Islamic militants suspected in Moscow bombings

[Mr.Fitnah]

Rare post.

As in not well done.

I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.

Thanks.

 

[Kalam]

the overwhelming majority of Islamic doctrine pertains to military jihad and early scholars are in agreement on this matter. Indeed, most of the content of the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sira pertaining to jihad is violent and militaristic. For instance, 90% of Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith jihad discussion is militaristic.

Sheikh Maududi goes on further on the religious obligation of achieving Islamic objectives through aggressive, revolution and jihad...

Islam is not the name of a ‘Religion’, nor is ‘Muslim’ the title of a ‘Nation’. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. ‘Muslim’ is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And ‘Jihād’ refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective.

The message of Islam is spread and its livelihood is preserved through whatever type of jihad is necessary. If a society is relatively "free" and doesn't place oppressive restrictions on religious liberty, scholarly defense and propagation of Islam is most appropriate. If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.

 

[Kalam]

As in not well done.

I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.

Thanks.

Any time.

 

[Kalam]

Update:

Teenage widow behind Moscow blast

The 17-year-old widow of a North Caucasus fighter has been confirmed by Russian security officials as one of the suicide bombers who attacked the Moscow metro system on Monday.

The blasts at quick succession at two stations during morning rush hour killed 39 people and injured more than 70.

"One of the female suicide bombers, who blew herself up at the Park Kultury metro station, was Dzhanet Abdullayeva," news agencies quoted an official with the National anti-terror committee as saying.

The committee comprises chiefs of top ministries and state bodies.

"She was born in 1992 and lived in the Khasavyurtsky region of Dagestan," the official said.

Full Article

Her identity has neither been confirmed nor denied by the Caucasus Emirate as far as I know.

 

[Marc39]

the overwhelming majority of Islamic doctrine pertains to military jihad and early scholars are in agreement on this matter. Indeed, most of the content of the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sira pertaining to jihad is violent and militaristic. For instance, 90% of Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith jihad discussion is militaristic.

Sheikh Maududi goes on further on the religious obligation of achieving Islamic objectives through aggressive, revolution and jihad...

Islam is not the name of a ‘Religion’, nor is ‘Muslim’ the title of a ‘Nation’. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. ‘Muslim’ is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And ‘Jihād’ refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective.

The message of Islam is spread and its livelihood is preserved through whatever type of jihad is necessary. If a society is relatively "free" and doesn't place oppressive restrictions on religious liberty, scholarly defense and propagation of Islam is most appropriate. If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.

The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others. That is fascism. Keep your religion to yourself, especially one that subjugates women and calls for the mass murder of non-Muslims. A religion founded by a pedophile married to a 6 year-old who used his cult to bed women, hijack caravans and take 20% of the "booty", extort jizya payments from others, steal land and murder his adversaries, including female poets who dared criticize him. This is Islam's Perfect Man.

Qur'an 8:12...

I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.

 

[Charles Stucker]

If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.

Except for the problem that Muslims refuse to live under the conditions they inflict on other religions. Apparently there is a double standard.
When Muslims restrict freedoms of other types of worship that is a just move toward the Islamic society they want.
When other beliefs restrict freedom on Muslims, the call goes out for Jihad! Even when the restriction is something as innocuous as not letting them build minarets.
Switzerland, Bueller, anybody, Bueller

 

[Kalam]

In press release on March 29th, the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe said the following:

The architects of Russia’s North Caucasus policy don’t ride the metro, especially not at eight in the morning. These attacks targeted innocent working class people on their way to jobs and schools. If you improve security on these trains, the killers will simply find a softer target. While this attack hit Moscow, it serves as a cry for help to end the violence and poverty in Chechnya and neighboring regions that engender the desperation that makes these sorts of incidents more likely.

CSCE :: Press Release :: Statement on Terrorist Attack in Moscow

According to rebel sources, the Russian foreign ministry responded by describing the "cry for help" comment as "clumsy" and "inappropriate" while expressing gratitude over the statement of solidarity. It seems that almost everyone outside of the Kremlin realizes that incidents such as this are the predictable result of Russia's disastrous and oppressive North Caucasus policy.

 

[Marc39]

You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure. Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.

Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...

Quran 9:5...


Qur'an 33:26...

Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.

Qur'an 59:14...

The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.

Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.

The early Medina revelations were somewhat respectful of Jews and other non-Muslims, however, eventually, those revelations became increasingly militant and violent against kafirs, especially Jews, who rejected Muhammad's belief system.

Muhammad tried to coerce Jews into converting to Islam and those coinciding Koranic verses reflect a more tolerant view toward Jews. Muhammad even ordered that Muslims pray in the direction of Jerusalem to show good faith toward the Jews. However, after Jews rejected his cult, Muhammad redirected prayer away from Jerusalem and toward Mecca. He then proceeded to persecute the Jewish tribes, expelling some and keeping their land and possessions as booty, which Allah conveniently said was ok to do, oppressing other Jews for jizya payments and beheading 800 other Jews. The later Medina Koranic verses reflect Muhammad's tough stance toward the Jews.

Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.

You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.

I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.

 

[Marc39]

You are so damn reetawrded it's not even worth the effort to prove how wrong you are and as shown, you're nothing but an arrogant bigot who will say anything, regardless how false or stoopid, to justify your bullshit.

You mean, you are unable to prove how wrong I am. Because, I am correct.

Then explain these verses from the Bible. Since you are obviously an expert it would be an insult to cite chapter and verses. I'm sure you know exactly where these are...


(a covenant)
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

And....


(if someone worships a foreign god)
"If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt."

Judaism strictly forbids forced conversions or proselytizing of any kind of non-Jews, thus, your quotes are invalid. Non-Jews expressing an interest in conversion must prove a genuine desire to do so and then must undergo an extensive education process into Judaism.

In contrast, anyone wishing to convert to Christianity or Islam can do so merely by saying Christ is their savior or that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet.

Don't decide later to convert out of Islam as the penalty for apostasy is death.

 

[Marc39]

Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.

You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.

I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.

Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.

 

[Kalam]

The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.

More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:

8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction

Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State. The Holy Quran has laid down the injunction: "There should be no coercion in the matter of faith" (2:256). Though there is no truth and virtue greater than the religion of Truth - Islam, and Muslims are enjoined to invite people to embrace Islam and advance arguments in favour of it, they are not asked to enforce this faith on them. No force will be applied in order to compel them to accept Islam. Whoever accepts it he does so by his own choice. Muslims will welcome such a convert to Islam with open arms and admit him to their community with equal rights and privileges. But if somebody does not accept Islam, Muslims will have to recognize and respect his decision, and no moral, social or political pressure will be put on him to change his mind.

9. Protection of Religious Sentiments

Along with the freedom of conviction and freedom of conscience, Islam has given the right to the individual that his religious sentiments will be given due respect and nothing will be said or done which may encroach upon this right. It has been ordained by God in the Holy Quran: "Do not abuse those they appeal to instead of God" (6:108). These instructions are not only limited to idols and deities, but they also apply to the leaders or national heroes of the people. If a group of people holds a conviction which according to you is wrong, and holds certain persons in high esteem which according to you is not deserved by them, then it will not be justified in Islam that you use abusive language for them and thus injure their feelings. Islam does not prohibit people from holding debate and discussion on religious matters, but it wants that these discussions should be conducted in decency. "Do not argue with the people of the Book unless it is in the politest manner" (29:46)-says the Quran. This order is not merely limited to the people of the Scriptures, but applies with equal force to those following other faiths.

 

[rdean]

Have Republicans suggested the Muslims in Russia are friends of Obama? Yet?

 

[Charles Stucker]

The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.

More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:

8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction

Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State. The Holy Quran has laid down the injunction: "There should be no coercion in the matter of faith" (2:256). Though there is no truth and virtue greater than the religion of Truth - Islam, and Muslims are enjoined to invite people to embrace Islam and advance arguments in favour of it, they are not asked to enforce this faith on them. No force will be applied in order to compel them to accept Islam. Whoever accepts it he does so by his own choice. Muslims will welcome such a convert to Islam with open arms and admit him to their community with equal rights and privileges. But if somebody does not accept Islam, Muslims will have to recognize and respect his decision, and no moral, social or political pressure will be put on him to change his mind.

9. Protection of Religious Sentiments

Along with the freedom of conviction and freedom of conscience, Islam has given the right to the individual that his religious sentiments will be given due respect and nothing will be said or done which may encroach upon this right. It has been ordained by God in the Holy Quran: "Do not abuse those they appeal to instead of God" (6:108). These instructions are not only limited to idols and deities, but they also apply to the leaders or national heroes of the people. If a group of people holds a conviction which according to you is wrong, and holds certain persons in high esteem which according to you is not deserved by them, then it will not be justified in Islam that you use abusive language for them and thus injure their feelings. Islam does not prohibit people from holding debate and discussion on religious matters, but it wants that these discussions should be conducted in decency. "Do not argue with the people of the Book unless it is in the politest manner" (29:46)-says the Quran. This order is not merely limited to the people of the Scriptures, but applies with equal force to those following other faiths.

So basically all the Islamic states that coerce people into converting are illegitimate states and represent the drift from the true word, which means there needs to be a new prophet to get them back on the right path, except there can be no more prophets because Mo didn't want the competition so he said so himself.

WOW and you still cannot see the hypocrisy inherent in Islam.

 

[Kalam]

Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.

You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.

I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.

Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.

Put our livelihood at risk and we'll preserve it by taking back what is rightfully ours. If the Quraysh didn't want their caravans to be attacked, they should have thought twice before torturing, oppressing, and stealing from Muslims. Like all of those hostile to Islam, of course, they were eventually subdued.

 

[Marc39]

The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.

More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:

8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction

Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State.

And, death to those kafirs not wishing to live in a fascist Islamic state.

Freedom of conscience and conviction must also coincide with Islamic law. Islam is Arabic for submission. Muslims are those who have submitted. There is no room for freedom of though in Islam.

Bernard Lewis, the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, edifies...

The so-called Muslim fundamentalists are something quite different. In principle, all Muslims believe in the literal divine origin and textual inerrancy of the Koran. No one within Islam has ever asserted otherwise, and there is no liberal theology or critical Koran study against which a protest or reaction might be necessary. Where the so-called Muslim fundamentalists differ from other Muslims—and incidentally also from Christian fundamentalists—is in their scholasticism and their legalism. The gravamen of their case against existing regimes and prevailing ideologies is the abandonment of the Shari'a, the systematized law of Islam, and the adoption of what they see as infidel laws and customs. In his denunciation of the misdeeds of the Shah, Khomeini laid special emphasis on the Western-style emancipation of women, and the sharing of political power with non-Muslims. Other proponents of re-Islamization, in Egypt and elsewhere, have made similar complaints. Their critique is not, however, limited to these issues, but covers the whole range of social and cultural modernization. Their declared purpose is to undo all the political, legal, and consequent social changes that have been introduced during the period of Westernization, and to restore the full panoply of the Islamic state and the Islamic holy law. Only when the neopagan apostates who rule in Islamic lands have been deposed, and their laws and institutions abrogated and annulled, will the true Islamic life become possible, and the true mission of Islam be accomplished

 

[Marc39]

You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.

I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.

Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.

Put our livelihood at risk and we'll preserve it by taking back what is rightfully ours. If the Quraysh didn't want their caravans to be attacked, they should have thought twice before torturing, oppressing, and stealing from Muslims. Like all of those hostile to Islam, of course, they were eventually subdued.

Muhammad was a member of the Quraysh. The Quraysh simply wanted to practice their religion in Mecca in peace, which Muhammad would not tolerate. Muhammad persecuted the Quraysh for not converting to Islam and they even begged his uncle, Abu Talib, to ask him to leave them alone in peace. They said Muhammad could practice Islam in Mecca but they should be able to do so, as well. Muhammad would not stand for it and persisted in harrassing the Meccans. After leaving for Medina, he invaded Mecca to exact his vengeance. Just as he did with the Jews.

Indeed, it was Muhammad and his pirates who attacked the caravans for their "booty", which Allah conveniently revealed to Muhamad was acceptable behavior, and it was Muhammad who murdered female intellectuals and poets who criticized his repressive and violent belief system and it was Muhammad who stole the land of Jews and Christians simply because they wished to practice their own religion.

Muhammad's attacks on caravans was necessary to obtain money for the expansion of Islam, which, ultimately, conquered much of Europe, Asia and Africa after his death.

 

[Kalam]

So basically all the Islamic states that coerce people into converting are illegitimate states

Precisely.

and represent the drift from the true word,

Yes.

which means there needs to be a new prophet to get them back on the right path,

Damn! You were on a roll! No, the message has already been finalized and delivered. We have only to put its words into action.

except there can be no more prophets because Mo didn't want the competition so he said so himself.

WOW and you still cannot see the hypocrisy inherent in Islam.

The hypocrisy is of your own imagining. The problem you identified has dominated Islamic political thought for nearly a century. From Ma'alim fil Tariq ("Milestones"), an influential work by Sayyid Qutb:

If we look at all the sources and foundations of modern ways of living, it becomes clear that the whole world is steeped in jahiliyyah (ignorance of Islam), and all the marvelous material comforts and high-level inventions do not diminish this ignorance. This jahiliyyah is based on rebellion against God's sovereignty on earth. It transfers to man one of the greatest attributes of God, namely sovereignty, and makes some men lords over others. It is now not in that simple and primitive form of the ancient jahiliyyah, but takes the form of claiming that the right to create values, to legislate rules of collective behavior, and to choose any way of life rests with men, without regard to what God has prescribed. The result of this rebellion against the authority of God is the oppression of His creatures. Thus the humiliation of the common man under the communist systems and the exploitation of individuals under the capitalist systems are but a corollary of rebellion against God's authority and the denial of the dignity of man given to him by God.

I don't agree with him on every point, but he's famous for denying the legitimacy of self-styled "Islamic" states.

 

[Kalam]

And, death to those kafirs not wishing to live in a fascist Islamic state.

If "fascist" principles such as freedom of worship are disliked by those living in an Islamic state, nothing prevents them from leaving:

Narrated Jabir: A bedouin came to the Prophet and said, "Please take my Pledge of allegiance to Islam." So the Prophet took from him the Pledge of allegiance to Islam. He came the next day with a fever and said to the Prophet, "Cancel my pledge." But the Prophet refused, and when the bedouin went away, the Prophet said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows: It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good." - Sahih Bukhari, Judgments, no. 323​

Freedom of conscience and conviction must also coincide with Islamic law. Islam is Arabic for submission. Muslims are those who have submitted. There is no room for freedom of though in Islam.

Islam describes submission to the will of God, and God has ordained freedom of conscience and conviction.

Bernard Lewis, the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, edifies...

"Islamic scholar" describes an 'alim, a devout Muslim who has been thoroughly educated in Shari'ah and other matters of religious significance in order to address various Islamic issues. Bernard Lewis is an orientalist, and although he is notable among his dying breed, his perceptions of Islam mean little to us. I can assure you that no Muslim would use a non-believer's musings as the basis for any piece of legislation or legal interpretation in an Islamic state.

 

[Charles Stucker]

The hypocrisy is of your own imagining.

Call it like I see it.
Judaism became corrupt, thus prophet Jesus.
Christianity became corrupt, thus prophet Mohamed.
But Islam becomes corrupt and suddenly no more prophets?
This IS the essence of the Islamic rationale is it not? That only the most recent prophet represents the true word of god. How convenient for Mohamed's posterity that he remembered to exclude the possibility that a corrupt regime of Islam would see yet another prophet.
Yet such a prophet would make more sense than not.

The other possibility is that Mohamed was a fraud from the start. Then there is no internal inconsistency, rather everything holds together as a compilation of what were at that time perceived as memes to keep a society functioning for centuries. Of course the true believer doesn't care about that they just believe. I wonder what happens when they die and have been wrong their whole life? Do they get a refund?