Is there such a thing as a conservative . ..

[Wry Catcher]

who does NOT believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim and that he was NOT born in Kenya?

I have participated in three conservative message boards, and it seems like that is a common theme in all of them. I'm afraid to say over there that I believe he isn't a Muslim and that he is an American.

I have yet to hear or see any authoritative proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim. The "proof" that is offered is:

1. His biological father was a Muslim.
2. His stepfather was a Muslim.
3. He attended a madrassa in Indonesia (which doesn't really surprise me, because Indonesia is the home of the world's largest Muslim population)
4. He made a reference to "my Muslim faith", but if you read the context of the interview, he was not saying he was a Muslim. He was responding to someone who was talking about his alleged "Muslim faith".

Now, is he a Muslim sympathizer? Perhaps. But that's not the same as being a Muslim.

As for the birth certificate? If you believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, you have to believe that Stanley Ann Dunham got on a plane in 1961 and flew all the way to Kenya just to give birth to a child. It's not necessarily the wisest thing for a eight- to nine-months pregnant woman to get on an airplane and make an international flight (which would have been MUCH longer in 1961). That said, I DO believe that if Barack Obama had released his long-form birth certificate waayyy back when this whole question of his birth arose, he could have avoided a lot of controversy.

I have serious problems with Obama's policies. I have problems with the way the whole health care law was handled. And I get the impression that he wants to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with those who would love nothing more than to bomb us into oblivion.

But spending energy on the above issues takes away energy we could be using to deal with the very real problems we have as a country.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

The root word of conservative is conserve; today the conservatives in America consider those who want to conserve eco-terrorists (some are, but most are responsible Americans who treasure clean air, clean water and our Planet). The modern GOP looks back to a time before FDR and Woodrow Wilson in the era known as the Gilded Age, when the power elite ruled with an iron fist and labor struggled six days a week without hope for a better future. A time when profit and personal power were their only concern, when and our rivers served to carry away heavy metals and factories filled the air with caustic smoke.

Today, those who call themselves conservatives are mostly fools, unable or unwilling to critically think and seriously consider the consequences of the modern day Reactionary ideology. They lap up propaganda and parrot the very words they hear and read, pushing the agenda of demagogues mostly harmful to them but of great benefit to the power elite.

 

[Redfish]

who does NOT believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim and that he was NOT born in Kenya?

I have participated in three conservative message boards, and it seems like that is a common theme in all of them. I'm afraid to say over there that I believe he isn't a Muslim and that he is an American.

I have yet to hear or see any authoritative proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim. The "proof" that is offered is:

1. His biological father was a Muslim.
2. His stepfather was a Muslim.
3. He attended a madrassa in Indonesia (which doesn't really surprise me, because Indonesia is the home of the world's largest Muslim population)
4. He made a reference to "my Muslim faith", but if you read the context of the interview, he was not saying he was a Muslim. He was responding to someone who was talking about his alleged "Muslim faith".

Now, is he a Muslim sympathizer? Perhaps. But that's not the same as being a Muslim.

As for the birth certificate? If you believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, you have to believe that Stanley Ann Dunham got on a plane in 1961 and flew all the way to Kenya just to give birth to a child. It's not necessarily the wisest thing for a eight- to nine-months pregnant woman to get on an airplane and make an international flight (which would have been MUCH longer in 1961). That said, I DO believe that if Barack Obama had released his long-form birth certificate waayyy back when this whole question of his birth arose, he could have avoided a lot of controversy.

I have serious problems with Obama's policies. I have problems with the way the whole health care law was handled. And I get the impression that he wants to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with those who would love nothing more than to bomb us into oblivion.

But spending energy on the above issues takes away energy we could be using to deal with the very real problems we have as a country.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

The root word of conservative is conserve; today the conservatives in America consider those who want to conserve eco-terrorists (some are, but most are responsible Americans who treasure clean air, clean water and our Planet). The modern GOP looks back to a time before FDR and Woodrow Wilson in the era known as the Gilded Age, when the power elite ruled with an iron fist and labor struggled six days a week without hope for a better future. A time when profit and personal power were their only concern, when and our rivers served to carry away heavy metals and factories filled the air with caustic smoke.

Today, those who call themselves conservatives are mostly fools, unable or unwilling to critically think and seriously consider the consequences of the modern day Reactionary ideology. They lap up propaganda and parrot the very words they hear and read, pushing the agenda of demagogues mostly harmful to them but of great benefit to the power elite.

more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth.

true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responisbility. Freedom and responsibiliy include both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberals want the govt to somehow guarnatee equal results to everyone regardless of abilities or hard work.

 

[Wry Catcher]

who does NOT believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim and that he was NOT born in Kenya?

I have participated in three conservative message boards, and it seems like that is a common theme in all of them. I'm afraid to say over there that I believe he isn't a Muslim and that he is an American.

I have yet to hear or see any authoritative proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim. The "proof" that is offered is:

1. His biological father was a Muslim.
2. His stepfather was a Muslim.
3. He attended a madrassa in Indonesia (which doesn't really surprise me, because Indonesia is the home of the world's largest Muslim population)
4. He made a reference to "my Muslim faith", but if you read the context of the interview, he was not saying he was a Muslim. He was responding to someone who was talking about his alleged "Muslim faith".

Now, is he a Muslim sympathizer? Perhaps. But that's not the same as being a Muslim.

As for the birth certificate? If you believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, you have to believe that Stanley Ann Dunham got on a plane in 1961 and flew all the way to Kenya just to give birth to a child. It's not necessarily the wisest thing for a eight- to nine-months pregnant woman to get on an airplane and make an international flight (which would have been MUCH longer in 1961). That said, I DO believe that if Barack Obama had released his long-form birth certificate waayyy back when this whole question of his birth arose, he could have avoided a lot of controversy.

I have serious problems with Obama's policies. I have problems with the way the whole health care law was handled. And I get the impression that he wants to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with those who would love nothing more than to bomb us into oblivion.

But spending energy on the above issues takes away energy we could be using to deal with the very real problems we have as a country.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

The root word of conservative is conserve; today the conservatives in America consider those who want to conserve eco-terrorists (some are, but most are responsible Americans who treasure clean air, clean water and our Planet). The modern GOP looks back to a time before FDR and Woodrow Wilson in the era known as the Gilded Age, when the power elite ruled with an iron fist and labor struggled six days a week without hope for a better future. A time when profit and personal power were their only concern, when and our rivers served to carry away heavy metals and factories filled the air with caustic smoke.

Today, those who call themselves conservatives are mostly fools, unable or unwilling to critically think and seriously consider the consequences of the modern day Reactionary ideology. They lap up propaganda and parrot the very words they hear and read, pushing the agenda of demagogues mostly harmful to them but of great benefit to the power elite.

more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth.

true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility. Freedom and responsibility include both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberals want the govt to somehow guarantee equal results to everyone regardless of abilities or hard work.

Written with the surety of a true believer, a parrot without consideration of the consequences of the ideology which seeks to go back to a time when misery, child labor, poor health care and poverty were the norm. You don't even realize the only talking points are those you parrot, "true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility". Anarchy ain't the utopia Randians think it will be.

You are free and have greater liberty than any generation to come before. The side you support wants to deprive some of our citizens of liberty and happiness but guise their bigotry with words and phrases only a fool believes. DOMA, aptly named would the The Act to Deny some Citizens their "unalienable Rights" to be happy and deprive them of the economic and personal benefits of married life.

Your side wants to deprive labor of the right to bargain collectively for wages and benefits; deprive the working poor of access to health care, deregulate the financial services industry, reduce the inspections of our food. and gut the EPA.

That sort of "small government" thinking is exactly what the Plutocrats want you to believe. You and others like you are being duped not by Big Brother, but by the Koch Brothers and other members of the power elite, including those in The Congress and State Legislatures who accept bribes in trade for their support.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

who does NOT believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim and that he was NOT born in Kenya?

I have participated in three conservative message boards, and it seems like that is a common theme in all of them. I'm afraid to say over there that I believe he isn't a Muslim and that he is an American.

I have yet to hear or see any authoritative proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim. The "proof" that is offered is:

1. His biological father was a Muslim.
2. His stepfather was a Muslim.
3. He attended a madrassa in Indonesia (which doesn't really surprise me, because Indonesia is the home of the world's largest Muslim population)
4. He made a reference to "my Muslim faith", but if you read the context of the interview, he was not saying he was a Muslim. He was responding to someone who was talking about his alleged "Muslim faith".

Now, is he a Muslim sympathizer? Perhaps. But that's not the same as being a Muslim.

As for the birth certificate? If you believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, you have to believe that Stanley Ann Dunham got on a plane in 1961 and flew all the way to Kenya just to give birth to a child. It's not necessarily the wisest thing for a eight- to nine-months pregnant woman to get on an airplane and make an international flight (which would have been MUCH longer in 1961). That said, I DO believe that if Barack Obama had released his long-form birth certificate waayyy back when this whole question of his birth arose, he could have avoided a lot of controversy.

I have serious problems with Obama's policies. I have problems with the way the whole health care law was handled. And I get the impression that he wants to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with those who would love nothing more than to bomb us into oblivion.

But spending energy on the above issues takes away energy we could be using to deal with the very real problems we have as a country.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

The root word of conservative is conserve; today the conservatives in America consider those who want to conserve eco-terrorists (some are, but most are responsible Americans who treasure clean air, clean water and our Planet). The modern GOP looks back to a time before FDR and Woodrow Wilson in the era known as the Gilded Age, when the power elite ruled with an iron fist and labor struggled six days a week without hope for a better future. A time when profit and personal power were their only concern, when and our rivers served to carry away heavy metals and factories filled the air with caustic smoke.

Today, those who call themselves conservatives are mostly fools, unable or unwilling to critically think and seriously consider the consequences of the modern day Reactionary ideology. They lap up propaganda and parrot the very words they hear and read, pushing the agenda of demagogues mostly harmful to them but of great benefit to the power elite.

more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth.

true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responisbility. Freedom and responsibiliy include both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberals want the govt to somehow guarnatee equal results to everyone regardless of abilities or hard work.

You mean like THIS "True Conservative?"

 

[Wry Catcher]

The other common characteristic of the contemporary self defined conservative is an inability to defend their closely held beliefs. They love to proselytize but are quick to to attack when challenged to defend their ideology ("more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth") and when intimidation fails they runaway.

 

[tooAlive]

The root word of conservative is conserve; today the conservatives in America consider those who want to conserve eco-terrorists (some are, but most are responsible Americans who treasure clean air, clean water and our Planet). The modern GOP looks back to a time before FDR and Woodrow Wilson in the era known as the Gilded Age, when the power elite ruled with an iron fist and labor struggled six days a week without hope for a better future. A time when profit and personal power were their only concern, when and our rivers served to carry away heavy metals and factories filled the air with caustic smoke.

Today, those who call themselves conservatives are mostly fools, unable or unwilling to critically think and seriously consider the consequences of the modern day Reactionary ideology. They lap up propaganda and parrot the very words they hear and read, pushing the agenda of demagogues mostly harmful to them but of great benefit to the power elite.

more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth.

true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility. Freedom and responsibility include both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberals want the govt to somehow guarantee equal results to everyone regardless of abilities or hard work.

Written with the surety of a true believer, a parrot without consideration of the consequences of the ideology which seeks to go back to a time when misery, child labor, poor health care and poverty were the norm. You don't even realize the only talking points are those you parrot, "true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility". Anarchy ain't the utopia Randians think it will be.

You are free and have greater liberty than any generation to come before. The side you support wants to deprive some of our citizens of liberty and happiness but guise their bigotry with words and phrases only a fool believes. DOMA, aptly named would the The Act to Deny some Citizens their "unalienable Rights" to be happy and deprive them of the economic and personal benefits of married life.

Your side wants to deprive labor of the right to bargain collectively for wages and benefits; deprive the working poor of access to health care, deregulate the financial services industry, reduce the inspections of our food. and gut the EPA.

That sort of "small government" thinking is exactly what the Plutocrats want you to believe. You and others like you are being duped not by Big Brother, but by the Koch Brothers and other members of the power elite, including those in The Congress and State Legislatures who accept bribes in trade for their support.

Conservatism is far from anarchy. Libertarianism may be a bit closer, but not even.

I hear that talking point from liberals all the time, but it's not even a rational comparison. Unless you have no idea what conservatism stands for, in which case your fallacious argument is understood.

 

[tooAlive]

The other common characteristic of the contemporary self defined conservative is an inability to defend their closely held beliefs. They love to proselytize but are quick to to attack when challenged to defend their ideology ("more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth") and when intimidation fails they runaway.

What's so hard to defend about our beliefs?

We want a smaller government with fewer regulations.
We want lower taxes for all americans. Not just some corporations and special interest groups.
We want more emphasis on personal responsibility; not government dependency.
We believe that the private sector is always more effective and efficient than the government.
We believe in a traditional marriage between a man and a woman.
We believe human life begins at conception; not birth.
We believe a woman's right to choose should be whether to have sex or not.
Pregnancy isn't a choice, it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice. (Rape is a different story, however.)
We believe people should be hired for jobs based on ability; not race or color.
We believe Americans should have the right to protect themselves.

We believe we are One Nation, Under God, Indivisible with Liberty and Justice for All.

 

[Wry Catcher]

more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth.

true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility. Freedom and responsibility include both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberals want the govt to somehow guarantee equal results to everyone regardless of abilities or hard work.

Written with the surety of a true believer, a parrot without consideration of the consequences of the ideology which seeks to go back to a time when misery, child labor, poor health care and poverty were the norm. You don't even realize the only talking points are those you parrot, "true conservatives what small government and individual freedom and responsibility". Anarchy ain't the utopia Randians think it will be.

You are free and have greater liberty than any generation to come before. The side you support wants to deprive some of our citizens of liberty and happiness but guise their bigotry with words and phrases only a fool believes. DOMA, aptly named would the The Act to Deny some Citizens their "unalienable Rights" to be happy and deprive them of the economic and personal benefits of married life.

Your side wants to deprive labor of the right to bargain collectively for wages and benefits; deprive the working poor of access to health care, deregulate the financial services industry, reduce the inspections of our food. and gut the EPA.

That sort of "small government" thinking is exactly what the Plutocrats want you to believe. You and others like you are being duped not by Big Brother, but by the Koch Brothers and other members of the power elite, including those in The Congress and State Legislatures who accept bribes in trade for their support.

Conservatism is far from anarchy. Libertarianism may be a bit closer, but not even.

I hear that talking point from liberals all the time, but it's not even a rational comparison. Unless you have no idea what conservatism stands for, in which case your fallacious argument is understood.

This is the second time I've been accused of using talking points. Please post the source of the talking point you allege I have used.

Explain what you find irrational in my post, oh, and read a bit more closely. I didn't write conservativism = anarchy; my comment put anarchy and Randians in the same set.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Well, we have some friends coming soon for dinner. So, I guess the waiting for a rational response from the right remains a waste of time. So, I stand by my comment from 7 hours ago:

The other common characteristic of the contemporary self defined conservative is an inability to defend their closely held beliefs. They love to proselytize but are quick to to attack when challenged to defend their ideology ("more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth") and when intimidation fails they runaway.

 

[allyn211]

Well, we have some friends coming soon for dinner. So, I guess the waiting for a rational response from the right remains a waste of time. So, I stand by my comment from 7 hours ago:

The other common characteristic of the contemporary self defined conservative is an inability to defend their closely held beliefs. They love to proselytize but are quick to to attack when challenged to defend their ideology ("more liberal bullshit and failed talking points. nothing in your post even approaches the truth") and when intimidation fails they runaway.

Unfortunately, Wry Catcher, that is true of several self-described conservatives.

I've been accused by one conservative (not on this board) as "defending a Marxist" because I asked for authoritative proof that Barack Obama was a Muslim. I have serious problems with Obama's policies. I dislike the way health care reform was rammed down our throats. And I think Obama is very naive about foreign policy--he seems to think that if we just talk to our enemies, we can get them to be their friends.

But instead of giving me authoritative proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim, the person told me that I was "defending a Marxist". I fail to see how asking for proof means I'm defending someone.

 

[Dutch]

If they make the IDs completely free and EASY to obtain I dont mind.


The big thing is it will cost tax payer money to do it.

Its going to cost Millions.


Now why do we have to spend millions to "fix" what aint broken?


There is no significant voter fraud in the US.

Nothing at a level that could change any election outcome.

1. why should it be free to obtain an ID?
2. how many people in the USA today do not have some form of govt issued ID?
3. how much voter fraud must occur before it becomes "significant"?
4. in a close election one or two fraudulent votes could change the outcome
5. Why do you object to proving who you are when you go to vote? Did you prove your identity when you registered to vote?


on Obama:
1. why does the media continue to give him a pass on his past?
2. why has the media ignored his past associations with known radicals?
3. His step father was a muslim
4. He did go to a muslim school in Indonesia
5. He GAVE planes and tanks to the muslim brotherhood in Egypt


Answer those and then I will have some more for you.

According to your theory, I never knew there were that many African Americans who are Catholic. You know, all the ones that go to Notre Dame, Boston College, Georgetown to play sports.

 

[editec]

I have serious problems with Obama's policies.

Me too.

I have problems with the way the whole health care law was handled.

Me, too

And I get the impression that he wants to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with those who would love nothing more than to bomb us into oblivion.

Nah, that's silly. Look at his record in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But spending energy on the above issues takes away energy we could be using to deal with the very real problems we have as a country.

Yes it does.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

Perhaps the fact that you're attmpting to cram your self identification into a tiny box (conservative) is the REAL problem, eh?

Can you really describe the complex understanding you have of this world in ONE WORD?

Amigo, every problem you identified with Obama (except the Kumbayah quip) I AGREE WITH.

Based soley on those complaints, you'd fit in better with the REAL LEFT than any conservative group I know.

NOBODY comes down harder on Obama( based on the FACTS) than the American lefties.

Amigo, I think you're an independent thinker.

GOOD for you!

 

[allyn211]

If they make the IDs completely free and EASY to obtain I dont mind.


The big thing is it will cost tax payer money to do it.

Its going to cost Millions.


Now why do we have to spend millions to "fix" what aint broken?


There is no significant voter fraud in the US.

Nothing at a level that could change any election outcome.

1. why should it be free to obtain an ID?
2. how many people in the USA today do not have some form of govt issued ID?
3. how much voter fraud must occur before it becomes "significant"?
4. in a close election one or two fraudulent votes could change the outcome
5. Why do you object to proving who you are when you go to vote? Did you prove your identity when you registered to vote?


on Obama:
1. why does the media continue to give him a pass on his past?
2. why has the media ignored his past associations with known radicals?
3. His step father was a muslim
4. He did go to a muslim school in Indonesia
5. He GAVE planes and tanks to the muslim brotherhood in Egypt


Answer those and then I will have some more for you.

According to your theory, I never knew there were that many African Americans who are Catholic. You know, all the ones that go to Notre Dame, Boston College, Georgetown to play sports.

Saying that someone who went to a Muslim school is Muslim is like saying that someone who went to a Catholic school is automatically Catholic.

I live five minutes away from a large Christian school run by the Churches of Christ. While many (probably the majority) of students who attend there are from the Church of Christ, there are plenty who are not. Same with schools run by Baptists, Methodists, Episcopals, etc.

But I do think Dutch has a valid point with questions one and two. You had better believe that if this were Sarah Palin we were talking about, the media would be all over her supposed "radical" associations.

 

[allyn211]

I have serious problems with Obama's policies.

Me too.


Me, too



Nah, that's silly. Look at his record in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Yes it does.

So tell me, am I the only conservative in the United States of America that feels this way?

Perhaps the fact that you're attmpting to cram your self identification into a tiny box (conservative) is the REAL problem, eh?

Can you really describe the complex understanding you have of this world in ONE WORD?

Amigo, every problem you identified with Obama (except the Kumbayah quip) I AGREE WITH.

Based soley on those complaints, you'd fit in better with the REAL LEFT than any conservative group I know.

NOBODY comes down harder on Obama( based on the FACTS) than the American lefties.

Amigo, I think you're an independent thinker.

GOOD for you!

Just a picky: I'm an amiga, not an amigo.

The one reason I wouldn't fit in with American Lefties is that I believe in limited government. But considering that one conservative (not here at this site) has referred to me as "defending a Marxist" and accused my conservative best friend of being "either a closet Progressive or dumber than a doornail" because she agreed with me, maybe I should start hanging out at the Huffington Post, no?