Is Russia Now the World's Leading Military Power?

[Donald H]

Wrong, oh so very wrong.

In 2008 Russia started testing the SSC-8 "SLINGSHOT" missile, which was in violation of the INF treaty.

In 2013 they started testing the SS-25 "SICKLE" and RD-26 Rubzh missiles. Both road mobile IRBMs that were in clear violation of the INF treaty. And the Russians pretty much said they were going to continue to ignore it as China was in no way bound to the restrictions. And the day the US pulled out of that treaty, the Russians announced they were already developing a land based launcher for the SS-N-27 "SIZZLER" missile.

Interestingly enough, since the US pulled out of that treaty in 2018 the most the US has done is test a new GLCM system in 2019. And there have been no further attempts in developing that platform since 2020 as the Army has no interest in fielding it.

Sorry, feel free to look into the timeline of the INF, that proves what you said is a lie.

As 'to the points made; rebuttal of your talking points would be too sophisticated for this forum's audience.

I'll stick to the facts on America's ambitions on creating more Nato countries with the purpose of challenging Russia. Thereby furnishing proof of America's imperialism and its failure to honour agreements to not challenge Russia.

You can roll all your talking points into one argument that addresses that.

And keep it simple enough for our audience to understand.

For more specific talking points, see Robert Kennedy junior's explanations.

 

[Billo_Really]

https://www.globalpoliticsreview.com/publications/2464-9929_v06_i1-2_p057.pdf

Could it be actually true in a strategic sense?

Or is it redundant to speculate considering that any major conflict will soon turn to a nuclear war?

Still, the question should be asked for a war that is restricted to only conventional weapons.

I've placed this topic here in Military in hopes of a serious discussion that doesn't belong in the Badlands. Moderator cooperation would be appreciated.

You gotta be shitting me!? After their performance in Ukraine? Negro please!

 

[Donald H]

LOL invading another Country twice is NOT defensive.

Kennedy juniors facts and truths.

And a sizable number of Americans that have learned from him and accepted it.

 

[Donald H]

You gotta be shitting me!? After their performance in Ukraine? Negro please!

RFK junior might be shitting you?

The murder of his uncle and his father by the state has put a bone in his teeth.

Will he be able to 'touch' the corrupt American system?

 

[Billo_Really]

RFK junior might be shitting you?

The murder of his uncle and his father by the state has put a bone in his teeth.

Will he be able to 'touch' the corrupt American system?

RFJ Jr is a POS!

 

[Donald H]

RFJ Jr is a POS!

This thread has turned out to be many times more successful than I ever planned it to be.

All America's politicians can be accused of the same, but this one blew the whistle on US military aggression and it's been seared into a few million brains at least.

Will any of the other contenders dare to challenge him on his facts?

 

[Billo_Really]

This thread has turned out to be many times more successful than I ever planned it to be.

All America's politicians can be accused of the same, but this one blew the whistle on US military aggression and it's been seared into a few million brains at least.

Will any of the other contenders dare to challenge him on his facts?

I am opposed to US military aggression. I am also opposed to RFK Jr.

 

[Mushroom]

LOL invading another Country twice is NOT defensive.

Nor is invading multiple countries. They have invaded Ukraine twice. But also Georgia (three times) and Moldovia. Each and every time they did so biting off more and more of the nations they invaded.

 

[Mushroom]

All America's politicians can be accused of the same

Really?

Name when in the last 3 decades we went to war with another nation with the intent of absorbing part of their country. Hell, name the time that happened in the last 5 decades. Or even the past century.

 

[Mushroom]

I'll stick to the facts on America's ambitions on creating more Nato countries with the purpose of challenging Russia.

Nations are flocking to NATO purely because of the past history of the Soviet Union and now Russia in invading them and trying to force them to do whatever Russia wants them to do.

Case in point, Finland deciding to throw off over 7 decades of non-alignment between NATO and Warsaw Pact - Russia and deciding to make a stand and joining NATO. If Russia had not without provocation invaded and annexed so many of their neighbors they never would have done that.

The very fact that Finland is no longer "Finlandized" shows that your claim is a lie.

Oh, and what about the Commonwealth of Independent States? You know, the organization that Russia created to replace the Warsaw Pact? How has that turned out? Of the twelve nations that signed that agreement between 1991 and 1993, Russia has invaded three of them. Something I find particularly ironic, as the very idea of the CIS was to serve as an alternative to NATO. Yet while none of those nations has ever been invaded by NATO, Russia itself has invaded a quarter of them. Is no wonder that membership in the CIS has shrunk, and that NATO has grown.

Nations might actually stop joining NATO if Russia stops invading their neighbors.

 

[Donald H]

Really?

Name when in the last 3 decades we went to war with another nation with the intent of absorbing part of their country.

That's not a relevant question and none of the victim countries (30?) ever had any ambitions of absorbing America. All the victims aspired to being permitted to make their own free choices in spite of America.

Hell, name the time that happened in the last 5 decades. Or even the past century.

You can't excuse aggression by inventing a question that is meant to excuse aggression.

Still, all discussion will begin with the facts on America's ambitions to use Nato to encroach on Russia's borders.

After America promising in return for Russia's concessions to America on East Germany, and then lie and reneg on the deal.

We're going to keep it simple, for the sake of simple people.

 

[Donald H]

Nations are flocking to NATO purely because of the past history of the Soviet Union and now Russia in invading them and trying to force them to do whatever Russia wants them to do.

We're all aware of America's and Nato's talking points by now.

But we're not going to allow your side to dodge the very reason why America fomented a proxy war in the Ukraine.

(see RFK junior's expose')

Rebut it if you care to try.

 

[Mushroom]

That's not a relevant question and none of the victim countries (30?) ever had any ambitions of absorbing America. All the victims aspired to being permitted to make their own free choices in spite of America.

How is it not? The Russians, the Soviets, and the Russians again have a long history of invading and annexing other nations.

It is only not relevant because you do not like the obvious answer. Especially in the insane claim your make, as how many of the nations that Russia invaded ever had the intent of absorbing Russia?

You can't excuse aggression by inventing a question that is meant to excuse aggression.

Uh-huh, yet another fail.

Still, all discussion will begin with the facts on America's ambitions to use Nato to encroach on Russia's borders.

Really? And what about the discussion of continued aggression by Russia against their neighbors? That is the very thing that is causing NATO to grow in the first place.

Hell, Ukraine had stated over and over for over 3 decades they had absolutely no interest in ever joining NATO. That is until Russia attacked them twice, each time biting off more and more of their country.

It would not surprise me if when the current conflict ends, Ukraine joins NATO. And that is entirely because of the actions of Russia.

After America promising in return for Russia's concessions to America on East Germany, and then lie and reneg on the deal.

And where exactly are US troops based in what used to be East Germany? Hell, where exactly are US troops stationed at all in Germany anymore?

In case you are not aware, we have a whopping 35,000 forces in Germany today. That is a small fraction of the over 200,000 that were stationed there before the nation reunified.

Wow, are you ever tired of being wrong? It might help if you actually know history and can actually state something like facts instead of simply blathering on and on about your own opinions with absolutely no facts or figures to back up your silly claims.

So tell us, the concession the US made was to station no US forces in what used to be East Germany. Where exactly has that been violated? Our forces are about 1/5 what they were before reunification, exactly how many of those are stationed in former East Germany, and where?

Come on now, you are the one that is making this claim. It is up to you to prove that your claims are real.

 

[Mushroom]

But we're not going to allow your side to dodge the very reason why America fomented a proxy war in the Ukraine.

Really? And please tell us exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

It is not a "US proxy war" if the other nation is the aggressor. You really ignore any kind of facts in the pursuit of your pro-Russian propaganda, don't you?

Tell me exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

 

[Deadstick]

The Russians had been using them since the very start of the conflict. The very initial invasion in February 2002 was kicked off with salvos of Russian cluster munitions against Ukrainian military sites and runways.

So how in the hell the President had anything to do with that, I have absolutely no idea. Just as the Russians used them in 2015 and 2016 when President Obama was still in office.

The fascists in Kiev are using them against civilians like some of us said they would.

 

[Deadstick]

Really? And please tell us exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

It is not a "US proxy war" if the other nation is the aggressor. You really ignore any kind of facts in the pursuit of your pro-Russian propaganda, don't you?

Tell me exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

Your problem is like other who support the Regime in Kiev you have ignored everything that happened since the coup in 2014, only when Russia took action did you get your knickers in a twist, you didn't say a damn thing when civilians in Donetsk were shelled every day by Ukrianian Nazis.

 

[Donald H]

Really? And please tell us exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

The Ukraine's Nazi element was fully involved in the murder of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine's Donbass in 2014.

It is not a "US proxy war" if the other nation is the aggressor. You really ignore any kind of facts in the pursuit of your pro-Russian propaganda, don't you?

Tell me exactly when Ukraine invaded Russia.

(see RFK junior's facts on the aggressor's guilt.)

Or dig deeper for more facts that preceded his expose'.

You're not going to be allowed to gloss any of that over!

 

[Donald H]

Your problem is like other who support the Regime in Kiev you have ignored everything that happened since the coup in 2014, only when Russia took action did you get your knickers in a twist, you didn't say a damn thing when civilians in Donetsk were shelled every day by Ukrianian Nazis.

Your explanation has plenty of backing on this board, even though most are jamming their fingers in their ears!

Mushroom realizes that he's butting his head against a brick wall that's made of inconvenient facts.

 

[Deadstick]

Nor is invading multiple countries. They have invaded Ukraine twice. But also Georgia (three times) and Moldovia. Each and every time they did so biting off more and more of the nations they invaded.

You are talking nonsense, if Russia had invaded Ukraine once they wouldn't need to do it a second time, and the Georgia war was started by that tie munching moron Saackashvili encouraged once again by the US, he got a spanking and Rusia doesn't occupy Georgia, as for Moldova i don't know what you are on about, sorry no cigar.

 

[Deadstick]

Your explanation has plenty of backing on this board, even though most are jamming their fingers in their ears!

Mushroom realizes that he's butting his head against a brick wall that's made of inconvenient facts.

Well i am encouraged that there are some Americans who understand whats gone on, what worries me is the Kiev supporters don't know, or worse they do know and go along with the fascism.