Is gay marriage the most important issue in the USA?

[beagle9]

I don't want 2% of the population dictating what the 98% must believe. Do you get that?

How can anyone dictate what you must believe?
What they are stating and arguing is that they should be treated as equals under the law. We as citizens do not have the power to dictate to anyone what they must believe. That strawman does not hunt.

The dictation comes when one is forced to bake a cake or else...

Or else not sell to the public at large. Public access means if you open your doors to the public, you can't discriminate who you sell too. That is not a dictate that you have to sell to the public... nor is it a dictate that you can't sell privately. It is a law that you can't harm people by discriminating against them. No different than age discrimination laws.

You may feel you are being harmed by not being allowed to harm others... but I assure you that liberty is not the liberty to harm others.

At some point society has got to stand up for some kind of morals and standards in which to live by, and of course believe in, and it has done so, but these days a few want to tear all that down in order to accommodate what it is that (they?) are (pushing) as a minority for whom are wanting to dictate for others now to have to allow for and/or that they must be forced to believe in, but society at large is pushing back, so it will be interesting to see where it all ends up.

Correct.. and the decision was to make public sales, non-discriminatory. This because no one should be pushed out of a venue that is selling to the public based on skin color, age, gender, and yes perhaps soon even sexual orientation. You may have a desire to make sure the black folks or the gay folks don't have access to your products but if so... guess what? Your products are not wanted by the public. If you want to be a homophobe or a racist your gonna have to do it PRIVATELY, or in the PRESS. You can say what you want but you can't harm people. It has been decided that limiting access to the public marketplace is a harm. Please make your argument that limiting access to the public marketplace is not a harm. Explain how you would not be harmed if you were personally blocked from purchasing every type product sold to the public in the USA.

The harm goes both ways, but you are biased in that you have chosen one side of the issue. Being closed minded and not seeing all harm involved says much about your rational on the matter.

 

[RKMBrown]

How can anyone dictate what you must believe?
What they are stating and arguing is that they should be treated as equals under the law. We as citizens do not have the power to dictate to anyone what they must believe. That strawman does not hunt.

The dictation comes when one is forced to bake a cake or else...

Or else not sell to the public at large. Public access means if you open your doors to the public, you can't discriminate who you sell too. That is not a dictate that you have to sell to the public... nor is it a dictate that you can't sell privately. It is a law that you can't harm people by discriminating against them. No different than age discrimination laws.

You may feel you are being harmed by not being allowed to harm others... but I assure you that liberty is not the liberty to harm others.

At some point society has got to stand up for some kind of morals and standards in which to live by, and of course believe in, and it has done so, but these days a few want to tear all that down in order to accommodate what it is that (they?) are (pushing) as a minority for whom are wanting to dictate for others now to have to allow for and/or that they must be forced to believe in, but society at large is pushing back, so it will be interesting to see where it all ends up.

Correct.. and the decision was to make public sales, non-discriminatory. This because no one should be pushed out of a venue that is selling to the public based on skin color, age, gender, and yes perhaps soon even sexual orientation. You may have a desire to make sure the black folks or the gay folks don't have access to your products but if so... guess what? Your products are not wanted by the public. If you want to be a homophobe or a racist your gonna have to do it PRIVATELY, or in the PRESS. You can say what you want but you can't harm people. It has been decided that limiting access to the public marketplace is a harm. Please make your argument that limiting access to the public marketplace is not a harm. Explain how you would not be harmed if you were personally blocked from purchasing every type product sold to the public in the USA.

The harm goes both ways, but you are biased in that you have chosen one side of the issue. Being closed minded and not seeing all harm involved says much about your rational on the matter.

I agree that there is a tangible harm that goes with being personally blocked from purchasing a for public sale product. I also agree that the people who would commit such harm are determined to demand that they are being harmed when they are not allowed to harm their customers in this tangible way. However, I do not hold weight to the argument that not being allowed to harm someone is a tangible harm. What is the harm, a blow to ego? If a blow to ego is "harm" then you might as well tear down free speech as well cause free speech is used to make that harm on people day in and day out, no?

If your religion says you can't sell to everyone in the public... then don't open a business for selling to public. Open only for private sales.

 

[Gadawg73]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

 

[mikegriffith1]

A good article on the pseudo-science behind the "born that way" claim:

Science vs. the Gay Gene

 

[Seawytch]

A good article on the pseudo-science behind the "born that way" claim:

Science vs. the Gay Gene

And what peer reviewed journal did this appear in?

And one of the authors was fired for diddling boys.

 

[Gadawg73]

A good article on the pseudo-science behind the "born that way" claim:

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Tell us all about how you chose your sexual orientation. Choice means you went over all your options, investigating and contemplating all of them before you made your choice.
So tell us how long did you contemplate liking cock versus pussy. What was the determining factor that made you choose?
I believe you. It did not happen that way with me as I never thought about any choice of cock but if you say it did with you, you would know better than I.
Not in a million years here Mike. I was born straight attracted to women. Unlike you I never had cock as one of my choices.

 

[Redfish]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

 

[Redfish]

A good article on the pseudo-science behind the "born that way" claim:

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Tell us all about how you chose your sexual orientation. Choice means you went over all your options, investigating and contemplating all of them before you made your choice.
So tell us how long did you contemplate liking cock versus pussy. What was the determining factor that made you choose?
I believe you. It did not happen that way with me as I never thought about any choice of cock but if you say it did with you, you would know better than I.
Not in a million years here Mike. I was born straight attracted to women. Unlike you I never had cock as one of my choices.

You are almost getting it. Do you want pre-pubescent kids taught that they can choose when their hormones begin to flow? That is the issue here, whether our kids are taught that they can go either way, or both, when they reach puberty.

I think you are smart enough to realize that that would not be good for society.

 

[Seawytch]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

The SCOTUS will rule by majority vote. Stop whining.

And the Feds can still enforce their laws (and still are) despite what the states have done.

 

[Seawytch]

A good article on the pseudo-science behind the "born that way" claim:

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Tell us all about how you chose your sexual orientation. Choice means you went over all your options, investigating and contemplating all of them before you made your choice.
So tell us how long did you contemplate liking cock versus pussy. What was the determining factor that made you choose?
I believe you. It did not happen that way with me as I never thought about any choice of cock but if you say it did with you, you would know better than I.
Not in a million years here Mike. I was born straight attracted to women. Unlike you I never had cock as one of my choices.

You are almost getting it. Do you want pre-pubescent kids taught that they can choose when their hormones begin to flow? That is the issue here, whether our kids are taught that they can go either way, or both, when they reach puberty.

I think you are smart enough to realize that that would not be good for society.

They go the way they are born whether you tell them not to or not.

Choosing when you become hormonal? Come on Fishy, you're getting deranged and ridiculous now.

 

[RKMBrown]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

Majority is a very broad term. It takes much more than a simple majority to amend it and much more than a simple majority enacted it.

 

[Redfish]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

Majority is a very broad term. It takes much more than a simple majority to amend it and much more than a simple majority enacted it.

Yes, technically a majority is 50.1%, and yes a constitutional amendment would require 38 states to ratify it.

My point is that in every case minority rights have been established by some form of majority vote.

Would you prefer a system where the minority made such decisions?

Society as a whole should decide issues like these, not the most vocal minority voice.

 

[RKMBrown]

True liberty is standing up and defending equal rights for those you may despise the most. The Constitution was written on the foundation of the rights of the individual, never the mob rule majority.

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

Majority is a very broad term. It takes much more than a simple majority to amend it and much more than a simple majority enacted it.

Yes, technically a majority is 50.1%, and yes a constitutional amendment would require 38 states to ratify it.

My point is that in every case minority rights have been established by some form of majority vote.

Would you prefer a system where the minority made such decisions?

Society as a whole should decide issues like these, not the most vocal minority voice.

I'm sorry where did we vote as a majority to take away the rights of minorities to marry? What amendment was that? Also can you show me the amendment to the constitution that gives any group the right to get married?

The right to "life" exists period. Getting married is a part of life.. period. Get over it.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Come on people. We have some real problems in this country

18 trillion in debt
half the country on some form of govt handout
deficit spending every year
no confidence in congress or the president
the mid east burning
radical islam killing thousands because or religion
more americans in poverty than ever before
hundreds of trillions in unfunded liabilities
racial violence in our cities

and we spend hours arguing about gay marriage???? WTF is wrong with us? And yes, I am guilty of it too.

I have made my last post on a gay thread. I hope many of you will follow suit. Let the court do its job and live with the rulings

We have much more important issues to deal with than whether two gays or lesbians can call their union a marriage.

Only important to closeted gays trying to cinvince the world (including themselves) they aren't in fact gay.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The more you act to deny gays what they want, more everyone assumes you must be gay.

"I'm not gay! I reject and deny everything gays want! Who else but someone not gay would do that?"

Someone closeted and in denial springs readily to mind. I'm not into BDSMD/s so don't involve myself with their stuff. I don't oppose it. I don't spend any time at all thinking about it. That's how someone not into something should be. Not spending every waking moment protesting it.

 

[Redfish]

there is a vast difference between mob rule (Baltimore) and majority rule (democracy). It amazes me that intelligent people like you don't get it.

Minority rights are established and enforced by majority vote, not by minority dictate.

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

Majority is a very broad term. It takes much more than a simple majority to amend it and much more than a simple majority enacted it.

Yes, technically a majority is 50.1%, and yes a constitutional amendment would require 38 states to ratify it.

My point is that in every case minority rights have been established by some form of majority vote.

Would you prefer a system where the minority made such decisions?

Society as a whole should decide issues like these, not the most vocal minority voice.

I'm sorry where did we vote as a majority to take away the rights of minorities to marry? What amendment was that? Also can you show me the amendment to the constitution that gives any group the right to get married?

The right to "life" exists period. Getting married is a part of life.. period. Get over it.

Thats your opinion and you have the right to express it. Others do not share those opinions and they also have the right to express their opinions and beliefs.

We disagree on this. There is nothing wrong with that. I do not have to accept your opinions and you do not have to accept mine. BUT, we need to be tolerant of those who do not think as we do.

Its that tolerance that is missing in the debate on this topic.

 

[Redfish]

Come on people. We have some real problems in this country

18 trillion in debt
half the country on some form of govt handout
deficit spending every year
no confidence in congress or the president
the mid east burning
radical islam killing thousands because or religion
more americans in poverty than ever before
hundreds of trillions in unfunded liabilities
racial violence in our cities

and we spend hours arguing about gay marriage???? WTF is wrong with us? And yes, I am guilty of it too.

I have made my last post on a gay thread. I hope many of you will follow suit. Let the court do its job and live with the rulings

We have much more important issues to deal with than whether two gays or lesbians can call their union a marriage.

Only important to closeted gays trying to cinvince the world (including themselves) they aren't in fact gay.

What a foolish comment.

 

[Redfish]

The more you act to deny gays what they want, more everyone assumes you must be gay.

"I'm not gay! I reject and deny everything gays want! Who else but someone not gay would do that?"

Someone closeted and in denial springs readily to mind. I'm not into BDSMD/s so don't involve myself with their stuff. I don't oppose it. I don't spend any time at all thinking about it. That's how someone not into something should be. Not spending every waking moment protesting it.

So your agenda is to demonize and insult anyone who does not share your beliefs? Got it !

 

[RKMBrown]

No, minority rights and all rights are enforced by the rule of law under The United States Constitution. NO state law trumps The Constitution and many state laws are often ruled unconstitutional.
That is what this case is all about.
No one can vote away or establish by vote the rights of anyone if it conflicts with Constitution which is the supreme law of the land..

The constitution was enacted by majority vote. Minority rights are always put in place by majority vote in this country. Except for unborn humans who apparently have no rights.

and you are wrong about states and federal law. Pot is illegal federally but legal in several states.

Majority is a very broad term. It takes much more than a simple majority to amend it and much more than a simple majority enacted it.

Yes, technically a majority is 50.1%, and yes a constitutional amendment would require 38 states to ratify it.

My point is that in every case minority rights have been established by some form of majority vote.

Would you prefer a system where the minority made such decisions?

Society as a whole should decide issues like these, not the most vocal minority voice.

I'm sorry where did we vote as a majority to take away the rights of minorities to marry? What amendment was that? Also can you show me the amendment to the constitution that gives any group the right to get married?

The right to "life" exists period. Getting married is a part of life.. period. Get over it.

Thats your opinion and you have the right to express it. Others do not share those opinions and they also have the right to express their opinions and beliefs.

We disagree on this. There is nothing wrong with that. I do not have to accept your opinions and you do not have to accept mine. BUT, we need to be tolerant of those who do not think as we do.

Its that tolerance that is missing in the debate on this topic.

You're idea of tolerance, is I let you be intolerant and abusive of gay people's rights. To be tolerant of intolerance is to be a willing collaborator of intolerance.

You are an authoritarian... the direct opposite of libertarian. Given that you like to be a libertarian for your own rights, I'll keep reminding you of the irony of hypocrisy of your stance in this regard.

 

[Redfish]

The intolerance of liberals is quite evident in this thread.