Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[MHunterB]

"What eastern border do you imagine for the Jewish super-state?"

That depends on whether Jordan continues to abide by the peace treaty.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, theliq, Kondor3, et al,

We always want to think that the decisions of today, and the choices we make will have survivable and acceptable consequences.

theliq, Kondor3, et al,

Well, actually, the Arab League (AL) does provide some funding, but usually in trickle amounts and only after US Aid has been exhausted. For instance, in 2011, when the US Congress cut funding to the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), Secretary General Nabil al-Arabi of the Arab League said the AL would provide for the PNA. But when push came to shove, and the PNA could not make payroll, Congress released $190M+ for assistance. So, in that regard, our friend "Kondor3" has a double-bulleyes.

The AL generally doesn't fund in parallel to US financial aid. It will fund projects and programs that are beyond authorized limits US aid. And example of the limit is the recent proposal for the creation of a Arabic and Islamic Heritage Fund for the Preservation of Jerusalem and Holy Ground. The Emir of Qatar, Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, has already pledged to contribute about 25% (about $250M) towards the proposed effort.

Earlier this year, a strange (very strange) thing happened.

At least one Palestinian leader is honest enough to blame his “brotherly” Arab states for the cash crisis faced by the Palestinian Authority (PA) in Ramallah. PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, in an interview with the Associated Press on Sunday, January 6, 2013 complained of an immense financial crisis in the PA, largely due to the Arab countries’ failure to dispatch promised millions of dollars in aid. Ironically, it is the Jewish state of Israel that the Palestinians regularly vilify and seek to destroy, which hitherto, provided the financial wherewithal to the PA by transferring $100 million in tax rebates to Ramallah, an amount that covers a third of the PA monthly operating costs.

SOURCE: The Arabs? Betrayal of the Palestinians | FrontPage Magazine

It was an interesting event. (Fact is stranger than fiction!)

... Muslim States want the Status Quo between Palestinians and Israelis.....I have always said that only the Palestinians and Jews will in the end will resolve this on going situation...

(COMMENT)

In the excerpt of "Steve's" comment, there is some very disturbing truth; but truth none the less. (2x Single Bullseye.)

The AL does not want to be any more entangled with the Palestinians, than anyone else. While they make, from time-to-time, anti-Israeli comments (many with solid prima facie justification - nothing radical), they even more rarely make pro-Palestinian comments (except for domestic consumption - that is purely political in religious appeasement). There are many anti-government elements surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which the AL would rather be pinned-down and focused on Israel, contained --- rather than cut loose and looking for a cause to incite elsewhere in the Region.

Oddly enough, while much of the world (that actually cares) sees the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a critical issue and humanitarian concern, within the Middle East Region, the leadership echelon see it as more of a imperfect solution to Regional Security in a time when they would like to limit radical resources that might further fuel the Arab Spring and Arab Spring like events. There are several other lesser security concerns, but chief among those is the Iranian involvement and (the unspoken elephant in the room) - the non-state actor; and the baggage all that brings with it in the form of a potential to induce a Sunni-Shi'ite disturbance and the spread of violence beyond the borders in dispute.

So, while we (in this discussion group) can say that the core issues over the more than half-century dispute include borders, Palestinian refugees, Jewish settlements in the West Bank, AND the status of Jerusalem (politically and religiously); there are other critical aspect angles. In the rarified gaseous chambers behind the closed doors of political intrigue, where dark agendas are played-out, and the stability and survival of nations and regimes are discussed, none of the issues that we discuss (the way we discuss them) are black and white, a true matter of compliance versus non-compliance, or isolated and distinct as we address them here. What may seem to us, to be individually corrupt, villainous, and violations of this, that and the other treaty, law, or convention ---> there is more (much more) to those that have solution keys in hand. And not everyone sees a solution as the best alternative; at least not yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why do you suppose "those that have solution keys in hand" chose to slap at Anwar Sadat's peace proposal in 1971?

How much more do those who never miss a chance to miss a chance to choose expansion over peace think they are entitled to?

(COMMENT)

I suppose that I don't know. But I'm willing to bet that the Israelis had made another choice.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, theliq, Kondor3, et al,

We always want to think that the decisions of today, and the choices we make will have survivable and acceptable consequences.

theliq, Kondor3, et al,

Well, actually, the Arab League (AL) does provide some funding, but usually in trickle amounts and only after US Aid has been exhausted. For instance, in 2011, when the US Congress cut funding to the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), Secretary General Nabil al-Arabi of the Arab League said the AL would provide for the PNA. But when push came to shove, and the PNA could not make payroll, Congress released $190M+ for assistance. So, in that regard, our friend "Kondor3" has a double-bulleyes.

The AL generally doesn't fund in parallel to US financial aid. It will fund projects and programs that are beyond authorized limits US aid. And example of the limit is the recent proposal for the creation of a Arabic and Islamic Heritage Fund for the Preservation of Jerusalem and Holy Ground. The Emir of Qatar, Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, has already pledged to contribute about 25% (about $250M) towards the proposed effort.

Earlier this year, a strange (very strange) thing happened.



It was an interesting event. (Fact is stranger than fiction!)


(COMMENT)

In the excerpt of "Steve's" comment, there is some very disturbing truth; but truth none the less. (2x Single Bullseye.)

The AL does not want to be any more entangled with the Palestinians, than anyone else. While they make, from time-to-time, anti-Israeli comments (many with solid prima facie justification - nothing radical), they even more rarely make pro-Palestinian comments (except for domestic consumption - that is purely political in religious appeasement). There are many anti-government elements surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which the AL would rather be pinned-down and focused on Israel, contained --- rather than cut loose and looking for a cause to incite elsewhere in the Region.

Oddly enough, while much of the world (that actually cares) sees the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a critical issue and humanitarian concern, within the Middle East Region, the leadership echelon see it as more of a imperfect solution to Regional Security in a time when they would like to limit radical resources that might further fuel the Arab Spring and Arab Spring like events. There are several other lesser security concerns, but chief among those is the Iranian involvement and (the unspoken elephant in the room) - the non-state actor; and the baggage all that brings with it in the form of a potential to induce a Sunni-Shi'ite disturbance and the spread of violence beyond the borders in dispute.

So, while we (in this discussion group) can say that the core issues over the more than half-century dispute include borders, Palestinian refugees, Jewish settlements in the West Bank, AND the status of Jerusalem (politically and religiously); there are other critical aspect angles. In the rarified gaseous chambers behind the closed doors of political intrigue, where dark agendas are played-out, and the stability and survival of nations and regimes are discussed, none of the issues that we discuss (the way we discuss them) are black and white, a true matter of compliance versus non-compliance, or isolated and distinct as we address them here. What may seem to us, to be individually corrupt, villainous, and violations of this, that and the other treaty, law, or convention ---> there is more (much more) to those that have solution keys in hand. And not everyone sees a solution as the best alternative; at least not yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why do you suppose "those that have solution keys in hand" chose to slap at Anwar Sadat's peace proposal in 1971?

How much more do those who never miss a chance to miss a chance to choose expansion over peace think they are entitled to?

(COMMENT)

I suppose that I don't know. But I'm willing to bet that the Israelis had made another choice.

Most Respectfully,
R

Obviously.

"The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War, or October War (Hebrew: מלחמת יום הכיפורים* Milẖemet Yom HaKipurim or מלחמת יום כיפור Milẖemet Yom Kipur; Arabic: حرب أكتوبر* ḥarb ʾUktōbar, or حرب تشرين ḥarb Tišrīn), also known as the 1973 Arab–Israeli War and the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, was a war fought by the coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel from October 6 to 25, 1973."

Expansion over peace has been the Israeli choice for generations.

Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kondor3]

"...Expansion over peace has been the Israeli choice for generations..."

Only within the context and confines of the 1922 map boundaries.

They gave back the Sinai willingly enough.

They gave back southern Lebanon willingly enough.

So much for their insidious expansionist plans, beyond the 1922 map.

 

[georgephillip]

"...Expansion over peace has been the Israeli choice for generations..."

Only within the context and confines of the 1922 map boundaries.

They gave back the Sinai willingly enough.

They gave back southern Lebanon willingly enough.

So much for their insidious expansionist plans, beyond the 1922 map.

Why did Golda wait so long to "willingly" return the Sinai?

"Between 1971 and 1973 Prime Minister Golda Meir rejected the peace signals of [Egyptian President Anwar] Sadat and ignored his proposal to establish full peace with Israel in return for a return of the Sinai [Peninsula] to Egypt’s hands.

The Myth of the Missed Opportunity In Israeli-Arab Peace - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

 

[georgephillip]

"...What eastern border do you imagine for the Jewish super-state?"

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Expansion over peace has been the Israeli choice for generations..."

Only within the context and confines of the 1922 map boundaries.

They gave back the Sinai willingly enough.

They gave back southern Lebanon willingly enough.

So much for their insidious expansionist plans, beyond the 1922 map.

Why did Golda wait so long to "willingly" return the Sinai? ...

Holding onto it as a bargaining chip, until the Egyptians were willing to bargain...

 

[Kondor3]

"...What eastern border do you imagine for the Jewish super-state?"

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

Because they are currently in possession of most of it?

Because they acquired pieces of it as the spoils of war, after the Arabs attacked them or postured so as to force Israel to strike preemptively in order to survive?

Because they're the biggest, baddest mother phukkers in the valley?

 

[theliq]

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

Because they are currently in possession of most of it?

Because they acquired pieces of it as the spoils of war, after the Arabs attacked them or postured so as to force Israel to strike preemptively in order to survive?

Because they're the biggest, baddest mother phukkers in the valley?

Well your knowledge of History is chronically poor.

As in America today with illegal immigration....parallels exactly to the Palestinians situation from cira 1926.......Palestine was flooded with Illegal Jewish Migrants/Immigrants,to the point that they created a formidable Terrorist Force and they began their Killing,Looting,Murder,Stealing and eventually War against the Palestinians and British......They were TERRORISTS OF THE WORSE KIND.......eventually they overcame the owners of the land and expelled them.

According to you it would be OK for say for example for 100's of thousands of Illegal Mexicans to go into Texas,fight a war,Win,then throw out Texans,all under the guise that they or their ancestors lived there 10 generations ago.... the UN then agreed. The country of Texmex was born

Because that is exactly your premise regarding the Israeli,well Jewish invasion at the time.

You see Kondor,things are never as simplistic as you make them appear,you only see things through this moment in time.

But the majority of Israeli Jews want a 2 State solution.....apart from the latest lot of Jewish Immigrants "The Fundimentalist Ultra's and the Settlers" all mainly imports from the US.

As the United States realize you may win the Battle but you can never win the War.....The Palestinians are one of the most educated,proud and caring peoples on earth and like their cousins the Jews...it will be these two peoples that will bring this Schism to an end.steve

Viva Palestine,Viva Israel

 

[Kondor3]

"...Well your knowledge of History is chronically poor..."

Not true, but that really doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is that the Israelis control that land, and will continue to do so, and will continue to expand their holdings, until they have annexed the remainder of the West Bank and Gaza and scattered the inhabitants into Lebanon and Jordan and moved Jews into the vacuum in order to consolidate and finalize their holdings.

The rest is mere background noise and filler-fluff.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

"...What eastern border do you imagine for the Jewish super-state?"

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

The Palestinians are part of the larger Arab nation that already has 22 countries. I was just at a Jewish wedding last week. The groom broke a glass. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. On the holiday of Tisha B'av, we fast. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. Orthodox Jews mention Jerusalem 3x every day in their prayers, and when saying Grace. And all that praying finally payed off after 2,000 years.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

The Palestinians are part of the larger Arab nation that already has 22 countries. I was just at a Jewish wedding last week. The groom broke a glass. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. On the holiday of Tisha B'av, we fast. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. Orthodox Jews mention Jerusalem 3x every day in their prayers, and when saying Grace. And all that praying finally payed off after 2,000 years.

...and gave us 9/11, among other things like jihad, shoe bombs...

Btw, all our ancestors came from Africa. Can we go steal their land too? Just curious.

 

[RoccoR]

Bumberclyde, et al,

I'm not so sure I totally disagree with this. It does require some thought.

...and gave us 9/11, among other things like jihad, shoe bombs...

(COMMENT)

This is fairly cut and dry.

The Osama bin Laden "letter to the American people" explains it clearly.

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:
b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.
e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.
f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.
g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.
​

Whether the perceptions are true (or not) is unimportant. The consequences of those perception brought us the events.

Btw, all our ancestors came from Africa. Can we go steal their land too? Just curious.

(COMMENT)

This is a question of validity to ancient sovereign claims. And most people have difficulty separating the concept of sovereignty from ownership. The phrase "steal their land" is a real estate issue about ownership (not an issue of sovereignty).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Bumberclyde]

Bumberclyde, et al,

I'm not so sure I totally disagree with this. It does require some thought.

...and gave us 9/11, among other things like jihad, shoe bombs...

(COMMENT)

This is fairly cut and dry.

The Osama bin Laden "letter to the American people" explains it clearly.

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:
b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.
e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.
f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.
g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.
​

Whether the perceptions are true (or not) is unimportant. The consequences of those perception brought us the events.

Btw, all our ancestors came from Africa. Can we go steal their land too? Just curious.

(COMMENT)

This is a question of validity to ancient sovereign claims. And most people have difficulty separating the concept of sovereignty from ownership. The phrase "steal their land" is a real estate issue about ownership (not an issue of sovereignty).

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy Deflection Batman!

So can I go take the land in Africa or not? My ancestors are from there. Or does everyone have to be Jewish for it to count?

Israel gave us 9/11, you're right, it IS fairly cut and dry.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Bumberclyde, et al,

I'm not so sure I totally disagree with this. It does require some thought.

...and gave us 9/11, among other things like jihad, shoe bombs...

(COMMENT)

This is fairly cut and dry.

The Osama bin Laden "letter to the American people" explains it clearly.



Whether the perceptions are true (or not) is unimportant. The consequences of those perception brought us the events.

Btw, all our ancestors came from Africa. Can we go steal their land too? Just curious.

(COMMENT)

This is a question of validity to ancient sovereign claims. And most people have difficulty separating the concept of sovereignty from ownership. The phrase "steal their land" is a real estate issue about ownership (not an issue of sovereignty).

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy Deflection Batman!

So can I go take the land in Africa or not? My ancestors are from there. Or does everyone have to be Jewish for it to count?

Israel gave us 9/11, you're right, it IS fairly cut and dry.

Are you black? You can certainly move to Africa if you want. Roots and all that.
The people who actually COMMITTED 9/11 brought you 9/11.

 

[theliq]

Just the way you see it laid out in the 1922 map, as imagined by the British Mandate Authority and the League of Nations.

That map encompasses all of the old Jewish kingdoms of the region and is almost identical to the outline of borders that has been slowing materializing for the past 65 years.

I seriously doubt they'll need or want anything more... they just want their old homeland back again... and they'll get it... they're almost there, already.

Now tell us why Jews alone, among all nations of the world, are entitled to their "old homeland" when the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arab population have occupied the same homeland for at least as long?

The Palestinians are part of the larger Arab nation that already has 22 countries. I was just at a Jewish wedding last week. The groom broke a glass. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. On the holiday of Tisha B'av, we fast. Why? To see Jerusalem rebuilt. Orthodox Jews mention Jerusalem 3x every day in their prayers, and when saying Grace. And all that praying finally payed off after 2,000 years.

The Palestinians are nothing like other Arab nations,it's like saying the Brits or Australians are like Americans.........over time nations mentality changes...Crikey if anyone thought I was a Brit or American.....I would take it as an insult.

I by the way am pragmatic enough to realize Israel will remain but thinking Jews worldwide know that there will be a Country of Palestinian

 

[georgephillip]

Only within the context and confines of the 1922 map boundaries.

They gave back the Sinai willingly enough.

They gave back southern Lebanon willingly enough.

So much for their insidious expansionist plans, beyond the 1922 map.

Why did Golda wait so long to "willingly" return the Sinai? ...

Holding onto it as a bargaining chip, until the Egyptians were willing to bargain...

Golda accepted the same peace deal in 1973 that Sadat put on the table in 1971.
What happened in between?

"The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War, or October War (Hebrew: מלחמת יום הכיפורים* Milẖemet Yom HaKipurim or מלחמת יום כיפור Milẖemet Yom Kipur; Arabic: حرب أكتوبر* ḥarb ʾUktōbar, or حرب تشرين ḥarb Tišrīn), also known as the 1973 Arab–Israeli War and the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, was a war fought by the coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel from October 6 to 25, 1973."

What price did Americans pay for Golda's gamble?

"In response to U.S. support of Israel, the Arab members of OPEC, led by Saudi Arabia, decided to reduce oil production by 5% per month on October 17. On October 19, President Nixon authorized a major allocation of arms supplies and $2.2 billion in appropriations for Israel.

"In response, Saudi Arabia declared an embargo against the United States, later joined by other oil exporters and extended against the Netherlands and other states, causing the 1973 energy crisis."

Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kondor3]

It was worth the price, and you'll notice that the Arabs don't pull that kind of shit anymore...

 

[georgephillip]

It was worth the price, and you'll notice that the Arabs don't pull that kind of shit anymore...

Jews do:

"Families in Sheikh Jarrah, a Palestinian village in East Jerusalem, are being evicted from their homes and replaced by Jewish settlers. The al Kurd family, whose 94 year-old matriarch was displaced from her Haifa home in the 1948 war and has resided in Sheikh Jarrah for nearly 60 years, lost half of its home to an Israeli settler family in 2008—and is currently under threat of being evicted from the rest."

A Story Your Reps Should Hear: House Evictions in Sheikh Jarrah

What makes you think non-Jews found the Arab oil embargo "worth the price?" of Golda's greed?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

In wars, especially a wars for independence and wars to maintain sovereignty, everyone loses something. In wars, it is not about how much about won wins what ---- but, which side loses the least.

It was worth the price, and you'll notice that the Arabs don't pull that kind of shit anymore...

Jews do:

"Families in Sheikh Jarrah, a Palestinian village in East Jerusalem, are being evicted from their homes and replaced by Jewish settlers. The al Kurd family, whose 94 year-old matriarch was displaced from her Haifa home in the 1948 war and has resided in Sheikh Jarrah for nearly 60 years, lost half of its home to an Israeli settler family in 2008—and is currently under threat of being evicted from the rest."

What makes you think non-Jews found the Arab oil embargo "worth the price?" of Golda's greed?

(COMMENT)

So let's cut to the chase. State the complaint clearly!

What was the political condition at the time of the loss?

• Who is losing What?
• Which side where they on?
• When did they lose it?
• Why did they lose it?

Arabs & Palestinians = Aggressors [A/RES/3314(XXIX)]
Israel = State under assault and coercion. [Chapter VII, Article 51, UN Charter]​

I'm an old man and sometimes get confused. In this case I'm confused.

Most Respectfully,
R