being a diplomatic nightmare. How do you get necessary drugs - antibiotics, etc - to countries that we are not allied with. Iran, for instance. We, as a government, are not allowed to do business with them. Period. So, if we nationalized our pharmaceutical industry, how does Iran get its drugs? It wouldn't be long before the world found itself embroiled in the "Drug War"; a war not for land, or ideology, but for control of the pharmaceutical industry.