Is there a libertarian approach to poverty that *doesn't* come down to "just stop being poor"?

[ChrisL]

Let me tell you, if you don't help the poor, things will get worse. MUCH worse. The poor people don't care what you think about them. They care about surviving. If you leave them with nothing, they will do what they feel they need to in order to survive. You want to see REAL ghettos and slums?

 

[ChrisL]

See, this is what the OP was about. "If you didn't want to be poor then you should have had the drive and motivation to be born to a rich family. If you want to stop being poor then get a job. You should be able to squeeze it in between the other two you're already working, you lazy bastard you."​

Yep. In this country being poor is a choice. Go into any "poor" persons house, trailer, or apartment and you'll see an enormous TV in every room and not one book......

Wanna stop being poor? Take responsibility for everything that happens in your life. Stop blaming others for your problems. There is no government solution for anyone's problems.

That is ridiculously simple. That is NOT why people are poor. We are a country of around 320 MILLION people. There are just not that many jobs to go around.

 

[Zander]

See, this is what the OP was about. "If you didn't want to be poor then you should have had the drive and motivation to be born to a rich family. If you want to stop being poor then get a job. You should be able to squeeze it in between the other two you're already working, you lazy bastard you."​

Yep. In this country being poor is a choice. Go into any "poor" persons house, trailer, or apartment and you'll see an enormous TV in every room and not one book......

Wanna stop being poor? Take responsibility for everything that happens in your life. Stop blaming others for your problems. There is no government solution for anyone's problems.

That is ridiculously simple. That is NOT why people are poor. We are a country of around 320 MILLION people. There are just not that many jobs to go around.

The truth is simple. Lies and excuses are always complicated. If you can't find a job - create your own job. Start a business. People come here from other countries with nothing and they immediately start their own businesses.
They understand CAPITALISM. They know it's the greatest engine of prosperity in the history of mankind.

There is no excuse for able bodied non retarded people being poor or needing welfare for more than a few months. It's a safety net- not a fucking sofa.

 

[koshergrl]

See, this is what the OP was about. "If you didn't want to be poor then you should have had the drive and motivation to be born to a rich family. If you want to stop being poor then get a job. You should be able to squeeze it in between the other two you're already working, you lazy bastard you."​

Yep. In this country being poor is a choice. Go into any "poor" persons house, trailer, or apartment and you'll see an enormous TV in every room and not one book......

Wanna stop being poor? Take responsibility for everything that happens in your life. Stop blaming others for your problems. There is no government solution for anyone's problems.

Huh. I remember living with a relative in her trailer not too long ago. They couldn't afford a tv and even the utility bill was sketchy so they got free, or at least cheap, books wherever they could. Clearly you live in a generally affluent area if your poor folks can afford all that.

So who worked in that family, and why were you mooching off them?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Huh. I remember living with a relative in her trailer not too long ago. They couldn't afford a tv and even the utility bill was sketchy so they got free, or at least cheap, books wherever they could. Clearly you live in a generally affluent area if your poor folks can afford all that.

So who worked in that family, and why were you mooching off them?

My relative. I was looking for work while I waited to ship out to basic training.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

The truth is simple. Lies and excuses are always complicated. If you can't find a job - create your own job. Start a business. People come here from other countries with nothing and they immediately start their own businesses.
They understand CAPITALISM. They know it's the greatest engine of prosperity in the history of mankind.

There is no excuse for able bodied non retarded people being poor or needing welfare for more than a few months. It's a safety net- not a fucking sofa.

Good luck buying all the relevant licenses and tools, getting a phone line, arranging transportation, finding customers, and networking with zero skills or resources.

 

[sealybobo]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

Libertarians are stupid. People work under the table for $10 hr. No one will work for $5.

But poor people need to stop having children until they are no longer poor. Simple.

 

[sealybobo]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Go to Detroit and implement your ideas.

If they are good ideas why do you make up only 1% of the electorate? We've all had a good look at libertarianism and it looks stupid to us.

 

[koshergrl]

Huh. I remember living with a relative in her trailer not too long ago. They couldn't afford a tv and even the utility bill was sketchy so they got free, or at least cheap, books wherever they could. Clearly you live in a generally affluent area if your poor folks can afford all that.

So who worked in that family, and why were you mooching off them?

My relative. I was looking for work while I waited to ship out to basic training.

well ppl who work their asses off frequently have less than lazy bums who don't. That's what happens when as a society you force working people to provide deadbeats a standard of living that they can't afford themselves.

 

[dblack]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Go to Detroit and implement your ideas.

If they are good ideas why do you make up only 1% of the electorate? We've all had a good look at libertarianism and it looks stupid to us.

If you're referring to political solutions, I can "implement" my ideas for solving Detroit's poverty problems without going there.

 

[Rshermr]

See, this is what the OP was about. "If you didn't want to be poor then you should have had the drive and motivation to be born to a rich family. If you want to stop being poor then get a job. You should be able to squeeze it in between the other two you're already working, you lazy bastard you."​

Yep. In this country being poor is a choice. Go into any "poor" persons house, trailer, or apartment and you'll see an enormous TV in every room and not one book......

Wanna stop being poor? Take responsibility for everything that happens in your life. Stop blaming others for your problems. There is no government solution for anyone's problems.

That is ridiculously simple. That is NOT why people are poor. We are a country of around 320 MILLION people. There are just not that many jobs to go around.

The truth is simple. Lies and excuses are always complicated. If you can't find a job - create your own job. Start a business. People come here from other countries with nothing and they immediately start their own businesses.
They understand CAPITALISM. They know it's the greatest engine of prosperity in the history of mankind.

There is no excuse for able bodied non retarded people being poor or needing welfare for more than a few months. It's a safety net- not a fucking sofa.

So, what percentage of the poor just want free stuff? Any idea. Provide backup of your answer.
Capitalism does not exist, me boy, except where it is mixed with socialism. Pure capitalism is synonymous with Libertarianism. Like Communism, it failed. The difference is that it at least existed for a few decades. Pure capitalism NEVER made it off the mat.

 

[sealybobo]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Go to Detroit and implement your ideas.

If they are good ideas why do you make up only 1% of the electorate? We've all had a good look at libertarianism and it looks stupid to us.

If you're referring to political solutions, I can "implement" my ideas for solving Detroit's poverty problems without going there.

Do it. Or show me how Ron Paul's district in Texas is an oasis of bliss.

 

[ChrisL]

See, this is what the OP was about. "If you didn't want to be poor then you should have had the drive and motivation to be born to a rich family. If you want to stop being poor then get a job. You should be able to squeeze it in between the other two you're already working, you lazy bastard you."​

Yep. In this country being poor is a choice. Go into any "poor" persons house, trailer, or apartment and you'll see an enormous TV in every room and not one book......

Wanna stop being poor? Take responsibility for everything that happens in your life. Stop blaming others for your problems. There is no government solution for anyone's problems.

That is ridiculously simple. That is NOT why people are poor. We are a country of around 320 MILLION people. There are just not that many jobs to go around.

The truth is simple. Lies and excuses are always complicated. If you can't find a job - create your own job. Start a business. People come here from other countries with nothing and they immediately start their own businesses.
They understand CAPITALISM. They know it's the greatest engine of prosperity in the history of mankind.

There is no excuse for able bodied non retarded people being poor or needing welfare for more than a few months. It's a safety net- not a fucking sofa.

A lot of people do not have the luxury of just "starting a business." Be realistic!!! What bank is going to give this person a loan??

 

[ChrisL]

Opening a business is very complicated! It takes a lot of money too! You don't just immediately start seeing a profit. All of your money for the first few years is usually invested BACK into your business. Therefore, how do you expect a person who is poor and collecting social services to begin with such a task?

Also, opening a business is a risky undertaking. It is kind of like gambling actually. There is absolutely NO guarantees that you will be successful. Whatever business you open, there are already probably at least thousands of others in existence. We need REAL solutions to these real problems.

My grandfather used to tell me about how he supported a family of 5 (himself, his wife and 3 kids), on HIS income alone, and he worked at a factory. He owned his own home, a car, a camper, and was able to food on the table all on his income. That is literally impossible today.

 

[dblack]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Go to Detroit and implement your ideas.

If they are good ideas why do you make up only 1% of the electorate? We've all had a good look at libertarianism and it looks stupid to us.

If you're referring to political solutions, I can "implement" my ideas for solving Detroit's poverty problems without going there.

Do it. Or show me how Ron Paul's district in Texas is an oasis of bliss.

Done.

See, you're not listening. Libertarians don't offer solutions to poverty. We participate in plenty, personally, but in terms of our political ideology we don't promote government solutions to poverty. It's not the purpose of government and it's an abuse of sovereignty to use it as such.

 

[dblack]

Opening a business is very complicated! It takes a lot of money too! You don't just immediately start seeing a profit. All of your money for the first few years is usually invested BACK into your business. Therefore, how do you expect a person who is poor and collecting social services to begin with such a task?

It's made much more complicated and expensive than it needs to be by burdensome state regulation.

 

[Rshermr]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Me poor ignorant boy, first of all THERE IS NO LIBERTAEIAN GOVERNMENT, AND NO LIBERTARIAN ECONOMY. SO, ME BOY, THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO SOLUTION TO ANYTHING. The libertarians simply try to set things up so that they get everything, which ends their power. Always.

 

[sealybobo]

Opening a business is very complicated! It takes a lot of money too! You don't just immediately start seeing a profit. All of your money for the first few years is usually invested BACK into your business. Therefore, how do you expect a person who is poor and collecting social services to begin with such a task?

It's made much more complicated and expensive than it needs to be by burdensome state regulation.

I run a libertarian weed business. Zero regulations. Supply and demand. Zero taxes. Made in America.

 

[dblack]

NO!

It's true! Certainly not via government. There is no "libertarian" solution to poverty because we don't believe it's a problem government should be used to solve. There are, however, any number of ways to alleviate p overty that libertarians support. Just not those that employ the coercive power of legislation.

Me poor ignorant boy, first of all THERE IS NO LIBERTAEIAN GOVERNMENT, AND NO LIBERTARIAN ECONOMY. SO, ME BOY, THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO SOLUTION TO ANYTHING. The libertarians simply try to set things up so that they get everything, which ends their power. Always.

I think your capslock has you confused. Can you rephrase that as a coherent comment?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

My relative. I was looking for work while I waited to ship out to basic training.

well ppl who work their asses off frequently have less than lazy bums who don't. That's what happens when as a society you force working people to provide deadbeats a standard of living that they can't afford themselves.

I'm not really even sure what you're saying here. Are you condemning her for working a full time job or me for needing a place to stay and find work before enlisting?