Is It Time To DEFAULT On the DEBT And Start Over?

[Tom Horn]

Sure....

So tell me what yields on debt reflect........

and tell me where yield on US sovereign debt is relative to its historical average....

direct responses, eschew excess verbiage....

On what...Treasuries? Junk bonds? Cattle futures? Eschew this, nitwit:

 

[IcebergSlim]

Sure....

So tell me what yields on debt reflect........

and tell me where yield on US sovereign debt is relative to its historical average....

direct responses, eschew excess verbiage....

On what...Treasuries? Junk bonds? Cattle futures? Eschew this, nitwit:

Yields is yields....Cattle futures are not debt instruments....

now why don't you demonstrate what you know....

 

[Tom Horn]

Yields is yields....Cattle futures are not debt instruments....

now why don't you demonstrate what you know....

Hey, I have no idea what you're trying and failing to accomplish in my thread but it's gotten tiresome. The yield of a debt instrument is the overall rate of return available on the investment. Now run along and play with your toes or whatever.

 

[IcebergSlim]

Yields is yields....Cattle futures are not debt instruments....

now why don't you demonstrate what you know....

Hey, I have no idea what you're trying and failing to accomplish in my thread but it's gotten tiresome. The yield of a debt instrument is the overall rate of return available on the investment. Now run along and play with your toes or whatever.

Listen, you f...ing brick......

yields on debt reflect

a) time value of money

b) inflation expectations

c) default risk....

US sovereign debt is trading at historically low yields......if there was an expectation of default on the part of USG yields would soar...the spread between Treasuries and junk bond yields reflects the difference in the relative risks of default......

A component of cattle futures pricing is the risk free rate.....but they have no "yield"....

now you know more than you did when you started reading this post...stay in the shallow end of the pool

Thank me later...

 

[Mac1958]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

Who do you think owns our debt?

DEBT OWNED BY UNITED STATES AGENCIES

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

DEBT OWNED BY THE PUBLIC

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, February 3, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

Do you think we should screw these people over? And what would happen to our credit rating for the future?

China can do whatever it wants with our bonds. We sold them to China, that's our own fault.

Source: The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You
.

Who's got better credit than somebody with ZERO debt and hundreds of ICBMs? The pensions and SS/Medicare can easily be funded with new debt. All foreign debt is gone and we must do it before China can react militarily. The rest we can handle with tax revenue and tariffs that squeeze out foreign manufacturing; we'll make our own products again. And if the Fortune 500 hasn't moved their entire production back to US soil within 6 months, they can have their inventories seized as contraband and be banned from selling in the US for ten years.....they'll RUN back home. Then there's the matter of a Constitutionally mandated balanced budget and never again to run debt past $3T. This is RADICAL...the alternative is we become a third-world, crime-ridden collection of fifedoms and warlords.

So you would just default on our loans. All the Americans who have their retirement funds in Treasuries, seniors living off interest, banks, pension funds and 401Ks and charities and life insurers and annuities, foreign countries who trusted us, on and on.

Preposterous.
.

 

[IcebergSlim]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

Who do you think owns our debt?

DEBT OWNED BY UNITED STATES AGENCIES

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

DEBT OWNED BY THE PUBLIC

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, February 3, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

Do you think we should screw these people over? And what would happen to our credit rating for the future?

China can do whatever it wants with our bonds. We sold them to China, that's our own fault.

Source: The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You
.

Who's got better credit than somebody with ZERO debt and hundreds of ICBMs? The pensions and SS/Medicare can easily be funded with new debt. All foreign debt is gone and we must do it before China can react militarily. The rest we can handle with tax revenue and tariffs that squeeze out foreign manufacturing; we'll make our own products again. And if the Fortune 500 hasn't moved their entire production back to US soil within 6 months, they can have their inventories seized as contraband and be banned from selling in the US for ten years.....they'll RUN back home. Then there's the matter of a Constitutionally mandated balanced budget and never again to run debt past $3T. This is RADICAL...the alternative is we become a third-world, crime-ridden collection of fifedoms and warlords.

So you would just default on our loans. All the Americans who have their retirement funds in Treasuries, seniors living off interest, banks, pension funds and 401Ks and charities and life insurers and annuities, foreign countries who trusted us, on and on.

Preposterous.
.

He'd default on the debt.......but then he'd sell you NEW debt to replace the old debt, see?

The Supply Side Fairy makes anything possible....

 

[Indeependent]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

Who do you think owns our debt?

DEBT OWNED BY UNITED STATES AGENCIES

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

DEBT OWNED BY THE PUBLIC

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, February 3, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

Do you think we should screw these people over? And what would happen to our credit rating for the future?

China can do whatever it wants with our bonds. We sold them to China, that's our own fault.

Source: The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You
.

Who's got better credit than somebody with ZERO debt and hundreds of ICBMs? The pensions and SS/Medicare can easily be funded with new debt. All foreign debt is gone and we must do it before China can react militarily. The rest we can handle with tax revenue and tariffs that squeeze out foreign manufacturing; we'll make our own products again. And if the Fortune 500 hasn't moved their entire production back to US soil within 6 months, they can have their inventories seized as contraband and be banned from selling in the US for ten years.....they'll RUN back home. Then there's the matter of a Constitutionally mandated balanced budget and never again to run debt past $3T. This is RADICAL...the alternative is we become a third-world, crime-ridden collection of fifedoms and warlords.

So you would just default on our loans. All the Americans who have their retirement funds in Treasuries, seniors living off interest, banks, pension funds and 401Ks and charities and life insurers and annuities, foreign countries who trusted us, on and on.

Preposterous.
.

You are referring to the old farts who wanted cheap foreign made goods at the expense of younger Americans having careers and jobs?
Fuck 'em!

 

[Tom Horn]

So you would just default on our loans. All the Americans who have their retirement funds in Treasuries, seniors living off interest, banks, pension funds and 401Ks and charities and life insurers and annuities, foreign countries who trusted us, on and on.

Preposterous.
.

What's "preposterous" is it will happen by force or another $3-4T in accumulated debt. I've already explained how SS/Medicare and pensions would be made whole. The stock market need not be affected by default so that's off your list. And as to foreign countries? The same ones that take our military and financial aid and then ignore us when we ask for coalitions on terror? Everybody gets a mulligan and it's time we took ours. We can do it the easy way or the hard way but default is coming...we simply can't stop it so why not do a preemptive strike on the monster before it eats us alive?

 

[Dovahkiin]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

 

[Care4all]

NO, NO and NO.

 

[IcebergSlim]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

Dude,


You aimed wayyyyyy over Tom's pointy chapeau..

 

[Dovahkiin]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

Dude,


You aimed wayyyyyy over Tom's pointy chapeau..

Explain.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So why wait until the magic number is reached?

dear, if we default on debt

1) we could not borrow again. Taxes would go way up; maybe triple.

2) Panic selling would cause instant Depression.

3) untrusted govt could not help since it could not be trusted.

Only an idiot would suggest it seriously!.

 

[IcebergSlim]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

Dude,


You aimed wayyyyyy over Tom's pointy chapeau..

Explain.

The advantages of a Sovereign issuer of the world's reserve currency......and money growth?

Tom struggles with Intro to Debt 101

 

[IcebergSlim]

So why wait until the magic number is reached?

dear, if we default on debt

1) we could not borrow again. Taxes would go way up; maybe triple.

2) Panic selling would cause instant Depression.

3) untrusted govt could not help since it could not be trusted.

Only an idiot would suggest it seriously!.

Meet Tom Horn...

 

[Dovahkiin]

We're currently at $19.3T under water with no end in sight. Some say the tipping point is $22T which should occur sometime in 2018. What would happen if we just said "screw it" and defaulted? For one thing, anybody holding Treasuries would be SOL...that includes our biggest debtor nation, China. China has been divesting itself of USTs in the last year knowing a default is on the horizon. And it is. At $22T we can no longer field an effective Military. At $22T the interest payment on the debt will swallow most of the funds used by various federal agencies, leaving us like Greece. So why wait until the magic number is reached?

What happens if the United States does not pay its public (national) debt of 18 trillion dollars? - Quora

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

Dude,


You aimed wayyyyyy over Tom's pointy chapeau..

Explain.

The advantages of a Sovereign issuer of the world's reserve currency......and money growth?

Tom struggles with Intro to Debt 101

Ah, I see.

 

[HenryBHough]

Default is not a smart option.

It results in long drawn out messy court cases (international courts).

Better is The Argentine Method.

Simply repudiate the currency.

All it takes is an executive order. To the effect that, as of some set date, all existing U.S. Dollars may be exchanged for NEW Dollars. New design- new pictures on them. Maybe even a new color. Perhaps pink.

The exchange will pay one NEW dollar for every 100 old dollars up to a maximum of 10,000 allowed to be exchange. Any excess? Confiscated for your own good. The confiscated trillions to be used to pay off the old debts - denominated in old dollars. Those receiving them, of course, free to exchange them for NEW dollars - at the official exchange rate - IF they move fast enough to beat the deadline.

 

[Tom Horn]

The advantages of a Sovereign issuer of the world's reserve currency......and money growth?

Tom struggles with Intro to Debt 101

The only one "struggling" here is you, fool. Trying to divert the conversation to "sovereign issuer or the world's reserve currency" is simply blithering. Try to focus Slim....you do understand we are buried in debt and about to be unable to function without draconian cuts or a simple default and reset, right? Slim? Tower to Slim, over?

 

[Tom Horn]

In regards to your "under water" point. What do you think the national debt actually is? What makes you think a nation sovereign in its own currency that's no where near full output will default on the "debt" which I refuse to refer to as a debt as we like to see it. What makes you think at 22 trillion everything will collapse? The us government can create dollars from thin air, and inflation is not an issue in regards to the united states right now.
What makes you think we have to take from our other obligations to "pay off" interest? We don't.
Money Growth Does Not Cause Inflation!

Ah, so we can just inflate our way out of it by issuing worthless greenbacks? And where does that end? Then you say "inflation is not an issue right now" as if your "run the money presses" won't destroy our currency like what brought Hitler to power in post-war Germany when Gerry was taking boxes of Marks to the market for bread and milk. Wise up, dope. We can't expect an economic surge to "grow our way out of this" without my suggestions above. Unless and until US manufacturing is returned to American soil and the millions of lost jobs and taxpayers restored, we'll remain a service economy being hijacked by the slants. You might want to stop denying the debt, the percentage of GDP it's eating, and face the facts.

 

[g5000]

The repercussions of defaulting are way too disastrous for us to do so.

We are simply one good budget away from fixing all this shit. We just need to elect some politicians with balls.

Someone like Kasich.

But we prefer batshit crazy hucksters instead.