Is the Vatican full of Nazis?

[Orange_Juice]

You know what's not funny? If I remember correctly the Vatican did turn it's back while the 6 million European Jews were systematically murdered.

And you are bringing that up now why? Just blind Catholic bashing or or you actually saying this Church follows the same policies that the the one did during WW2?

 

[Ravi]

And you are bringing that up now why? Just blind Catholic bashing or or you actually saying this Church follows the same policies that the the one did during WW2?

They actually do pretty much. I can't vouch for the last ten years or so...but when I was attached to the Catholic church they weren't fond of Jews. And the current pope is pretty far out there in judgment land.

 

[WillowTree]

And you are bringing that up now why? Just blind Catholic bashing or or you actually saying this Church follows the same policies that the the one did during WW2?

Is there a timeline on what is permissable to dredge up? doyathink?

 

[Red Dawn]

Yes you Are such a fine, honest, upstanding person arn't you Jilly


As long as you agree with her on everything, Jillybaby is a good friend

God, you sound like a limp wristed sissy boy.

 

[pfife]

I know you mean well. I have absolutely no doubt about that. But if you look at her posts of the past few days they have gotten progressively outrageous as she's shown to be wrong. I think reasonable people can disagree on this issue, but no one can really disagre that a country has the right to defend itself after 3,000 missiles have been dropped on it.

they have the right to defend themselves against the people who attacked them - not the hundreds, probably thousands who will die who did not attack them.

 

[garyd]

So how do you propose they go about doing that against an Army that sees nothing wrong with sending 12-15 year olds armed with slings (a lethal weapon for over 8000 years) to attack armed soldiers in the hope that they get killed and give the people that sent them out to die some good publicity?

 

[Orange_Juice]

Is there a timeline on what is permissable to dredge up? doyathink?

Ya, its about as stupid as blaming the United States of today of slavery

 

[pfife]

So how do you propose they go about doing that against an Army that sees nothing wrong with sending 12-15 year olds armed with slings (a lethal weapon for over 8000 years) to attack armed soldiers in the hope that they get killed and give the people that sent them out to die some good publicity?

Their inability to do so doesn't give them the right to attack those who did not attack them.

 

[garyd]

They aren't. They are attacking those who are attacking them others who have the misfortune to be in the same general vacinity of the attackers, well you pays your money and you takes your chances sorry by your dice just rolled craps. Enjoy your seventy two Virginians.

What you are attemting to do is establish a set of rules of engagement such that Israel could never respond to any provication no matter how extreme. Sorry neither I nor anyopne else save OJ and BAC are buying that crap.

 

[Bobby_Ray]

Gaza is a big fat concentration camp, and it isn't a surprise that Israel would know exactly how to make Gaza a concentration camp-seeing that some of the Jews in central Israel were in concentration camps in world war 2. The Palestinian people in Gaza don't have access to basic medical care or supplies, basic food and water, housing in a lot of cases because Israel destroyed their houses, then made up excuses for doing so by saying that these houses were inhabited by Hamas or Hamas supporters. And, the majority of the Palestinian people are Hamas supporters, because they held elections and voted Hamas into office. So, maybe Israel intends to kill as many Palestinian civilians as they can before some other nation/s eventually stop them. It is understandable that Israel would go after Hamas members-but, for Israel to keep blatantly killing little children (over 100 children have been killed in this latest conflict) and women who have nothing to do with Hamas-except maybe voting for Hamas, is inexcuseable. What if American citizens were targetted and killed by a stronger nation just because some of us voted for G.W. Bush? I don't think you would find this acceptable-so, why is Israel's killing and oppressing of unarmed Palestinian civilians acceptable. Israel is not completely right in all of this, and anyone with common sense can see that.

 

[WillowTree]

they have the right to defend themselves against the people who attacked them - not the hundreds, probably thousands who will die who did not attack them.

it don't work that way budrow!

 

[mightypeon]

I am not that sold on Israel beeing the "responder to Hamas missles".
Technically and legally, a blockade is an act of war as defined by international law, and the blockade has been in place for about as long as the missles were incoming, if my memory serves me correct.

Besides, the current incarnation of Hamas seems to:
A) Have a chain of command
B) Have person responsible for each operation
C) Wears identifiers

I am quite sure that they do not fullfill the Geneve conventions themselfs (which is difficult for any guerilla, imagine that you are a part of the American resistance against an occupation by lets say China and Russia. How will you treat captured soldiers? Where will you place them?)
They are quite close to beeing a legally legitimate militia.

You know, successfull "terrorist" groups tend to form into militia like things if they are successfull, if their success continues they will form things resembling a conventional army. Conventional armies win wars, terrorists dont.

 

[WillowTree]

Ya, its about as stupid as blaming the United States of today of slavery

yeah well, go figure!

 

[Ravi]

I am not that sold on Israel beeing the "responder to Hamas missles".
Technically and legally, a blockade is an act of war as defined by international law, and the blockade has been in place for about as long as the missles were incoming, if my memory serves me correct.

Besides, the current incarnation of Hamas seems to:
A) Have a chain of command
B) Have person responsible for each operation
C) Wears identifiers

I am quite sure that they do not fullfill the Geneve conventions themselfs (which is difficult for any guerilla, imagine that you are a part of the American resistance against an occupation by lets say China and Russia. How will you treat captured soldiers? Where will you place them?)
They are quite close to beeing a legally legitimate militia.

You know, successfull "terrorist" groups tend to form into militia like things if they are successfull, if their success continues they will form things resembling a conventional army. Conventional armies win wars, terrorists dont.

Is a border barrier a blockade? If so, is the US border fencing with Mexico an act of war?

Also, from what I understand Hamas is not wearing identifiers.

 

[pfife]

Is a border barrier a blockade? If so, is the US border fencing with Mexico an act of war?

I don't think border barriers are blockades.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Gaza is a big fat concentration camp, and it isn't a surprise that Israel would know exactly how to make Gaza a concentration camp-seeing that some of the Jews in central Israel were in concentration camps in world war 2. The Palestinian people in Gaza don't have access to basic medical care or supplies, basic food and water, housing in a lot of cases because Israel destroyed their houses, then made up excuses for doing so by saying that these houses were inhabited by Hamas or Hamas supporters. And, the majority of the Palestinian people are Hamas supporters, because they held elections and voted Hamas into office. So, maybe Israel intends to kill as many Palestinian civilians as they can before some other nation/s eventually stop them. It is understandable that Israel would go after Hamas members-but, for Israel to keep blatantly killing little children (over 100 children have been killed in this latest conflict) and women who have nothing to do with Hamas-except maybe voting for Hamas, is inexcuseable. What if American citizens were targetted and killed by a stronger nation just because some of us voted for G.W. Bush? I don't think you would find this acceptable-so, why is Israel's killing and oppressing of unarmed Palestinian civilians acceptable. Israel is not completely right in all of this, and anyone with common sense can see that.

You know.....you sound an awful lot like another poster on here who is affectionately known as Sunnidiot.

Hamas has built schools, hospitals and housing for the people of Palestine. Only trouble is, they also built in weapons cache areas, as well as generally wire the whole fucking thing for sound.......which means a BIG boom.

They publicly tell the people how great they are doing, meanwhile, at night, they are looting, terrorizing and generally forcing the people into submission.

Ever do much research on WWII? At first, the Nazis showed the "model concentration camps", and did a whole big production. They fed 'em, cleaned them up, and made it look nice.

Meanwhile Buchenwald and Auschwitcz were just down the road, where people were being burned in ovens, killed with gas, and buried in mass graves.

Yep......the Red Cross/Red Crescent has been lied to before, which is what is happening here.

Besides......think about this......they can't see the whole picture, because those that need aid are blocking the view. Not a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but........ever been into a casualty zone? EVERYONE is shouting about what is wrong, and who they think is to blame. Sometimes they're right (as in Katrina when they blamed Bush and FEMA), sometimes not, as in the current situation in Gaza. The Hamas leadership is using it as a stage to get sympathy from the world, so that they can go back to smuggling weapons and taking pot shots at Israel with their homemade rockets. Should have seen how they build 'em by the way.....was on the BBC.

Nope.....personal opinion? Fuck 'em.

Send up Predators to lock on to where the missiles are coming from. Send up Raptors and Reapers alongside 'em to take them out with guns and missiles. I figure a pod or two of Hellfire missiles would shut them down.

After all of Hamas has surrendered or been killed?

Open up the border and help the wounded.

 

[mightypeon]

It is hardly a mere border barrier if one prevents the passage of just about anything into the area in question.
Does the US prohibit food the transfer of food and medical supplies and fuel into mexiko?
If it would, it would indeed be an act of war. However it obviously does not.

Another interpretation is that Gaza is not a souvereign state and therefore cannot be blockaded. This would put Gaza as an area occupied by Israel. According to the Geneve conventions, an occupying power has to care for the people it is occupying, also the Geneve convention explicitly prohibits collective punishment. If one claims to the theory that Hamas is not a state, Israels blockade is a war crime. If one adhers to the theory that Hamas is a state or something statelike, Israels blockade is an act of war.
Also, a bit of chronology may be in order: According to Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper the renewed conflict began of Nov. 4 when Israeli troops raided parts of Gaza in an effort to destroy tunnels, killing 6 Hamas members in the process.
(An act of war but not a war crime if you assume that Hamas is not a sovereign entitiy)

Link: UN: Israel's border closures leave us with no food for Gaza - Haaretz - Israel News

To this the Gaza insurgents retailiated with rockets, which made Israel close off the barrier for humanitarian goods too.
Personally, I think that closing of an area for humanitarian goods coming from a 3th party is what is the line between a strict border control (to which Israel is entitled too) and a blockade (to which it is also entitled too, however it is an act of war, and therefor justifies a war response).

to make an example: The Berlin Wall was not an act of war.

The Berlin blockade was an act of war, however the US decided that it would not respond with force of arms. The Soviet Union also decided that it would not enforce its blockade with force of arms (they had enough anti air around Berlin), which was what saved the world from WWIII.


Considering lying to the red cross:
Do you really assume that Hamas, which controll like no territory, whose leaders are in hiding and whose structure is very decentralized, has the same ability of lying and getting away with at that Nazi Germany had at the peak of its power?

How did the horribly hurt children end up in the hospitals? Do you stipulate that hamas shot them? The grasp of Hamas if fairly volatile, they can hardly afford to alienate the population by doing such things.

Apart from that, please put yourself in the imaginary situation of an American Guerillia fighter fighting to free Manhattan from an evil UN occupation. Assume that you cannot get off Manhattan easily. Precisly where do you intend to place any fighters? There will be next to no place where there would not be civilians near by, and, if the situation is a carbon copy of Gaza, there would be no opportunity of evacuating any civilians prior to the outbreak of hostilities.

From what I got, some alleged Hamas units are wearing identifiers, some are not. However, Israel claims that everyone looking like firing at them is Hamas, when they in fact may have been:
A) Another organisation apart from hamas
B) Someone caught up in the crossfire/confusion
C) Actually was Hamas and tried to cover in the population

It is also likely that Hamas has non-Hamas Subdivisions (which would not have identifiers) which, while claiming that they are someone else, are actually embedded in the Hamas chain of command.

There is a lot of fog of war in urban warfare, and even more strategic fog of war if elections are involved. Apart from information that shows the enemy in a positive light, I take everything with a huge bit of salt.

Cheers,

Mightypeon

 

[DiveCon]

they also have a border with Egypt, and they have ports
so to claim they cant get food in is bullshit

 

[AmericaFirst]

Bishop of Jerusalem Riah Hanna Abu El-Assal


Part one
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Riah Hanna Abu El-Assal/smith-bishop.p1.06-01-2009.mp3

Part two
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Riah Hanna Abu El-Assal/smith-bishop.pt2.06-01-2009.mp3

 

[mightypeon]

Israel is also blockading them with their considerable Naval and aerial assets.
It is a good question why the Egyptians are participating in the blockade though, since Egypt was so far the most pro Israel arab state (in the current crisis), one may wonder what they intend to gain from it.