Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Andylusion]

That is my point, it isn't a party deal. People are corrupt. Politicians are people. Therefore, politicians are corrupt. It doesn't matter what party they are from, they are corrupt and it is the corruption that is tearing this country apart.

They won't get "less corruption" because even the most honest human being can be bought. You just need to know what to offer or how much.

What I am saying is that you cannot vote corruption out. You might be able to get it to take a step back, but you are not going to win the game and eventually, that is what is going to destroy us.

Well, you have the right to be wrong. Have a nice day.

That is a very lame post. Should I expect these from you regularly?

You didn't make a point. You didn't have anything new to add to the conversation. There are numerous examples where people voting, and complaining, were able to clean up corruption. You, and I, both cited examples of such.

Yet you still held onto a belief that wasn't supported by the evidence.

I'm not going to bicker with someone, when they haven't made a compelling argument, but just repeat themselves over and over.

You have the right to be wrong, and you may continued to be so. Unless you have something more to add, to me I've made the point, provided evidence. There is nothing more to talk about. This conversation is over.

 

[Andylusion]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/satellites-show-major-southwest-groundwater-105431089.html

Nah it doesnt...free market doesn't solve water doing this. Nor does the other link

Actually, yeah it does. I don't understand you people who look at something that clearly shows those areas with a free-market system supplying water, clearly have water. Those areas with a socialized, or restricted system, clearly don't have water.

Even that link, doesn't prove anything, except that the free-market system is still supplying water to those areas that have a massive drought.

Yes, the Colorado River basin is losing water for a variety of reasons. Tell me, are people dying of thirst yet? Do you see water being shut off throughout the Colorado River basin? Nope? Why? Because the market is working. Is the cost of water rising? Yes. Supply goes down, demand goes up or stays the same, price goes up.

The market is working. As the price goes up, it becomes economical to import water in from farther away, or to produce water from more expensive sources.

Thus, the people there still have water, even though the primary source of water has declined.

Again, you proved my position with now two links. Please continue.

well no the Basin is loosing water for one reason. Use and nothing more. Its causing more harm than good, and will affect the eco system even more. something free markets dont fix.

again your solution to all this is just say " free market" and walk away.

And the alternative is people die of thirst?

People need water. They need to use water, in order to survive, and be productive in society.

My goal, in the capitalist system, is to provide people water. That is being accomplished.

The "free-market" is not to solve the problem of people using water.... people being able to use water is in fact the very goal.

Now, if we just kill off all the people, water usage would drops, and that would solve the Basin drainage.

If you want to go that route, just socialize the water system, and like any other socialized water system, shortages, and reduction of usage will follow.

Yeah, people will be dying of thirst, but that will most certainly fix the problem that is apparently more important to you.

But let me back up a minute.... so the absolute only reason the Colorado Basin is low, is because of use?

Funny.... the NOAA disagrees with you.

Huh... a significant drop in rainfall compared to the average. In other words, I just proved you were full of crap.

 

[Care4all]

like most liberals, you totally missed the point. The point----------------you are not paying for the water, you are paying to have it delivered to your house by pipelines.

If you cannot pay for city water delivery, then your option is to go get it and carry it home yourself.

Those pipelines have not been fixed or repaired in decades, if not a century.... The city of Detroit's water pipes are leaking everywhere and they lose 35,000,000,000 gallons a year, 35 BILLION gallons a year is just running in to the ground, from these rotted pipes...

IT'S a HUGE problem, and this is why Detroit customers have to pay nearly DOUBLE the price for water than the average in the Nation....

So, it would be NICE to THINK that the money people in Detroit are paying is for the maintenance of the water lines etc with their bill....but apparently it's not....who knows where the money is going and who it is going to....?

it's just total MISMANAGEMENT of the City, all around...imo.

And your point is??????????? Detroit has been run by democrats, liberals, unions, and minorities for years. The results are obvious.

no denying that from me....

 

[Care4all]

Actually, yeah it does. I don't understand you people who look at something that clearly shows those areas with a free-market system supplying water, clearly have water. Those areas with a socialized, or restricted system, clearly don't have water.

Even that link, doesn't prove anything, except that the free-market system is still supplying water to those areas that have a massive drought.

Yes, the Colorado River basin is losing water for a variety of reasons. Tell me, are people dying of thirst yet? Do you see water being shut off throughout the Colorado River basin? Nope? Why? Because the market is working. Is the cost of water rising? Yes. Supply goes down, demand goes up or stays the same, price goes up.

The market is working. As the price goes up, it becomes economical to import water in from farther away, or to produce water from more expensive sources.

Thus, the people there still have water, even though the primary source of water has declined.

Again, you proved my position with now two links. Please continue.

well no the Basin is loosing water for one reason. Use and nothing more. Its causing more harm than good, and will affect the eco system even more. something free markets dont fix.

again your solution to all this is just say " free market" and walk away.

And the alternative is people die of thirst?

People need water. They need to use water, in order to survive, and be productive in society.

My goal, in the capitalist system, is to provide people water. That is being accomplished.

The "free-market" is not to solve the problem of people using water.... people being able to use water is in fact the very goal.

Now, if we just kill off all the people, water usage would drops, and that would solve the Basin drainage.

If you want to go that route, just socialize the water system, and like any other socialized water system, shortages, and reduction of usage will follow.

Yeah, people will be dying of thirst, but that will most certainly fix the problem that is apparently more important to you.

But let me back up a minute.... so the absolute only reason the Colorado Basin is low, is because of use?

Funny.... the NOAA disagrees with you.

Huh... a significant drop in rainfall compared to the average. In other words, I just proved you were full of crap.

maybe it is because of OVERUSE, and not planning for the non-rainy day, the droughts that always come in cycles?

 

[gtarguy921]

Is "Water" a Human Right?

Is life?

 

[Care4all]

I read the other day if you want to make a penny off of the scarcity of water, to invest in agriculture....this is what people truly need the water for....for food, so water shortages mean food shortages and the investment firm was suggesting buying in to that as a means of making some money off of it....

when this kind of financial advice is being promoted by reputable investment firms....you KNOW the scarcity of water is NOT just a conspiracy or made up.

 

[Redfish]

The wood was free. He was just paying someone to chop the tree down, and cut it into blocks, and deliver it to his business.

where is all this free wood? Where can you cut down a tree without paying the owner of the tree? If its on your property, did you pay for the property?

I know a bunch of guys that take fallen trees out of nearby forest. They tow it out and make lumber with it..FREE These guys forever on the lookout for down trees especially Yew trees. Nice Wood ~ and yew bark is easily sold for high $$.
These guys are environmentalists and Fire & Rescue.
Cannot cut down a tree but can take a fallen tree. The removal helps get rid of dry timber that easily burns during fire season.
I've seen some Beautiful furniture, stairs and mantle pieces made with FREE dead timber.

OK, great. you can pick up a dead tree in some places and use it free. 99% of the wood used in building things is bought and paid for before it is used.

Air and water, however, are free. We pay someone to transport water to us and for someone to compress the air for us. But the air and water are free.

It amazes me how some people can make a very simple concept very complicated

 

[BluesMistress]

where is all this free wood? Where can you cut down a tree without paying the owner of the tree? If its on your property, did you pay for the property?

I know a bunch of guys that take fallen trees out of nearby forest. They tow it out and make lumber with it..FREE These guys forever on the lookout for down trees especially Yew trees. Nice Wood ~ and yew bark is easily sold for high $$.
These guys are environmentalists and Fire & Rescue.
Cannot cut down a tree but can take a fallen tree. The removal helps get rid of dry timber that easily burns during fire season.
I've seen some Beautiful furniture, stairs and mantle pieces made with FREE dead timber.

OK, great. you can pick up a dead tree in some places and use it free. 99% of the wood used in building things is bought and paid for before it is used.

Air and water, however, are free. We pay someone to transport water to us and for someone to compress the air for us. But the air and water are free.

It amazes me how some people can make a very simple concept very complicated

I already posted in here my thoughts about water as a Right..It's pretty much same idea. You don't want to pay for water then head for the hills with a bucket. Don't want to pay for furniture...Go out and find some fallen trees & make your own. It's a hell of a lot of work but it Can be done. It all about choice...Want to live in a civilized manner with water on demand out of a faucet pay the bill...Want nice furniture?? Much easier to buy it..Or you can go out and find fallen trees. It's not impossible but it's a Lot of hard work. These guy enjoy it..Me I like having my furniture delivered. Just as I do my water also..
So I pay the bill...It totally sucks when the water, gas & electricity are turned off. I've had all 3 done to me on various occasions. Never once did I ever expect anyone to pay the bill for me or think to myself I have a Right to receive these services Free. I worked overtime for the money needed to have services turned back on.
Gas, Grass or Ass ~ Nobody Rides for Free You asked a question I simply answered.

 

[Andylusion]

well no the Basin is loosing water for one reason. Use and nothing more. Its causing more harm than good, and will affect the eco system even more. something free markets dont fix.

again your solution to all this is just say " free market" and walk away.

And the alternative is people die of thirst?

People need water. They need to use water, in order to survive, and be productive in society.

My goal, in the capitalist system, is to provide people water. That is being accomplished.

The "free-market" is not to solve the problem of people using water.... people being able to use water is in fact the very goal.

Now, if we just kill off all the people, water usage would drops, and that would solve the Basin drainage.

If you want to go that route, just socialize the water system, and like any other socialized water system, shortages, and reduction of usage will follow.

Yeah, people will be dying of thirst, but that will most certainly fix the problem that is apparently more important to you.

But let me back up a minute.... so the absolute only reason the Colorado Basin is low, is because of use?

Funny.... the NOAA disagrees with you.

Huh... a significant drop in rainfall compared to the average. In other words, I just proved you were full of crap.

maybe it is because of OVERUSE, and not planning for the non-rainy day, the droughts that always come in cycles?

What if we just killed ourselves, and then we never have to worry about overuse again?

When you say 'overuse', that's relative. If there had been exceptionally high rainfall, and the lakes were overfilled, and flooding everywhere.... well then it was under used, right? We should use more water to prevent the flooding!

Every single source of water on the planet, when you use it, and there's a drought in the area, every single one would then magically be 'overused'.

What would you suggest? Deny water to people? One five year period of high precipitation, will completely remedy this.

In the mean time, just allow the price of water to float on at market rates, and as the price goes up, new supplies will be found, and conservation will happen automatically.

And I'm not against this idea that we should store up water in dams. But you also have to realize that there is no amount of 'water conservation' that is going to prevent a drought from choking out the water.

Even if we had all the conservation in the world, um... hello... water.... evaporates. If we used ZERO of the water in Lake Mead, it would still evaporate.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is "Water" a Human Right?

Is life?

Good question, especially here in America where we are promised "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Interestingly enough, there is a thing called the rule of 3's.

You can survive for 3 min. without air.

You can survive for 3 days without water.

You can survive for 3 weeks without food.

Is water a human right? It should be, and it should be clean water that is a human right.

There are ways of making water that can be utilized in any part of the globe. I think that we should help countries that don't have water (like Somalia) to get some via evaporation cubes.

I think that everyone deserves a drink of water, and I also believe that everyone deserves to be clean at least 3 times a week.

 

[Andylusion]

I read the other day if you want to make a penny off of the scarcity of water, to invest in agriculture....this is what people truly need the water for....for food, so water shortages mean food shortages and the investment firm was suggesting buying in to that as a means of making some money off of it....

when this kind of financial advice is being promoted by reputable investment firms....you KNOW the scarcity of water is NOT just a conspiracy or made up.

We're not arguing about scarcity. In fact, every resource has a level of scarcity, or it would not have any value. If there was any resource that was completely unlimited, no one would ever pay for it.

Our point is merely this, the best solution to the scarcity of any resource, is to allow the free-market system to function.

Ironically, your own post supports our position.

You say that there are people who want to cash in on water scarcity. How do they do that? They invest in to water. Investment, by its nature, results in increased supply. Why would you invest to produce less, and end up losing your money?

 

[Andylusion]

Is "Water" a Human Right?

Is life?

Good question, especially here in America where we are promised "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Interestingly enough, there is a thing called the rule of 3's.

You can survive for 3 min. without air.

You can survive for 3 days without water.

You can survive for 3 weeks without food.

Is water a human right? It should be, and it should be clean water that is a human right.

There are ways of making water that can be utilized in any part of the globe. I think that we should help countries that don't have water (like Somalia) to get some via evaporation cubes.

I think that everyone deserves a drink of water, and I also believe that everyone deserves to be clean at least 3 times a week.

Have you ever had a leech for a friend? Or an alcoholic extended family member?

Do you just keep working to give those people free stuff?

Who exactly is going to pay for all that water to give out to people who don't pay for it?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is "Water" a Human Right?

Is life?

Good question, especially here in America where we are promised "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Interestingly enough, there is a thing called the rule of 3's.

You can survive for 3 min. without air.

You can survive for 3 days without water.

You can survive for 3 weeks without food.

Is water a human right? It should be, and it should be clean water that is a human right.

There are ways of making water that can be utilized in any part of the globe. I think that we should help countries that don't have water (like Somalia) to get some via evaporation cubes.

I think that everyone deserves a drink of water, and I also believe that everyone deserves to be clean at least 3 times a week.

Have you ever had a leech for a friend? Or an alcoholic extended family member?

Do you just keep working to give those people free stuff?

Who exactly is going to pay for all that water to give out to people who don't pay for it?

Good question.........................how are you going to pay for those who don't have water?

Ever heard of disease?

Ever heard of what happens to those who don't have water?

I personally think that having water could stop a lot of stuff. I also think that water could solve a lot of problems.

 

[Andylusion]

Good question, especially here in America where we are promised "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Interestingly enough, there is a thing called the rule of 3's.

You can survive for 3 min. without air.

You can survive for 3 days without water.

You can survive for 3 weeks without food.

Is water a human right? It should be, and it should be clean water that is a human right.

There are ways of making water that can be utilized in any part of the globe. I think that we should help countries that don't have water (like Somalia) to get some via evaporation cubes.

I think that everyone deserves a drink of water, and I also believe that everyone deserves to be clean at least 3 times a week.

Have you ever had a leech for a friend? Or an alcoholic extended family member?

Do you just keep working to give those people free stuff?

Who exactly is going to pay for all that water to give out to people who don't pay for it?

Good question.........................how are you going to pay for those who don't have water?

Ever heard of disease?

Ever heard of what happens to those who don't have water?

I personally think that having water could stop a lot of stuff. I also think that water could solve a lot of problems.

I have no intention of paying for people who don't have water. They should get a job, like I do, and get up at 3 AM every morning, like I do, and work a full 40, like I do.

There's nothing special about me, but I put in an honest work week for my pay, and out of that pay, I buy water, food, clothing and shelter. If I can do that, then any able bodied person can do that, and I think they should.

 

[Immanuel]

Well, you have the right to be wrong. Have a nice day.

That is a very lame post. Should I expect these from you regularly?

You didn't make a point. You didn't have anything new to add to the conversation. There are numerous examples where people voting, and complaining, were able to clean up corruption. You, and I, both cited examples of such.

Yet you still held onto a belief that wasn't supported by the evidence.

I'm not going to bicker with someone, when they haven't made a compelling argument, but just repeat themselves over and over.

You have the right to be wrong, and you may continued to be so. Unless you have something more to add, to me I've made the point, provided evidence. There is nothing more to talk about. This conversation is over.

Not supported by the evidence? You are absolutely insane. Name one honest politician. Just one. Not just in the U.S. but in the entire frigging world. You can't.

You have made no point at all. Basically, you claim that the world is hunky dorey, but maybe you simply haven't watched the news lately. The Middle East is a mess. Ukraine is exploding. Mexicans are invading the U.S. Detroit and San Jose are two America cities that are collapsing financially but there are others such as New York, Washington and Philadelphia that are cesspools. This world is falling apart because of world-wide corruption, yet you make the asinine claim that everything will be fine.

You made the claim that thinking voters can beat the corruption. Yet, we have corrupt politicians like Charles Rangel, Chris Christie, Rick Scott (in case you haven't heard he is now being investigated for taking bribes from the Sugar Industry), Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid who are elected time after time after time despite the fact that their constituents know for a fact that they are corrupt.

Corruption will not and cannot be defeated. The money and power behind the lobbying industry is simply too great. Even if a corrupt politician is defeated and an honest man is elected to follow him, it is not long before the temptation thrown his way is over-whelming.

As I stated, until we get the money out of politics this country will behave like a runaway train bound for its own destruction.

Yes, one thing you said is correct. You have the right to be wrong.

 

[Andylusion]

That is a very lame post. Should I expect these from you regularly?

You didn't make a point. You didn't have anything new to add to the conversation. There are numerous examples where people voting, and complaining, were able to clean up corruption. You, and I, both cited examples of such.

Yet you still held onto a belief that wasn't supported by the evidence.

I'm not going to bicker with someone, when they haven't made a compelling argument, but just repeat themselves over and over.

You have the right to be wrong, and you may continued to be so. Unless you have something more to add, to me I've made the point, provided evidence. There is nothing more to talk about. This conversation is over.

Not supported by the evidence? You are absolutely insane. Name one honest politician. Just one. Not just in the U.S. but in the entire frigging world. You can't.

You have made no point at all. Basically, you claim that the world is hunky dorey, but maybe you simply haven't watched the news lately. The Middle East is a mess. Ukraine is exploding. Mexicans are invading the U.S. Detroit and San Jose are two America cities that are collapsing financially but there are others such as New York, Washington and Philadelphia that are cesspools. This world is falling apart because of world-wide corruption, yet you make the asinine claim that everything will be fine.

You made the claim that thinking voters can beat the corruption. Yet, we have corrupt politicians like Charles Rangel, Chris Christie, Rick Scott (in case you haven't heard he is now being investigated for taking bribes from the Sugar Industry), Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid who are elected time after time after time despite the fact that their constituents know for a fact that they are corrupt.

Corruption will not and cannot be defeated. The money and power behind the lobbying industry is simply too great. Even if a corrupt politician is defeated and an honest man is elected to follow him, it is not long before the temptation thrown his way is over-whelming.

As I stated, until we get the money out of politics this country will behave like a runaway train bound for its own destruction.

Yes, one thing you said is correct. You have the right to be wrong.

I can name several honest politicians. And no, temptation does not over throw every single politician, especially if the one elected is only elected based on the corruption of the prior.

You will never get the money out of politics, without getting rid of corrupt politicians. You are trying to kill the elephant, by cutting off it's tail. You can't. Money is a symptom, not a cause.

And you keep making my point every single post.

"are elected time after time after time despite the fact that their constituents know for a fact that they are corrupt."

If their constituents know for a fact they are corrupt, that doesn't disprove that if the voters wanted the corruption cleaned up it would happen. In fact, it proves that it's exactly because the voters want corruption, that it is continuing to happen.

You made my point.

If the voters wanted it to end, it would end. They don't.

Again, it's the voters who are allowing it to happen, which has been my point the entire time. No amount of laws on money are going to stop corruption.

Were you not around back in the 90s? Direct, clear cut, documented proof that existed campaign finance laws were broken by Clinton, and Gore, and many others. Nothing happened. Why? The public didn't care. What do you think an additional 20 new money laws are going to do, when they blatantly violate existing laws, and nothing happened?

"Basically, you claim that the world is hunky dorey"

You basically said, "I'm a brainless idiotic fool who has no value on this forum, and if banned wouldn't be missed".

Grow up idiot. Can I just make up crap you didn't say and claim you said it? Is that the level of 5-year-old debate you want to engage in? Then get off this forum you pathetic child. This is a forum for adults.

 

[Redfish]

Good question, especially here in America where we are promised "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Interestingly enough, there is a thing called the rule of 3's.

You can survive for 3 min. without air.

You can survive for 3 days without water.

You can survive for 3 weeks without food.

Is water a human right? It should be, and it should be clean water that is a human right.

There are ways of making water that can be utilized in any part of the globe. I think that we should help countries that don't have water (like Somalia) to get some via evaporation cubes.

I think that everyone deserves a drink of water, and I also believe that everyone deserves to be clean at least 3 times a week.

Have you ever had a leech for a friend? Or an alcoholic extended family member?

Do you just keep working to give those people free stuff?

Who exactly is going to pay for all that water to give out to people who don't pay for it?

Good question.........................how are you going to pay for those who don't have water?

Ever heard of disease?

Ever heard of what happens to those who don't have water?

I personally think that having water could stop a lot of stuff. I also think that water could solve a lot of problems.

the same can be said about food, shelter, medicine, and clothing. where does charity end and personal responsibility begin?

The USA cannot afford to take care of everyone in the world. If you want to send your hard earned money to somewhere else in the world, go right ahead. But don't pass a government mandate that requires that everyone do it.

 

[TooTall]

Article 5, Declaration of Human Rights

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


Needing water to live and having water kept from you would be considered torture,cruel and inhuman punishment would it not?

I suggest that water piped to a home for bathing, doing laundry and flushing the toilet should be paid for by the occupants of the home. I they don't pay, cut it off.
The city or county can set up distribution points to hand out drinking water if the person can prove they don't have any way to pay the water bill.
Of course those that work for a living and do pay their water bill will be glad to see their local taxes go up, maybe not.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You people do realize that by shutting off the water, those who occupy places where water is shut off have a higher tendency towards spreading disease?

I mean..................fresh water is what keeps a community clean. Do we really want to see an explosion of disease just because we decided to keep fresh water away from those who can't pay?

If so..................shut down the corporations that don't pay their bills first.

But.............if you want disease and other nasty things, shut down the water of the people first, and let the corporations continue to screw up the town.

 

[MaxGrit]

You people do realize that by shutting off the water, those who occupy places where water is shut off have a higher tendency towards spreading disease?

I mean..................fresh water is what keeps a community clean. Do we really want to see an explosion of disease just because we decided to keep fresh water away from those who can't pay?

If so..................shut down the corporations that don't pay their bills first.

But.............if you want disease and other nasty things, shut down the water of the people first, and let the corporations continue to screw up the town.

Why can't they pay for the water?