Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[GISMYS]

Do you eat pork?

pray for some wisdom and understanding!! WE BELIEVERS AFTER JESUS CAME TO EARTH AND FULLFILLED THE LAW, WE NOW LIVE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT!!! WE ARE FREE TO EAT ANYTHING WE LIKE!!

Show me where it says we are free to eat anything we like in the bible, then I'll show you where it says gays are allowed to marry other adults of the same sex.

Otherwise, repent sinner!

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Col 2:16)==But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. (1 Cor 8:

 

[emilynghiem]

BTW [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION]
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...story-2-dads-w-newborn-son-5.html#post9393288

I agree with your POINT that people are "hating what they cannot control in themselves"
(not with the practice of doing that, but with your assessment/description)

I notice that the same way
* GreenBean kept projecting his understanding of "mental illness" (from his own experiences with recovery from addiction and what is a choice or not a choice to stay on that path)
* You kept projecting your assessment of causation based on people's sexuality/orientation

With GreenBean, you kept insisting or assuming it has to be because he is "closet homosexual" and suppressing his "sexuality," because that is your understanding; from his experience he has dealt with overcoming addiction and sees homosexuality that way.

So HE keeps insisting or assuming "mental illness" and "choice to stay addicted"
is involved because that is HIS experience with spiritual changes.

I trust you are honest with your perceptions, what you can see or not see, you come right out and say yes or no.

Can you see that you are both projecting something the other person does not use to describe their process.

The same people on those website testimonial pages who described themselves as going through a "spiritual path of lifechange" GreenBean kept calling "mental illness"
and he REFUSED to change his language/perception even though we AGREED we are "referring the same people and process where they describe themselves differently"
They did NOT perceive or call their process "mental illness" as GreenBean calls that.

And similar with you. I kept trying to explain that GreenBean has been going through recovery on a spiritual level, and yes it could be mental or personality issues,
but you kept framing this as his "sexual orientation" he was struggling with.

What I believe is going on in such cases, where two people like you and GB deadlock,
is either you both let go at the same time, either agree to both drop it, or agree to "call it even and admit you are both doing it and neither agreeing to change",
and that is enough to change the relationship.

Just by identifying where the mutual give and take is occurring, and either agreeing to resolve it or agreeing to disagree without judging each other for what you "cannot change."

If that is both your way of seeing and saying it, we can still agree we are talking about the same process -- GB sees it as mental illness, or I see it as spiritual changes, or you see it as someone's sexual orientation, and it doesn't make that process false. The same experiences are happening and it is our language that is biasing our perception of what each means and is referring to. We are actually referring to the same things.

Can you see that GB was doing something similar to you, but the difference is whether you and he are aware of those differences causing that projection and can accept them.

I believe you are a broadminded enough person to deal with these differences.

If you are going to carry on this conversation to the next level, with more and more people,
this effect of projecting biases is going to be multiplied; so if you can deal with it when it is just 2-3 people, that would help before you try to talk with whole groups affected this way.

 

[emilynghiem]

SIN IS NEGATIVE AND UGLY!!! THE first step to being forgiven and washed clean is to confess your sin ""IS"" SIN!!! Don't compound you sin by denying the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD THAT CONDEMNS YOUR PET SIN OF SEXUAL PERVERSION. Think!

Yes [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] and the more you repent and let God wash away sins of the past from your own words and mind,
then your speech will also become more pure with Grace, and not perversion in any way or appearance as ugly.

Matthew 15:11
Matthew 15:11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."
11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

 

[emilynghiem]

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Col 2:16)==But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. (1 Cor 8:

11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." -- Matthew 15:11

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] the rebuke is not literally about the food itself,
it is about cleaning up your own act and your own speech otherwise "defiling" the message.

May all things be repented of, removed and come clean, that God's truth is spoken with love wisdom and clarity, and established between us in Christ Jesus name, Amen! Thank you GISMYS

 

[GISMYS]

SIN IS NEGATIVE AND UGLY!!! THE first step to being forgiven and washed clean is to confess your sin ""IS"" SIN!!! Don't compound you sin by denying the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD THAT CONDEMNS YOUR PET SIN OF SEXUAL PERVERSION. Think!

Yes [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] and the more you repent and let God wash away sins of the past from your own words and mind,
then your speech will also become more pure with Grace, and not perversion in any way or appearance as ugly.

Matthew 15:11
Matthew 15:11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."
11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

I POST GOD'S WORD ON SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION NOT MY WORD!!! Just face the truth and stop compounding your sin of sexual perversion by denying the truth of GOD'S WORD which is an even worse sin!!

 

[brandonisi]

I'll never understand what goes through ones head when they justify their opinions of what civil law should be with bible quotes.

A same sex couple who chooses to get married has nothing to do with anyone but that couple.

I've been with my boyfriend (I hate using the word "partner") for nearly a decade. If it weren't for the current laws in my state (Texas), we would probably have married already. Our relationship has lasted longer than that of my brothers and their wives, my sister and her husband, and even my father and his wife (he remarried after my mother passed away). We have a beautiful home, make decent money, pay our taxes and feed our cat.

But somehow our relationship is inferior to that of my meth-head sister who is now on her fourth marriage? Give me a break.

 

[GISMYS]

I'll never understand what goes through ones head when they justify their opinions of what civil law should be with bible quotes.

A same sex couple who chooses to get married has nothing to do with anyone but that couple.

I've been with my boyfriend (I hate using the word "partner") for nearly a decade. If it weren't for the current laws in my state (Texas), we would probably have married already. Our relationship has lasted longer than that of my brothers and their wives, my sister and her husband, and even my father and his wife (he remarried after my mother passed away). We have a beautiful home, make decent money, pay our taxes and feed our cat.

But somehow our relationship is inferior to that of my meth-head sister who is now on her fourth marriage? Give me a break.

YES!!! SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION FAR INFERIOR TO GOD'S PLAN FOR MANKIND!!! YOU AND YOUR SISTER NEED TO SEEK AND FIND,ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!Wise up before it is too late!!!

 

[brandonisi]

YES!!! SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION FAR INFERIOR TO GOD'S PLAN FOR MANKIND!!! YOU AND YOUR SISTER NEED TO SEEK AND FIND,ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!Wise up before it is too late!!!

Gismys,
You should know that I take nothing you say seriously. I've come to the conclusion that you are either:

A) An unemployed, overweight individual living with your mother as you troll about on Internet forums, or

B) Really are just that ridiculous of a person.

Reply if you wish. I'm no longer acknowledging you exist. It was entertaining at first, but now it's just a pain to decipher your grammar. Goodbye.

 

[GISMYS]

YES!!! SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION FAR INFERIOR TO GOD'S PLAN FOR MANKIND!!! YOU AND YOUR SISTER NEED TO SEEK AND FIND,ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!Wise up before it is too late!!!

Gismys,
You should know that I take nothing you say seriously. I've come to the conclusion that you are either:

A) An unemployed, overweight individual living with your mother as you troll about on Internet forums, or

B) Really are just that ridiculous of a person.

Reply if you wish. I'm no longer acknowledging you exist. It was entertaining at first, but now it's just a pain to decipher your grammar. Goodbye.

SATAN AND DEMONS SCREAM AND CRY WHEN THEY HEAR TRUTH just like you do!!!

 

[RKMBrown]

pray for some wisdom and understanding!! WE BELIEVERS AFTER JESUS CAME TO EARTH AND FULLFILLED THE LAW, WE NOW LIVE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT!!! WE ARE FREE TO EAT ANYTHING WE LIKE!!

Show me where it says we are free to eat anything we like in the bible, then I'll show you where it says gays are allowed to marry other adults of the same sex.

Otherwise, repent sinner!

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Col 2:16)==But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. (1 Cor 8:

Ayup that's the spot.

15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

For example, let no one act as your judge in regard to interracial or gay marriage. There you go... the substance belongs to Christ.

Back to the point, would Christ have judged a gay marriage as sinful, or said another way, what gives you the right to be a ruler and authority over gays?

This is exactly to my point, thank you. Just as Christ is saying the old laws for the Sabbath, and cloven animals should not be judged by rulers and authorities, he's also foreshadowing that other of these types of laws should belong to Christ not rulers and authorities.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now now, there is no need to get your panties in a bunch ma'am, take a midol count to five and breath.

Using sex as an insult, why is that? is it because you have aren't comfortable with your own sexuality, or is it because you believe that sex is dirty? Have you noticed that I am unimpressed with tactics like that?

Calling people idiot, seems you aren't interested in tactics our debate at all. Likely because you fail at logic.

Calling people an idiot is a rhetorical technique, and has nothing to do with logic. that is something I would think that a self declared expert in logic would understand, if he was half as good as he thought he were at logic. the fact that you keep accusing me of using a straw man argument when I ask questions based on your arguments tells me you aren't early as good as logic as you think you are, and the fact that you confuse rhetoric and logic just confirms it.

That said, how does anything I might do in any way mitigate using homosexuality as an insult? I mean, seriously, if you want me, or anyone else on the face of the Earth, to take you seriously how the fuck can you even attempt to justify using it as an insult? Doesn't that feed right into the homophobia you claim to abhore?

in other words, you lost the argument when you resorted to insulting me with your inability to not use sexuality as an insult, and nothing you can say, or do, will change that fact.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sounds to me like you only made it to 2.

Why does it sound that way to you? I am not the one using sex as an insult, the poster I quoted is. Are you just confused because you disagree with me, and cannot reconcile the fact that I have never once used sexuality as an insult in my entire life?

You use insults every chance you get. I have seen you do it at least a dozen times. I actually didn't use sexuality as an insult I simply implied that a poster was acting like an irrational, emotional person.

You choose to be offended, thus giving me control over the ability to offend you.

I am not offended, I am perfectly comfortable with who, and what, I am. nothing you can say, or imply, is going to cause me offense because I know that being offended means that I am giving you control over me, that is something I am not going to do.

I would also like to point out that you will never find me using sexuality as an insult. That is because, unlike you,, I understand that sexual preference is a choice, and thus beyond the ability to insult. When I insult people it is based on their misconceptions, not their choices, their lifestyle, or things that are beyond their control. I jump on them for their refusal to open their minds, not their personal lifestyle.

You cannot say the same thing, which is why you will never win an argument with me, you cannot divorce yourself from your prejudices. If i ever call you an idiot in the future you will know why.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...And not one religious zealot ever stopped being a zealot after some rational person tried disuading them. Just sayin'

Never in the history of the world?

Just asking.

 

[Inevitable]

BTW [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION]
http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...story-2-dads-w-newborn-son-5.html#post9393288

I agree with your POINT that people are "hating what they cannot control in themselves"
(not with the practice of doing that, but with your assessment/description)

I notice that the same way
* GreenBean kept projecting his understanding of "mental illness" (from his own experiences with recovery from addiction and what is a choice or not a choice to stay on that path)
* You kept projecting your assessment of causation based on people's sexuality/orientation

With GreenBean, you kept insisting or assuming it has to be because he is "closet homosexual" and suppressing his "sexuality," because that is your understanding; from his experience he has dealt with overcoming addiction and sees homosexuality that way.

So HE keeps insisting or assuming "mental illness" and "choice to stay addicted"
is involved because that is HIS experience with spiritual changes.

I trust you are honest with your perceptions, what you can see or not see, you come right out and say yes or no.

Can you see that you are both projecting something the other person does not use to describe their process.

The same people on those website testimonial pages who described themselves as going through a "spiritual path of lifechange" GreenBean kept calling "mental illness"
and he REFUSED to change his language/perception even though we AGREED we are "referring the same people and process where they describe themselves differently"
They did NOT perceive or call their process "mental illness" as GreenBean calls that.

And similar with you. I kept trying to explain that GreenBean has been going through recovery on a spiritual level, and yes it could be mental or personality issues,
but you kept framing this as his "sexual orientation" he was struggling with.

What I believe is going on in such cases, where two people like you and GB deadlock,
is either you both let go at the same time, either agree to both drop it, or agree to "call it even and admit you are both doing it and neither agreeing to change",
and that is enough to change the relationship.

Just by identifying where the mutual give and take is occurring, and either agreeing to resolve it or agreeing to disagree without judging each other for what you "cannot change."

If that is both your way of seeing and saying it, we can still agree we are talking about the same process -- GB sees it as mental illness, or I see it as spiritual changes, or you see it as someone's sexual orientation, and it doesn't make that process false. The same experiences are happening and it is our language that is biasing our perception of what each means and is referring to. We are actually referring to the same things.

Can you see that GB was doing something similar to you, but the difference is whether you and he are aware of those differences causing that projection and can accept them.

I believe you are a broadminded enough person to deal with these differences.

If you are going to carry on this conversation to the next level, with more and more people,
this effect of projecting biases is going to be multiplied; so if you can deal with it when it is just 2-3 people, that would help before you try to talk with whole groups affected this way.

Greenbean projected nothing but hatred for himself.

I don't really care to discuss him any more.

 

[midcan5]

And more icing on the cake.

'World’s largest study on same-sex parents finds kids are healthier and happier than peers
Children raised by gay parents are doing just as well, if not better, than the general population' Lindsay Abrams

World?s largest study on same-sex parents finds kids are healthier and happier than peers - Salon.com

Oh and did anyone try switch hitting?

hahahahahaha

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And more icing on the cake.

'World’s largest study on same-sex parents finds kids are healthier and happier than peers
Children raised by gay parents are doing just as well, if not better, than the general population' Lindsay Abrams

World?s largest study on same-sex parents finds kids are healthier and happier than peers - Salon.com

Oh and did anyone try switch hitting?

hahahahahaha

I love it when people don't follow links.

315 parents completed the survey (completion rate&#8201;=&#8201;81%) representing 500 children. 80% of children had a female index parent while 18% had a male index parent. Children in same-sex parent families had higher scores on measures of general behavior, general health and family cohesion compared to population normative data (&#946;&#8201;=&#8201;2.93, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;0.35 to 5.52, P&#8201;=&#8201;.03; &#946;&#8201;=&#8201;5.60, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;2.69 to 8.52, P&#8201;=&#8201;<.001; and &#946;&#8201;=&#8201;6.01, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;2.84 to 9.17, P&#8201;=&#8201;<.001 respectively). There were no significant differences between the two groups for all other scale scores. Physical activity, mental health, and family cohesion were all negatively associated with increased stigma (&#946;&#8201;=&#8201;-3.03, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;-5.86 to -0.21, P&#8201;=&#8201;.04; &#946;&#8201;=&#8201;-10.45, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;-18.48 to -2.42, P&#8201;=&#8201;.01; and &#946;&#8201;=&#8201;-9.82, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;-17.86 to -1.78, P&#8201;=&#8201;.02 respectively) and the presence of emotional symptoms was positively associated with increased stigma (&#946; =0.94, 95% CI&#8201;=&#8201;0.08 to 1.81, P&#8201;=&#8201;.03).

In case you do not understand what that means, the "study" was nothing more than a survey of parents and their opinions about their children.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Hehe, if it's a choice then it's also a mental illness. Only someone who's mentally ill would choose to become the planet's most persecuted social demographic.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

FOR SEXUAL PERVERTS TO HAVE CHILDREN IN THEIR HOUSE IS """EXTREAM CHILD ABUSE OF THE WORST KIND"""!!! Stand up for right!!!

But beating children with metal rods isn't?

 

[Slyhunter]

FOR SEXUAL PERVERTS TO HAVE CHILDREN IN THEIR HOUSE IS """EXTREAM CHILD ABUSE OF THE WORST KIND"""!!! Stand up for right!!!

But beating children with metal rods isn't?

What I always tell my sister, stop yelling at your kids, it serves no purpose other than to abuse them because it doesn't actually work, beat them instead. Use a method that actually works thus you can do less of it. Because doing something that doesn't work means you have to do it more often than you have to do something that does work.

One good beating could reduce the necessity for future beatings because the kid will be to scared to not behave. And that is the point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hehe, if it's a choice then it's also a mental illness. Only someone who's mentally ill would choose to become the planet's most persecuted social demographic.

That is the single dumbest argument ever presented. You do understand that people have chosen to live lives that caused them to be persecuted since the beginning of time, don't you? Or do you think people are programmed to chose a religion where Romans would crucify them, throw them to the lions, or skin them alive for the entertainment of the masses? You really need to learn to think before you post something so absurd.