Is healthcare a right? why or why not?

[Wiseacre]

It's not a right. It's an obligation.

IMHO, it's also a personal responsibility to take care of yourself and your family.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sure everyone has a right to health care, just as they have a right to an automobile. Just as long as they pay for it and keep their grubby paws out of my wallet.

 

[Oddball]

I do not see how you can have a right to someone else's knowledge, ability, and skill.

That's what I was getting at, in my point about a right not imposing an obligation onto anyone else.

Thanks for helping with your bringing of brevity and clarity.

 

[Listening]

It's not a right. It's an obligation.

IMHO, it's also a personal responsibility to take care of yourself and your family.

And what you are saying is that it is an obligation to yourself and your family.

What I also agree on is that people should have reasonable access.

That does not mean universal health care. It means getting government OUT of the system. We don't have a free market system now.

 

[madasheck]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

 

[dblack]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

What question is that answering?

 

[Listening]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

That is not an answer to the question that was asked.

Considering your signature....I can see how you get confused.

 

[madasheck]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

I guess I have to explain common language to the righties. Is this thread not called "Is healthcare a right? why or why not?"? This isn't "Jeopardy!," you know.

 

[Gadawg73]

Health care is a right. Housing is a right. Cell phone is a right. Food is a right. Transportation is a right. Retirement income is a right. Income to live on is a right. Jobs are a right. Getting a trophy at the end of the year even if my team came in last place is a right, a computer is a right, education is a right.
If I left something out, someone please help me here, as I am sure that is a right also.

 

[Gadawg73]

Doctors should provide free health care as that is a right.
My neighbor is an auto mechanic. I demand free brake job and transmission service as that is a right.
My dentist has 200K in loans on his business but since health care is a right I have a right to free care.

 

[Listening]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

I guess I have to explain common language to the righties. Is this thread not called "Is healthcare a right? why or why not?"? This isn't "Jeopardy!," you know.

And what or how is your claim that lack of it causes more problems supposed to support the concpet that it is a right ?

It might be the smart thing to do....but that is still light years away from making it a right.

 

[frazzledgear]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

I guess I have to explain common language to the righties. Is this thread not called "Is healthcare a right? why or why not?"? This isn't "Jeopardy!," you know.

And you think your statement somehow answered that question? Maybe someone needs to explain the real definitions of words to you.

1. Is healthcare a right or not? That is a yes or no answer. Pretty simple.

2. Why or why not? Your comment doesn't answer jackshit on that one. Constipation causes more problem than not too. Mosquito bites cause more problems than not too. Still don't answer jackshit about whether a box of Exlax and a can of "Off" are also "rights", does it?

Liberals absolutely do NOT understand the meaning of rights. Rights are not a list of goods and services people think they will get for free if they demand government just GIVE it to them. Your rights do NOT come from government in the first place! If government "gives" you your rights, then government can damn well take them away anytime just as easily. Which means they were never rights to begin with but only government provided privileges. GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE SOURCE OF OUR RIGHTS! So it can't GIVE you health care as a "right" because government can't GIVE you ANY of your rights in the first place!

It should scare everyone here that we have fellow citizens who haven't a clue about our real rights! Because if you don't know where they are and where the hell they came from in the first place then you sure won't notice when they disappear, will you? (Which would please some people a lot if we as Americans forget where and what our REAL rights are while they dangle shiny toys at us and pretend they are "rights" instead.) We have a significant number of younger people who suffer under the delusion that our rights are GIFTS from government! That the Bill of Rights is merely a list of those things we want government to GIVE us. This belief is also how someone could even put "health care" and "rights" in the same fucking sentence in the first place! If you don't understand what are rights in the first place, that makes it pretty easy to claim just about any good or service you want is a "right" too! Oh, and a "right" to demand someone else foot the bill for it of course!

REAL rights are CLAIMED -and government ordered to not INTERFERE with the exercise of these rights. Government is NOT ordered to "provide" them to us and it isn't ordered to help you exercise them either. It is merely ordered to not interfere with the free exercise of these rights by the people. Rights WE THE PEOPLE HAVE CLAIMED FOR OURSELVES and forbidden government from interfering with or restricting. Government is not obligated to HELP us exercise our rights -but it is not allowed to interfere with our ability to do so. We do not demand our rights FROM government because it isn't something that can come FROM government in the first place! You either understand why these rights we CLAIMED for ourselves are critically necessary in order to be FREE -or you don't. But the ones who don't understand the difference are dangerous and scare the shit out of me! They are people who make it clear they are willing to not only sell off their own freedom at a very cheap price, but insist they have a "right" to sell off that of everyone else too -including unborn generations. Something past generations made sure they didn't do to them because it wasn't their right either.

1. Health care is a not a right because your rights never include the services or assistance of or work or the fruits of labor of another human being. PERIOD. Not ever. You can't get health care without someone else WORKING to provide it. You don't have a right to the WORK of that person -PERIOD. You don't have a "right" to demand government literally enslave a segment of the population because you have chosen to overvalue their services. That is YOUR problem -not theirs. You don't have a "right" to demand everyone else foot the bill and pay for the service you want just because you have decided to place a ridiculous and unreasonable value on it. Because again, the rest of us aren't your slaves either and you aren't entitled to the fruits of my labor and the money I busted my ass to earn.

2. Your REAL rights do not involve any other human beings. They involve what YOU can do, what YOU can say, what YOU believe -without government interfering with or preventing you from doing, saying or believing. Because THESE are the tools one needs in order to live as a FREE HUMAN BEING. These are the tools everyone needs to exist as a free person -someone with the RIGHT to make of his life what he will for better or ill. You can't do that unless you have the RIGHTS to run your own life as YOU see fit. Not as a pack of arrogant ruling elites see fit. There are people who place no real value on their own freedom -and they have that right. But they have NO right to demand I value my own no more than they do theirs. They have NO right to demand I forfeit MY rights just because they are willing to sell off their own. They have NO right to sell off that of my children just because they have no problem selling off those of their own children.

3. The first two are already enough on their own but the third is just as important too. Health care isn't a right because it isn't something universally needed by all people in order to be FREE. In fact, universal health care guarantees you will never live in freedom again but as the government owned slave you chose to be when you forfeited your real rights for "health care". What proponents AREN'T telling you is "if you want this shiny toy, it means giving government massive, unprecedented powers that can only come by stripping them from YOU -FOREVER. Along with those of your children and their children etc" When did they give you that right to sell off their real rights? It is a colossal, massive and truly deceptive trade-off -and dirt cheap prices. And once having traded off your REAL rights for such a cheap price, it will be much, much harder to ever get them back again -peacefully, that is. Powers you will lose right down to the minutiae of your life with government then having the "right" to tell you what you may eat and drink, which vices are government approved and which are not, what hobbies are government approved and which are not - and punish you for failing to abide by them. Always in the name of saying it isn't FAIR that taxpayers are paying for your medical care when YOU didn't live the way THEY wanted you to. Even if it means denying you access to health care treatments even though YOU actually paid for them too. Look how many people think smokers should be denied cancer treatments even now. Even though THEY paid for that insurance too. And how many think overweight people or alcoholics or drug abusers should all be denied treatment even NOW -ANYONE who isn't living by the rules made by a pack of ARROGANT ASSHOLE ELITES have decided only what THEY decide will be the ONLY acceptable way to live. THAT is the power you sell off -and in reality, it is just the beginning of the sell off, not the end of it. Sorry -you ain't selling MINE without a big fight buddy.

Goods and services produced by others are NOT rights -and isn't it interesting that the goods every one of us MUST have in order to live -aren't "rights" whatsoever. We all NEED food to exist -but we don't demand government just GIVE it to us all. We all NEED shelter from the elements but we don't demand government just GIVE a roof over our head and just GIVE clothing to us all. We don't because people who can provide these things for themselves are expected to do so and only those who cannot are provided food and shelter. Yet no one is complaining that the rich eat a better quality of food, wear better quality clothing and get a better quality of housing than those on the dole being handed them at taxpayer expense. We don't all equally need medical care though -and like any other service and still more than 85% of the population even with the overvaluation of the service -are able to provide it for themselves. We can't figure out how to help those who NEED it in order to LIVE but can't provide it for themselves only in THIS instance -but managed to figure that out when it comes to the REAL necessities of life? WTF? We bred a lot of really stupid people then. Frankly they deserve nothing more than mediocrity and one thing the left admires -is mediocrity. So much so they would destroy a system entirely that the vast majority are actually satisfied with how it works for THEM -in order to switch it out for one I guarantee they will never be satisfied with how it works for them again.

A government that owns your health care -owns YOU and it owns control of your life and it CLAIMS the authority and "right" to PUNISH you for failing to live your life as IT tells you to do. YOU become government owned property and a government owned slave who will be punished for disobedience. You may not be aware of this but the vast majority of people could never see a doctor in their life and do just fine. The vast majority of what ails human beings is limited in nature -meaning most of it will go away on its own without medical care. We primarily see the doctor for our COMFORT, to improve the quality of life -not to save our life. Only a tiny percent NEED health care just to live -the rest of us just WANT it to improve the quality of our life. In exchange for WANTING increased comfort, we have people willing to sell off MY freedom and rights, YOUR freedom and rights and those of our children and grandchildren -none of which any of us have a right to do!

When a society chooses a mediocre system (which is the best you can get under a universal system), that society will deserve nothing more than mediocre -but most people do not understand what is really meant by getting a "mediocre system". It means the best it ever gets is mediocre -when functioning absolutely perfectly as designed to do -it will finally reach mediocrity. But when put into practice, that system rarely functions well, it is never efficient in allocating services, it is wasteful and because it is government, that means it automatically adds a massive layer of waste and fraud that did not previously exist. It will result in even greater skyrocketing costs (proving the NONSTOP repeated lie that if government is given total control of the entire industry, it will do a better job of controlling cost -bullshit, it gets much, much worse and quickly totally unsustainable).

In an amazing short period of time government is forced to stop considering all Americans to be citizens with equal rights -and view us all as UNEQUAL BURDENS on the system instead. With those judged to be "lesser burdens" getting preferential treatment and those deemed "great burdens" given short shrift and increasingly denied access to more and more medical care -even when it could extend their life expectancy, and worse yet, even when it could significantly improve the quality of life for their remaining time. And even when denying it will force them to die prematurely and unnecessarily. Resources start getting shifted away from those who are bigger "burdens" to those who are not -in reality resources are shifted away from those who actually NEED it to those who merely WANT it. Who are the real losers then? All of us -because when we get to the time when we need it the most, is when it will be denied to us. Even though we paid for it too.. And as seen in Britain today, not only have mortality rates been rising again for things once well controlled like high blood pressure, stroke, breast cancer and diabetes and are still dropping under our system -government determines who will be denied medical care by use of a formula that places a dollar amount on the life of that person and then weighs it against the cost of that treatment -and no appeal when denied treatment. Britain is now denying even CURATIVE treatment -denying people the treatment that would cure their condition entirely if the uncaring, cold, heartless, impersonal and bullshit formula deems it "not worth the cost". And denying people medical care and treatment that would significantly improve the quality of life for their remaining time on the grounds it just isn't worth it. By that, it means not worth the cost to GOVERNMENT, not to the individual who has no RIGHT to appeal, no right to demand medical care, no right to demand treatments that would improve the quality of their life once government has deemed it "just not worth it"! Seriously, is THIS the kind of "right" Brits thought they were getting? Oh, they can clog up a doctor's office seeing the doctor for a cold -but they are over 60 and want a hip replacement so they don't have to spend their rest of their life in a fucking wheelchair? Oops, no can do. NOT WORTH IT -except to that person of course, who actually matters the least of all to government.

You want a government that is forced to treat citizens UNEQUALLY and where government not only assigns a dollar value to your life and FORCES you to accept its judgment on that, where the likelihood you will be denied curative treatment once you are no longer contributing to society, denied those measures that would improve the quality of your life for your remaining time -oh absolutely insist health care is your "right". Because you will have no "right" and nowhere to turn when you suddenly realize that the health care system was changed from one intended to treat the sick and ease the remaining time for the dying -to one that exists primarily for those who don't need it at all. A hell of a trade off. Medicare was started by first claiming those who had spent their life contributing to society deserved to have excellent care during their old age. But universal health care inevitably turns that into one that treats those who spent their life contributing to society as the unnecessary burdens they quickly become seen to be and urged to get off the planet as soon as possible with government doing its part to make it happen.

 

[madasheck]

The basic answer to the question is that lack of health care causes more problems than not.

I guess I have to explain common language to the righties. Is this thread not called "Is healthcare a right? why or why not?"? This isn't "Jeopardy!," you know.

And you think your statement somehow answered that question? Maybe someone needs to explain the real definitions of words to you.

1. Is healthcare a right or not? That is a yes or no answer. Pretty simple.

2. Why or why not? Your comment doesn't answer jackshit on that one. Constipation causes more problem than not too. Mosquito bites cause more problems than not too. Still don't answer jackshit about whether a box of Exlax and a can of "Off" are also "rights", does it?

Liberals absolutely do NOT understand the meaning of rights. Rights are not a list of goods and services people think they will get for free if they demand government just GIVE it to them. Your rights do NOT come from government in the first place! If government "gives" you your rights, then government can damn well take them away anytime just as easily. Which means they were never rights to begin with but only government provided privileges. GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE SOURCE OF OUR RIGHTS! So it can't GIVE you health care as a "right" because government can't GIVE you ANY of your rights in the first place!

It should scare everyone here that we have fellow citizens who haven't a clue about our real rights! Because if you don't know where they are and where the hell they came from in the first place then you sure won't notice when they disappear, will you? (Which would please some people a lot if we as Americans forget where and what our REAL rights are while they dangle shiny toys at us and pretend they are "rights" instead.) We have a significant number of younger people who suffer under the delusion that our rights are GIFTS from government! That the Bill of Rights is merely a list of those things we want government to GIVE us. This belief is also how someone could even put "health care" and "rights" in the same fucking sentence in the first place! If you don't understand what are rights in the first place, that makes it pretty easy to claim just about any good or service you want is a "right" too! Oh, and a "right" to demand someone else foot the bill for it of course!

REAL rights are CLAIMED -and government ordered to not INTERFERE with the exercise of these rights. Government is NOT ordered to "provide" them to us and it isn't ordered to help you exercise them either. It is merely ordered to not interfere with the free exercise of these rights by the people. Rights WE THE PEOPLE HAVE CLAIMED FOR OURSELVES and forbidden government from interfering with or restricting. Government is not obligated to HELP us exercise our rights -but it is not allowed to interfere with our ability to do so. We do not demand our rights FROM government because it isn't something that can come FROM government in the first place! You either understand why these rights we CLAIMED for ourselves are critically necessary in order to be FREE -or you don't. But the ones who don't understand the difference are dangerous and scare the shit out of me! They are people who make it clear they are willing to not only sell off their own freedom at a very cheap price, but insist they have a "right" to sell off that of everyone else too -including unborn generations. Something past generations made sure they didn't do to them because it wasn't their right either.

1. Health care is a not a right because your rights never include the services or assistance of or work or the fruits of labor of another human being. PERIOD. Not ever. You can't get health care without someone else WORKING to provide it. You don't have a right to the WORK of that person -PERIOD. You don't have a "right" to demand government literally enslave a segment of the population because you have chosen to overvalue their services. That is YOUR problem -not theirs. You don't have a "right" to demand everyone else foot the bill and pay for the service you want just because you have decided to place a ridiculous and unreasonable value on it. Because again, the rest of us aren't your slaves either and you aren't entitled to the fruits of my labor and the money I busted my ass to earn.

2. Your REAL rights do not involve any other human beings. They involve what YOU can do, what YOU can say, what YOU believe -without government interfering with or preventing you from doing, saying or believing. Because THESE are the tools one needs in order to live as a FREE HUMAN BEING. These are the tools everyone needs to exist as a free person -someone with the RIGHT to make of his life what he will for better or ill. You can't do that unless you have the RIGHTS to run your own life as YOU see fit. Not as a pack of arrogant ruling elites see fit. There are people who place no real value on their own freedom -and they have that right. But they have NO right to demand I value my own no more than they do theirs. They have NO right to demand I forfeit MY rights just because they are willing to sell off their own. They have NO right to sell off that of my children just because they have no problem selling off those of their own children.

3. The first two are already enough on their own but the third is just as important too. Health care isn't a right because it isn't something universally needed by all people in order to be FREE. In fact, universal health care guarantees you will never live in freedom again but as the government owned slave you chose to be when you forfeited your real rights for "health care". What proponents AREN'T telling you is "if you want this shiny toy, it means giving government massive, unprecedented powers that can only come by stripping them from YOU -FOREVER. Along with those of your children and their children etc" When did they give you that right to sell off their real rights? It is a colossal, massive and truly deceptive trade-off -and dirt cheap prices. And once having traded off your REAL rights for such a cheap price, it will be much, much harder to ever get them back again -peacefully, that is. Powers you will lose right down to the minutiae of your life with government then having the "right" to tell you what you may eat and drink, which vices are government approved and which are not, what hobbies are government approved and which are not - and punish you for failing to abide by them. Always in the name of saying it isn't FAIR that taxpayers are paying for your medical care when YOU didn't live the way THEY wanted you to. Even if it means denying you access to health care treatments even though YOU actually paid for them too. Look how many people think smokers should be denied cancer treatments even now. Even though THEY paid for that insurance too. And how many think overweight people or alcoholics or drug abusers should all be denied treatment even NOW -ANYONE who isn't living by the rules made by a pack of ARROGANT ASSHOLE ELITES have decided only what THEY decide will be the ONLY acceptable way to live. THAT is the power you sell off -and in reality, it is just the beginning of the sell off, not the end of it. Sorry -you ain't selling MINE without a big fight buddy.

Goods and services produced by others are NOT rights -and isn't it interesting that the goods every one of us MUST have in order to live -aren't "rights" whatsoever. We all NEED food to exist -but we don't demand government just GIVE it to us all. We all NEED shelter from the elements but we don't demand government just GIVE a roof over our head and just GIVE clothing to us all. We don't because people who can provide these things for themselves are expected to do so and only those who cannot are provided food and shelter. Yet no one is complaining that the rich eat a better quality of food, wear better quality clothing and get a better quality of housing than those on the dole being handed them at taxpayer expense. We don't all equally need medical care though -and like any other service and still more than 85% of the population even with the overvaluation of the service -are able to provide it for themselves. We can't figure out how to help those who NEED it in order to LIVE but can't provide it for themselves only in THIS instance -but managed to figure that out when it comes to the REAL necessities of life? WTF? We bred a lot of really stupid people then. Frankly they deserve nothing more than mediocrity and one thing the left admires -is mediocrity. So much so they would destroy a system entirely that the vast majority are actually satisfied with how it works for THEM -in order to switch it out for one I guarantee they will never be satisfied with how it works for them again.

A government that owns your health care -owns YOU and it owns control of your life and it CLAIMS the authority and "right" to PUNISH you for failing to live your life as IT tells you to do. YOU become government owned property and a government owned slave who will be punished for disobedience. You may not be aware of this but the vast majority of people could never see a doctor in their life and do just fine. The vast majority of what ails human beings is limited in nature -meaning most of it will go away on its own without medical care. We primarily see the doctor for our COMFORT, to improve the quality of life -not to save our life. Only a tiny percent NEED health care just to live -the rest of us just WANT it to improve the quality of our life. In exchange for WANTING increased comfort, we have people willing to sell off MY freedom and rights, YOUR freedom and rights and those of our children and grandchildren -none of which any of us have a right to do!

When a society chooses a mediocre system (which is the best you can get under a universal system), that society will deserve nothing more than mediocre -but most people do not understand what is really meant by getting a "mediocre system". It means the best it ever gets is mediocre -when functioning absolutely perfectly as designed to do -it will finally reach mediocrity. But when put into practice, that system rarely functions well, it is never efficient in allocating services, it is wasteful and because it is government, that means it automatically adds a massive layer of waste and fraud that did not previously exist. It will result in even greater skyrocketing costs (proving the NONSTOP repeated lie that if government is given total control of the entire industry, it will do a better job of controlling cost -bullshit, it gets much, much worse and quickly totally unsustainable).

In an amazing short period of time government is forced to stop considering all Americans to be citizens with equal rights -and view us all as UNEQUAL BURDENS on the system instead. With those judged to be "lesser burdens" getting preferential treatment and those deemed "great burdens" given short shrift and increasingly denied access to more and more medical care -even when it could extend their life expectancy, and worse yet, even when it could significantly improve the quality of life for their remaining time. And even when denying it will force them to die prematurely and unnecessarily. Resources start getting shifted away from those who are bigger "burdens" to those who are not -in reality resources are shifted away from those who actually NEED it to those who merely WANT it. Who are the real losers then? All of us -because when we get to the time when we need it the most, is when it will be denied to us. Even though we paid for it too.. And as seen in Britain today, not only have mortality rates been rising again for things once well controlled like high blood pressure, stroke, breast cancer and diabetes and are still dropping under our system -government determines who will be denied medical care by use of a formula that places a dollar amount on the life of that person and then weighs it against the cost of that treatment -and no appeal when denied treatment. Britain is now denying even CURATIVE treatment -denying people the treatment that would cure their condition entirely if the uncaring, cold, heartless, impersonal and bullshit formula deems it "not worth the cost". And denying people medical care and treatment that would significantly improve the quality of life for their remaining time on the grounds it just isn't worth it. By that, it means not worth the cost to GOVERNMENT, not to the individual who has no RIGHT to appeal, no right to demand medical care, no right to demand treatments that would improve the quality of their life once government has deemed it "just not worth it"! Seriously, is THIS the kind of "right" Brits thought they were getting? Oh, they can clog up a doctor's office seeing the doctor for a cold -but they are over 60 and want a hip replacement so they don't have to spend their rest of their life in a fucking wheelchair? Oops, no can do. NOT WORTH IT -except to that person of course, who actually matters the least of all to government.

You want a government that is forced to treat citizens UNEQUALLY and where government not only assigns a dollar value to your life and FORCES you to accept its judgment on that, where the likelihood you will be denied curative treatment once you are no longer contributing to society, denied those measures that would improve the quality of your life for your remaining time -oh absolutely insist health care is your "right". Because you will have no "right" and nowhere to turn when you suddenly realize that the health care system was changed from one intended to treat the sick and ease the remaining time for the dying -to one that exists primarily for those who don't need it at all. A hell of a trade off. Medicare was started by first claiming those who had spent their life contributing to society deserved to have excellent care during their old age. But universal health care inevitably turns that into one that treats those who spent their life contributing to society as the unnecessary burdens they quickly become seen to be and urged to get off the planet as soon as possible with government doing its part to make it happen.

I'm glad I didn't ask for a long answer.

To put it concisely, the word "right" has a wider meaning than, say, a right to bear arms. That's not the real argument. Should the government have a plan for providing health care? Yes. Does that make it a "right," as in right to bear arms? No. Is that better for the common good? Absolutely.

And please don't give me crap about what liberals know and think. Damn cons can't keep it straight as to what they think, never mind what others think.

 

[Grandma]

Let's look at some history, shall we?

At the time the Constitution was written, healthcare meant that if you were ailing the local barber would come by and give you a good bleeding. If money weren't available you gave him some eggs or a yard of homespun, or some other product from your farm or business.

So there really was no need to consider "healthcare" as a right.

In the 20th Century, that changed. Those here that are older might recall that as recently as the 1960s catching the flu meant you'd be in the hospital for two or three weeks. You may or may not survive. A diagnosis of pneumonia was a death sentence. No survivors. But since then the sick can recover from nearly every ailment, the lame can walk, and some of the blind can see.

The amazing strides in medicine, including preventative medicine, require a hard look at the state of treatment in this country. Not everyone is being treated equally, or fairly, not when insurance companies can charge thousands upon thousands of dollars only to drop a customer for actually needing medical care.

We've reached the point where the government must step in. After all, we're supposedly guaranteed LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? I'd rather spend another $7000 per year on taxes in a situation where I can vote, than spend $7000 this year, $7500 next year, $8000 the year after, and so on, always having my deductible and copays raised, with less and less servce provided, and absolutely no recourse when I feel that I've been treated unfairly.

 

[Full-Auto]

Let's look at some history, shall we?

At the time the Constitution was written, healthcare meant that if you were ailing the local barber would come by and give you a good bleeding. If money weren't available you gave him some eggs or a yard of homespun, or some other product from your farm or business.

So there really was no need to consider "healthcare" as a right.

In the 20th Century, that changed. Those here that are older might recall that as recently as the 1960s catching the flu meant you'd be in the hospital for two or three weeks. You may or may not survive. A diagnosis of pneumonia was a death sentence. No survivors. But since then the sick can recover from nearly every ailment, the lame can walk, and some of the blind can see.

The amazing strides in medicine, including preventative medicine, require a hard look at the state of treatment in this country. Not everyone is being treated equally, or fairly, not when insurance companies can charge thousands upon thousands of dollars only to drop a customer for actually needing medical care.

We've reached the point where the government must step in. After all, we're supposedly guaranteed LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? I'd rather spend another $7000 per year on taxes in a situation where I can vote, than spend $7000 this year, $7500 next year, $8000 the year after, and so on, always having my deductible and copays raised, with less and less servce provided, and absolutely no recourse when I feel that I've been treated unfairly.

Government rationing......got it!!! If health insurance were allowed to operate as insurance it wouldnt cost as much.

But some women need someone else to pay for their birth control. ITS NOW LAW...........

 

[Euro]

Government rationing......got it!!! If health insurance were allowed to operate as insurance it wouldnt cost as much.

But some women need someone else to pay for their birth control. ITS NOW LAW...........

The US HC system is extremely bureaucratic and causes extremely high adminsistration costs as it is now. All these special programs, medicaid,medicare,Obamacare,Romneycare etc. It has to be made more streamlined and the focus should be to make it cost efficient and make it provide good services. Much of the bureaucracy and adminstration can be cut to make it more affordable. The defensive medicine suings is also something that has to be dealt with.

Have the costs gone up or down since Obamacare?

I think your politicians don’t know how to deal with the HC system since they always rise the costs more and more, get Ron Paul as president he’s a physician and knows the system in and out. He can make it work efficient and affordable.

 

[manifold]

Is national defense a right?

Is transportation infrastructure a right?

Is legal protection and law enforcement a right?

 

[Full-Auto]

Government rationing......got it!!! If health insurance were allowed to operate as insurance it wouldnt cost as much.

But some women need someone else to pay for their birth control. ITS NOW LAW...........

The US HC system is extremely bureaucratic and causes extremely high adminsistration costs as it is now. All these special programs, medicaid,medicare,Obamacare,Romneycare etc. It has to be made more streamlined and the focus should be to make it cost efficient and make it provide good services. Much of the bureaucracy and adminstration can be cut to make it more affordable. The defensive medicine suings is also something that has to be dealt with.

Have the costs gone up or down since Obamacare?

UP UP and AWAY!!! Rationing centers coming to a town near you.

 

[dblack]

To put it concisely, the word "right" has a wider meaning than, say, a right to bear arms. That's not the real argument. Should the government have a plan for providing health care? Yes. Does that make it a "right," as in right to bear arms? No. Is that better for the common good? Absolutely.

This is a good point. Things like the right to bear arms are protected freedoms, and many of us consider them very important. What's going on, in my view, is that people who want health care to be a responsibility of government are equivocating on the terminology. They know that protecting our 'rights' is something government is clearly supposed to do, so they're trying to convince everyone that health care is a 'right' to remove any objection to making it a government responsibility.

Apart from that tactic being a little shifty, it's also very dangerous because it obfuscates the purpose of political rights. Benefits and services provided by government are, simply put, optional. When the budget gets tight, or the services lose popularity, we cut back on them. Protecting our rights is not optional. We might be willing to give up free public libraries, for example, but not our freedom of speech.

 

[dblack]

Is national defense a right?

Is transportation infrastructure a right?

Is legal protection and law enforcement a right?

No, these are all government responsibilities. In some cases, they involve government protecting our rights - but they're not the rights themselves. Politically protected rights are freedoms.

Another perspective on this, that I think libertarian types tend to take for granted and may not be obvious to others, is that the whole idea of calling out individual rights in the constitution (ie the Bill of Rights) was to specify that government was not allowed to make laws violating them. They are restrictions on government - "Congress shall make no law ...". In that light, how does a "right to health care" make any sense? Would we be saying that government is restricted from preventing us from getting health care?