Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Redfish]

That comment was devoid of thought or reason...Redfish

can you imagine 40,000 people down at this place on the river that they can get water that you claim, all at once? And water is very heavy...and they need a lot of it to be able to flush their toilets, wash up and drink....if they have cars they would probably use their car to load the water in...is there a parking lot by 'the river' to hold 20,000 cars driving in and out of it?

like most liberals, you totally missed the point. The point----------------you are not paying for the water, you are paying to have it delivered to your house by pipelines.

If you cannot pay for city water delivery, then your option is to go get it and carry it home yourself.

Those pipelines have not been fixed or repaired in decades, if not a century.... The city of Detroit's water pipes are leaking everywhere and they lose 35,000,000,000 gallons a year, 35 BILLION gallons a year is just running in to the ground, from these rotted pipes...

IT'S a HUGE problem, and this is why Detroit customers have to pay nearly DOUBLE the price for water than the average in the Nation....

So, it would be NICE to THINK that the money people in Detroit are paying is for the maintenance of the water lines etc with their bill....but apparently it's not....who knows where the money is going and who it is going to....?

it's just total MISMANAGEMENT of the City, all around...imo.

And your point is??????????? Detroit has been run by democrats, liberals, unions, and minorities for years. The results are obvious.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

That would be covered under "Right to life," in which the Declaration of Independence asserts.

A Government that is unable to provide for its People is inept and devoid of purpose. Even the Romans built miles upon miles of aqueducts for their People. This doesn't mean private corporations should be barred from providing water though.

 

[Mathbud1]

That would be covered under "Right to life," in which the Declaration of Independence asserts.

A Government that is unable to provide for its People is inept and devoid of purpose. Even the Romans built miles upon miles of aqueducts for their People. This doesn't mean private corporations should be barred from providing water though.

The holy government from whom all blessings flow right?

The government cannot create clean water from nothing. It costs money to clean the water. It costs money to transport the water. The amount of clean water that can be provided is limited by several factors: the availability of water to be cleaned (a major issue in desert areas); space for placement of treatment facilities (a major issue in urban areas); cost to build and run treatment facilites and transportation methods (pipes.) Given these (and any other limitations I have not listed) how do you propose the government should provide clean water to its citizens?

If the government decides to provide clean water to all citizens paid for by taxes, there is no control on how much people use. A rich guy can waste thousands of gallons of water washing cars, filling pools, watering expansive gardens, etc. and the cost has to be shared by the poor. A crazy guy can leave the water running 24/7 in his house because he likes the sound it makes and the poor have to share the cost.

If the government decides to provide clean water to all citizens on a pay-as-you-use-it basis, there is an automatic control built in to prevent excess use. The rich guy can wash a thousand cars, water ten thousand rose bushes, etc. and he will pay the expense. The crazy guy can choose to let the water run 24/7 just to hear the sound, and his neighbor won't have to pay for it.

 

[Andylusion]

The people of Detroit live in a location that is on a 50 mile long river that is connected to two huge fresh water lakes. The water in the lakes is publicly owned by the citizens of Detroit, the surrounding states and the federal government. Industries that are owned controlled by the richest people in the world are allowed to profit from the water and they are allowed to pollute it to increase the profitability of their businesses. The same people who argue that a rancher should have the right to graze cattle on federal property want to deny people the use of water on federal property. The cattle have a right to the resource on the federal property but the people in Detroit don't.

That made no logical sense, and didn't really make a point about anything, except that you don't grasp property rights.

 

[Plasmaball]

And what's your proposal for water distribution?

No-charge distribution to everyone?

i dont have that answer right now...water in the future and now is becoming a really big issue.

Oh course we could do nothing and devolve into whatever that end point turns out to be..Because you know, at least you have your guns

You have time to post pointless diatribes about gun rights but no time to post about an actual approach to water?

ok.

yes because im still thinking about.

While water may or should be a right, you have to factor in government control, vs private sector and making money when you pay for your water bill. Bottled water is fairly straight forward. they produce a product and can choose to buy it or not.
So the real question is should people have free clean water to there homes? it can go both ways because that water isnt totally for drinking, but you should have access to free drinking water.


What you can't handle an honest answer?

 

[Andylusion]

That's a cop out....

? really ? They are the one's making the decisions are they not ? Detroit's government certainly wasn't installed there by a coup .

Yes ....really!

People elect their governments in good faith. Believing they will do the best job for them.

Plus many of these people are the citizens in America, who do not vote....which is 50% of our citizens....

AND, you don't know the counter part of who got in office, would have been better or WORSE....

so yes, it's a cop out.

The people generally get what they ask for. They wanted a pro-union, pro-welfare, pro-crime government, and they got it.

Now they are reaping the results of what they voted for.

If the public had wanted to clean up the corruption in Detroit, it could have been done a long time ago. Instead, they voted and promoted the most scummy people, because... yes they might have been scummy, but they promised us food stamps, public housing, and welfare checks. They promised us pro-Union legislation to drive up wages. They promised us to hold the police in check, to prevent them from knocking my darling baby drug dealers head.

Yes, the government is screwing the people over with bad policies.

But who asked for those policies? The public. The public got what they asked for, and now they are upset about it.

You should read Detroit, by Charlie LeDuff. He goes through his fight to clean up city politicians in Detroit, and the corruption, and the waste. No matter what he investigated, and published, it didn't matter, because the citizens wanted these criminal in power.

The public voted for their own suffering, and they got it. That's all there is to it.

 

[Plasmaball]

And what's your proposal for water distribution?

No-charge distribution to everyone?

i dont have that answer right now...water in the future and now is becoming a really big issue.

Oh course we could do nothing and devolve into whatever that end point turns out to be..Because you know, at least you have your guns

No, it's not. As the cost of water goes up, because supply has decreased, the result will be that the value in investing in new sources of water, will go up.

As investment increases, supply will meet the demand.

Israel is a perfect example. The supply of water is naturally low in a desert area. But as the population continued to grow from immigrants coming into Israel, the demand increased the value of finding new supply. Israel is now the leader in both water conservation, and water production through desalination plants.

If the water was truly a crisis, Israel sure doesn't seem to have a problem.

When the free-market system is allowed to work, water is, and most other resources are not a problem.

Water scarcity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ah the free market meme...shame...

 

[Andylusion]

M 14.
What if, the government bought up a whole bunch of ammunition and guns, causing through supply and demand, the prices for guns and ammo to rise, so that guns and ammo were so expensive, that near no one was able to buy them and pay for them....

What do you mean "what if"?
Ammo prices are way up because the government has increased demand, especially while we were actively at war.

Wouldn't THAT be breaking the 2nd amendment, only in an underhanded way?

No. Supply and demand.

I disagree....

not in the scenario where government is buying up the ammo because they are at war, or need the gun manufacturers to make their guns for war instead of guns for we the people....

but a government that intentionally went out and bought up the guns and ammo SO THAT YOU could not....afford them.

that is an indirect way for them to use their power, to take your 2nd amendment right, away from you....not if you are wealthy, but if you are middle class and or less wealthy.

There is no real evidence that government is buying ammo, just to prevent people from having ammo. Further, that would be counter productive.

As the price for ammo goes up, more people start to supply ammo into the market, resulting increase in ammo on the market, would drive the government to buy ever greater and greater amounts of ammo until they went bankrupt.

Where is this ammo being stored, or disposed of? By now, there should be several million tons of ammo. If the estimates are to be believed, roughly 10 Billion bullets are produced every year. That's 28 Million a day. That is what is known as "a bunch". Where's the government hiding 28 Million bullets every day? The Pentagon is big, but it's not that big. I can tell you that if the military was moving them, we'd have heard something from our soldiers by now. Moving 28 Million bullets a day, or even a significant fraction of that, would raise a few eye brows somewhere.

 

[Andylusion]

i dont have that answer right now...water in the future and now is becoming a really big issue.

Oh course we could do nothing and devolve into whatever that end point turns out to be..Because you know, at least you have your guns

No, it's not. As the cost of water goes up, because supply has decreased, the result will be that the value in investing in new sources of water, will go up.

As investment increases, supply will meet the demand.

Israel is a perfect example. The supply of water is naturally low in a desert area. But as the population continued to grow from immigrants coming into Israel, the demand increased the value of finding new supply. Israel is now the leader in both water conservation, and water production through desalination plants.

If the water was truly a crisis, Israel sure doesn't seem to have a problem.

When the free-market system is allowed to work, water is, and most other resources are not a problem.

Water scarcity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ah the free market meme...shame...

If anything, your link validates my position. Try again.

 

[Andylusion]

i dont have that answer right now...water in the future and now is becoming a really big issue.

Oh course we could do nothing and devolve into whatever that end point turns out to be..Because you know, at least you have your guns

You have time to post pointless diatribes about gun rights but no time to post about an actual approach to water?

ok.

yes because im still thinking about.

While water may or should be a right, you have to factor in government control, vs private sector and making money when you pay for your water bill. Bottled water is fairly straight forward. they produce a product and can choose to buy it or not.
So the real question is should people have free clean water to there homes? it can go both ways because that water isnt totally for drinking, but you should have access to free drinking water.


What you can't handle an honest answer?

No, I totally disagree with that. You sucking air, does not entitle you to jack squat. When you produce something of value, that you can then trade, for water, then you have earned what you have.

Fogging a mirror, does not mean you are 'due' something by anyone.

Now if a charity wishes to give you something, that's fine. That's their choice. But you are not entitled to what I have, because you consumed oxygen, and complained.

 

[itfitzme]

Tiffani Bell (@tiffani) and Kristy Tillman (@KristyT), who have never met in person, created the Detroit Water Project, a website that matches potential donors with the water department account information of needy Detroit citizens.




Twitter campaign tries to keep Detroit water flowing

Well, now there are people actually finding solutions to problems instead of worrying about whether they "deserve" it.

27 pages of bs here for nothing important and two women manage to find a solution with only 140 character tweets.

That's the difference between brilliance an bullshit.

As Shakespeare said "...a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing."

There is something to be learned here, a teachable moment, an example that should be remembered every morning. Along with the question, "What have I really done lately?"

 

[Mathbud1]

i dont have that answer right now...water in the future and now is becoming a really big issue.

Oh course we could do nothing and devolve into whatever that end point turns out to be..Because you know, at least you have your guns

You have time to post pointless diatribes about gun rights but no time to post about an actual approach to water?

ok.

yes because im still thinking about.

While water may or should be a right, you have to factor in government control, vs private sector and making money when you pay for your water bill. Bottled water is fairly straight forward. they produce a product and can choose to buy it or not.
So the real question is should people have free clean water to there homes? it can go both ways because that water isnt totally for drinking, but you should have access to free drinking water.


What you can't handle an honest answer?

I'm sorry I misread your last post. I thought you said you didn't have time to answer when you said you didn't have the answer.

I was reading too fast I guess.

 

[Politico]

M 14.

What if, the government bought up a whole bunch of ammunition and guns, causing through supply and demand, the prices for guns and ammo to rise, so that guns and ammo were so expensive, that near no one was able to buy them and pay for them....

Wouldn't THAT be breaking the 2nd amendment, only in an underhanded way?

This government in Detroit, because of their lack of management, lack of repair, wasteful spending, has raised these citizens water prices, to where they are DOUBLE the price of the average American's water...and they just got raised another 8%....

now $100 bucks a month may not be a lot for you and me, but it may be for those less fortunate than us...and month after month and year after year it adds up...

I don't think these people should get their water for FREE, but I don't think they should put up with a mismanaged government run water works facility's shenanigans and mismanagement either.

Detroit loses 35,000,000,000(that's 35 billion) gallons of water a year due to broken and leaky pipes, costing $25 MILLION a year that is put on these citizen's bills....

AND once again, we the people, have gotten in to a fight on whether poor people should pay or not pay in Detroit....

a distraction

When the REAL issue and root of the problem, is Detroit's supposed Government's, mismanagement

The gov't IS already buying up as much ammo as possible making prices skyrocket and making it difficult to buy. So Yes i have a Right to own a gun but useless if i can't buy ammo.
FYI ~ Obama has done MORE for the gun industry than anyone else in the past 50 years years. Even hard to find a Gun.


1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security? It's Time For A National Conversation - Forbes
President Obama: The Greatest Gun Salesman In America
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/u...-sales-of-guns-and-ammunition-surge.html?_r=0


My water bill this past month was $135. I live in Oregon where we Have Water flowing in streams, creeks and rivers Everywhere. I'm surrounded by fresh clean water. And as I stated previous...The state owns ALL water including Rain & Snow Melt.

I can be sure that If I do not pay my water bill it will be shut off...Been there and done that...
I was $50 short on a bill. They send a pink notice...2 days before shutoff they personally place a yellow warning on the front door...No Pay they shut it off at the end of the day...Can't get it put back on until the next day. It totally Sucks as everyone that passes my house can see that yellow notice.

It was a mix up at the bank. I had paid but do you think they give a damn what my excuse was NOPE..And they did get the check I sent so then I had a credit for paying them twice...Do you think they care about that NO. WHY...Because it's MY Responsibility to make sure I pay the bill on time without any excuses. I now have credit & know that I'm ahead, so no worries of That situation ever happening again.

You live in Oregon so I cannot feel sorry for you. But from a rights perspective this scenario applies to the question.. As I said water is not a human right. But denying you access to it under threat of arrest is fundamental violation.

 

[Plasmaball]

No, it's not. As the cost of water goes up, because supply has decreased, the result will be that the value in investing in new sources of water, will go up.

As investment increases, supply will meet the demand.

Israel is a perfect example. The supply of water is naturally low in a desert area. But as the population continued to grow from immigrants coming into Israel, the demand increased the value of finding new supply. Israel is now the leader in both water conservation, and water production through desalination plants.

If the water was truly a crisis, Israel sure doesn't seem to have a problem.

When the free-market system is allowed to work, water is, and most other resources are not a problem.

Water scarcity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ah the free market meme...shame...

If anything, your link validates my position. Try again.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/satellites-show-major-southwest-groundwater-105431089.html

Nah it doesnt...free market doesn't solve water doing this. Nor does the other link

 

[Plasmaball]

You have time to post pointless diatribes about gun rights but no time to post about an actual approach to water?

ok.

yes because im still thinking about.

While water may or should be a right, you have to factor in government control, vs private sector and making money when you pay for your water bill. Bottled water is fairly straight forward. they produce a product and can choose to buy it or not.
So the real question is should people have free clean water to there homes? it can go both ways because that water isnt totally for drinking, but you should have access to free drinking water.


What you can't handle an honest answer?

No, I totally disagree with that. You sucking air, does not entitle you to jack squat. When you produce something of value, that you can then trade, for water, then you have earned what you have.

Fogging a mirror, does not mean you are 'due' something by anyone.

Now if a charity wishes to give you something, that's fine. That's their choice. But you are not entitled to what I have, because you consumed oxygen, and complained.

You don't own water..you pay for it.your argument doesn't carry water.....

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is water a human right? Dunno..................however it seems that a lot of capitalists have managed to turn it into a commodity.

Wonder what's going to happen when they figure out how to make money off of air?

 

[Andylusion]

Water scarcity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ah the free market meme...shame...

If anything, your link validates my position. Try again.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/satellites-show-major-southwest-groundwater-105431089.html

Nah it doesnt...free market doesn't solve water doing this. Nor does the other link

Actually, yeah it does. I don't understand you people who look at something that clearly shows those areas with a free-market system supplying water, clearly have water. Those areas with a socialized, or restricted system, clearly don't have water.

Even that link, doesn't prove anything, except that the free-market system is still supplying water to those areas that have a massive drought.

Yes, the Colorado River basin is losing water for a variety of reasons. Tell me, are people dying of thirst yet? Do you see water being shut off throughout the Colorado River basin? Nope? Why? Because the market is working. Is the cost of water rising? Yes. Supply goes down, demand goes up or stays the same, price goes up.

The market is working. As the price goes up, it becomes economical to import water in from farther away, or to produce water from more expensive sources.

Thus, the people there still have water, even though the primary source of water has declined.

Again, you proved my position with now two links. Please continue.

 

[Andylusion]

Is water a human right? Dunno..................however it seems that a lot of capitalists have managed to turn it into a commodity.

Wonder what's going to happen when they figure out how to make money off of air?

Capitalism doesn't "turn something into a commodity". Everything *IS* a commodity.

"well I don't want it to be a commodity"..... doesn't matter what you want. Everything that exists, is a commodity, whether you are a capitalist, or a socialist. It's all still a commodity.

Air is a commodity to. You haven't seen cans of compressed air before?

Everything... as in EVERYTHING... meaning EVERY SINGLE THING ON THE PLANET.... is a commodity.

What do you think they are selling in that tank?

Now the difference between you and me, is that I think this is a good thing. I like those products. I wouldn't be able to do some of the things I do, without those products.

 

[Redfish]

Is water a human right? Dunno..................however it seems that a lot of capitalists have managed to turn it into a commodity.

Wonder what's going to happen when they figure out how to make money off of air?

Capitalism doesn't "turn something into a commodity". Everything *IS* a commodity.

"well I don't want it to be a commodity"..... doesn't matter what you want. Everything that exists, is a commodity, whether you are a capitalist, or a socialist. It's all still a commodity.

Air is a commodity to. You haven't seen cans of compressed air before?

Everything... as in EVERYTHING... meaning EVERY SINGLE THING ON THE PLANET.... is a commodity.

What do you think they are selling in that tank?

Now the difference between you and me, is that I think this is a good thing. I like those products. I wouldn't be able to do some of the things I do, without those products.

just to be clear, you are not paying for the air in the tank. you are paying the guy who compressed it and put it into the tank and you are paying for the tank. The air is free.

Same applies to water, we pay to have it pumped and piped to our homes, we are buying a service to deliver water, not the water itself.

 

[Andylusion]

Is water a human right? Dunno..................however it seems that a lot of capitalists have managed to turn it into a commodity.

Wonder what's going to happen when they figure out how to make money off of air?

Capitalism doesn't "turn something into a commodity". Everything *IS* a commodity.

"well I don't want it to be a commodity"..... doesn't matter what you want. Everything that exists, is a commodity, whether you are a capitalist, or a socialist. It's all still a commodity.

Air is a commodity to. You haven't seen cans of compressed air before?

Everything... as in EVERYTHING... meaning EVERY SINGLE THING ON THE PLANET.... is a commodity.

What do you think they are selling in that tank?

Now the difference between you and me, is that I think this is a good thing. I like those products. I wouldn't be able to do some of the things I do, without those products.

just to be clear, you are not paying for the air in the tank. you are paying the guy who compressed it and put it into the tank and you are paying for the tank. The air is free.

Same applies to water, we pay to have it pumped and piped to our homes, we are buying a service to deliver water, not the water itself.

That's kind of like saying, the wood is free, I'm just paying to have it chopped, cut, sanded, stained, and screwed together as a couch.

I grasp the concept you are trying to push, but from a practical perspective, I don't think there's a difference.