Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[Intense]

Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"

But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.

Over 77 million Catholics attend services in the US. It's the fourth largest denomination in the world. Over 35 million are registered voters. About 54% vote Democrat. I'd say we're doing just fine - despite your personal abandonment of your values. But, hey, thanks for the hysterical hyperbole. It's entertaining.

Okay, you can keep telling yourself that.... of course, when I occassionally go to Catholic family things, I'm not impressed. The Catholic Church is so short on priests that Deacons are doing baptisms now. Not enough priests to go around.

Fact is, on this issue, most catholics support birth control and a slim plurality support abortion rights.

As for church attendence... too bad, so sad.

USATODAY.com - Church struggles with change

Today there are fewer parishes and fewer priests than in 1990 and fewer of the nation's 65 million Catholics in those pews. And there's no sign of return.

The Archdiocese of Boston, epicenter of the crisis, sold chancery property to cover $85 million in settlements last year, and this year will close 67 churches and recast 16 others as new parishes or worship sites without a full-time priest.

Archbishop Sean O'Malley has said the crisis and the reconfiguration plan are "in no way" related. He cites demographic shifts, the priest shortage and aging, crumbling buildings too costly to keep up.

Fargo, N.D., which spent $821,000 on the abuse crisis, will close 23 parishes, but it's because the diocese is short more than 50 priests for its 158 parishes, some with fewer than a dozen families attending Mass.

Superstition and ignorance just don't sell like they used to...

Wow1 It seems you know about as much about the Church as you do about right and wrong.

 

[logical4u]

I agree. The choice to take federal funds for hospitals, even the use of state approved school texts and bus services was a mistake, IMO. That is where it's gotten to this point. It can be reversed simply by becoming Catholic services ONLY. If the urban poor wish to send their kids to Catholic schools, they can convert to the faith. Catholics in general then should make their primary charity giving Catholic based.

What a set-up.... As soon as the Catholic charities started turning away non-Catholics, you would be joining the band screaming "discrimmination"!
You have people that using charity treat people without discrimmination, the best ways they know. Some (soon to be all if Obamacare is not repealed) of those people are covered by gov't insurance. Your advice: don't take money for services rendered, because the gov't pays for other services you don't offer. This is like refusing to pay a transmission shop because they will not do body work and paint your car.

No, you've got it wrong. The acceptance of Medicare/Medicaid, the acceptance of state provided texts, government funding to help provide charitable meals, clinics, etc., has given the government the right to coerce participation in providing a low-cost product that the institution, if not all the members, find morally reprehensible.

The administration drew the lines clearly: If the service is staffed by members of the religion and services are provided to those of the religion; they do not need to provide that particular coverage. The answer is simple, stop providing the services and employing those not in that group.

The Church's problem in this has been 'social justice' trying to help those that need it.

You are correct about "this" administration. It honors very few of the past agreements and operates more like a dictatorship. But you seem to be fine with that. Hope when the next President comes to office that you disagree with, using the same powers this President usurped, you will bow down and kiss his feet also (at that point, that choice, will be gone).

So if someone is older and not using "birth control" their care should not be paid for, because the gov't can produce some welfare queen to claim the hospital turned her down for a "free abortion"? If you have medical facilities, and the "experts" are claiming we are going to have problems with the availability of health care, why would you go out of your way to shut down a faily large percentage of places that provide health care (unless you are interested in controlling and enslaving the population)?

 

[Annie]

Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"

But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.

Over 77 million Catholics attend services in the US. It's the fourth largest denomination in the world. Over 35 million are registered voters. About 54% vote Democrat. I'd say we're doing just fine - despite your personal abandonment of your values. But, hey, thanks for the hysterical hyperbole. It's entertaining.

Okay, you can keep telling yourself that.... of course, when I occassionally go to Catholic family things, I'm not impressed. The Catholic Church is so short on priests that Deacons are doing baptisms now. Not enough priests to go around.

Fact is, on this issue, most catholics support birth control and a slim plurality support abortion rights.

As for church attendence... too bad, so sad.

USATODAY.com - Church struggles with change

Today there are fewer parishes and fewer priests than in 1990 and fewer of the nation's 65 million Catholics in those pews. And there's no sign of return.

The Archdiocese of Boston, epicenter of the crisis, sold chancery property to cover $85 million in settlements last year, and this year will close 67 churches and recast 16 others as new parishes or worship sites without a full-time priest.

Archbishop Sean O'Malley has said the crisis and the reconfiguration plan are "in no way" related. He cites demographic shifts, the priest shortage and aging, crumbling buildings too costly to keep up.

Fargo, N.D., which spent $821,000 on the abuse crisis, will close 23 parishes, but it's because the diocese is short more than 50 priests for its 158 parishes, some with fewer than a dozen families attending Mass.

Superstition and ignorance just don't sell like they used to...

Yep, Obama is playing to his core, anti-religion. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Obama and Joe are ignoring some political reality though; many who do not follow all the church teachings, still self-identify with the Church. In recent decades, most of those votes went to the Democrat candidates, in larger numbers than Protestants:

Why are Catholics Democrats? · Secular Right

 

[Annie]

and speaking of superstition and 'talking to god...':

John Kass: Obama the fundamentalist was giving the Republicans some h-e-double-hockey sticks - chicagotribune.com

Praise the Lord and pass the taxes
President calls on a higher authority while pushing tax policy

John Kass

February 5, 2012
Advertisement

Remember when some 18 percent of Americans thought President Barack Obama was a follower of Islam?

It wasn't true, but it really aggravated Obama's defenders in the media, particularly those militant secularists, and then they cried racism and began pointing their angry fingers.

But now we can put all that to rest because last week, while speaking to some 3,000 pastors at a breakfast, President Obama performed yet another miracle.

He's not only a Christian, but he's been transformed into a Christian fundamentalist.

Obama told the clergy that Jesus Christ would support his policy to increase taxes on those mean philistines who don't suffer unto the poor as the president does.

And I ask you: Who else but a true holy man would ever dare use the Son of God as a rhetorical device to leverage his political opponents?

"I wake up each morning, and I say a brief prayer, and I spend a little time in Scripture and devotion," Obama told the annual gathering of the clergy at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, noting that pastors often stop by or phone him or send him messages so they can pray together.

Right then, if I'd been there, I would have backed away and looked up for darkening clouds and wondered about lightning and ark-building. But they were in a hotel ballroom, and the president was really feeling the spirit.

"I don't stop there. I'd be remiss if I stopped there, if my values were limited to personal moments of prayer or private conversations with pastors or friends," he said. "I must try to make sure that those values motivate me as one leader of this great nation."

See how the presidency transforms a man? Only a few years ago, he had much different views, saying Americans frustrated with the bad economy were religious and "bitter."

"They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," reasoned Obama.

You could just hear the old secular Obama thinking about those superstitious fools, making excuses for them, those clodhoppers holding on to their shotguns, then putting on clean clothes Sunday to enter those special buildings.

You know, those special buildings with the crosses on them. Where the clodhoppers gather and kneel and pray to their deity. So sad, how these frightened peasants are compelled to cleave to such comforting rituals, eh?

But that was the Old Obama at a fundraiser, and cameras weren't invited.

The Obama last week was a new man, telling pastors how he prayed each morning, inviting clergy to come on down to the Oval Office. Do you have any idea what the transformed Obama was doing?

Obama the fundamentalist was giving the Republicans some H-E-double-hockey-sticks.

The president knows he can't satisfy everyone. Some will think him cynical. But I remember the light in the eyes of many of my colleagues when he campaigned, how bright and shiny their faces were as they gazed upon him, tingly and full of hope, writing their stories about the transcendent figure before them.

In Washington last week, surely there was that same light in the room, though it would have been really cool if David Axelrod had released a flock of white doves to alight on the president's fingertips, just to close the deal.

Bright light, particularly the TV kind in the hands of masters, erases shadow and doubt. Who wants to hear that his administration told churches what ministers they could hire and fire — a policy recently struck down by a unanimous vote of the Supreme Court.

Or that recent business of Obama's administration telling Roman Catholic hospitals they must provide birth control to their employees — including abortion-inducing drugs called abortifacients.

If they refuse, they'll face Obamanations and fines and the wrath of White House lawyers.

It's probably nasty of me to think in such terms. Especially when there's such a great image on TV, the president embracing the Gospels and using them to increase taxes.

"I actually think that's going to make economic sense," said Obama. "But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus' teaching that 'for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.'"

Tell it now.

Then he talked about the "biblical call" to help the poor and used that as support of his foreign aid policies. In his public and devout Christian charity, I bet he never once thought that Republican Mitt Romney was vulnerable there, given Romney's stupid gaffe that he cared about the middle class and less about the poor.

Not everyone was thrilled with the president. Republican Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch became upset.

"Someone needs to remind the president that there was only one person who walked on water and he did not occupy the Oval Office," said Hatch from the Senate floor. "I think most Americans would agree that the Gospels are concerned with weightier matters than effective tax rates."

Really? I'm no theologian, so I can't say. But Obama has already performed miracles.

The earnest but inexperienced back bencher from the Illinois Legislature came out of Chicago politics, washed himself of Tony Rezko, proclaimed himself a reformer and was elected president of the United States.

Higher taxes are a miracle well within his grasp.

 

[Annie]

and another example of political reality:

Barone:Obama's isolation leads to skewed decisions | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

It's unusual when a reporter sympathetic to a politician writes a story that makes his subject look bad. But Ryan Lizza of the New Yorker has now done this twice.

The first time was in an article last April on Obama's foreign policy in which he quoted a "top aide" (national security adviser Tom Donilon? It sounds like him) saying that the president was "leading from behind" on Libya. Not what most Americans expect their presidents to do.

Now, in an article based on leaked White House memos marked up by Obama, Lizza has done it again.

Contrarian liberal blogger Mickey Kaus sums it up: "The president's decision-making method--at least as described in this piece--seems to consist of mainly checking boxes on memos his aides have written for him."

A $60 billion cut in the stimulus package? "OK." Use the reconciliation process to pass the health care bill? A check mark in the box labeled "yes."

Include medical malpractice reform in the health care bill? The man who as an Illinois legislator often voted "present" writes, "We should explore it."

According to Lizza, Obama prefers getting information and making decisions by staying up late and reading memos rather than meeting with people -- a temperament that's a liability because face time with the president is one of his major sources of political capital...

As in Chicago, Obama seems to live in a cocoon in which Republicans are largely absent, offscreen actors that no one pays any attention to.

His personal interactions are limited to his liberal Democratic staff -- and to the rich liberals he meets at his frequent fundraising events. He has held more of these than George W. Bush, who in turn held more than Bill Clinton.

Two decisions in particular seem tilted toward rich liberals. One was the disapproval of the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada, even after it survived two environmental impact statements.

Obama says he wants more jobs and to reduce American dependence on oil from unfriendly foreign sources. The pipeline would do both, and is endorsed by labor unions. But Robert Redford doesn't like Canadian tar sands oil. Case closed.

The other astonishing decision was the decree requiring Catholic hospitals and charities' health insurance policies to include coverage for abortion and birth control. Here Obama was spitting in the eyes of millions of Americans and threatening the existence of charitable programs that help millions of people of all faiths.

Catholic bishops responded predictably by requiring priests to read letters opposing the policy. Who's on the other side? The designer-clad ladies Obama encounters at every fundraiser. They want to impose their views on abortion on everyone else.

Obama fundraising seems to be lagging behind its $1 billion goal, and Democrats fear Republicans are closing the fundraising gap. So Obama seems to be concentrating on meeting the demands of rich liberals he spends so much time with.

 

[JoeB131]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

 

[Intense]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

You are projecting. You could say the same thing about the Human Race, with the same effect. Your Bigotry does come out loud and clear though.

 

[Full-Auto]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

I dont know if I would use your method of expression, but you have brought up another sound point.

I was warned as a child to never let myself be alone with a priest. That advice came from my grandparents.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So what's your problem with this. Why should ANY employer be dictate to an employee what his health care should be.

Most Catholics practice birth control, and a lot of employees of Catholic institutions are in fact not even Catholics.

Dictating is the essence of both Obama and ObamaCare.
Thus, he is the prefect candidate for the Left.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

"Most Catholics practice birth control, and a lot of employees of Catholic institutions are in fact not even Catholics."

What does that have to do with dictating healthcare coverage?

 

[jillian]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

not everything owned and run by the catholic church is a religious endeavor. my suggestion on this one would be some compromise. i think the intentions here were good, not "stupid".

 

[sealybobo]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

not everything owned and run by the catholic church is a religious endeavor. my suggestion on this one would be some compromise. i think the intentions here were good, not "stupid".

Newt disagrees with the Catholic church on several things. One being the war in Iraq. And doesn't the Catholic church think Mormonism is a cult?

Mormon's think Catholics are in a cult. I asked them. Because the head of the Catholic church doesn't have the authority from God. That died with Jesus' deciples, or something like that. The authority was never passed on. But when God visited Joseph Smith, or that Mormon founder, whatever his name is, God passed it on to him, or his "deciples". And right now there are people who head the mormon church who supposedly have been passed on this authority.

But none of the other Christian churches have this authority. At least from a mormon's view. I will look forward to discussing this more once Mitt is the nominee. LOL. Divide and win 2012!

 

[Annie]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

not everything owned and run by the catholic church is a religious endeavor. my suggestion on this one would be some compromise. i think the intentions here were good, not "stupid".

I agree that many things run by the church are not religious, other than in a moral sense-Catholicism isn't being taught. Indeed, the very idea of 'social justice' is to care for those in need, without imposing anything other than care.

The logic behind Obama's requirement is that Catholic institutions and services provided by them should be restricted to Catholics. I agree with those that say then they should lose whatever funding comes from government. Granted, all those outlets that cannot be supported by Catholics alone will need to be shut down.

 

[Greenbeard]

and another example of political reality:

Barone:Obama's isolation leads to skewed decisions | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

The other astonishing decision was the decree requiring Catholic hospitals and charities' health insurance policies to include coverage for abortion and birth control. Here Obama was spitting in the eyes of millions of Americans and threatening the existence of charitable programs that help millions of people of all faiths.

Catholic bishops responded predictably by requiring priests to read letters opposing the policy. Who's on the other side? The designer-clad ladies Obama encounters at every fundraiser. They want to impose their views on abortion on everyone else.

There's nothing about coverage for abortion here. You may think emergency contraception is morally equivalent to an abortion, but that's a bit different than falsely implying insurers are required to pay for a woman to go have an abortion.

 

[Intense]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

I dont know if I would use your method of expression, but you have brought up another sound point.

I was warned as a child to never let myself be alone with a priest. That advice came from my grandparents.

A Good Parent should be concerned about leaving a young child alone with anyone. Day Care, Churches, After School Functions, Activities, are supervised for good reason.

 

[Full-Auto]

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

I dont know if I would use your method of expression, but you have brought up another sound point.

I was warned as a child to never let myself be alone with a priest. That advice came from my grandparents.

A Good Parent should be concerned about leaving a young child alone with anyone. Day Care, Churches, After School Functions, Activities, are supervised for good reason.

I was about nine or ten. They never said why. While I agree with your statement , I can say it was not applicable.

 

[California Girl]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

I'm gonna just go with the facts instead of your fictional account of Catholicism. 400,000 priests, and (independent law enforcement and academic research confirmed) 0.03% of priests have ever been accused (not found guilty - just accused).... do the fucking math, moron.

Teachers - more pedophiles than the Catholic Church.

Sports Coaches - more pedophiles than the Catholic Church.

Children's Entertainers - more pedophiles than the Catholic Church.

Youth Workers - more pedophiles than the Catholic Church.

I have a whole bunch more.... but intelligent people will get the point - you won't.

 

[Annie]

and another example of political reality:

Barone:Obama's isolation leads to skewed decisions | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

The other astonishing decision was the decree requiring Catholic hospitals and charities' health insurance policies to include coverage for abortion and birth control. Here Obama was spitting in the eyes of millions of Americans and threatening the existence of charitable programs that help millions of people of all faiths.

Catholic bishops responded predictably by requiring priests to read letters opposing the policy. Who's on the other side? The designer-clad ladies Obama encounters at every fundraiser. They want to impose their views on abortion on everyone else.

There's nothing about coverage for abortion here. You may think emergency contraception is morally equivalent to an abortion, but that's a bit different than falsely implying insurers are required to pay for a woman to go have an abortion.

Yes, the morning-after is an abortifacient. In fact, many Catholic hospitals have and do administer in cases of rape.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

So tell us Joe, how do you like the lifestyle that settlement money is providing your bitter, non-virginal ass?

 

[Full-Auto]

Yea, we got it. You're a bitter ex-Catholic who despises religion. I don't care. You're welcome to your opinions. It's a pity that you cannot recognize others right to hold differing opinions... but stupidity is blinkered.

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

So tell us Joe, how do you like the lifestyle that settlement money is providing your bitter, non-virginal ass?

What the fuck was that?

It is a known fact the church protected their preists. The point that went over your pin head is it was accepted by the members

 

[California Girl]

Shnoookums, you lost any right to "respect" when your clergy molested your children, and you all went along with it.

Sorry, ran fresh out of "respect" at that point. Have plenty of Contempt, though.

Shit, we knew growing up all the priests were kind of funny that way. You didn't want to be alone in a room with one. And this was back in the 1970's.

But you guys kept putting money in the plates to pay off these kids when they grew up and got lawyers.

So tell us Joe, how do you like the lifestyle that settlement money is providing your bitter, non-virginal ass?

What the fuck was that?

It is a known fact the church protected their preists. The point that went over your pin head is it was accepted by the members

Yea, it is a fact. And that is to the Church's shame... and it no longer protects priests who are accused. But the fact also remains that the Church has far less attraction to pedophiles than a huge number of other, secular, professions. I never see any outrage about that.

There are, currently, a number of teachers suspended on full pay (thank the Unions for that) that are charged with child abuse. Full pay. Suspended. Where is the outrage about being protected - funded - by taxpayers?

Where is your outrage about that?