Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Nova78]

Is Olde English 40oz'ers a human right ? No one in Detroit drinks water .

 

[Redfish]

Capitalism doesn't "turn something into a commodity". Everything *IS* a commodity.

"well I don't want it to be a commodity"..... doesn't matter what you want. Everything that exists, is a commodity, whether you are a capitalist, or a socialist. It's all still a commodity.

Air is a commodity to. You haven't seen cans of compressed air before?

Everything... as in EVERYTHING... meaning EVERY SINGLE THING ON THE PLANET.... is a commodity.

What do you think they are selling in that tank?

Now the difference between you and me, is that I think this is a good thing. I like those products. I wouldn't be able to do some of the things I do, without those products.

just to be clear, you are not paying for the air in the tank. you are paying the guy who compressed it and put it into the tank and you are paying for the tank. The air is free.

Same applies to water, we pay to have it pumped and piped to our homes, we are buying a service to deliver water, not the water itself.

That's kind of like saying, the wood is free, I'm just paying to have it chopped, cut, sanded, stained, and screwed together as a couch.

I grasp the concept you are trying to push, but from a practical perspective, I don't think there's a difference.

the difference is that the guy building your couch had to buy the wood from someone else before he could build the couch. The guy putting the air in the tank did not have to buy the air.

 

[Immanuel]

like most liberals, you totally missed the point. The point----------------you are not paying for the water, you are paying to have it delivered to your house by pipelines.

If you cannot pay for city water delivery, then your option is to go get it and carry it home yourself.

Those pipelines have not been fixed or repaired in decades, if not a century.... The city of Detroit's water pipes are leaking everywhere and they lose 35,000,000,000 gallons a year, 35 BILLION gallons a year is just running in to the ground, from these rotted pipes...

IT'S a HUGE problem, and this is why Detroit customers have to pay nearly DOUBLE the price for water than the average in the Nation....

So, it would be NICE to THINK that the money people in Detroit are paying is for the maintenance of the water lines etc with their bill....but apparently it's not....who knows where the money is going and who it is going to....?

it's just total MISMANAGEMENT of the City, all around...imo.

And your point is??????????? Detroit has been run by democrats, liberals, unions, and minorities for years. The results are obvious.

But it is the Republicans fault! You know that right?

 

[Redfish]

Those pipelines have not been fixed or repaired in decades, if not a century.... The city of Detroit's water pipes are leaking everywhere and they lose 35,000,000,000 gallons a year, 35 BILLION gallons a year is just running in to the ground, from these rotted pipes...

IT'S a HUGE problem, and this is why Detroit customers have to pay nearly DOUBLE the price for water than the average in the Nation....

So, it would be NICE to THINK that the money people in Detroit are paying is for the maintenance of the water lines etc with their bill....but apparently it's not....who knows where the money is going and who it is going to....?

it's just total MISMANAGEMENT of the City, all around...imo.

And your point is??????????? Detroit has been run by democrats, liberals, unions, and minorities for years. The results are obvious.

But it is the Republicans fault! You know that right?

Yep, in the minds of the mentally diseased i.e. liberals and dems.

 

[Immanuel]

? really ? They are the one's making the decisions are they not ? Detroit's government certainly wasn't installed there by a coup .

Yes ....really!

People elect their governments in good faith. Believing they will do the best job for them.

Plus many of these people are the citizens in America, who do not vote....which is 50% of our citizens....

AND, you don't know the counter part of who got in office, would have been better or WORSE....

so yes, it's a cop out.

The people generally get what they ask for. They wanted a pro-union, pro-welfare, pro-crime government, and they got it.

Now they are reaping the results of what they voted for.

If the public had wanted to clean up the corruption in Detroit, it could have been done a long time ago. Instead, they voted and promoted the most scummy people, because... yes they might have been scummy, but they promised us food stamps, public housing, and welfare checks. They promised us pro-Union legislation to drive up wages. They promised us to hold the police in check, to prevent them from knocking my darling baby drug dealers head.

Yes, the government is screwing the people over with bad policies.

But who asked for those policies? The public. The public got what they asked for, and now they are upset about it.

You should read Detroit, by Charlie LeDuff. He goes through his fight to clean up city politicians in Detroit, and the corruption, and the waste. No matter what he investigated, and published, it didn't matter, because the citizens wanted these criminal in power.

The public voted for their own suffering, and they got it. That's all there is to it.

I agree with everything you said except for this, "it could have been done a long time ago", because it does not matter which party or even who wins the elections, the corruption will sink in to whomever holds office. Until we find a way to get the lobbyists out of politics (if there is a way) America; the federal government, the state government and the local government, will continue to run as a runaway train hell-bent on self destruction.

If we fail to get lobbyist out, we're as doomed as the Soviet Union was in the 70's.

 

[Taz]

Why don't all the fucking losers still in Detroit just go down to the lake and get buckets of water like their cousins in Africa do? They too evolved now for that?

 

[Andylusion]

just to be clear, you are not paying for the air in the tank. you are paying the guy who compressed it and put it into the tank and you are paying for the tank. The air is free.

Same applies to water, we pay to have it pumped and piped to our homes, we are buying a service to deliver water, not the water itself.

That's kind of like saying, the wood is free, I'm just paying to have it chopped, cut, sanded, stained, and screwed together as a couch.

I grasp the concept you are trying to push, but from a practical perspective, I don't think there's a difference.

the difference is that the guy building your couch had to buy the wood from someone else before he could build the couch. The guy putting the air in the tank did not have to buy the air.

The wood was free. He was just paying someone to chop the tree down, and cut it into blocks, and deliver it to his business.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes ....really!

People elect their governments in good faith. Believing they will do the best job for them.

Plus many of these people are the citizens in America, who do not vote....which is 50% of our citizens....

AND, you don't know the counter part of who got in office, would have been better or WORSE....

so yes, it's a cop out.

The people generally get what they ask for. They wanted a pro-union, pro-welfare, pro-crime government, and they got it.

Now they are reaping the results of what they voted for.

If the public had wanted to clean up the corruption in Detroit, it could have been done a long time ago. Instead, they voted and promoted the most scummy people, because... yes they might have been scummy, but they promised us food stamps, public housing, and welfare checks. They promised us pro-Union legislation to drive up wages. They promised us to hold the police in check, to prevent them from knocking my darling baby drug dealers head.

Yes, the government is screwing the people over with bad policies.

But who asked for those policies? The public. The public got what they asked for, and now they are upset about it.

You should read Detroit, by Charlie LeDuff. He goes through his fight to clean up city politicians in Detroit, and the corruption, and the waste. No matter what he investigated, and published, it didn't matter, because the citizens wanted these criminal in power.

The public voted for their own suffering, and they got it. That's all there is to it.

I agree with everything you said except for this, "it could have been done a long time ago", because it does not matter which party or even who wins the elections, the corruption will sink in to whomever holds office. Until we find a way to get the lobbyists out of politics (if there is a way) America; the federal government, the state government and the local government, will continue to run as a runaway train hell-bent on self destruction.

If we fail to get lobbyist out, we're as doomed as the Soviet Union was in the 70's.

No I disagree with that completely. By the logic, then every city in the whole country, and every government on the whole Earth, would all be like Detroit, and that isn't the case.

Now, it's true there is no government of any type with ZERO corruption.. Yeah I get that.

But not every city counsel is like Detroits. Not every government is entirely corrupt.

The difference is merely the level of corruption the public is willing to accept. The people of Detroit could have absolutely picked high quality, moral, upstanding people, and I promise you, it would have turned Detroit around.

But they didn't. And they got, what they voted for.

 

[Redfish]

That's kind of like saying, the wood is free, I'm just paying to have it chopped, cut, sanded, stained, and screwed together as a couch.

I grasp the concept you are trying to push, but from a practical perspective, I don't think there's a difference.

the difference is that the guy building your couch had to buy the wood from someone else before he could build the couch. The guy putting the air in the tank did not have to buy the air.

The wood was free. He was just paying someone to chop the tree down, and cut it into blocks, and deliver it to his business.

where is all this free wood? Where can you cut down a tree without paying the owner of the tree? If its on your property, did you pay for the property?

 

[Redfish]

Why don't all the fucking losers still in Detroit just go down to the lake and get buckets of water like their cousins in Africa do? They too evolved now for that?

that would require effort, its easier to just sit by the faucet and whine.

 

[Immanuel]

The people generally get what they ask for. They wanted a pro-union, pro-welfare, pro-crime government, and they got it.

Now they are reaping the results of what they voted for.

If the public had wanted to clean up the corruption in Detroit, it could have been done a long time ago. Instead, they voted and promoted the most scummy people, because... yes they might have been scummy, but they promised us food stamps, public housing, and welfare checks. They promised us pro-Union legislation to drive up wages. They promised us to hold the police in check, to prevent them from knocking my darling baby drug dealers head.

Yes, the government is screwing the people over with bad policies.

But who asked for those policies? The public. The public got what they asked for, and now they are upset about it.

You should read Detroit, by Charlie LeDuff. He goes through his fight to clean up city politicians in Detroit, and the corruption, and the waste. No matter what he investigated, and published, it didn't matter, because the citizens wanted these criminal in power.

The public voted for their own suffering, and they got it. That's all there is to it.

I agree with everything you said except for this, "it could have been done a long time ago", because it does not matter which party or even who wins the elections, the corruption will sink in to whomever holds office. Until we find a way to get the lobbyists out of politics (if there is a way) America; the federal government, the state government and the local government, will continue to run as a runaway train hell-bent on self destruction.

If we fail to get lobbyist out, we're as doomed as the Soviet Union was in the 70's.

No I disagree with that completely. By the logic, then every city in the whole country, and every government on the whole Earth, would all be like Detroit, and that isn't the case.

Now, it's true there is no government of any type with ZERO corruption.. Yeah I get that.

But not every city counsel is like Detroits. Not every government is entirely corrupt.

The difference is merely the level of corruption the public is willing to accept. The people of Detroit could have absolutely picked high quality, moral, upstanding people, and I promise you, it would have turned Detroit around.

But they didn't. And they got, what they voted for.

I've still got to disagree with you.

The difference between Detroit and the city that I live closest to, Tampa, is only in how far things had fallen so far. Tampa may not have fallen as far as Detroit yet, but there is not a damned thing to stop it. It really doesn't matter if we elect Democrats or Republicans because in the long run they are going to succumb to the corruption.

Obviously, you are more optimistic regarding government than I am. For me... I think we are... well, to put it bluntly, screwed.

 

[Andylusion]

I agree with everything you said except for this, "it could have been done a long time ago", because it does not matter which party or even who wins the elections, the corruption will sink in to whomever holds office. Until we find a way to get the lobbyists out of politics (if there is a way) America; the federal government, the state government and the local government, will continue to run as a runaway train hell-bent on self destruction.

If we fail to get lobbyist out, we're as doomed as the Soviet Union was in the 70's.

No I disagree with that completely. By the logic, then every city in the whole country, and every government on the whole Earth, would all be like Detroit, and that isn't the case.

Now, it's true there is no government of any type with ZERO corruption.. Yeah I get that.

But not every city counsel is like Detroits. Not every government is entirely corrupt.

The difference is merely the level of corruption the public is willing to accept. The people of Detroit could have absolutely picked high quality, moral, upstanding people, and I promise you, it would have turned Detroit around.

But they didn't. And they got, what they voted for.

I've still got to disagree with you.

The difference between Detroit and the city that I live closest to, Tampa, is only in how far things had fallen so far. Tampa may not have fallen as far as Detroit yet, but there is not a damned thing to stop it. It really doesn't matter if we elect Democrats or Republicans because in the long run they are going to succumb to the corruption.

Obviously, you are more optimistic regarding government than I am. For me... I think we are... well, to put it bluntly, screwed.

That's the point... it hasn't fallen as far, because the people of that city won't let it.

There was some corrupt here in Columbus, and the people got ticked off, and it stopped. Is there other corruption? Yes, but not as much.

You keep referring to Democrats and Republicans. Do you see me referring to Democrats and Republicans? Have you seen me refer to either at any point? No.

Why? Because this is not a partisan issue. You could have a 100% democrat city, voting only democrats, and if they demanded less corruption, they would get it. This isn't a party deal.

 

[Immanuel]

No I disagree with that completely. By the logic, then every city in the whole country, and every government on the whole Earth, would all be like Detroit, and that isn't the case.

Now, it's true there is no government of any type with ZERO corruption.. Yeah I get that.

But not every city counsel is like Detroits. Not every government is entirely corrupt.

The difference is merely the level of corruption the public is willing to accept. The people of Detroit could have absolutely picked high quality, moral, upstanding people, and I promise you, it would have turned Detroit around.

But they didn't. And they got, what they voted for.

I've still got to disagree with you.

The difference between Detroit and the city that I live closest to, Tampa, is only in how far things had fallen so far. Tampa may not have fallen as far as Detroit yet, but there is not a damned thing to stop it. It really doesn't matter if we elect Democrats or Republicans because in the long run they are going to succumb to the corruption.

Obviously, you are more optimistic regarding government than I am. For me... I think we are... well, to put it bluntly, screwed.

That's the point... it hasn't fallen as far, because the people of that city won't let it.

There was some corrupt here in Columbus, and the people got ticked off, and it stopped. Is there other corruption? Yes, but not as much.

You keep referring to Democrats and Republicans. Do you see me referring to Democrats and Republicans? Have you seen me refer to either at any point? No.

Why? Because this is not a partisan issue. You could have a 100% democrat city, voting only democrats, and if they demanded less corruption, they would get it. This isn't a party deal.

That is my point, it isn't a party deal. People are corrupt. Politicians are people. Therefore, politicians are corrupt. It doesn't matter what party they are from, they are corrupt and it is the corruption that is tearing this country apart.

They won't get "less corruption" because even the most honest human being can be bought. You just need to know what to offer or how much.

What I am saying is that you cannot vote corruption out. You might be able to get it to take a step back, but you are not going to win the game and eventually, that is what is going to destroy us.

 

[Taz]

Guns are protected by the constitution, water isn't. Go drink a gun.

 

[Andylusion]

I've still got to disagree with you.

The difference between Detroit and the city that I live closest to, Tampa, is only in how far things had fallen so far. Tampa may not have fallen as far as Detroit yet, but there is not a damned thing to stop it. It really doesn't matter if we elect Democrats or Republicans because in the long run they are going to succumb to the corruption.

Obviously, you are more optimistic regarding government than I am. For me... I think we are... well, to put it bluntly, screwed.

That's the point... it hasn't fallen as far, because the people of that city won't let it.

There was some corrupt here in Columbus, and the people got ticked off, and it stopped. Is there other corruption? Yes, but not as much.

You keep referring to Democrats and Republicans. Do you see me referring to Democrats and Republicans? Have you seen me refer to either at any point? No.

Why? Because this is not a partisan issue. You could have a 100% democrat city, voting only democrats, and if they demanded less corruption, they would get it. This isn't a party deal.

That is my point, it isn't a party deal. People are corrupt. Politicians are people. Therefore, politicians are corrupt. It doesn't matter what party they are from, they are corrupt and it is the corruption that is tearing this country apart.

They won't get "less corruption" because even the most honest human being can be bought. You just need to know what to offer or how much.

What I am saying is that you cannot vote corruption out. You might be able to get it to take a step back, but you are not going to win the game and eventually, that is what is going to destroy us.

Well, you have the right to be wrong. Have a nice day.

 

[BluesMistress]

the difference is that the guy building your couch had to buy the wood from someone else before he could build the couch. The guy putting the air in the tank did not have to buy the air.

The wood was free. He was just paying someone to chop the tree down, and cut it into blocks, and deliver it to his business.

where is all this free wood? Where can you cut down a tree without paying the owner of the tree? If its on your property, did you pay for the property?

I know a bunch of guys that take fallen trees out of nearby forest. They tow it out and make lumber with it..FREE These guys forever on the lookout for down trees especially Yew trees. Nice Wood ~ and yew bark is easily sold for high $$.
These guys are environmentalists and Fire & Rescue.
Cannot cut down a tree but can take a fallen tree. The removal helps get rid of dry timber that easily burns during fire season.
I've seen some Beautiful furniture, stairs and mantle pieces made with FREE dead timber.

 

[Immanuel]

That's the point... it hasn't fallen as far, because the people of that city won't let it.

There was some corrupt here in Columbus, and the people got ticked off, and it stopped. Is there other corruption? Yes, but not as much.

You keep referring to Democrats and Republicans. Do you see me referring to Democrats and Republicans? Have you seen me refer to either at any point? No.

Why? Because this is not a partisan issue. You could have a 100% democrat city, voting only democrats, and if they demanded less corruption, they would get it. This isn't a party deal.

That is my point, it isn't a party deal. People are corrupt. Politicians are people. Therefore, politicians are corrupt. It doesn't matter what party they are from, they are corrupt and it is the corruption that is tearing this country apart.

They won't get "less corruption" because even the most honest human being can be bought. You just need to know what to offer or how much.

What I am saying is that you cannot vote corruption out. You might be able to get it to take a step back, but you are not going to win the game and eventually, that is what is going to destroy us.

Well, you have the right to be wrong. Have a nice day.

That is a very lame post. Should I expect these from you regularly?

 

[Plasmaball]

If anything, your link validates my position. Try again.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/satellites-show-major-southwest-groundwater-105431089.html

Nah it doesnt...free market doesn't solve water doing this. Nor does the other link

Actually, yeah it does. I don't understand you people who look at something that clearly shows those areas with a free-market system supplying water, clearly have water. Those areas with a socialized, or restricted system, clearly don't have water.

Even that link, doesn't prove anything, except that the free-market system is still supplying water to those areas that have a massive drought.

Yes, the Colorado River basin is losing water for a variety of reasons. Tell me, are people dying of thirst yet? Do you see water being shut off throughout the Colorado River basin? Nope? Why? Because the market is working. Is the cost of water rising? Yes. Supply goes down, demand goes up or stays the same, price goes up.

The market is working. As the price goes up, it becomes economical to import water in from farther away, or to produce water from more expensive sources.

Thus, the people there still have water, even though the primary source of water has declined.

Again, you proved my position with now two links. Please continue.

well no the Basin is loosing water for one reason. Use and nothing more. Its causing more harm than good, and will affect the eco system even more. something free markets dont fix.

again your solution to all this is just say " free market" and walk away.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/satellites-show-major-southwest-groundwater-105431089.html

Nah it doesnt...free market doesn't solve water doing this. Nor does the other link

Actually, yeah it does. I don't understand you people who look at something that clearly shows those areas with a free-market system supplying water, clearly have water. Those areas with a socialized, or restricted system, clearly don't have water.

Even that link, doesn't prove anything, except that the free-market system is still supplying water to those areas that have a massive drought.

Yes, the Colorado River basin is losing water for a variety of reasons. Tell me, are people dying of thirst yet? Do you see water being shut off throughout the Colorado River basin? Nope? Why? Because the market is working. Is the cost of water rising? Yes. Supply goes down, demand goes up or stays the same, price goes up.

The market is working. As the price goes up, it becomes economical to import water in from farther away, or to produce water from more expensive sources.

Thus, the people there still have water, even though the primary source of water has declined.

Again, you proved my position with now two links. Please continue.

well no the Basin is loosing water for one reason. Use and nothing more. Its causing more harm than good, and will affect the eco system even more. something free markets dont fix.

again your solution to all this is just say " free market" and walk away.

The free market, even a government monopoly market has to have one thing available to survive. They must have a product to sell at profit. Without that product and the ability to sell at a profit means you the buyer will get nothing. You can make water a right but you can't force people t provide that right for free. When any right you demand is reliant upon people that want money for working to provide that right are supposed to do so for free you don't get much of that product.

The fact is you can't provide free water to people. It costs some money to provide that water. Usually union workers you have promised lavish pension's and healthcare benefit's to that you now expect them to work for free since the customers don't want to pay.

How do you pay excessive payroll and benefit packages to union workers when the people you are counting on to pay those costs decide they don't need to pay?

 

[MaryL]

IT IS a basic necessity, whatever else. Freedom of speech or to own a firearm, that is a right. You can do with out either, Not water. But is it a right? Silly question. I live in a semi arid state (Colorado) I pay my water bill every month, it's a utility. A basic human right? I wish. Water is provided TO us, we didn't just earn it by being American, people had to work hard to build facilities and the infrastructure to get it to your tap, so, unlike constitutional rights, that water just didn't just magically appear out of nothing. Our constitution doesn't imply you have a right to water. Somewhere in there, if you squint and read between the lines, maybe.