Is There Such A Thing As "Right" And "Wrong?"

[pacer]

Or maybe it's a disease.

Exactly. God is a man-made concept. Man created disease.

Not sure how this follows.

AIDS is a man-made disease and not God's vengeance. The 'God is man-made concept' is an adlib.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Exactly. God is a man-made concept. Man created disease.

Not sure how this follows.

AIDS is a man-made disease and not God's vengeance. The 'God is man-made concept' is an adlib.

The origins of AIDS are speculative. No one knows its origins at this point, that I am aware of.
Do you have a citation you could point me to?

 

[HenryBHough]

I used to think AIDS was a God-sent plague to punish humankind.

Then Obama got elected and it became clear that AIDS was just a minor natural thing.

 

[pacer]

The origins of AIDS are speculative. No one knows its origins at this point, that I am aware of.
Do you have a citation you could point me to?

Scientists identified a type of chimpanzee in West Africa as the source of HIV infection in humans. They believe that the chimpanzee version of the immunodeficiency virus (called simian immunodeficiency virus or SIV) most likely was transmitted to humans and mutated into HIV when humans hunted these chimpanzees for meat and came into contact with their infected blood. Over decades, the virus slowly spread across Africa and later into other parts of the world.

The earliest known case of infection with HIV-1 in a human was detected in a blood sample collected in 1959 from a man in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (How he became infected is not known.) Genetic analysis of this blood sample suggested that HIV-1 may have stemmed from a single virus in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

We know that the virus has existed in the United States since at least the mid- to late 1970s. From 1979–1981 rare types of pneumonia, cancer, and other illnesses were being reported by doctors in Los Angeles and New York among a number of male patients who had sex with other men. These were conditions not usually found in people with healthy immune systems.

In 1982 public health officials began to use the term "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome," or AIDS, to describe the occurrences of opportunistic infections, Kaposi's sarcoma (a kind of cancer), and Pneumocystis jirovecii pneumonia in previously healthy people. Formal tracking (surveillance) of AIDS cases began that year in the United States.

In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy-associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).

For many years scientists theorized as to the origins of HIV and how it appeared in the human population, most believing that HIV originated in other primates. Then in 1999, an international team of researchers reported that they had discovered the origins of HIV-1, the predominant strain of HIV in the developed world. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa had been identified as the original source of the virus. The researchers believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood.

http://www.theaidsinstitute.org/node/259

 

[thebrucebeat]

The origins of AIDS are speculative. No one knows its origins at this point, that I am aware of.
Do you have a citation you could point me to?

Scientists identified a type of chimpanzee in West Africa as the source of HIV infection in humans. They believe that the chimpanzee version of the immunodeficiency virus (called simian immunodeficiency virus or SIV) most likely was transmitted to humans and mutated into HIV when humans hunted these chimpanzees for meat and came into contact with their infected blood. Over decades, the virus slowly spread across Africa and later into other parts of the world.

The earliest known case of infection with HIV-1 in a human was detected in a blood sample collected in 1959 from a man in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (How he became infected is not known.) Genetic analysis of this blood sample suggested that HIV-1 may have stemmed from a single virus in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

We know that the virus has existed in the United States since at least the mid- to late 1970s. From 1979–1981 rare types of pneumonia, cancer, and other illnesses were being reported by doctors in Los Angeles and New York among a number of male patients who had sex with other men. These were conditions not usually found in people with healthy immune systems.

In 1982 public health officials began to use the term "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome," or AIDS, to describe the occurrences of opportunistic infections, Kaposi's sarcoma (a kind of cancer), and Pneumocystis jirovecii pneumonia in previously healthy people. Formal tracking (surveillance) of AIDS cases began that year in the United States.

In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy-associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).

For many years scientists theorized as to the origins of HIV and how it appeared in the human population, most believing that HIV originated in other primates. Then in 1999, an international team of researchers reported that they had discovered the origins of HIV-1, the predominant strain of HIV in the developed world. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa had been identified as the original source of the virus. The researchers believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood.

Where did HIV come from? | The AIDS Institute

That is what I understand.
So if true (not confirmed) then you have just shown that it is not in any way "man made".

 

[DriftingSand]

There aren't many heterosexuals defending homosexuality in Africa where the greatest percentage of heterosexual deaths from AIDS are occurring.
So you can go with that if you like, but the evidence to support it will be very hard to come by.

Well ... I wasn't really seeking to discuss God's wrath in this thread but it's hard to keep everyone corralled into discussing the issue at hand (including myself).

I don't necessarily believe that AIDS is God's "answer" to homosexuality. I don't believe that God is happy about the homosexual lifestyle but I don't believe that He's happy about sexual promiscuity in any of it's several forms either so if AIDS is a punishment meted out by God then it could very well apply to anyone committing sexual sin in any of its diverse forms.

Or maybe it's a disease.

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Well ... I wasn't really seeking to discuss God's wrath in this thread but it's hard to keep everyone corralled into discussing the issue at hand (including myself).

I don't necessarily believe that AIDS is God's "answer" to homosexuality. I don't believe that God is happy about the homosexual lifestyle but I don't believe that He's happy about sexual promiscuity in any of it's several forms either so if AIDS is a punishment meted out by God then it could very well apply to anyone committing sexual sin in any of its diverse forms.

Or maybe it's a disease.

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

So why not just leave it there. Why do people make these bizarre speculations?

 

[pacer]

The origins of AIDS are speculative. No one knows its origins at this point, that I am aware of.
Do you have a citation you could point me to?

Scientists identified a type of chimpanzee in West Africa as the source of HIV infection in humans. They believe that the chimpanzee version of the immunodeficiency virus (called simian immunodeficiency virus or SIV) most likely was transmitted to humans and mutated into HIV when humans hunted these chimpanzees for meat and came into contact with their infected blood. Over decades, the virus slowly spread across Africa and later into other parts of the world.

The earliest known case of infection with HIV-1 in a human was detected in a blood sample collected in 1959 from a man in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (How he became infected is not known.) Genetic analysis of this blood sample suggested that HIV-1 may have stemmed from a single virus in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

We know that the virus has existed in the United States since at least the mid- to late 1970s. From 1979–1981 rare types of pneumonia, cancer, and other illnesses were being reported by doctors in Los Angeles and New York among a number of male patients who had sex with other men. These were conditions not usually found in people with healthy immune systems.

In 1982 public health officials began to use the term "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome," or AIDS, to describe the occurrences of opportunistic infections, Kaposi's sarcoma (a kind of cancer), and Pneumocystis jirovecii pneumonia in previously healthy people. Formal tracking (surveillance) of AIDS cases began that year in the United States.

In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy-associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).

For many years scientists theorized as to the origins of HIV and how it appeared in the human population, most believing that HIV originated in other primates. Then in 1999, an international team of researchers reported that they had discovered the origins of HIV-1, the predominant strain of HIV in the developed world. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa had been identified as the original source of the virus. The researchers believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood.

Where did HIV come from? | The AIDS Institute

That is what I understand.
So if true (not confirmed) then you have just shown that it is not in any way "man made".

What do you mean not 'man made'? The disease was transmitted by humans to humans by eating the infected meat and blood of chimpanzees.

 

[Hollie]

Well ... I wasn't really seeking to discuss God's wrath in this thread but it's hard to keep everyone corralled into discussing the issue at hand (including myself).

I don't necessarily believe that AIDS is God's "answer" to homosexuality. I don't believe that God is happy about the homosexual lifestyle but I don't believe that He's happy about sexual promiscuity in any of it's several forms either so if AIDS is a punishment meted out by God then it could very well apply to anyone committing sexual sin in any of its diverse forms.

Or maybe it's a disease.

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

What a shame that innocent children are punished along side the wicked.

The gods have a skewed sense of punishment/vengence/retribution.

 

[DriftingSand]

So ... anyway ... we've established that most folks (whether atheist, agnostic, or secularist) really don't have a hard and fast definition of "right and wrong." Most seem to see it as a nebulous concept that bends and sways like a reed in the wind. It's just whatever you want it to be when you wake up in the morning.

I'm still curious to know what an evolutionist would say on the subject. If mankind is just one, big mistake then there can't be a moral standard because man is just the "natural" result of evolving bacteria that have no sense of right and wrong.

 

[DriftingSand]

Or maybe it's a disease.

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

What a shame that innocent children are punished along side the wicked.

The gods have a skewed sense of punishment/vengence/retribution.

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

 

[Hollie]

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

What a shame that innocent children are punished along side the wicked.

The gods have a skewed sense of punishment/vengence/retribution.

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

I think blame is the wrong term in that it, at times, tends to avoid assigning responsibility.

If there is any such concept of an attribute that is common to humanity, protecting children tends to span all cultures and societies.

What a shame the gods don't seem to share that attribute.

 

[DriftingSand]

What a shame that innocent children are punished along side the wicked.

The gods have a skewed sense of punishment/vengence/retribution.

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

I think blame is the wrong term in that it, at times, tends to avoid assigning responsibility.

If there is any such concept of an attribute that is common to humanity, protecting children tends to span all cultures and societies.

What a shame the gods don't seem to share that attribute.

Well you certainly can't blame gods that you don't believe exist. That leaves people to blame.

 

[pacer]

If you believe in God, you have to believe he was a terrible role model.

 

[Hollie]

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

I think blame is the wrong term in that it, at times, tends to avoid assigning responsibility.

If there is any such concept of an attribute that is common to humanity, protecting children tends to span all cultures and societies.

What a shame the gods don't seem to share that attribute.

Well you certainly can't blame gods that you don't believe exist. That leaves people to blame.

I certainly don't blame any gods. Why did your comment assessing blame include "him".

 

[DriftingSand]

I think blame is the wrong term in that it, at times, tends to avoid assigning responsibility.

If there is any such concept of an attribute that is common to humanity, protecting children tends to span all cultures and societies.

What a shame the gods don't seem to share that attribute.

Well you certainly can't blame gods that you don't believe exist. That leaves people to blame.

I certainly don't blame any gods. Why did your comment assessing blame include "him".

I don't recall placing any blame on a "him."

Here's my post:

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

 

[Hollie]

Well you certainly can't blame gods that you don't believe exist. That leaves people to blame.

I certainly don't blame any gods. Why did your comment assessing blame include "him".

I don't recall placing any blame on a "him."

Here's my post:

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

Did you forget this part:
Originally Posted by DriftingSand

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

 

[DriftingSand]

I certainly don't blame any gods. Why did your comment assessing blame include "him".

I don't recall placing any blame on a "him."

Here's my post:

If we're to blame anyone it should be the wicked folks who subjected their children to their wickedness.

Did you forget this part:
Originally Posted by DriftingSand

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

See emboldened portion above^^^^^^^^^

 

[Hollie]

I don't recall placing any blame on a "him."

Here's my post:

Did you forget this part:
Originally Posted by DriftingSand

True. Which could be used by Him to punish the wicked. I really don't know.

See emboldened portion above^^^^^^^^^

See also the part about "him".

The gargantuan font does add melodrama, though.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Another argument could be that God's vengeance is upon heterosexuals who themself engage in homosexual behaviour.

Possible. That certainly happens.
Do you think that rises to pandemic proportions, though?
Really?

Yes. I believe most heterosexual couples have done it. When does god take out his vengeance?

You think most heterosexual couples have had gay sex outside of marriage?
Really?