Is Putin bluffing about using nukes? Should NATO call his bluff? (POLL)

[MisterBeale]

How about Putin saying it in intercepted Russian communications and moles in the Kremlin. Those in charge of the CIA clearly know Putin's intentions from those classified sources. And have known it for years.

IOW? You got nothing but western propaganda and lies. Nothing, no proof at all.

 

[kyzr]

There are 30 members of NATO.
How many on the nuclear list are part of NATO?
Hint 3

Even if there was only one, its more than enough for deterrence.
Its a question of "is anyone stupid enough to push their button first?"

 

[MisterBeale]

Now you're a Putin supporter?

They're known about Putin's ambitions for years.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-12-01/vladimir-putin-wants-to-restore-the-soviet-union-former-secretary-of-defense-says

Dec. 1, 2016

Russian President Vladimir Putin's main interest is restoration of the Soviet Union, former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said Thursday.

"Let's not kid anybody," said Panetta, who also served as CIA director and White House chief of staff. "Putin's main interest is to try to restore the old Soviet Union. I mean that's what drives him."

He is clearly trying to prevent the countries of the former Soviet Union from joining NATO and working with the European Union," Panetta said in 2015.

President-elect Donald Trump suggested the U.S. accept Russia's annexation of Crimea, and argued the U.S. should work with Russia, if possible.

No, I am not a Putin supporter. Just because I am critical of propaganda, does not make me a supporter of any particular state. I see you could not refute what I asked, so you just gave more propaganda, to reinforce the narrative for the low IQ, dumbed down masses. Noice.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223110128/http://carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php

THE CIA AND THE MEDIA

How Americas Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up

The American Empire and its Media​

The American Empire and its Media

Largely unbeknownst to the general public, executives and top journalists of almost all major US news outlets have long been members of the influential Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

swprs.org

"[2] In 1996, it was none other than the CFR which recommended a closer cooperation between the CIA and the media, i.e. a restart of the famous CIA Operation Mockingbird."

US gov’t knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene​

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

multipolarista.com

". . . Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.. . .

Burns’ warnings came true just a few years later.. . ."

Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

The CIA knew what it was doing. . . it wanted war, it was trying to trigger one, and it got one.

Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault​

The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin​

Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault

The liberal delusions that provoked Putin.

www.foreignaffairs.com

So? As you can see. . . trusting the pronouncements of the CIA. . . for anyone that is uninformed, might be OK. But for anyone that reads and is paying attention, would know better. They are the folks that are lying to the entire world about this whole situation to begin with. .


It has nothing to do with being a "Putin," supporter, it has to do with understanding the needs and motivations of Russians, and the corruption of the Deep State in the West.



Keep up your silly libelous behavior though. . . it makes you look as dumb as we all know you are. And it gives me a spring board to expose the corruption of the folks you ally yourself with.

 

[MisterBeale]

Do you not value your freedom? Why not travel to Moscow and volunteer to be a slave?

What does what is going on in Ukraine, have to do with us? If Russia imposes its will over Ukraine, tell me how that strips away our liberty?

 

[kyzr]

What does what is going on in Ukraine, have to do with us?
If Russia imposes its will over Ukraine, tell me how that strips away our liberty?

If Putin gets control of Ukraine do you think he will stop taking countries?
Depending upon what the meaning of the word "our" means in the Clintonesque sense.
If "our" means Americans, then we won't lose any of our liberties.
If "our" means countries other than Ukraine, then yes, other countries will lose their liberties.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

and you're a whiney bitch.

Goodbye! You have nothing to offer except exceptional immaturity couple with a strong case of stupid.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Unless the west intervenes militarily Ukraine will be reduced to rubble and occupied.

They do not have nearly enough troops to occupy just Kyiv, must less the rest of Ukraine.

 

[MisterBeale]

If Putin gets control of Ukraine do you think he will stop taking countries?

Of course. I have watched his speeches and read his statements. I have also watched and read the machinations of the CIA and NATO. This is about overthrowing Putin and the Russian regime, because they are not fully on board with the plans of the WEF or the UN sustainable development paradigm. If they had been, they would not have independently developed a jab for COVID, they would have accepted every thing coming out of the WHO, they would have bought one of the three big pharma jabs, and would have attended the COP 26.

This eastward push by western oligarchs, the Keiv color revolution engineered by the western Deep State, and the funding of far right militias hassling civilian populations and creating conflict in eastern Ukraine, is a well worn plan, that has been used over and over again. The REAL target here, is regime change in Russia. It is getting the world on board, hating, not just Putin, but the entire political culture of Russia, so that western and global oligarchs can seize the resources of Russia, and incorporate them into the international technocratic paradigm.

Depending upon what the meaning of the word "our" means in the Clintonesque sense.
If "our" means Americans, then we won't lose any of our liberties.
If "our" means countries other than Ukraine, then yes, other countries will lose their liberties.

"in the Clintonesque sense."

That is political speak. . . for equivocating and lying. It serves no real interest for the average American, and all the propaganda in the world doesn't change that. It only brainwashes the low IQ folks to make lies sound true, and reality twisted into a dream.

 

[toobfreak]

I'll laugh hard at all those who think this tiny battle in some shithole country on the far side of the planet is worth a nuclear war when the first bomb Putin drops on a city is where THEIR family lives! Just remember, it was WORTH IT to fight Putin taking Ukraine!

And just remember, you chose nuclear war over keeping Trump in office who never would have allowed the war to begin. So in effect, you a-holes think Trump was worse than nuclear war!

Just where will you tards be in another year when China does the same thing to Taiwan?

GO GET EM, JOE!

PS: All you assholes who are so worried about climate change and the environment and EV cars, just wait till you see what a nuclear war does to the environment! And you voted for it!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Current wind patterns would shower the EU, not Russia. Putin would take that land as people flee the radiation. Propagation of the radioactivity would make most of Europe uninhabitable for about 25-50 years. Only about 50 miles around the site would remain uninhabitable beyond about 50 years.

Putin aims to restore Mother Russia. His attacks on Nuclear plants could do the work for his army to take control of the region. This man is old school KGB and does not value any human life but his own.

Where is your source for this BS?

Here is my source proving your information is a figment of your imagination:

The wind is most often from the north for 3.7 months, from April 27 to August 18, with a peak percentage of 36% on July 10. The wind is most often from the west for 7.5 months, from August 18 to April 2, with a peak percentage of 42% on January 1.

Kiev Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Ukraine) - Weather Spark

In Kiev, the summers are comfortable and partly cloudy and the winters are long, freezing, snowy, windy, and mostly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 20°F to 78°F and is rarely below 1°F or above 88°F.

weatherspark.com

The earth's rotation cause most winds in the northern hemisphere to low from west to east.

They don't mention east nor southeast anywhere in that commentary.

 

[kyzr]

Of course. I have watched his speeches and read his statements. I have also watched and read the machinations of the CIA and NATO. This is about overthrowing Putin and the Russian regime, because they are not fully on board with the plans of the WEF or the UN sustainable development paradigm. If they had been, they would not have independently developed a jab for COVID, they would have accepted every thing coming out of the WHO, they would have bought one of the three big pharma jabs, and would have attended the COP 26.

This eastward push by western oligarchs, the Keiv color revolution engineered by the western Deep State, and the funding of far right militias hassling civilian populations and creating conflict in eastern Ukraine, is a well worn plan, that has been used over and over again. The REAL target here, is regime change in Russia. It is getting the world on board, hating, not just Putin, but the entire political culture of Russia, so that western and global oligarchs can seize the resources of Russia, and incorporate them into the international technocratic paradigm.

"in the Clintonesque sense."
That is political speak. . . for equivocating and lying. It serves no real interest for the average American, and all the propaganda in the world doesn't change that. It only brainwashes the low IQ folks to make lies sound true, and reality twisted into a dream.

1. Putin would NOT stop after taking Ukraine. He'd take Moldova and any non-NATO country he could to get back as much of the old USSR he and his criminal enterprise could.

2. The Ukraine had 30-years of freedom. Putin is not going to take them back to living under the KGB/GRU again. NFW.

3. Words matter, that's why we have lawyers and courts

 

[MisterBeale]

1. Putin would NOT stop after taking Ukraine. He'd take Moldova and any non-NATO country he could to get back as much of the old USSR he and his criminal enterprise could.

PROVE IT. Based on what exactly? This sounds like your personal speculation.

2. The Ukraine had 30-years of freedom. Putin is not going to take them back to living under the KGB/GRU again. NFW.

Well. . . the west and Ukraine were given ample opportunity not to threaten Russia's security imperatives. Their desires seemed to me, pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why they didn't negotiate when they had the chance. So? If they end up like Cuba, they are, after all, in Russia's sphere of influence. This is something we will just have to accept. It sure as hell is not worth destroying the planet over.

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda

By John PILGER Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened. Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially…

www.strategic-culture.org

". . . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:

+ NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
+ NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
+ Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
+ the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
+ the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)

These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . ."

 

[airplanemechanic]

In two words Tzar Bomba, 500 mega tons TNT yield.

It was a bomb, not a missile. It could only be carried by the largest bomber that Russia had at the time, the TU-95. That thing would never get close to our shores today. They only developed one just to see how big it could get. The damn thing weighed 60,000lbs.

And it was 50 to 80mt, not 500.

Tsar Bomba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[justoffal]

Now yer talkin!

And don't forget that to Russia, an aggression by one is an aggression by all!

There's no doubt at all that Russia attacking any Nato member would make Russia toast overnight.
Now that's being admitted it might allow us all to take a step forward toward peace. Russia doesn't intend an attack on a Nato country and never really did.

All I would be worrying about is a false flag attack being blamed on Russia.

And now that Russia practically has the whole Ukraine, will they consider it's worth keeping it?

It would also make NATO toast overnight...

JO

 

[justoffal]

PROVE IT. Based on what exactly? This sounds like your personal speculation.



Well. . . the west and Ukraine were given ample opportunity not to threaten Russia's security imperatives. Their desires seemed to me, pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why they didn't negotiate when they had the chance. So? If they end up like Cuba, they are, after all, in Russia's sphere of influence. This is something we will just have to accept. It sure as hell is not worth destroying the planet over.

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda

By John PILGER Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened. Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially…

www.strategic-culture.org

". . . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:



These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . ."

NATO HAS BEEN ITICHING FOR THIS FOR SOME TIME.... The truth here is that Putin is in effect engaging NATO forces right now....they simply have not declared themselves a participant. It explains a lot about the battle numbers which btw are much worse for Ukraine tha we are being informed of.

 

[justoffal]

It's nearly time to consider the most important question.

Is Putin intent on rebuilding the Soviet Union or is he intent on holding the line that will guarantee Russia's future security?

or

Is America/Nato interested in expansion into Russia's borders or is it just interested in stopping Russia's expansion?

Can we draw from the current situation and past practice to find the answers?

Because we are here in the west most of the people posting here will reflexively villainize the other hemisphere and ignore the fact that NATO has become as much of a threat to global peace and security as anyone they once hoped to blame for that very thing. Any attempt to open their eyes will simply get you tag named Putin lover, commie traitor or some other Alinskite propaganda nomenclature. It's a dead giveaway that you are on the right track.

JO

 

[Lesh]

IOW? You got nothing but western propaganda and lies. Nothing, no proof at all.

Russians HATE "western propaganda"

 

[Lesh]

we are here in the west

Problem IS...you ain't "in the west". You're in a troll farm in St. Petersburg

 

[justoffal]

Problem IS...you ain't "in the west". You're in a troll farm in St. Petersburg

Nah....been posting on boards Since they started....JUSTOFFL is a moniker I invented...it's very old,,,
Google it...you'll find it all over the place.

hahah

I'm not a Putin fan...I'm just not stupid enough to believe that White hat Black hat bullshit....that's all.

JO

 

[Lesh]

Nah....been posting on boards Since they started....JUSTOFFL is a moniker I invented...it's very old,,,
Google it...you'll find it all over the place.

hahah

I'm not a Putin fan...I'm just not stupid enough to believe that White hat Black hat bullshit....that's all.

JO

So you think being a QAnon freak is better than being a Russian sock Puppet?

Newsflash...we have had sock puppets in various number all the way back to 2015. And everything you post SCREAMS sock puppet