Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[Quantum Windbag]

EXCEPT- that the Church accepts payments from the government and tax breaks and serves clients that the government sends them.

If the CHurch entirely self-insured AND only employed Church members and were only engaged in church business, then you might have a stronger case as to why they could make their own rules.

but they don't.

It is a slippery slope and major gray area when it comes to religion.

I used to manage a team of 10 programmers. My company did not recognize Jewish holidays. But I still had to let my Jewish employees off on those days. Why is it I had to do? In fact, every company I ever worked for had to let its Jewish employees off.

I also had a Muslim on my team at one point and she would leave meetings and such to go pray. I never questioned it even though my company didn't have a policy for it.

There is no law for any of these examples I gave. But I had to make accommodations for it. In much the same way, I expect the Government to not interfere with Catholic beliefs regardless of tax breaks, clients etc.

The Government is free to send the church clients and ask the church to help. But they do so understanding what the Catholic faith is about.

Does Obama really want to uncover this can of worms it could set off?

Again, given that 98% of sexually active Catholic chicks practice some kind of family planning, the CHurch is in opposition to its membership, so it really doesn't cost Obama anything to pick this fight.

You seem to think churches are supposed to follow people and the world. Can you show me that in the Bible?

 

[California Girl]

Libs will go out of their way not to offend muslims, see the treatment of UBL's body, they don't mind crapping on Christians when they get the chance....it's all because they know muslims will blow things up when pissed off.

Only ignorant assholes like you. Your side is the ONLY ones bringing up Islam Nice Strawman too bad it doesn't hold water... well, maybe it does in your borderline paranoid schizophrenic minds.

Just so you know, American Muslims have sided with the Catholic Church on this issue. I guess all that sucking up to them hasn't paid off for the boiking.

 

[Steelplate]

I guess conservatives trust nature more than new ideas like the ones Hitler Stalin and Mao had. Plus birth control is really love control.
Instead of loving the person with whom you have sex, loving the baby that results, and forming a family, you have sex with strangers and kill the baby.

Which culture is better?

Ummmm... please explain this part? I know that China had mandated abortions.... but "enlighten" me on the other two. Nevermind...Googled it....

Here's the difference, slick....

China Mandated Abortion.

Nazi Germany felt that a woman's body belonged to the state and the state would decide on the fate of her pregnancy.

Stalin? You may want to read up on him...He banned abortion because he wanted to stimulate the population...after his death in 1955, the USSR lifted the ban.

The one thing all three of those countries had in common....a lack of choice....something that the Conservative viewpoint has more in common than the progressive's pro-choice viewpoint.

You are wrong, the gov't made the choice in all of those countries. That is what is occurring here. Currently, the liberals/progressives/socialists/communists/islamist extremists/homosexual activists/environmentalists are all for it, but when some one is in power (that they have given the "authority" to regulate their lives), they will be crying about how wrong it is.
That is where conservatives are different. Most of us see gov't as a way to enforce civilization on thugs. We do not see gov't as a way to control the masses. We believe that most people are capable of living their own lives without gov't interferance. If you want to start a company that pays for prostitutes, birth control, and abortion, (as long as it is legal), we will NOT use force to stop you (we might protest you or bring your actions into the light of day), but it will be your choice. We figure the Lord gave you the ability to reason, and if you choose not to use that ability, it will be between you and the Lord.

Ok... you are an idiot. That's exactly what I said... the people didn't have a choice in their reproductive rights in those countries... I am not wrong. We do have a choice here in the USA... and YOUR side wants to take that choice away.

The way I figure it, The Lord is my God and will do the judging..If someone asks my opinion or advice, I will gladly give it. But I will NOT take the CHOICE away from them...that's not my job and it's not yours.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh... we're all about CHOICE... it's the Conservatives that have an issue with Choice...especially when it pertains to OTHER people's sins.

Where is the "choice" in Obamacare?

The "choice" is the taxpayer shouldn't be stuck with the bill. You are mandated to buy car insurance. And the only reason for that it to protect others from your miserable choices. Same with health care. Ever notice how many Republicans are old and gienormous.

And don't say some stupid shit like, "Well then don't drive".

How many times are people going to try that car insurance coverage line?

Let me do a thought exercise here and assume that people should be required to purchase insurance to protect the public from absorbing the cost of medical care. Can you explain why the public has to pay for doctors visits, birth control, or any other non emergency treatment? Why not just require people to have insurance that covers emergencies and potential catastrophic care, which is what the public actually has to pay for if someone doesn't have money. Last time I checked no one was on the hook for me not having access to the pill.

 

[Intense]

Oh... we're all about CHOICE... it's the Conservatives that have an issue with Choice...especially when it pertains to OTHER people's sins.

So the left see the beautiful acts of making and conceiving a baby a sin? Some of you fuckers really do disgust me.
Which would be the more serious sin to you?
1) Creating a baby.
2) Murdering it because you did not want it or want the responsibility of having one.

Nice spin asshole... The left have come to the realization that accidents fucking happen, and unwanted babies who the right want to let fucking starve is much less merciful than having them never be born... If it's the woman's CHOICE.

You've yet to prove it's murder, so..fuck you on that one. That's your interpretation... but once again... "the right" is always right(in their eyes). They are legends in their own minds.

To answer your question...they are both potentially sins. The sin of Fornication(having immoral sex..ie...not being married) and murdering a baby are both sins in God's eyes... BTW...Pride is a sin, vanity is a sin, Envy is a sin, Greed is a sin... funny how you guys don't give a shit about those sins though... But I assure you, God does.

Wow. You ought to start your own Church. The unfortunate statistics regarding Abortion indicate Genocide. Why is that. What is it about our Culture that creates such numbers?

Out of 115,008 Abortions in New York State, in 2009,
27, 646 had 1 previous Abortion,
16, 346 had 2 previous Abortions,
8,220 had 3 previous Abortions,
3,930 had 4 previous Abortions,
4,342 had 5+ previous Abortions.

http://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2009/table19.htm

Real impressive.

You are so Good on Morals and Ethics. Tell us more.

 

[Steelplate]

Libs will go out of their way not to offend muslims, see the treatment of UBL's body, they don't mind crapping on Christians when they get the chance....it's all because they know muslims will blow things up when pissed off.

Only ignorant assholes like you. Your side is the ONLY ones bringing up Islam Nice Strawman too bad it doesn't hold water... well, maybe it does in your borderline paranoid schizophrenic minds.

Just so you know, American Muslims have sided with the Catholic Church on this issue. I guess all that sucking up to them hasn't paid off for the boiking.

I don't care what American Muslims do or don't do... They aren't of any concern to me. I get sick and tired of being told that I hate Christians(of which I am one) and Muslims(which I don't hate, but don't fucking care either).

It's a bullshit talking point that just about EVERY fucking one of you wingnuts employ. You think WE lib'ruls play the "racist" card a lot? Fuck...You guys have the Commie Pinko Muslim lover thing as your standard bearer.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The one thing all three of those countries had in common....a lack of choice....something that the Conservative viewpoint has more in common than the progressive's pro-choice viewpoint.

its true, social conservatives don't want you to have a choice about killing your baby. It seems unnatural to them, at the least, to interfere with or not conserve natures intent.

Moreover they are for love; not cheap sex and then killing the baby.
Would you rather have a conservative culture based on love or a liberal culture based on cheap sex and murder?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually American Catholics believe in using birth control in about the same percentages as the rest of American population. However, when it comes to the morning-after pill and force coverages that are against church teachings, even those that in general are for birth control are drawing a line.

What this decision will result in is the schools, hospitals, clinics, other services provided by Catholic Charities, being staffed and serving only Catholics. Is that really what is wanted? The decision may be overturned by the courts, as it should be. The Church may cave, but in that case, the Church is no longer The Church.

I'm aware of how American Catholics live, thanks. I'm aware that many use birth control, and I know that, while the Church disapproves, it does not condemn them for it. As you say, there are lines... the morning after pill and abortion.... those are the other side of that line. We cannot and will not fund them. I don't see any way in hell that the Church will back down. It never has before.

As you point out... it is the most needy who will suffer the consequences of this stupidity by Obama. My Church does more for those people than any other organization - apart from the federal Government. Do they really want to have to spend yet more taxpayers money providing services that are currently being provided - and to a large part, funded - by the Church?

Churches in 28 States are already under this law. They backed down.

28? I thought it was 5. Did you find that mystical time machine that lets you rewrite history?

 

[Harry Dresden]

BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.

so are a lot of Priests.....

 

[Steelplate]

So the left see the beautiful acts of making and conceiving a baby a sin? Some of you fuckers really do disgust me.
Which would be the more serious sin to you?
1) Creating a baby.
2) Murdering it because you did not want it or want the responsibility of having one.

Nice spin asshole... The left have come to the realization that accidents fucking happen, and unwanted babies who the right want to let fucking starve is much less merciful than having them never be born... If it's the woman's CHOICE.

You've yet to prove it's murder, so..fuck you on that one. That's your interpretation... but once again... "the right" is always right(in their eyes). They are legends in their own minds.

To answer your question...they are both potentially sins. The sin of Fornication(having immoral sex..ie...not being married) and murdering a baby are both sins in God's eyes... BTW...Pride is a sin, vanity is a sin, Envy is a sin, Greed is a sin... funny how you guys don't give a shit about those sins though... But I assure you, God does.

Wow. You ought to start your own Church. The unfortunate statistics regarding Abortion indicate Genocide. Why is that. What is it about our Culture that creates such numbers?

Out of 115,008 Abortions in New York State, in 2009,
27, 646 had 1 previous Abortion,
16, 346 had 2 previous Abortions,
8,220 had 3 previous Abortions,
3,930 had 4 previous Abortions,
4,342 had 5+ previous Abortions.

Table 19: Induced Abortion Summary by Woman's Race/Ethnicity - New York State 2009

Real impressive.

You are so Good on Morals and Ethics. Tell us more.

What gives you the right to ban shit that doesn't concern you? Tell me more. Like I said.. you're all about other people's sins, but ignore your own... You fucking worship the greedy like Demigods are prideful, judgmental pricks.... Don't worry, God's writing all that shit down too. Sin is sin in God's eye... there is no one sin worse than others. That's you rationalizing.

 

[Steelplate]

The one thing all three of those countries had in common....a lack of choice....something that the Conservative viewpoint has more in common than the progressive's pro-choice viewpoint.

its true, social conservatives don't want you to have a choice about killing your baby. It seems unnatural to them, at the least, to interfere with or not conserve natures intent.

Moreover they are for love; not cheap sex and then killing the baby.
Would you rather have a conservative culture based on love or a liberal culture based on cheap sex and murder?

No, you're not for love... You have no concept of love apparently. Because an "I got mine, you get yours"/Let them eat cake philosophy has NOTHING to do with love and is based on greed and hardened hearts.

Cheap sex? happens... I am sure that one as Pious as you has never had pre-marital sex and was a virgin up until your wedding day.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama's toxic waste to Moderates, Jews and now Christians...how does he even allow an election in November?

 

[Rocko]

This is pure fascism folks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree. The choice to take federal funds for hospitals, even the use of state approved school texts and bus services was a mistake, IMO. That is where it's gotten to this point. It can be reversed simply by becoming Catholic services ONLY. If the urban poor wish to send their kids to Catholic schools, they can convert to the faith. Catholics in general then should make their primary charity giving Catholic based.

What a set-up.... As soon as the Catholic charities started turning away non-Catholics, you would be joining the band screaming "discrimmination"!
You have people that using charity treat people without discrimmination, the best ways they know. Some (soon to be all if Obamacare is not repealed) of those people are covered by gov't insurance. Your advice: don't take money for services rendered, because the gov't pays for other services you don't offer. This is like refusing to pay a transmission shop because they will not do body work and paint your car.

No, you've got it wrong. The acceptance of Medicare/Medicaid, the acceptance of state provided texts, government funding to help provide charitable meals, clinics, etc., has given the government the right to coerce participation in providing a low-cost product that the institution, if not all the members, find morally reprehensible.

The administration drew the lines clearly: If the service is staffed by members of the religion and services are provided to those of the religion; they do not need to provide that particular coverage. The answer is simple, stop providing the services and employing those not in that group.

The Church's problem in this has been 'social justice' trying to help those that need it.

I oppose the social agenda of the Catholic Church myself, that does not mean I want the government dictating it for them. Catholic charities and hospitals provide services to areas that are not served by government agencies. Forcing them to stop helping people will increase the cost of health care, government spending, and give everyone fewer choices. If a radical right wing president later decides that services that provide help to gay and lesbians have to choose between continuing what they do and accepting government requirements to provide insurance that covers cures for homosexuality everyone who supports this particular ruling will be up in arms, and none of them will have a leg to stand on because they already set a precedent.

That makes everyone who supports this an idiot. Prove you are not an idiot.

 

[California Girl]

BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.

so are a lot of Priests.....

Again with this bullshit? Seriously?

 

[California Girl]

Actually American Catholics believe in using birth control in about the same percentages as the rest of American population. However, when it comes to the morning-after pill and force coverages that are against church teachings, even those that in general are for birth control are drawing a line.

What this decision will result in is the schools, hospitals, clinics, other services provided by Catholic Charities, being staffed and serving only Catholics. Is that really what is wanted? The decision may be overturned by the courts, as it should be. The Church may cave, but in that case, the Church is no longer The Church.

I'm aware of how American Catholics live, thanks. I'm aware that many use birth control, and I know that, while the Church disapproves, it does not condemn them for it. As you say, there are lines... the morning after pill and abortion.... those are the other side of that line. We cannot and will not fund them. I don't see any way in hell that the Church will back down. It never has before.

As you point out... it is the most needy who will suffer the consequences of this stupidity by Obama. My Church does more for those people than any other organization - apart from the federal Government. Do they really want to have to spend yet more taxpayers money providing services that are currently being provided - and to a large part, funded - by the Church?

Churches in 28 States are already under this law. They backed down.

Churches? There is only one Catholic Church. What other denominations choose to do is their business.

 

[Trajan]

So the left see the beautiful acts of making and conceiving a baby a sin? Some of you fuckers really do disgust me.
Which would be the more serious sin to you?
1) Creating a baby.
2) Murdering it because you did not want it or want the responsibility of having one.

Nice spin asshole... The left have come to the realization that accidents fucking happen, and unwanted babies who the right want to let fucking starve is much less merciful than having them never be born... If it's the woman's CHOICE.

You've yet to prove it's murder, so..fuck you on that one. That's your interpretation... but once again... "the right" is always right(in their eyes). They are legends in their own minds.

To answer your question...they are both potentially sins. The sin of Fornication(having immoral sex..ie...not being married) and murdering a baby are both sins in God's eyes... BTW...Pride is a sin, vanity is a sin, Envy is a sin, Greed is a sin... funny how you guys don't give a shit about those sins though... But I assure you, God does.

Wow. You ought to start your own Church. The unfortunate statistics regarding Abortion indicate Genocide. Why is that. What is it about our Culture that creates such numbers?

Out of 115,008 Abortions in New York State, in 2009,
27, 646 had 1 previous Abortion,
16, 346 had 2 previous Abortions,
8,220 had 3 previous Abortions,
3,930 had 4 previous Abortions,
4,342 had 5+ previous Abortions.

Table 19: Induced Abortion Summary by Woman's Race/Ethnicity - New York State 2009

Real impressive.

You are so Good on Morals and Ethics. Tell us more.

Jesus, grim statistics...what is astounding to my mind is, including diseases, ala heart, sickle cell, breast cancer etc. the no. 1 killer of African Americans is....abortion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, you've got it wrong. The acceptance of Medicare/Medicaid, the acceptance of state provided texts, government funding to help provide charitable meals, clinics, etc., has given the government the right to coerce participation in providing a low-cost product that the institution, if not all the members, find morally reprehensible.

That's not what's happening here. It doesn't matter if they accept federal grants or public insurance. These are insurance regulations affecting employers who choose to offer health insurance products to their employees. As a public health matter, health insurance products will be required to remove financial barriers to accessing preventive health services.

Don't bother trying to argue facts, they made up their minds, and are desperately searching for a justification for their position.

The administration drew the lines clearly: If the service is staffed by members of the religion and services are provided to those of the religion; they do not need to provide that particular coverage. The answer is simple, stop providing the services and employing those not in that group.

An alternative would be to stop offering health insurance to employees if that responsibility has proven to be too burdensome--that would seem to make more sense. Or they can keep up the outcry, I'm sure the administration will cave eventually.

Another alternative would be to stop providing services for people of different faiths, which will cause a lot more than a few Catholics to scream in outrage.

 

[Intense]

BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.

so are a lot of Priests.....

You two should get a room.

 

[Trajan]

Oh... we're all about CHOICE... it's the Conservatives that have an issue with Choice...especially when it pertains to OTHER people's sins.

Where is the "choice" in Obamacare?

Well... let's see... the HealthCare industry...Hospitals, Med/Tech, Big Pharma, the Insurance Companies fucked your choice over for you. Everyone was out to get insanely rich off of sick people and it got so out of hand that normal everyday people can barely afford their coverage.

But, that's what happened with the banks, with multinational corporations and Wall Street....everyone trying to make a killing as fast as they can without regard to the repercussions to our Nation. In truth? If you support that agenda... you have no one to blame but yourself...and the "so called" free market.

so the deals opbama made with;

the HealthCare industry...Hospitals, Med/Tech, Big Pharma, the Insurance Companies

is a good thing?