Israel & iran

[JStone]

Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews." All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l. And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others. In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption. In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims. The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed. And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."

You are wrong on the dating of the Persian Empire. But right on the shithole it became after the Muslim conquest.

I referred to the persian empire's occupation of Israel, from ca. 538 BCE-332 BCE. Cyrus and Darius, under the Persian empire, were kind to the Jews having ended the Babylonian exile and having permitted construction of the Second Temple

Zoroastrianism and Judaism share the early foundation of monotheism and Cyrus had a friendly view toward the Jews in liberating them from the Babylonian exile and allowing the reconstruction of the Temple.

Incidentally, the Persians referred to Israel as Yehud [not palestine], Aramaic for Judah one of the 12 ancient Jewish Tribes.

It was also strategically beneficial to the Persians to have the Jews as allies given the trade routes that went through Israel.

Cyrus is praised in the Hebrew Bible as the only non-Jewish Messiah for having liberated the Jews from Babylonia

Sharia law requires Zoroastrians to convert to islime or die. Jews, as people of the book, are accorded slightly better rights as dhimmis.

 

[MJB12741]

Everything you have noted here is correct. In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can. Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.

After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith. I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim. And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation. There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths. I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1

"To what land to flee? Whereto shall I go? They exclude me from my family & my clan. My community does not satisfy me, nor those who are the deceitful rulers of the land. How, then, shall I satisfy Thee, Wise Lord?

Translation by Stanley Insler: The Gathas of Zarathustra

One of the few remaining questions of Zoroastrianism I have yet to find the answer to is --- In what land is he at the time this was written & --- to what land did he go?

Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews." All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l. And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others. In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption. In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims. The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed. And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."

I referred to the persian empire's occupation of Israel, from ca. 538 BCE-332 BCE. Cyrus and Darius, under the Persian empire, were kind to the Jews having ended the Babylonian exile and having permitted construction of the Second Temple

Zoroastrianism and Judaism share the early foundation of monotheism and Cyrus had a friendly view toward the Jews in liberating them from the Babylonian exile and allowing the reconstruction of the Temple.

Incidentally, the Persians referred to Israel as Yehud [not palestine], Aramaic for Judah one of the 12 ancient Jewish Tribes.

It was also strategically beneficial to the Persians to have the Jews as allies given the trade routes that went through Israel.

Cyrus is praised in the Hebrew Bible as the only non-Jewish Messiah for having liberated the Jews from Babylonia

Sharia law requires Zoroastrians to convert to islime or die. Jews, as people of the book, are accorded slightly better rights as dhimmis.

 

[JStone]

Everything you have noted here is correct. In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can. Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.

After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith. I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim. And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation. There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths. I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1

"To what land to flee? Whereto shall I go? They exclude me from my family & my clan. My community does not satisfy me, nor those who are the deceitful rulers of the land. How, then, shall I satisfy Thee, Wise Lord?

Translation by Stanley Insler: The Gathas of Zarathustra

One of the few remaining questions of Zoroastrianism I have yet to find the answer to is --- In what land is he at the time this was written & --- to what land did he go?

Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews." All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l. And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others. In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption. In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims. The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed. And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."

Zoroastrianism and Judaism share the early foundation of monotheism and Cyrus had a friendly view toward the Jews in liberating them from the Babylonian exile and allowing the reconstruction of the Temple.

Incidentally, the Persians referred to Israel as Yehud [not palestine], Aramaic for Judah one of the 12 ancient Jewish Tribes.

It was also strategically beneficial to the Persians to have the Jews as allies given the trade routes that went through Israel.

Cyrus is praised in the Hebrew Bible as the only non-Jewish Messiah for having liberated the Jews from Babylonia

Sharia law requires Zoroastrians to convert to islime or die. Jews, as people of the book, are accorded slightly better rights as dhimmis.

It's speculated that Zoroaster and the Jews exiled in Babylonia co-mingled and influenced one anothers' theological doctrines of monotheism.

Scholars believe it was in Babylonia that the Torah was codified and later presented to the Jews who returned to Judah courtesy of Cyrus and Darius. Jew is derived from Judah.

 

[ima]

Easy. Israel does serious and expensive damage to Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs, the sanctions stay in place and Iran cannot afford to rebuild its nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.

No nukes for Iran.

No ME nuclear arms race.

No ME nuclear exchanges.

So they rebuild. Underground. If they're not underground already.

And gas goes to $10 a gallon.

And I'll tell you why that wouldn't work, because if anyone thought it would work, they would have done it already.

If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon. If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities. Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping. If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop. So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

 

[JStone]

So they rebuild. Underground. If they're not underground already.

And gas goes to $10 a gallon.

And I'll tell you why that wouldn't work, because if anyone thought it would work, they would have done it already.

If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon. If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities. Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping. If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop. So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

The brilliant Jews have been kicking the asses of the dumb backward muslimes for 60 years and will do so for another 60 and another 60 still.

Moses Rules. Allah Sucks.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So they rebuild. Underground. If they're not underground already.

And gas goes to $10 a gallon.

And I'll tell you why that wouldn't work, because if anyone thought it would work, they would have done it already.

If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon. If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities. Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping. If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop. So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

Let's be realistic, Iran has been attacking Israel for decades through its Arab proxies, Hamas Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and it is a core value of the regime that Israel has to be destroyed. If Iran had the power to destroy Israel it would have. An Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is an effort to preempt an escalation of Iran's war against Israel by stopping their nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.

 

[JStone]

If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon. If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities. Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping. If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop. So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

Let's be realistic, Iran has been attacking Israel for decades through its Arab proxies, Hamas Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and it is a core value of the regime that Israel has to be destroyed. If Iran had the power to destroy Israel it would have. An Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is an effort to preempt an escalation of Iran's war against Israel by stopping their nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.

US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa

 

[MJB12741]

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history. Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point. In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months. I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus. And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.

Everything you have noted here is correct. In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can. Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.

After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith. I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim. And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation. There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths. I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1

"To what land to flee? Whereto shall I go? They exclude me from my family & my clan. My community does not satisfy me, nor those who are the deceitful rulers of the land. How, then, shall I satisfy Thee, Wise Lord?

Translation by Stanley Insler: The Gathas of Zarathustra

One of the few remaining questions of Zoroastrianism I have yet to find the answer to is --- In what land is he at the time this was written & --- to what land did he go?

Zoroastrianism and Judaism share the early foundation of monotheism and Cyrus had a friendly view toward the Jews in liberating them from the Babylonian exile and allowing the reconstruction of the Temple.

Incidentally, the Persians referred to Israel as Yehud [not palestine], Aramaic for Judah one of the 12 ancient Jewish Tribes.

It was also strategically beneficial to the Persians to have the Jews as allies given the trade routes that went through Israel.

Cyrus is praised in the Hebrew Bible as the only non-Jewish Messiah for having liberated the Jews from Babylonia

Sharia law requires Zoroastrians to convert to islime or die. Jews, as people of the book, are accorded slightly better rights as dhimmis.

It's speculated that Zoroaster and the Jews exiled in Babylonia co-mingled and influenced one anothers' theological doctrines of monotheism.

Scholars believe it was in Babylonia that the Torah was codified and later presented to the Jews who returned to Judah courtesy of Cyrus and Darius. Jew is derived from Judah.

 

[JStone]

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history. Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point. In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months. I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus. And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.

Everything you have noted here is correct. In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can. Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.

After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith. I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim. And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation. There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths. I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1

"To what land to flee? Whereto shall I go? They exclude me from my family & my clan. My community does not satisfy me, nor those who are the deceitful rulers of the land. How, then, shall I satisfy Thee, Wise Lord?

Translation by Stanley Insler: The Gathas of Zarathustra

One of the few remaining questions of Zoroastrianism I have yet to find the answer to is --- In what land is he at the time this was written & --- to what land did he go?

It's speculated that Zoroaster and the Jews exiled in Babylonia co-mingled and influenced one anothers' theological doctrines of monotheism.

Scholars believe it was in Babylonia that the Torah was codified and later presented to the Jews who returned to Judah courtesy of Cyrus and Darius. Jew is derived from Judah.

Scholars suggest the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in the first century CE was the turning point in Judaism as it ushered in the period of Rabbinic Judaism and the Mishnah and Talmud that represent Judaism, today.

With the destruction of the Temple, the central place of worship, the Jewish community established synagogues to replace the Temple.

Additionally, the Yeshiva academy of Jewish learning, the model for the European academic system, was established as a consequence of the destruction of the Temple as key figures such as Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakkai foresaw the need to no longer rely on the Temple for the furtherance of Jewish thought and teachings.

Ironically, it was the Roman Emperor Vespasian, whose son Titus led the destruction of the Temple, who permitted Rabbi Zakkai to build the Yeshiva.

 

[MJB12741]

I doubt that Vespasian was any friend of the Jews, although certainly not their worst enemy. It was he, the Roman general, who Emperor Nero appointed to crush the Jewish rebellion at Masada.

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history. Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point. In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months. I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus. And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.

It's speculated that Zoroaster and the Jews exiled in Babylonia co-mingled and influenced one anothers' theological doctrines of monotheism.

Scholars believe it was in Babylonia that the Torah was codified and later presented to the Jews who returned to Judah courtesy of Cyrus and Darius. Jew is derived from Judah.

Scholars suggest the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in the first century CE was the turning point in Judaism as it ushered in the period of Rabbinic Judaism and the Mishnah and Talmud that represent Judaism, today.

With the destruction of the Temple, the central place of worship, the Jewish community established synagogues to replace the Temple.

Additionally, the Yeshiva academy of Jewish learning, the model for the European academic system, was established as a consequence of the destruction of the Temple as key figures such as Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakkai foresaw the need to no longer rely on the Temple for the furtherance of Jewish thought and teachings.

Ironically, it was the Roman Emperor Vespasian, whose son Titus led the destruction of the Temple, who permitted Rabbi Zakkai to build the Yeshiva.

 

[JStone]

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history. Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point. In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months. I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus. And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.

The Tanakh holds the answer in praising Cyrus as a Messiah, the only non-Jew accorded Messianic stature, for having liberated the Jews from exile in Babylonia and permitting the reconstitution of the Jewish community in Judah, which was the southern part of the Davidic Kingdom. Many of the exiled Jews became complacent with their rather good lives in Babylonia and had the exile not ended under the Persians, they might well have become assimmilated into pagan Babylonian society which would have impacted on the continuation of the Jewish community

 

[MJB12741]

Yes, that is how I too see it. I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear. Nice to meet you here.

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history. Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point. In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months. I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus. And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.

The Tanakh holds the answer in praising Cyrus as a Messiah, the only non-Jew accorded Messianic stature, for having liberated the Jews from exile in Babylonia and permitting the reconstitution of the Jewish community in Judah, which was the southern part of the Davidic Kingdom. Many of the exiled Jews became complacent with their rather good lives in Babylonia and had the exile not ended under the Persians, they might well have become assimmilated into pagan Babylonian society which would have impacted on the continuation of the Jewish community

 

[JStone]

I doubt that Vespasian was any friend of the Jews, although certainly not their worst enemy. It was he, the Roman general, who Emperor Nero appointed to crush the Jewish rebellion at Masada.

Jewish tradition holds an interesting anecdote, that Rabbi ben Zakkai, fearing the destruction of the Temple and the dispersion of the Jewish community as he was hold up in Jerusalem during the first Roman war, orchestrated the faking of his death to enable his departure from Jerusalem.

Rabbi ben Zakkai's plan was to meet with Vespasian who at the time was the General of the Roman military under Nero. Rabbi ben Zakkai was successful in meeting with Vespasian who was intrigued with his cleverness in arranging for the meeting. Rabbi ben Zakkai informed Vespasian that he had a vision of Vespasian being elevated to Emperor. The Rabbi struck a deal with Vespasian that if he did indeed become Emperor that Vespasian would permit the construction of the Yeshiva in Yabne, Israel.

Nero committed suicide and Vespasian did become Emperor. Vespasian, in gratitude, granted Rabbi ben Zakkai permission to construct the Yeshiva academy.

Now, Rabbi ben Zakkai didn't really have a vision of Vespasian's promotion to Emperor. He was, however, very smart and foresaw Nero's downfall, combined with Vespasian's military successes, leading to Vespasian's becoming Emperor

 

[JStone]

Yes, that is how I too see it. I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear. Nice to meet you here.

Historian Bernard Lewis

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.

 

[MJB12741]

Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.

 

[JStone]

Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.

Genesis 12 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed

 

[ima]

If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon. If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities. Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping. If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop. So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

Let's be realistic, Iran has been attacking Israel for decades through its Arab proxies, Hamas Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and it is a core value of the regime that Israel has to be destroyed. If Iran had the power to destroy Israel it would have. An Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is an effort to preempt an escalation of Iran's war against Israel by stopping their nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.

A valiant effort perhaps, but it's not going to work.

 

[JStone]

Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.

Let's be realistic, Iran has been attacking Israel for decades through its Arab proxies, Hamas Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and it is a core value of the regime that Israel has to be destroyed. If Iran had the power to destroy Israel it would have. An Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is an effort to preempt an escalation of Iran's war against Israel by stopping their nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.

A valiant effort perhaps, but it's not going to work.

muslimes are a peaceful people

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
300 US Marines killed in Beirut

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.

Genesis 12 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed

I love my Jews

 

[MJB12741]

Lots to admire about the Jews. So small in numbers & yet so large in contributions to the entire world. And oh, how I love those Jewish delis.