Israel attacks civilians

[georgephillip]

Israel is a land of antiquity! And the first & only Palestinians WERE JEWS! Fact is there were no Muslims, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.

The re-establishment of Israel in 1948 was done legally & morally by a vote of the UN whereas all Muslims lands are stolen lands from the indigenous populations conquered by force.

P F Tinmore;2229292]Nothing new here. Israel was created by attacking civilians and they continue today.

[/QUOTE]
"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ...Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years.

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.

"By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion.

"The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders."

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak

 

[Wolverine1984]

Israel is a land of antiquity! And the first & only Palestinians WERE JEWS! Fact is there were no Muslims, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.

The re-establishment of Israel in 1948 was done legally & morally by a vote of the UN whereas all Muslims lands are stolen lands from the indigenous populations conquered by force.

P F Tinmore;2229292]Nothing new here. Israel was created by attacking civilians and they continue today.

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ...Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years.

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.

"By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion.

"The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders."

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak

Sure, every thing Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak says must be true because ... Wait, Why exactly everything he says must be true ?
Did he do a historical and genetic research about Palestinian people ?
Is he a scientist ?
No on both counts , this guy's opinion on the matter is no more credible that anyone else ...Opinions are not facts.

Your argument is vacant of factual evidence, and isn't much more that hearsay.

 

[MJB12741]

This is ridiculous to state. Would you be so kind as top show us a map of your ancient Palestine? The first & only INDIGENOUS Palestinians WERE JEWS!

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ...Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

 

[Hossfly]

Just to be clear about the situation, let's go back to 1948, specifically the day after Israeli Statehood and find out why and how the refugee problem started, why the camps came to be and the "occupation." Also why the "Palestinians" left in the first place and who told them to leave and why.I will be bringing up other issues and I expect clear,complete and concise answers and no cottonpickin' Turnspeak as I have seen on this thread already.

 

[georgephillip]

Just to be clear about the situation, let's go back to 1948, specifically the day after Israeli Statehood and find out why and how the refugee problem started, why the camps came to be and the "occupation." Also why the "Palestinians" left in the first place and who told them to leave and why.I will be bringing up other issues and I expect clear,complete and concise answers and no cottonpickin' Turnspeak as I have seen on this thread already.

In 1948 one third of the citizens of Mandate Palestine imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on a majority of their fellow Palestinians. Welcome to the cottonpickin' asylum, Hossfly.

 

[georgephillip]

This is ridiculous to state. Would you be so kind as top show us a map of your ancient Palestine? The first & only INDIGENOUS Palestinians WERE JEWS!

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ...Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

Please mention your delusion to the next Canaanite, Egyptian, or Philistine you meet:

"During the Bronze Age, independent Canaanite city-states were established, and were influenced by the surrounding civilizations of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Phoenicia, Minoan Crete, and Syria.

"Between 1550-1400 BCE, the Canaanite cities became vassals to the Egyptian New Kingdom who held power until the 1178 BCE Battle of Djahy (Canaan) during the wider Bronze Age collapse.

"The Philistines arrived and mingled with the local population, and according to Biblical tradition, the United Kingdom of Israel was established in 1020 BCE and split within a century to form the northern Kingdom of Israel, and the southern Kingdom of Judah.

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hossfly]

Thanks for the welcome,georgephillip. As for your reply, I've heard it a thousand times. Seems like no one can ever address the issues I stated. Seems also that "Palestine" was awarded a chance to have a State but they refused and moved out when Israel was attacked. For 64 years all they have had to do is utter three little words and they will have their State.

 

[georgephillip]

Thanks for the welcome,georgephillip. As for your reply, I've heard it a thousand times. Seems like no one can ever address the issues I stated. Seems also that "Palestine" was awarded a chance to have a State but they refused and moved out when Israel was attacked. For 64 years all they have had to do is utter three little words and they will have their State.

There's a lot of give and take about who attacked who in 1948 and 1967; however, there's less controversy over a little known peace proposal offered by the Arabs in 1976 that called for a two-state solution along the pre-June '67 borders with "minor and mutual modifications".

The proposal was put forth at the UN Security Council in January of 1976.
Israel refused to attend the session.
The US vetoed the resolution and did so again in 1980.

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"

 

[Wolverine1984]

just to be clear about the situation, let's go back to 1948, specifically the day after israeli statehood and find out why and how the refugee problem started, why the camps came to be and the "occupation." also why the "palestinians" left in the first place and who told them to leave and why.i will be bringing up other issues and i expect clear,complete and concise answers and no cottonpickin' turnspeak as i have seen on this thread already.

in 1948 one third of the citizens of mandate palestine imposed a jewish state by force of arms on a majority of their fellow palestinians. Welcome to the cottonpickin' asylum, hossfly.

Here you go again about 'imposing a Jewish state using force', you say it time and again , but have no proof.
There was a war going on at that time, and both sides were active participants.

this is ridiculous to state. Would you be so kind as top show us a map of your ancient palestine? The first & only indigenous palestinians were jews!

"palestinians have continuously resided in palestine since four thousand years before christ...their ancestors built the cities of jerusalem, nablus, jericho, beisan, acca and jaffa.

please mention your delusion to the next canaanite, egyptian, or philistine you meet:

"during the bronze age, independent canaanite city-states were established, and were influenced by the surrounding civilizations of ancient egypt, mesopotamia, phoenicia, minoan crete, and syria.

"between 1550-1400 bce, the canaanite cities became vassals to the egyptian new kingdom who held power until the 1178 bce battle of djahy (canaan) during the wider bronze age collapse.

"the philistines arrived and mingled with the local population, and according to biblical tradition, the united kingdom of israel was established in 1020 bce and split within a century to form the northern kingdom of israel, and the southern kingdom of judah.

history of palestine - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does it prove anything you said before ?
That Palestinians have been in the land for 4000 years before Christ ?
Granted that the Jews were not the first indigenous population , but it's laughable to say that that Palestinians were there for 6000 years. (And you have no proof of that )

 

[P F Tinmore]

First off, welcome to the board Hossfly and MJB12741.

We need to dispense of the name game. All countries have a population that predates the name of that country. When a new flag is raised over city hall it does not mean that everyone moves out and a whole new population moves in or is created out of thin air.

At the demise of the Ottoman Empire the League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders. All of the people who were normal residents inside those borders legally became Palestinians. Those people were the Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were living there at that time. It did not matter if they had lived there for six months or six thousand years. Religion did not matter. Ethnic origin did not matter. They were all equally Palestinians.

Those Palestinians, be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews, are the only people who have rights inside those borders. Foreigners have no such rights.

 

[Wolverine1984]

First off, welcome to the board Hossfly and MJB12741.

We need to dispense of the name game. All countries have a population that predates the name of that country. When a new flag is raised over city hall it does not mean that everyone moves out and a whole new population moves in or is created out of thin air.

At the demise of the Ottoman Empire the League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders. All of the people who were normal residents inside those borders legally became Palestinians. Those people were the Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were living there at that time. It did not matter if they had lived there for six months or six thousand years. Religion did not matter. Ethnic origin did not matter. They were all equally Palestinians.

Those Palestinians, be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews, are the only people who have rights inside those borders. Foreigners have no such rights.

League of Nations created the state of Palestine

I searched far and wide in the wiki pages of 'Palestine' and 'State of Palestine' for the creation of 'State of Palestine' after the demise of the Ottoman empire ,but did not find anything to support your claim.

The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the Mandate for Palestine,[1] was a geopolitic polity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Syria after World War I. The mandate formalised British rule in Palestine, from 1922 until 1948. With the League of Nations' consent, Britain subdivided the region covered by the mandate into two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River remained under direct British rule until 1948 and was known as Palestine, <== this does not mean 'creation of the State of Palestine' it means they divided the geographical area. while the land east of the Jordan became a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, which gained independence in 1946.[2]

 

[georgephillip]

just to be clear about the situation, let's go back to 1948, specifically the day after israeli statehood and find out why and how the refugee problem started, why the camps came to be and the "occupation." also why the "palestinians" left in the first place and who told them to leave and why.i will be bringing up other issues and i expect clear,complete and concise answers and no cottonpickin' turnspeak as i have seen on this thread already.

in 1948 one third of the citizens of mandate palestine imposed a jewish state by force of arms on a majority of their fellow palestinians. Welcome to the cottonpickin' asylum, hossfly.

Here you go again about 'imposing a Jewish state using force', you say it time and again , but have no proof.
There was a war going on at that time, and both sides were active participants.

this is ridiculous to state. Would you be so kind as top show us a map of your ancient palestine? The first & only indigenous palestinians were jews!

"palestinians have continuously resided in palestine since four thousand years before christ...their ancestors built the cities of jerusalem, nablus, jericho, beisan, acca and jaffa.

please mention your delusion to the next canaanite, egyptian, or philistine you meet:

"during the bronze age, independent canaanite city-states were established, and were influenced by the surrounding civilizations of ancient egypt, mesopotamia, phoenicia, minoan crete, and syria.

"between 1550-1400 bce, the canaanite cities became vassals to the egyptian new kingdom who held power until the 1178 bce battle of djahy (canaan) during the wider bronze age collapse.

"the philistines arrived and mingled with the local population, and according to biblical tradition, the united kingdom of israel was established in 1020 bce and split within a century to form the northern kingdom of israel, and the southern kingdom of judah.

history of palestine - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does it prove anything you said before ?
That Palestinians have been in the land for 4000 years before Christ ?
Granted that the Jews were not the first indigenous population , but it's laughable to say that that Palestinians were there for 6000 years. (And you have no proof of that )

In 1948 the Jews in Mandate Palestine represented one-third of the overall population and owned about 7% of the total land. Unsatisfied with the 55% of Mandate Palestine land bequeathed them by the UN, Jews expelled over 700,000 of their neighbors from land they had lived on for generations. By 1967 Jews occupied the final 22% of historic Palestine as well.

From the very beginning of the Zionist project racist Jews made it crystal clear their final goal in Palestine was to occupy all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River by transferring the indigenous population to neighboring Arab states.

If we going to rationally discuss who occupied the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan "first", it might be useful to remember how that worked out for Hitler. During the rise of his "Thousand Year Reich" Hitler commissioned detailed genetic studies on the origin of the "Master Race" and found they led to bronze-age Semites.

 

[P F Tinmore]

First off, welcome to the board Hossfly and MJB12741.

We need to dispense of the name game. All countries have a population that predates the name of that country. When a new flag is raised over city hall it does not mean that everyone moves out and a whole new population moves in or is created out of thin air.

At the demise of the Ottoman Empire the League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders. All of the people who were normal residents inside those borders legally became Palestinians. Those people were the Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were living there at that time. It did not matter if they had lived there for six months or six thousand years. Religion did not matter. Ethnic origin did not matter. They were all equally Palestinians.

Those Palestinians, be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews, are the only people who have rights inside those borders. Foreigners have no such rights.

League of Nations created the state of Palestine

I searched far and wide in the wiki pages of 'Palestine' and 'State of Palestine' for the creation of 'State of Palestine' after the demise of the Ottoman empire ,but did not find anything to support your claim.

The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the Mandate for Palestine,[1] was a geopolitic polity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Syria after World War I. The mandate formalised British rule in Palestine, from 1922 until 1948. With the League of Nations' consent, Britain subdivided the region covered by the mandate into two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River remained under direct British rule until 1948 and was known as Palestine, <== this does not mean 'creation of the State of Palestine' it means they divided the geographical area. while the land east of the Jordan became a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, which gained independence in 1946.[2]

A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[16]

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The mandate was not Palestine. It was administrative assistance to Palestine.

 

[Wolverine1984]

First off, welcome to the board Hossfly and MJB12741.

We need to dispense of the name game. All countries have a population that predates the name of that country. When a new flag is raised over city hall it does not mean that everyone moves out and a whole new population moves in or is created out of thin air.

At the demise of the Ottoman Empire the League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders. All of the people who were normal residents inside those borders legally became Palestinians. Those people were the Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were living there at that time. It did not matter if they had lived there for six months or six thousand years. Religion did not matter. Ethnic origin did not matter. They were all equally Palestinians.

Those Palestinians, be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews, are the only people who have rights inside those borders. Foreigners have no such rights.

I searched far and wide in the wiki pages of 'Palestine' and 'State of Palestine' for the creation of 'State of Palestine' after the demise of the Ottoman empire ,but did not find anything to support your claim.

A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[16]

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The mandate was not Palestine. It was administrative assistance to Palestine.

Your quote is based upon Palestine mandate being class A mandate

Class A mandates, were territories formerly controlled by the Ottoman Empire that were deemed to "... have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone

League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically it means that the British believed that in the future the area under class A mandate could become a sovereign state, they were right with the Jordanian part , but they failed to peacefully resolute the reminder of the mandate.

• Palestine (United Kingdom), from 29 September 1923 – 15 May 1948.[14][15][16] In April 1921, Transjordan, occupying 77% of the area of the original mandate,[17] was incorporated as an autonomous area.[18][19] It eventually became the independent Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan (later Jordan) on 25 May 1946. A plan for peacefully dividing the remainder of the Mandate failed. The Mandate ended at midnight on 14 May 1948, and the 1948 Arab–Israeli War began. Following the war, 75% of the area west of the Jordan River was controlled by the new State of Israel.[20] Other parts, until 1967, formed the West Bank of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip. Small slivers of territory east and south of the Sea of Galilee were held by Syria.

I don't know what you think your quote proves ...
If you look-up Israel in Wikipedia , that's what you get :

Following the 1947 United Nations plan to partition Palestine, on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[8] and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared Israel a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine.

Meaning that Israel ,was a state created on 14 May 1948.
On the other hand if you look-up State of Palestine in Wikipedia , that's what you get :

state that was proclaimed in exile in Algiers on 15 November 1988, when the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) National Council (PNC) adopted the unilateral Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

Meaning it was declared on the 15 November 1988.

Why doesn't it state that it was a state in 1922 ?
because it wasn't.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I searched far and wide in the wiki pages of 'Palestine' and 'State of Palestine' for the creation of 'State of Palestine' after the demise of the Ottoman empire ,but did not find anything to support your claim.

The mandate was not Palestine. It was administrative assistance to Palestine.

Your quote is based upon Palestine mandate being class A mandate

League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestine was a class A mandate.

Basically it means that the British believed that in the future the area under class A mandate could become a sovereign state, they were right with the Jordanian part , but they failed to peacefully resolute the reminder of the mandate.
I don't know what you think your quote proves ...
If you look-up Israel in Wikipedia , that's what you get :

Following the 1947 United Nations plan to partition Palestine, on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[8] and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared Israel a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine.

Meaning that Israel ,was a state created on 14 May 1948.

Was it? There was no partition of Palestine. Israel was created in Palestine with no legal standing. Israel was created by foreigners for foreigners in spite of the virtually universal rejection by Palestine's native population, including the Jews. This was a direct violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination.

The 1949 armistice agreements did not mention a state called Israel. They made no mention of any land or borders for an Israel.

On the other hand if you look-up State of Palestine in Wikipedia , that's what you get :

state that was proclaimed in exile in Algiers on 15 November 1988, when the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) National Council (PNC) adopted the unilateral Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

Meaning it was declared on the 15 November 1988.

Why doesn't it state that it was a state in 1922 ?
because it wasn't.

Palestine was declared in 1948, 1988, and again in 2002. What does that mean? The Palestinians saw themselves as an independent state early in the mandate. They are the only ones with the right to make that determination.

 

[Wolverine1984]

state that was proclaimed in exile in algiers on 15 november 1988, when the palestine liberation organization's (plo) national council (pnc) adopted the unilateral palestinian declaration of independence.

meaning it was declared on the 15 november 1988.

Why doesn't it state that it was a state in 1922 ?
Because it wasn't.

palestine was declared in 1948, 1988, and again in 2002. What does that mean? The palestinians saw themselves as an independent state early in the mandate. They are the only ones with the right to make that determination.

For some reason Wiki is not aware of the deceleration of Palestine to be a sovereign state in 1948 , or 1922 like you said before.

The palestinians saw themselves as an independent state

Sadly seeing yourself as an sovereign state and being an sovereign state is not the same thing. So you basically have nothing.

And the mandate being class 'A' means that the teritory will be a state sometime in the future. I does not grant sovereignty to the territory or it's population.

You like to throw the 'self determination' term around, self-determination does not grant independence and have nothing to do with territory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

state that was proclaimed in exile in algiers on 15 november 1988, when the palestine liberation organization's (plo) national council (pnc) adopted the unilateral palestinian declaration of independence.

palestine was declared in 1948, 1988, and again in 2002. What does that mean? The palestinians saw themselves as an independent state early in the mandate. They are the only ones with the right to make that determination.

For some reason Wiki is not aware of the deceleration of Palestine to be a sovereign state in 1948 , or 1922 like you said before.

The palestinians saw themselves as an independent state

Sadly seeing yourself as an sovereign state and being an sovereign state is not the same thing. So you basically have nothing.

And the mandate being class 'A' means that the teritory will be a state sometime in the future. I does not grant sovereignty to the territory or it's population.

You like to throw the 'self determination' term around, self-determination does not grant independence and have nothing to do with territory.

Self determination is the basic human right. It is mentioned in the League of Nations covenant, the UN charter and in UN resolutions and many other sources. What does that right mean and who has that right?

 

[P F Tinmore]

AL-KHALIL, (PIC)-- The Israeli occupation authority (IOA) has decided to expropriate 30 dunums of Palestinian cultivated land to the east of Yatta village south of Al-Khalil.

Quds Press quoted Ratib Al-Jabour, the coordinator of the popular anti settlement committee, as saying that the IOA told owners of those land that their land, which was confiscated weeks ago, were transferred into state property and that they would never be allowed back into it.

Jabour said that groups of Jewish settlers stormed this land about two weeks ago and took photos of its water wells and caves then declared it would not be in the hands of Palestinians for long.

In a similar development, he said that a group of Jewish settlers, escorted by Israeli occupation forces, delivered to Palestinian farmers owning land near Susiya settlement, to the south east of Yatta, on Wednesday a ruling by an Israeli court that their land would be seized and annexed to the settlement. He noted that IOF soldiers erected watchtowers on the land.

IOA confiscates 30 dunums of Palestinian land in Yatta

 

[Wolverine1984]

You love spamming eh ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You love spamming eh ?

Define spam.