Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't take it personally.

Indeed, he has the Israeli version down pat.

Sorry Rocco, nothing personal.

(COMMENT)

I suppose, if you search hard enough, you'll be able to find a Posting where I might have cited a pro-Israeli site. But 98% of the time, I use neutral citations and documents. Relative to this discussion (pertaining to Israeli Sovereignty or borders and Palestinian Terrorism), I have never used a pro-Israel approach or citation. I have used, almost exclusively, UN documents or official documents from a member of the Arab League or web site; and occasionally something from the open source media.

I'm not at all concerned that someone might challenge my integrity.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't take it personally.

Indeed, he has the Israeli version down pat.

Sorry Rocco, nothing personal.

(COMMENT)

I suppose, if you search hard enough, you'll be able to find a Posting where I might have cited a pro-Israeli site. But 98% of the time, I use neutral citations and documents. Relative to this discussion (pertaining to Israeli Sovereignty or borders and Palestinian Terrorism), I have never used a pro-Israel approach or citation. I have used, almost exclusively, UN documents or official documents from a member of the Arab League or web site; and occasionally something from the open source media.

I'm not at all concerned that someone might challenge my integrity.

Most Respectfully,
R

I am not questioning your sources. I question the relevancy.

Your last UN link ( United Nations General Assembly Adopts Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism ) was about international terrorism. How does that apply to the Palestinians who have not attacked outside their own territory for 40 years?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circle I was telling you about.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't take it personally.

Indeed, he has the Israeli version down pat.

Sorry Rocco, nothing personal.

(COMMENT)

I suppose, if you search hard enough, you'll be able to find a Posting where I might have cited a pro-Israeli site. But 98% of the time, I use neutral citations and documents. Relative to this discussion (pertaining to Israeli Sovereignty or borders and Palestinian Terrorism), I have never used a pro-Israel approach or citation. I have used, almost exclusively, UN documents or official documents from a member of the Arab League or web site; and occasionally something from the open source media.

I'm not at all concerned that someone might challenge my integrity.

Most Respectfully,
R

I am not questioning your sources. I question the relevancy.

Your last UN link ( United Nations General Assembly Adopts Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism ) was about international terrorism. How does that apply to the Palestinians who have not attacked outside their own territory for 40 years?

(COMMENT)

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

So we end the discussion here; as I said in Post # 686. You are following HAMAS and PNA doctrine.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.

SOURCE: Rule of Law -----------> or -----------> General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXXV) of 24 October 1970

I think it depends on whether you read and understand the law, or, HAMAS. But any attack on Israel is "international." This is why the Palestinians need contained and quarantined.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circle I was telling you about.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't take it personally.


(COMMENT)

I suppose, if you search hard enough, you'll be able to find a Posting where I might have cited a pro-Israeli site. But 98% of the time, I use neutral citations and documents. Relative to this discussion (pertaining to Israeli Sovereignty or borders and Palestinian Terrorism), I have never used a pro-Israel approach or citation. I have used, almost exclusively, UN documents or official documents from a member of the Arab League or web site; and occasionally something from the open source media.

I'm not at all concerned that someone might challenge my integrity.

Most Respectfully,
R

I am not questioning your sources. I question the relevancy.

Your last UN link ( United Nations General Assembly Adopts Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism ) was about international terrorism. How does that apply to the Palestinians who have not attacked outside their own territory for 40 years?

(COMMENT)

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

So we end the discussion here; as I said in Post # 686. You are following HAMAS and PNA doctrine.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.

SOURCE: Rule of Law -----------> or -----------> General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXXV) of 24 October 1970

I think it depends on whether you read and understand the law, or, HAMAS. But any attack on Israel is "international." This is why the Palestinians need contained and quarantined.

Most Respectfully,
R

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

 

[Hoffstra]

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

The UN recognizes Israel acquisition of land during the 1948 War.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

The UN recognizes Israel acquisition of land during the 1948 War.

The 1949 UN armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. No Palestinian territory was transferred to Egypt, Jordan, or Israel.

 

[Hoffstra]

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

The UN recognizes Israel acquisition of land during the 1948 War.

The 1949 UN armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. No Palestinian territory was transferred to Egypt, Jordan, or Israel.

I say again, in 1949 the UN recognized Israel as a member state, within the 1949 armistice lines.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The UN recognizes Israel acquisition of land during the 1948 War.

The 1949 UN armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. No Palestinian territory was transferred to Egypt, Jordan, or Israel.

I say again, in 1949 the UN recognized Israel as a member state, within the 1949 armistice lines.

On the UN's own map of Israel they have a disclaimer on the validity of territory and borders.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I understand that you don't recognize GA/RES/181(II) or any of the Treaties or Armistice Lines. After all, it is part of HAMAS and Palestinian Policy.

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circle I was telling you about.

I am not questioning your sources. I question the relevancy.

Your last UN link ( United Nations General Assembly Adopts Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism ) was about international terrorism. How does that apply to the Palestinians who have not attacked outside their own territory for 40 years?

(COMMENT)

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

So we end the discussion here; as I said in Post # 686. You are following HAMAS and PNA doctrine.

I think it depends on whether you read and understand the law, or, HAMAS. But any attack on Israel is "international." This is why the Palestinians need contained and quarantined.

Most Respectfully,
R

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

(OBSERVATION)

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;​

SOURCE: S/RES/242 22 November 1967

(COMMENT)

FIRST:

If you go to the Web Site for the document, you will find the UN linked the Map for S/RES/242 (1967) to the word "territories;" just as I have, supra.
​

NOTE: And please, don't use that lame excuse about the Secretariat's disclaimer. The Secretariat is only saying the map is not their product, and that they are not the proponent (the Security Council). The map resolution is not sufficient enough to make exact boundaries calls. ​

SECOND:

Palestine (The State of) only acquired territory on 16 November 1988 when it Declared Independence through the PLO. Prior to that, Palestine (The State of) did not exist and had no boundaries.​

While it is true that the Territory covered by the Former Mandate of Palestine had boundaries made at the discretion of the Allied Powers (treaty authority - Article 95), the Palestinian had no sovereignty over that territory in trust. The Palestinian of today has no claim - such as you make - to international boundaries beyond the scope of GA/RES/181(II) as recognized by the PLO in the 1988 Declaration of Independence, and reaffirmed by the Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine to the United Nations; and subsequently modified by wars as documented by S/RES/242 (1967) and the associated map.

Since you frivolously challenge every single document; which documents do you use to substantiate your claims?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I understand that you don't recognize GA/RES/181(II) or any of the Treaties or Armistice Lines. After all, it is part of HAMAS and Palestinian Policy.

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circle I was telling you about.


(COMMENT)

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

So we end the discussion here; as I said in Post # 686. You are following HAMAS and PNA doctrine.

I think it depends on whether you read and understand the law, or, HAMAS. But any attack on Israel is "international." This is why the Palestinians need contained and quarantined.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

(OBSERVATION)

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;​

SOURCE: S/RES/242 22 November 1967

(COMMENT)

FIRST:

If you go to the Web Site for the document, you will find the UN linked the Map for S/RES/242 (1967) to the word "territories;" just as I have, supra.
​

NOTE: And please, don't use that lame excuse about the Secretariat's disclaimer. The Secretariat is only saying the map is not their product, and that they are not the proponent (the Security Council). The map resolution is not sufficient enough to make exact boundaries calls. ​

SECOND:

Palestine (The State of) only acquired territory on 16 November 1988 when it Declared Independence through the PLO. Prior to that, Palestine (The State of) did not exist and had no boundaries.​

While it is true that the Territory covered by the Former Mandate of Palestine had boundaries made at the discretion of the Allied Powers (treaty authority - Article 95), the Palestinian had no sovereignty over that territory in trust. The Palestinian of today has no claim - such as you make - to international boundaries beyond the scope of GA/RES/181(II) as recognized by the PLO in the 1988 Declaration of Independence, and reaffirmed by the Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine to the United Nations; and subsequently modified by wars as documented by S/RES/242 (1967) and the associated map.

Since you frivolously challenge every single document; which documents do you use to substantiate your claims?

Most Respectfully,
R

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

v/r
R[/QUOTE]

Could you quote the passage where Israel acquired territory.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

What game are you playing?

Could you quote the passage where Israel acquired territory.

(COMMENT)

"UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947"

v/r
R

 

[toastman]

Could you quote where it says that Israel needs to 'acquire' territory from the Palestinians (even though they had no sovereignty over the land) in order for the land in which they declared Israel to be in in 1948 to be legit ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN and the partition plan had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. It was a unilateral move.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN and the partition plan had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. It was a unilateral move.

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan (among many other countries). Why would the U.N recognize and accept it, if it wasn't legit ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).




(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN and the partition plan had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. It was a unilateral move.

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan (among many other countries). Why would the U.N recognize and accept it, if it wasn't legit ?

No they didn't.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't understand.

The UN and the partition plan had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. It was a unilateral move.

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan (among many other countries). Why would the U.N recognize and accept it, if it wasn't legit ?

No they didn't.

(QUESTION)

Who didn't do what?

v/r
R

 

[toastman]

Rocco, did the U.N not recognize Israel's declaration of independence in 1948 ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't understand.

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan (among many other countries). Why would the U.N recognize and accept it, if it wasn't legit ?

No they didn't.

(QUESTION)

Who didn't do what?

v/r
R

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan...

No they didn't.