Israel attacks Gaza strip after Hamas armed wing parade

[Weatherman2020]

Fact remains the Israeli government and military have Arab Muslims serving.

Yet one Jew living next door to a Palestinian, let alone serve in the Palestinian government and military, is justification to go out and slit the throats of children.

Palestinians should be eradicated from the face of the earth.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course that is a BS answer. Why can't the come and go by sea. Israel has no border there.

Well, there is a maritime border between Gaza and Israel, just as there is a maritime border between Canada and the US.

And, of course, its more complicated than the Canada/US border because of the conflict.

BUT, my point was that Gaza is not a prison. Its a misuse of the word, in order to demonize Israel. (Notice that no one demonizes Egypt for the same border protection). Israel and Egypt, just like every country in the world, has a right to permit or deny entry into their country.

Well, there is a maritime border between Gaza and Israel,

That is only half an answer. It is true that Gaza waters borders with Israeli and Egyptian waters. However, Gaza waters also border on international waters that are free for all to use.

 

[Shusha]

RoccoR has it correct when he said: you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations

So my question for Team Palestine on this thread is to define the GOAL, particularly with respect to Gaza.

Is the goal a self-governing, self-determining territory with good relations and mutual economic gain with Israel, Egypt and other neighbouring nations?

Is the goal to liberate Palestine? (By "liberate", I mean to dismantle Israel, return all of the territory to Arab Muslim rule, and probably do some significant amount of ethnic cleansing of bad Jews.)

Or is there some other goal?


I'd also like to highlight what Lipush said some pages back: If you think Israel bombing Gaza is morally wrong, but do not see Hamas bombing Israel (rockets) as morally wrong -- you are a hypocrit. If you justify Hamas bombing Israel as a morally permissible defensive action, and you don't justify Israel bombing Gaza as a morally permissible defensive action -- you are a hypocrit -- ESPECIALLY if you acknowledge that the goal of the Palestinians is to dismantle Israel and deny Jewish independence, self-determination and self-government.

 

[Phoenall]

I don't believe a word he says.

So the usual trolling and infantile "I'm not impressed, try to impress me" stance once hit with facts in your face.

"Lets be clear" , Israel does not do defense, they do offense.

So why haven't you produced the evidence to back up your claims. Every time Israel has responded to islamonazi terrorism, violence and war crimes you claim it is the Jews starting the wars again

 

[Phoenall]

Targeting civilians is an international war crime in every book.

Israel hits Hamas targets in Gaza Strip after rocket struck border town | Fox News

then why does israel.continue to target civilians?

It doesn't it targets illegal weapons and military targets.

sure it does. just happens to kill far more civilians than the palestinians ever have. but that's okay because israel gets a pass.

If hamas put as much energy into rebuilding gaza and sueing for peace not one person would be injured or killed. Put 100 civilians on a rooftop to stop it from being a target will result in civilian deaths. Like the school allegedly targetted by Israel the only deaths were two terrorists on a motorbike outside the school grounds and "civilians" running towards the mortars that were falling on the illegal rocket launcher

 

[Weatherman2020]

RoccoR has it correct when he said: you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations

So my question for Team Palestine on this thread is to define the GOAL, particularly with respect to Gaza.

Is the goal a self-governing, self-determining territory with good relations and mutual economic gain with Israel, Egypt and other neighbouring nations?

Is the goal to liberate Palestine? (By "liberate", I mean to dismantle Israel, return all of the territory to Arab Muslim rule, and probably do some significant amount of ethnic cleansing of bad Jews.)

Or is there some other goal?


I'd also like to highlight what Lipush said some pages back: If you think Israel bombing Gaza is morally wrong, but do not see Hamas bombing Israel (rockets) as morally wrong -- you are a hypocrit. If you justify Hamas bombing Israel as a morally permissible defensive action, and you don't justify Israel bombing Gaza as a morally permissible defensive action -- you are a hypocrit -- ESPECIALLY if you acknowledge that the goal of the Palestinians is to dismantle Israel and deny Jewish independence, self-determination and self-government.

RoccoR has it correct when he said: you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations

So my question for Team Palestine on this thread is to define the GOAL, particularly with respect to Gaza.

Is the goal a self-governing, self-determining territory with good relations and mutual economic gain with Israel, Egypt and other neighbouring nations?

Is the goal to liberate Palestine? (By "liberate", I mean to dismantle Israel, return all of the territory to Arab Muslim rule, and probably do some significant amount of ethnic cleansing of bad Jews.)

Or is there some other goal?


I'd also like to highlight what Lipush said some pages back: If you think Israel bombing Gaza is morally wrong, but do not see Hamas bombing Israel (rockets) as morally wrong -- you are a hypocrit. If you justify Hamas bombing Israel as a morally permissible defensive action, and you don't justify Israel bombing Gaza as a morally permissible defensive action -- you are a hypocrit -- ESPECIALLY if you acknowledge that the goal of the Palestinians is to dismantle Israel and deny Jewish independence, self-determination and self-government.

Palestinian principles as defined in the Hamas Charter:
Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

 

[Phoenall]

Pro palestinians hold such great care for Palestinian rights, whine about a freaking water tower, but launching rockets upon children heads' is acceptable in their book.

Well F#ck you. You're hypocrites. Hamas targets were hit. Not civilians. I wish the IDF would do it everyday.

P.S- Penelope, you need to understand. Nobody cares what you believe or not

a water tower is a hamas target?

If hamas use it for more than a water tower then yes, read the Geneva conventions it is all detailed in there

 

[Phoenall]

I don't believe a word he says.

Mark Regev, Israel's official spokesliar.

Is that like P.F. Tinmore the hamas stooge and propagandist liar

 

[ogibillm]

Targeting civilians is an international war crime in every book.

Israel hits Hamas targets in Gaza Strip after rocket struck border town | Fox News

then why does israel.continue to target civilians?

It doesn't it targets illegal weapons and military targets.

sure it does. just happens to kill far more civilians than the palestinians ever have. but that's okay because israel gets a pass.

If hamas put as much energy into rebuilding gaza and sueing for peace not one person would be injured or killed. Put 100 civilians on a rooftop to stop it from being a target will result in civilian deaths. Like the school allegedly targetted by Israel the only deaths were two terrorists on a motorbike outside the school grounds and "civilians" running towards the mortars that were falling on the illegal rocket launcher

israel has killed far more civilians than the palestinians have.
israel has destroyed far more homes than the palestinians have.
israel has detained and imprisoned far more palestinians than palestinians have imprisoned israelis.
israel has taken more palestinian land than the palestinians have taken israeli land.

why don't the palestinian people have a right to be angry or defend themselves?

 

[ogibillm]

Pro palestinians hold such great care for Palestinian rights, whine about a freaking water tower, but launching rockets upon children heads' is acceptable in their book.

Well F#ck you. You're hypocrites. Hamas targets were hit. Not civilians. I wish the IDF would do it everyday.

P.S- Penelope, you need to understand. Nobody cares what you believe or not

a water tower is a hamas target?

If hamas use it for more than a water tower then yes, read the Geneva conventions it is all detailed in there

just be honest - you don't care what it is used for, you will excuse any israeli action.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Targeting civilians is an international war crime in every book.

Israel hits Hamas targets in Gaza Strip after rocket struck border town | Fox News

then why does israel.continue to target civilians?

It doesn't it targets illegal weapons and military targets.

sure it does. just happens to kill far more civilians than the palestinians ever have. but that's okay because israel gets a pass.

If hamas put as much energy into rebuilding gaza and sueing for peace not one person would be injured or killed. Put 100 civilians on a rooftop to stop it from being a target will result in civilian deaths. Like the school allegedly targetted by Israel the only deaths were two terrorists on a motorbike outside the school grounds and "civilians" running towards the mortars that were falling on the illegal rocket launcher

israel has killed far more civilians than the palestinians have.
israel has destroyed far more homes than the palestinians have.
israel has detained and imprisoned far more palestinians than palestinians have imprisoned israelis.
israel has taken more palestinian land than the palestinians have taken israeli land.

why don't the palestinian people have a right to be angry or defend themselves?

America killed more Nazis and destroyed more buildings, so what's your dumbass point again?

 

[Phoenall]

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.[/QUOTE

I don't believe a word he says.

Mark Regev, Israel's official spokesliar.

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.

and Betanyahu thought it was a good thing , and Zionist were filming 911 as it happened.

As where thousands of American Christians, atheists, muslims, sikhs etc. All you have is 5 out of 20,000 and you try to make a mountain out of a grain of sand

 

[Phoenall]

How is their "parade" relevant to the air-force's response to Gaza's crimes yesterday?

What crimes, the make believe ones. Every new defense minister needs to struck his stuff, and well its the 2 year anniversary, we can't let those who live in Gaza think Israel has turned soft.

Firing rockets across the border is a war crime and it is time the UN took action.

Well israel should stop firing rockets across the border then

THEY WILL WHEN HAMAS STOPS, UNTIL THEN THEY WILL RETALIATE ROCKET FOR ROCKET AS DETAILED IN INTERNATIONAL LAW. TIME FOR THE ARAB MUSLIMS TO START OBEYING INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND UN RESOLUTIONS

Who was Israel's boogyman for the forty years of occupation before there was Hamas?

The arab league, PLO and a whole host of other islamonazi terrorist groups. In fact for the 1400 years prior to the occupation it was just islam

 

[Weatherman2020]

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.[/QUOTE

I don't believe a word he says.

Mark Regev, Israel's official spokesliar.

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.

and Betanyahu thought it was a good thing , and Zionist were filming 911 as it happened.

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.[/QUOTE

I don't believe a word he says.

Mark Regev, Israel's official spokesliar.

All one needs to know about the Palestinian pigs is they danced in the streets on 9-11.

and Betanyahu thought it was a good thing , and Zionist were filming 911 as it happened.

Shitforbrains believes it because some hacking bitch with smokers cough said its true on YouTube. What a pathetic little pig.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Penelope, et al,

In "Military Operations," as well as "Intelligence Operations," the difference between what is "Offensive" (Positive) and "Defensive" (Counter) is a matter distinguished by the purpose and intent, and not methodology, tactics or formation. Just as a "Positive Intelligence" operations may look very similar to a "Counterintelligence" operation (the same methods of operation in direct observation) --- so it is with "Offensive Military Operations" (shoot, move, and communicate) and "Defensive Military Operations"

Examples of "Defensive Operations" which might look like "Offensive Operations" are:

active defense — The employment of limited offensive action and counterattacks to deny a contested area or position to the enemy. See also passive defense. (JP 3-60)

aerospace defense — 1. All defensive measures designed to destroy or nullify attacking enemy aircraft and missiles and also negate hostile space systems. 2. An inclusive term encompassing air defense, ballistic missile defense, and space defense. See also air defense; space defense. (JP 3-27)

air and missile defense — Direct [active and passive] defensive actions taken to destroy, nullify, or reduce the effectiveness of hostile air and ballistic missile threats against friendly forces and assets. Also called AMD. (JP 3-01)

base defense — The local military measures, both normal and emergency, required to nullify or reduce the effectiveness of enemy attacks on, or sabotage of, a base, to ensure that the maximum capacity of its facilities is available to Israeli Defense Forces. (JP 3-10)

counterintelligence — Information gathered and activities conducted to identify, deceive, exploit, disrupt, or protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted for or on behalf of foreign powers, organizations or persons or their agents, or international terrorist organizations or activities. Also called CI. See also counterespionage; security. (JP 2-01.2)

counterintelligence operations — Proactive activities designed to identify, exploit, neutralize, or deter foreign intelligence collection and terrorist activities directed against the Israel. See also counterintelligence; operation. (JP 2-01.2)

counterterrorism — Activities and operations taken to neutralize terrorists and their organizations and networks in order to render them incapable of using violence to instill fear and coerce governments or societies to achieve their goals. Also called CT. See also antiterrorism; combating terrorism; terrorism. (JP 3-26)

counter threat finance — Activities conducted to deny, disrupt, destroy, or defeat the generation, storage, movement, and use of assets to fund activities that support an adversary’s ability to negatively affect Israeli interests. Also called CTF. (JP 3-05)
​

I don't believe a word he says.

So the usual trolling and infantile "I'm not impressed, try to impress me" stance once hit with facts in your face.

"Lets be clear" , Israel does not do defense, they do offense.

(COMMENT)

Before you can even suggest whether an activity or operation is either "Offensive" or "Defensive" --- you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations. The elimination, neutralization or termination of a Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) resource is actually the — Proactive activities designed to identify, exploit, neutralize, or deter foreign intelligence collection and terrorist activities directed against the Israel. See also counterintelligence; operation; normally considered a counterintelligence mission but can be conducted by military resources.

If an Israeli Longbow takes-out a HAMAS leader, it is not an IDF offensive mission (per se). It is the elimination of a threat to Israel; a self-proclaimed Jihadist that has openly declared itself in an armed struggle with Israel and has demonstrated its ability to carry-out that threat. The elimination of this threat is a defensive mission that adds to the protection of the nation and its people. It does not matter the method of operation or the source of the plan; it is a defensive operation no matter what activity carries it out (IDF, AMAN, or the Shin Bet).

Most Respectfully,
R

So if Israel has information of even a "perceived attack" its defending itself.

In that case, since Israel has the Palestinians in Gaza fenced in and their life's are under the goodness of Israel to let supplies in or to even leave the open air prison (which they are being kept against their will and without being found quilty of any crime) ,

any attack Hamas would do on Israel is always a defense attack, to set their civilians free so as to maintain their life, safety, and freedom.

That also goes for the West Bank, when the Israelis come onto their property, they are merely defending their home and life's.

You on meth or crack?

 

[Phoenall]

Penelope, et al,

In "Military Operations," as well as "Intelligence Operations," the difference between what is "Offensive" (Positive) and "Defensive" (Counter) is a matter distinguished by the purpose and intent, and not methodology, tactics or formation. Just as a "Positive Intelligence" operations may look very similar to a "Counterintelligence" operation (the same methods of operation in direct observation) --- so it is with "Offensive Military Operations" (shoot, move, and communicate) and "Defensive Military Operations"

Examples of "Defensive Operations" which might look like "Offensive Operations" are:

active defense — The employment of limited offensive action and counterattacks to deny a contested area or position to the enemy. See also passive defense. (JP 3-60)

aerospace defense — 1. All defensive measures designed to destroy or nullify attacking enemy aircraft and missiles and also negate hostile space systems. 2. An inclusive term encompassing air defense, ballistic missile defense, and space defense. See also air defense; space defense. (JP 3-27)

air and missile defense — Direct [active and passive] defensive actions taken to destroy, nullify, or reduce the effectiveness of hostile air and ballistic missile threats against friendly forces and assets. Also called AMD. (JP 3-01)

base defense — The local military measures, both normal and emergency, required to nullify or reduce the effectiveness of enemy attacks on, or sabotage of, a base, to ensure that the maximum capacity of its facilities is available to Israeli Defense Forces. (JP 3-10)

counterintelligence — Information gathered and activities conducted to identify, deceive, exploit, disrupt, or protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted for or on behalf of foreign powers, organizations or persons or their agents, or international terrorist organizations or activities. Also called CI. See also counterespionage; security. (JP 2-01.2)

counterintelligence operations — Proactive activities designed to identify, exploit, neutralize, or deter foreign intelligence collection and terrorist activities directed against the Israel. See also counterintelligence; operation. (JP 2-01.2)

counterterrorism — Activities and operations taken to neutralize terrorists and their organizations and networks in order to render them incapable of using violence to instill fear and coerce governments or societies to achieve their goals. Also called CT. See also antiterrorism; combating terrorism; terrorism. (JP 3-26)

counter threat finance — Activities conducted to deny, disrupt, destroy, or defeat the generation, storage, movement, and use of assets to fund activities that support an adversary’s ability to negatively affect Israeli interests. Also called CTF. (JP 3-05)
​

I don't believe a word he says.

So the usual trolling and infantile "I'm not impressed, try to impress me" stance once hit with facts in your face.

"Lets be clear" , Israel does not do defense, they do offense.

(COMMENT)

Before you can even suggest whether an activity or operation is either "Offensive" or "Defensive" --- you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations. The elimination, neutralization or termination of a Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) resource is actually the — Proactive activities designed to identify, exploit, neutralize, or deter foreign intelligence collection and terrorist activities directed against the Israel. See also counterintelligence; operation; normally considered a counterintelligence mission but can be conducted by military resources.

If an Israeli Longbow takes-out a HAMAS leader, it is not an IDF offensive mission (per se). It is the elimination of a threat to Israel; a self-proclaimed Jihadist that has openly declared itself in an armed struggle with Israel and has demonstrated its ability to carry-out that threat. The elimination of this threat is a defensive mission that adds to the protection of the nation and its people. It does not matter the method of operation or the source of the plan; it is a defensive operation no matter what activity carries it out (IDF, AMAN, or the Shin Bet).

Most Respectfully,
R

So if Israel has information of even a "perceived attack" its defending itself.

In that case, since Israel has the Palestinians in Gaza fenced in and their life's are under the goodness of Israel to let supplies in or to even leave the open air prison (which they are being kept against their will and without being found quilty of any crime) ,

any attack Hamas would do on Israel is always a defense attack, to set their civilians free so as to maintain their life, safety, and freedom.

That also goes for the West Bank, when the Israelis come onto their property, they are merely defending their home and life's.

First the only reason they cant leave is because hamas controls the crossings, so it is their own holding them illegally

WRONG as they will use an illegal weapon that is not defensive by nature. If they wanted to set their people free they could just open the crossings from the gaza side.

Read the Geneva conventions on law and order in occupied territories to see just what Israel has to do. Attacking an unarmed mother and her children in the street is not defence, it is terrorist violence and they should be shot on sight for doing so

 

[Shusha]

Palestinian principles as defined in the Hamas Charter:
Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

Oh, I'm aware of the Hamas Charter and the goal of Hamas. And in my world, the intent to destroy a nation makes actions by that nation defensive in nature, without question. Just as any intent and action on Israel's part to destroy Gaza (an intent clearly contrary to the evidence), would make Hamas' actions defensive.

The only reasonable goal is two nations. Since Gaza and Israel both have that already -- in the form of self-government and a defined territory -- any actions to increase the size of governed territory by force is offensive in nature.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course that is a BS answer. Why can't the come and go by sea. Israel has no border there.

Well, there is a maritime border between Gaza and Israel, just as there is a maritime border between Canada and the US.

And, of course, its more complicated than the Canada/US border because of the conflict.

BUT, my point was that Gaza is not a prison. Its a misuse of the word, in order to demonize Israel. (Notice that no one demonizes Egypt for the same border protection). Israel and Egypt, just like every country in the world, has a right to permit or deny entry into their country.

Well, there is a maritime border between Gaza and Israel,

That is only half an answer. It is true that Gaza waters borders with Israeli and Egyptian waters. However, Gaza waters also border on international waters that are free for all to use.

And so they can leave by that method if they can first prove they are leaving to get away from hamas

 

[P F Tinmore]

RoccoR has it correct when he said: you have to articulate that you know the goal, purpose and objective of the operations

So my question for Team Palestine on this thread is to define the GOAL, particularly with respect to Gaza.

Is the goal a self-governing, self-determining territory with good relations and mutual economic gain with Israel, Egypt and other neighbouring nations?

Is the goal to liberate Palestine? (By "liberate", I mean to dismantle Israel, return all of the territory to Arab Muslim rule, and probably do some significant amount of ethnic cleansing of bad Jews.)

Or is there some other goal?


I'd also like to highlight what Lipush said some pages back: If you think Israel bombing Gaza is morally wrong, but do not see Hamas bombing Israel (rockets) as morally wrong -- you are a hypocrit. If you justify Hamas bombing Israel as a morally permissible defensive action, and you don't justify Israel bombing Gaza as a morally permissible defensive action -- you are a hypocrit -- ESPECIALLY if you acknowledge that the goal of the Palestinians is to dismantle Israel and deny Jewish independence, self-determination and self-government.

You are basing your opinion on the premise that there are two equal sides like the US and Canada, for example. Neither has the right to attack the other. That would be contrary to international law.

Israel occupies Palestine. That scenario is ruled by a different set of laws.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Palestinian principles as defined in the Hamas Charter:
Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

Oh, I'm aware of the Hamas Charter and the goal of Hamas. And in my world, the intent to destroy a nation makes actions by that nation defensive in nature, without question. Just as any intent and action on Israel's part to destroy Gaza (an intent clearly contrary to the evidence), would make Hamas' actions defensive.

The only reasonable goal is two nations. Since Gaza and Israel both have that already -- in the form of self-government and a defined territory -- any actions to increase the size of governed territory by force is offensive in nature.

Palestinians were offered a two State solution with 97% of their demands met.
They said they only want to exterminate Israel,and walked away from the Oslo accord.