Israel's Apartheid Laws

[Lipush]

Zionist's version of reality and truth; are light years from reality and truth.

Unlike Terrorists muslims, which their view makes SO MUCH SENSE!

Sorry Lips, but Sunni isn't a terrorist, but you are a zionist. Please try again.

I wasn't talking about Sunni personally.

I know terrorists who plan to set bombs (usually) don't spend time on computer chats.

 

[Hossfly]

No, you simply live in a tiny box that is waaay to tiny.

Some right wing Israelis are pure realistic. Not all are "Baruch Goldsteins"

Realistic my ass! You can't even deal with the article I just posted, that say's right there you want no part of reality. You just live in this make believe, pollyanna world where you make up what you want to be real. Like me in a tiny box. Which has nothing to do with anything. This isn't about me. I didn't write the article. BTW, the source of the report is jewish. Written by jews living in Israel. It's pretty common sense to assume that they would know what's going on in their own country. But you dismiss that and act like they don't. Then turn right around and try to talk to me about what is real.

First of all, WHY are you so angry? wer'e debating, no need to bite my head off.

Second, i did respond to your points, fact that you didn't like my point of view doesn't mean I didn't.

Most of the Israeli laws regarding immigration are more then logical. They exist all over the world.

I didn't dismiss your sources, but I simply don't see them as bad as you do.

But then again, what is exactly that you expect from people who have a total enemy community live inside them?

I really don't understand how can someone that probebly knows nothing about living in such condition, to critisize.

No offense.

Loinboy ain't got no couth nohow.

 

[Billo_Really]

First of all, WHY are you so angry? wer'e debating, no need to bite my head off.

Fair enough. But you did put me in a "tiny box". Was I supposed to take that as a compliment?

I'll tell you why I'm angry. I don't see how anyone can be indifferent to what happened to the Palestinain's in Hebron. Even the IDF running around like the Gestapo, doesn't raise an eyebrow. I would think, at the very minimum, that anyone having any sense of humanity at all, would read that story and think, "Hey, that's just wrong!" But we didn't get that. All we got was crickets.

Second, i did respond to your points, fact that you didn't like my point of view doesn't mean I didn't.

No you didn't. You talked about someone getting real and me and my box. You said nothing of the atrocities being inflicted on the Palestinian's by the Israeli's.

Most of the Israeli laws regarding immigration are more then logical. They exist all over the world.

I have no clue what this has to do with what we're talking about. Settlers are not immigrants, they're insurgents illegally in a place that is not their country and they're committing violence against people indigenous to the area.

I didn't dismiss your sources, but I simply don't see them as bad as you do.

You don't consider settlers attacking Palestinian's with impunity, a bad thing? You don't think random detentions, house seizures, freedom of movement so restricted, that people have died in an ambulances while the drivers were waiting to get authorization to cross checkpoints. You don't consider that bad?

But then again, what is exactly that you expect from people who have a total enemy community live inside them?

Let's get one thing straight, we're talking about an area Israel has no legal right to be. This is not Israel's community. It's the Palestinian's. Israel's presence there, is illegal. But you probably don't consider that bad, either.

I really don't understand how can someone that probebly knows nothing about living in such condition, to critisize.

That's why I used the comments from people who are there. This is the second time I've had to say this, "I didn't write the article". Jews in Israel did.

No offense.

None taken. I guess I'll go back to my box now.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqZb52sgpU&ob=av2e]Alice In Chains - Man In The Box - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Lipush]

First of all, WHY are you so angry? wer'e debating, no need to bite my head off.

Fair enough. But you did put me in a "tiny box". Was I supposed to take that as a compliment?

I'll tell you why I'm angry. I don't see how anyone can be indifferent to what happened to the Palestinain's in Hebron. Even the IDF running around like the Gestapo, doesn't raise an eyebrow. I would think, at the very minimum, that anyone having any sense of humanity at all, would read that story and think, "Hey, that's just wrong!" But we didn't get that. All we got was crickets.

Second, i did respond to your points, fact that you didn't like my point of view doesn't mean I didn't.

No you didn't. You talked about someone getting real and me and my box. You said nothing of the atrocities being inflicted on the Palestinian's by the Israeli's.

I have no clue what this has to do with what we're talking about. Settlers are not immigrants, they're insurgents illegally in a place that is not their country and they're committing violence against people indigenous to the area.

You don't consider settlers attacking Palestinian's with impunity, a bad thing? You don't think random detentions, house seizures, freedom of movement so restricted, that people have died in an ambulances while the drivers were waiting to get authorization to cross checkpoints. You don't consider that bad?

Let's get one thing straight, we're talking about an area Israel has no legal right to be. This is not Israel's community. It's the Palestinian's. Israel's presence there, is illegal. But you probably don't consider that bad, either.

I really don't understand how can someone that probebly knows nothing about living in such condition, to critisize.

That's why I used the comments from people who are there. This is the second time I've had to say this, "I didn't write the article". Jews in Israel did.

No offense.

None taken. I guess I'll go back to my box now.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqZb52sgpU&ob=av2e]Alice In Chains - Man In The Box - YouTube[/ame]

1. Ok, the "tiny box" meraphore was not in order to offend you, just trying to say that you shoult try and understand why things get done from the Israeli side before waving it off as something which is wrong from looking at all sides.

2. The Hebron case is complicated, I am not that familiar with the issue of Hebron, just that every now and then we hear about clashes between Jews and Arabs. The soldiers are there to try and prevent those clashes. More often the soldiers arrest Jews then they do Arabs, lately.

3. The Israeli government is very hypocritical when concerning the settlers. Look at Gush Katif and Yamit. The previous governments spended millions of shekels to put the settlers there, in order to kick them out later. Seeing that was heart breaking, really. I think that whoever the big boss deciding anything concerning the settlers, should decide once and for all. Either you allow settlers to stay in Judea and Samaria and declair it's part of Israel, or that they evacuate them all for the Palestinians to stay. But they need to decide already. Because pretending that they are brave patriotic Jews and should be there, only to afterwards kick them out, is not fair. not to them, not to the 'Palstinians', and not to the Israelis who are left confused to what the hell's the main policy here. people should decide. That's the thing, that nobody want's to decide anything in the area. annoying.

4. I consider any innocent harmed in the area as a bad thing. I know some bigoted settlers somtimes harrass Arab farmers there, in the real cases (because some of those have been staged). When it is happening for real, of course it's wrong. farmers do no harm to anyone.

But just as the same i will condemn the case of the Palestinian killing the Jewish boy with an axe. The case of Shalhevet Pass? Barbaric!

Surely there is no wrong there, right?

5. You may have not written the article, but you do make an opinion that is based on a verry narrow kind of knowledge.

 

[ima]

Unlike Terrorists muslims, which their view makes SO MUCH SENSE!

Sorry Lips, but Sunni isn't a terrorist, but you are a zionist. Please try again.

I wasn't talking about Sunni personally.

I know terrorists who plan to set bombs (usually) don't spend time on computer chats.

You know terrorists who are planning a bombing? And you don't turn them in?
No star of david medal for you!

 

[Lipush]

Sorry Lips, but Sunni isn't a terrorist, but you are a zionist. Please try again.

I wasn't talking about Sunni personally.

I know terrorists who plan to set bombs (usually) don't spend time on computer chats.

You know terrorists who are planning a bombing? And you don't turn them in?
No star of david medal for you!

bummer

 

[Billo_Really]

1. Ok, the "tiny box" meraphore was not in order to offend you, just trying to say that you shoult try and understand why things get done from the Israeli side before waving it off as something which is wrong from looking at all sides.

What makes you think I don't? But there are some issues where you can look at the Israeli side until the cows come home and it doesn't change the conclusion. Like the occupation itself. It is illegal. It's been illegal for the last 45 years. The only solution in this situation is for Israel to end it. That land isn't theirs and it will never be their's. In 45 years, not a single country on this planet has recognized their right to that land.

2. The Hebron case is complicated, I am not that familiar with the issue of Hebron, just that every now and then we hear about clashes between Jews and Arabs. The soldiers are there to try and prevent those clashes. More often the soldiers arrest Jews then they do Arabs, lately.

Actually, it's the opposite. And it's the opposite in large numbers. 410 Palestinian's homes were bulldozed to the ground in that area, as opposed to only 10 settlers homes. Some homes were bulldozed on only a half-hours notice. What Israeli side am I missing here? You can say, "well, they didn't have the permit to build that extra room". I would say, "bulldozing down a house because they couldn't get a building permit the Israeli's refused to give them, is a little excessive".

3. The Israeli government is very hypocritical when concerning the settlers. Look at Gush Katif and Yamit. The previous governments spended millions of shekels to put the settlers there, in order to kick them out later. Seeing that was heart breaking, really. I think that whoever the big boss deciding anything concerning the settlers, should decide once and for all. Either you allow settlers to stay in Judea and Samaria and declair it's part of Israel, or that they evacuate them all for the Palestinians to stay. But they need to decide already. Because pretending that they are brave patriotic Jews and should be there, only to afterwards kick them out, is not fair. not to them, not to the 'Palstinians', and not to the Israelis who are left confused to what the hell's the main policy here. people should decide. That's the thing, that nobody want's to decide anything in the area. annoying.

They have to go. The Israeli government, that is. It is illegal to change the demographics of an area under occupation. If Israeli citizens want to live there, they can apply for visa's, just like any other alien in a foreign country.

4. I consider any innocent harmed in the area as a bad thing. I know some bigoted settlers somtimes harrass Arab farmers there, in the real cases (because some of those have been staged). When it is happening for real, of course it's wrong. farmers do no harm to anyone.

I prefer to think of the settlers as jewish insurgents. It's a better definition of who they really are.

But just as the same i will condemn the case of the Palestinian killing the Jewish boy with an axe. The case of Shalhevet Pass? Barbaric!

I condemn it as well. But we have a certain disconnect of scale here. For every one jewish kid murdered, you have a thousand Palestinian kids die as a result of Israeli policies.

Surely there is no wrong there, right?

No, there's wrong there. But there's much more wrong committed by the Israeli's, than there is by the Palestinian's. As long as the Israeli's are the occupiers, they are the aggressor's and bear the brunt of the responsibility for what happens in that area.

5. You may have not written the article, but you do make an opinion that is based on a verry narrow kind of knowledge.

How is it narrow? I've read several articles from many different sources all on this subject. How is that narrow? And these articles are not just some op-ed in the NYT, these are from jewish human rights groups in Israel that are seeing this first hand. Like Rabbi's for Human Rights or Jewish Voice for Peace. Other articles are from Amnesty International or the ICRC. How is that narrow? How can all these un-related organizations, write about the same topic and all come to the same conclusion?

There are so many Israeli kiss-asses out there, they get way to much benefit of the doubt.

 

[Lipush]

1. Ok, the "tiny box" meraphore was not in order to offend you, just trying to say that you shoult try and understand why things get done from the Israeli side before waving it off as something which is wrong from looking at all sides.

What makes you think I don't? But there are some issues where you can look at the Israeli side until the cows come home and it doesn't change the conclusion. Like the occupation itself. It is illegal. It's been illegal for the last 45 years. The only solution in this situation is for Israel to end it. That land isn't theirs and it will never be their's. In 45 years, not a single country on this planet has recognized their right to that land.

2. The Hebron case is complicated, I am not that familiar with the issue of Hebron, just that every now and then we hear about clashes between Jews and Arabs. The soldiers are there to try and prevent those clashes. More often the soldiers arrest Jews then they do Arabs, lately.

Actually, it's the opposite. And it's the opposite in large numbers. 410 Palestinian's homes were bulldozed to the ground in that area, as opposed to only 10 settlers homes. Some homes were bulldozed on only a half-hours notice. What Israeli side am I missing here? You can say, "well, they didn't have the permit to build that extra room". I would say, "bulldozing down a house because they couldn't get a building permit the Israeli's refused to give them, is a little excessive".

They have to go. The Israeli government, that is. It is illegal to change the demographics of an area under occupation. If Israeli citizens want to live there, they can apply for visa's, just like any other alien in a foreign country.

I prefer to think of the settlers as jewish insurgents. It's a better definition of who they really are.

I condemn it as well. But we have a certain disconnect of scale here. For every one jewish kid murdered, you have a thousand Palestinian kids die as a result of Israeli policies.

Surely there is no wrong there, right?

No, there's wrong there. But there's much more wrong committed by the Israeli's, than there is by the Palestinian's. As long as the Israeli's are the occupiers, they are the aggressor's and bear the brunt of the responsibility for what happens in that area.

5. You may have not written the article, but you do make an opinion that is based on a verry narrow kind of knowledge.

How is it narrow? I've read several articles from many different sources all on this subject. How is that narrow? And these articles are not just some op-ed in the NYT, these are from jewish human rights groups in Israel that are seeing this first hand. Like Rabbi's for Human Rights or Jewish Voice for Peace. Other articles are from Amnesty International or the ICRC. How is that narrow? How can all these un-related organizations, write about the same topic and all come to the same conclusion?

There are so many Israeli kiss-asses out there, they get way to much benefit of the doubt.

1. Ok, when we talk about the 'occupation' we talk only about the area that people call the west bank, Judea and Samaria.

It is a well known mistake to think about it as an occupied land. But occupied from whom? Jordan? why Jordan never claimed that land? for which OFFICIAL state the Israeli government took this land by force? none, that is.

There is no official "Palestine" in field, so how can people say we "took the land by force"? That is what I don't get. Israel gained that land only because Jordan, which took this land by force in 48, lost it.

Right now it's "undefined" piece of land. undefined is not occupied. that is why we need a policy that decides exactly what to do there. If it's Israel, FINE. If it's not, FINE. but don't dcrew up the people mind anymore.

"what Israeli side am I missing here". you ask. I will again take you back to the horrible year that was 2005. thousands of Jews were expelled from their houses because some delluded leader thought it will bring peace. did it? 2 weeks after there was a terror attack, not long after the rockets showers on south Israel began to reach a new range (being launched from the SAME lands Israel gave back). So taking MORE Jews out will be better? there is a limit to how you can mock the Israeli mind. Many Jews have learned to never again give up anymore land, because not only it brings nothing GOOD, it makes the situation worse and more Israelis die. THAT is the main "Israeli side" you miss here.

2. As for Hebron, the same thing. the Bulldozing of Palestinian houses happen only in case of terror attack involvement. Can you please give me a link of a Palestinian house being destroyed in the last time period that was not because of involvement of terror?

3. The scale is explained by many reasons. Palestinians in Gaza don't have shelters. Palestinians in Gaza don't separate an Islamic Jihad soldier from a Palestinian toddler. Palestinians say THEMSELVES that "they cherish death" in the same way the Yahud "cherish life". They Use their women and children as human shields. They send minors to be suicide bombers. they tell mothers of young boys that their children being bomed with Jews will grant them paradise.

So you expect the scale of deaths being the same?

It is not at all surprising.

4. Children dying is always horrible, i don't really care of what is more. that should not happen on any case. I truely think that Palestinians don't appriciate their children. or else they would not have brainwashed them thatr killing Jews brings them to heaven. That's just awful. Because that Israel is the "stronger" and the "occupier" it is expected to have higher morals. that's logical. but when the other side have no morals at all, what do you do?

Not to long ag, few weeks ago, we have heard about a tragedy in Rehovot. Central Israel. A Jewish woman lost her husband and 5 children in a fire. the father tried to save the children from the burning apartment and died with them, the wife's screams were filmed and showed all over the news, when realizing that her entire family was lost, just few nights before Passover.

tragic.

sad.

What was more sad, though, was to go on Palestinian websites and see them cheer and laugh with eachother, gloating the event and asking why didn't the wife and other "filthy Jews" died as well. Not even ONE stopped and thought and said, "wait, it's wrong".

Is that the kind of people Israel is expected to have peace with? I wonder.

What is to hold people to act in the smae way toward and enemy who has no morals.? If it was a psychology class I could have babbled on this question for HOURS

5. How is it narrow? Let me tell you.

In the last rocket round in south Israel, nearly 200 rockets have been launched on Israeli civilians (no one mentioned war crime there, take note. it's war crime only when Israel acts in Gaza. when million innocent Israelis are under fire? nothing wrong there) in 3 DAYS only. Do the math. Imagine each two hours you have missiles falling down in your neighborhood. The round began in IDF killing the man who was responsible of killing 8 Israelis in the terror attack near Eilat, and planned a future attack, similar to the one that occured, in the approaching passover. in reaction the middiles attack started, then the IDF went reacting to them, too. 90% of Palestinian death in that round, were terrorists.

While southern Israelis were left in their shelters, afraid to go out because missiles were falling ALL the time, children didn't go to school, parents didn't go to work, restautants were closed, shooping centers deserted, the homefront worked extra and they were all under emergency situation, while all that happenes, imagine what happenes an hour driving from the burning south. citizens of tel Aviv partying, celebrating (it was the Purim holiday0 drinking and completely forgetting that just 60 Kilometers from where they live, their own brothers are being bombed. some even went out, yelling and cursing the IDF who simply defended the southerners.

Those peace activists who wrote those articles? almost all of them are people who live in Tel Aviv or the places nearby, less then 10% of them ever been in any bombed Israeli area of ever listened to thecivilians under attack.

In the Israeli daylife, the south is the soft stomach. It is also the area that nobody cares about. so when those people who write those things are cluless THEMSELVES about what's happening to their own brothers, those who rely on their narrow knowledge get comfused as well.

I would have liked to see those peace activists and human rights activists, just ONCE, doing something for the southerners.

 

[docmauser1]

I'll tell you why I'm angry.

Palistanians and their cheerleading crowd being always angry is eons-old news. Do we really need to know?

I don't see how anyone can be indifferent to what happened to the Palestinain's in Hebron.

Nothing happened to palistanians in Hebron, according to our MIA guru P. F. Tinmore there're no palistanians in Hebron - they're in al-khalil.

Settlers are not immigrants, they're insurgents illegally in a place that is not their country and they're committing violence against people indigenous to the area.

That's what palistanian settlers do!

 

[ima]

There, much better with the doc on ignore. Sorry doc, I've yet to see an intelligent remark from you. Ever.

 

[docmauser1]

There, much better with the doc on ignore. Sorry doc, I've yet to see an intelligent remark from you. Ever.

Very philistine contention, of course.

 

[Billo_Really]

1. Ok, when we talk about the 'occupation' we talk only about the area that people call the west bank, Judea and Samaria.

It is a well known mistake to think about it as an occupied land. But occupied from whom? Jordan? why Jordan never claimed that land? for which OFFICIAL state the Israeli government took this land by force? none, that is.

There is no official "Palestine" in field, so how can people say we "took the land by force"? That is what I don't get. Israel gained that land only because Jordan, which took this land by force in 48, lost it.

Right now it's "undefined" piece of land. undefined is not occupied. that is why we need a policy that decides exactly what to do there. If it's Israel, FINE. If it's not, FINE. but don't dcrew up the people mind anymore.

No, this is not an un-defined area. It is clearly defined and has been for decades. This is an "occupation" and nothing you can say, can spin that in anything else.

Here's the area from a legal standpoint, not your opinionated one...

Settlements, settler violence and the lack of law enforcement:

» A root cause of the phenomenon is Israel’s decades-long policy of facilitating and encouraging the settling of its citizens inside occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), defined as transfer of population and prohibited by international humanitarian law (IHL).

» Under IHL and international human rights law, Israel is responsible for ensuring public order and safety and protecting the civilian population in the occupied territory. As the occupying force in the West Bank, responsibility for implementing this obligation falls to the IDF.

» In spite of clearly defined legal responsibilities and some recent efforts undertaken by the IDF and Israeli police, the relevant Israeli authorities have failed to adequately enforce the rule of law when it comes to Israeli settlers carrying out acts of violence against Palestinians and their property in the West Bank. For example, according to the Israeli human rights group Yesh Din, over 90% of investigations into settler violence are closed without an indictment being filed. By contrast, when Israeli civilians are the target of Palestinian violence, the IDF actively pursues Palestinian suspects; thousands of Palestinians are arrested and prosecuted through Israel’s military court system each year.

90% are closed without indictments. Israeli's have absolutely no respect for the law and for that, they can go to hell.

"what Israeli side am I missing here". you ask. I will again take you back to the horrible year that was 2005. thousands of Jews were expelled from their houses because some delluded leader thought it will bring peace. did it? 2 weeks after there was a terror attack, not long after the rockets showers on south Israel began to reach a new range (being launched from the SAME lands Israel gave back). So taking MORE Jews out will be better? there is a limit to how you can mock the Israeli mind. Many Jews have learned to never again give up anymore land, because not only it brings nothing GOOD, it makes the situation worse and more Israelis die. THAT is the main "Israeli side" you miss here.

Are you talking about the evacuation from Gaza? Let me tell you something, because you can't give, what you don't have. And Israel does not have that land. It is not theirs to give. They need to just leave.

2. As for Hebron, the same thing. the Bulldozing of Palestinian houses happen only in case of terror attack involvement. Can you please give me a link of a Palestinian house being destroyed in the last time period that was not because of involvement of terror?

How does a house get involved in terror? Palestinian's firing rockets into the OPT is not terrorism. Using indescriminate weapons is a war crime, but a military response from the Palestinian's, should be treated as "self-defense".

Here's a few statistics for you...

3. The scale is explained by many reasons. Palestinians in Gaza don't have shelters. Palestinians in Gaza don't separate an Islamic Jihad soldier from a Palestinian toddler. Palestinians say THEMSELVES that "they cherish death" in the same way the Yahud "cherish life". They Use their women and children as human shields. They send minors to be suicide bombers. they tell mothers of young boys that their children being bomed with Jews will grant them paradise.

Fuck you and that bullshit! They're no different than any other parents. You need to demonize them so you can feel better about the tyranny you inflict on them on a daily basis.

4. Children dying is always horrible, i don't really care of what is more. that should not happen on any case. I truely think that Palestinians don't appriciate their children. or else they would not have brainwashed them thatr killing Jews brings them to heaven. That's just awful. Because that Israel is the "stronger" and the "occupier" it is expected to have higher morals. that's logical. but when the other side have no morals at all, what do you do?

So now you do refer to them as the "occupier". First you infer they're not, now you say they are. I think you need to look up what an "occupation" is, because it's a pretty specific thing with certain requirements the occupying force must adhere to.

Is that the kind of people Israel is expected to have peace with? I wonder.

You're looking in the wrong direction, because the entire world say's you're the problem.

Over the course of its prolonged military occupation, Israel has facilitated and encouraged the settling of nearly 470,000 Israelis into the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), resulting in the takeover of Palestinian land, natural resources and transportation routes. This transfer of citizens into occupied territory is strictly prohibited under international humanitarian law (IHL). In 2004, the International Court of Justice concluded that Israeli settlements in the oPt are in breach of international law, while Israel’s settlement activity has been condemned by the UN Security Council.

The whole world condemns Israeli actions in this area and all you wanna do is talk about the Palestinian's.

What is to hold people to act in the smae way toward and enemy who has no morals.?

Don't talk about other peoples morals after the shit you just got done saying about their parents and children.

5. How is it narrow? Let me tell you.

In the last rocket round in south Israel, nearly 200 rockets have been launched on Israeli civilians (no one mentioned war crime there, take note. it's war crime only when Israel acts in Gaza. when million innocent Israelis are under fire? nothing wrong there) in 3 DAYS only. Do the math. Imagine each two hours you have missiles falling down in your neighborhood. The round began in IDF killing the man who was responsible of killing 8 Israelis in the terror attack near Eilat, and planned a future attack, similar to the one that occured, in the approaching passover. in reaction the middiles attack started, then the IDF went reacting to them, too. 90% of Palestinian death in that round, were terrorists.

They're always terrorists.

You give me a story, now I have one for you...

Khaled Daud Faqih was just six months old when he died on 8 March 2007 at an Israeli army checkpoint. His parents, from the village of Kafr ‘Ain, had been trying to rush their baby to the nearby hospital in Ramallah in theWest Bank, but were forced to wait at the checkpoint by Israeli soldiers. His father Daud, a teacher, told Amnesty International:

“My son Khaled was having difficulty breathing. I called a neighbour who has a car and with my wife and the baby we set off immediately for the hospital in Ramallah. It was quicker than waiting for an ambulance to come all the way to the village. It was just before half past midnight. Khaled had previously had attacks like this and we took him to hospital and there he was put under the oxygen tent and he always got better.

“We arrived at the Atara checkpoint at 12.45am. From there it was another 10 minutes to the hospital. The soldiers stopped us. There were five soldiers. I told them that my baby was sick and urgently needed to get to the hospital in Ramallah. I spoke to them in Hebrew. They asked for our IDs. The driver and I gave ours but my wife had left hers at home in the hurry. I told the soldiers and they said we could not pass without her ID. I begged them to let us pass. They looked in the car and saw that there was nothing and that the baby had problems breathing and his limbs were trembling. I told the soldiers that every minute, every second mattered; that the baby needed oxygen urgently. They told us to wait and I kept pleading with them. Then the baby died. It was 1.05am. I told the soldiers. They shone a torch into the car and saw that the baby was not moving any more and told us that we could pass. We drove to the hospital anyway. There it was confirmed that Khaled had died.”

BTW, that same attitude the soldiers had at the checkpoint, I can see in your posts. That's why you have to demonize the Palestinian's. Because what you're doing is so evil, it goes way beyond description.

Those peace activists who wrote those articles? almost all of them are people who live in Tel Aviv or the places nearby, less then 10% of them ever been in any bombed Israeli area of ever listened to thecivilians under attack.

No, they've listened to citizens under attack. Palestinian citizens. That's why you feel the need to discredit them. They don't tow the Likud Party line.

In the Israeli daylife, the south is the soft stomach. It is also the area that nobody cares about. so when those people who write those things are cluless THEMSELVES about what's happening to their own brothers, those who rely on their narrow knowledge get comfused as well.

You're projecting. And you're also jumping through hoops to defend inhuman acts by the Israeli's.

I would have liked to see those peace activists and human rights activists, just ONCE, doing something for the southerners.

I end this with another story on Israeli bullshit.

BLOCKED AT EVERY TURN

‘Adel ‘Omar, aged 21, died on 17 February 2007 after Israeli soldiers delayed his passage at the gate between the village of Azzun ‘Atmeh and the nearby town of Qalqilya. ‘Adel ‘Omar had been injured in a tractor accident. The village is surrounded by the fence/wall, and the only way out of it is through a gate which closes at 10pm. ‘Adel arrived at the checkpoint after 10pm and the soldiers did not open the gate for over an hour. He was still alive when he was allowed to pass, but died before he reached the hospital, only a few kilometres from the gate.

Such deaths are not a new phenomenon. Rula ‘Ashtiya, for example, was forced to give birth on the ground, on a dirt road by the Beit Furik checkpoint, after Israeli soldiers refused to allow her through the checkpoint in the early morning of 26 August 2003. Her baby girl died soon after. Rula was in labour and was on her way to Nablus hospital, only a few minutes away. The soldiers manning the checkpoint took no notice of her condition and obvious distress, not of her husband’s pleading. They did not ask to check their IDs and simply told them they could not pass. Only after Rula had given birth and her baby had died did the soldiers allow her and her husband and their dead baby to pass through the checkpoint.

Fuck Israel!

 

[Lipush]

1. Ok, when we talk about the 'occupation' we talk only about the area that people call the west bank, Judea and Samaria.

It is a well known mistake to think about it as an occupied land. But occupied from whom? Jordan? why Jordan never claimed that land? for which OFFICIAL state the Israeli government took this land by force? none, that is.

There is no official "Palestine" in field, so how can people say we "took the land by force"? That is what I don't get. Israel gained that land only because Jordan, which took this land by force in 48, lost it.

Right now it's "undefined" piece of land. undefined is not occupied. that is why we need a policy that decides exactly what to do there. If it's Israel, FINE. If it's not, FINE. but don't dcrew up the people mind anymore.

No, this is not an un-defined area. It is clearly defined and has been for decades. This is an "occupation" and nothing you can say, can spin that in anything else.

Here's the area from a legal standpoint, not your opinionated one...

Settlements, settler violence and the lack of law enforcement:

» A root cause of the phenomenon is Israel’s decades-long policy of facilitating and encouraging the settling of its citizens inside occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), defined as transfer of population and prohibited by international humanitarian law (IHL).

» Under IHL and international human rights law, Israel is responsible for ensuring public order and safety and protecting the civilian population in the occupied territory. As the occupying force in the West Bank, responsibility for implementing this obligation falls to the IDF.

» In spite of clearly defined legal responsibilities and some recent efforts undertaken by the IDF and Israeli police, the relevant Israeli authorities have failed to adequately enforce the rule of law when it comes to Israeli settlers carrying out acts of violence against Palestinians and their property in the West Bank. For example, according to the Israeli human rights group Yesh Din, over 90% of investigations into settler violence are closed without an indictment being filed. By contrast, when Israeli civilians are the target of Palestinian violence, the IDF actively pursues Palestinian suspects; thousands of Palestinians are arrested and prosecuted through Israel’s military court system each year.

90% are closed without indictments. Israeli's have absolutely no respect for the law and for that, they can go to hell.

Are you talking about the evacuation from Gaza? Let me tell you something, because you can't give, what you don't have. And Israel does not have that land. It is not theirs to give. They need to just leave.


How does a house get involved in terror? Palestinian's firing rockets into the OPT is not terrorism. Using indescriminate weapons is a war crime, but a military response from the Palestinian's, should be treated as "self-defense".

Here's a few statistics for you...




Fuck you and that bullshit! They're no different than any other parents. You need to demonize them so you can feel better about the tyranny you inflict on them on a daily basis.


So now you do refer to them as the "occupier". First you infer they're not, now you say they are. I think you need to look up what an "occupation" is, because it's a pretty specific thing with certain requirements the occupying force must adhere to.


You're looking in the wrong direction, because the entire world say's you're the problem.

The whole world condemns Israeli actions in this area and all you wanna do is talk about the Palestinian's.

Don't talk about other peoples morals after the shit you just got done saying about their parents and children.

They're always terrorists.

You give me a story, now I have one for you...

BTW, that same attitude the soldiers had at the checkpoint, I can see in your posts. That's why you have to demonize the Palestinian's. Because what you're doing is so evil, it goes way beyond description.

No, they've listened to citizens under attack. Palestinian citizens. That's why you feel the need to discredit them. They don't tow the Likud Party line.

You're projecting. And you're also jumping through hoops to defend inhuman acts by the Israeli's.

I would have liked to see those peace activists and human rights activists, just ONCE, doing something for the southerners.

I end this with another story on Israeli bullshit.

BLOCKED AT EVERY TURN

‘Adel ‘Omar, aged 21, died on 17 February 2007 after Israeli soldiers delayed his passage at the gate between the village of Azzun ‘Atmeh and the nearby town of Qalqilya. ‘Adel ‘Omar had been injured in a tractor accident. The village is surrounded by the fence/wall, and the only way out of it is through a gate which closes at 10pm. ‘Adel arrived at the checkpoint after 10pm and the soldiers did not open the gate for over an hour. He was still alive when he was allowed to pass, but died before he reached the hospital, only a few kilometres from the gate.

Such deaths are not a new phenomenon. Rula ‘Ashtiya, for example, was forced to give birth on the ground, on a dirt road by the Beit Furik checkpoint, after Israeli soldiers refused to allow her through the checkpoint in the early morning of 26 August 2003. Her baby girl died soon after. Rula was in labour and was on her way to Nablus hospital, only a few minutes away. The soldiers manning the checkpoint took no notice of her condition and obvious distress, not of her husband’s pleading. They did not ask to check their IDs and simply told them they could not pass. Only after Rula had given birth and her baby had died did the soldiers allow her and her husband and their dead baby to pass through the checkpoint.

Fuck Israel!

Fuck me and that bullshit? Well that is very civilized of you. I am only putting to facts what we all know, and that is that the Palestinians have no value of human life, if they did they would not have put explosives on their own women and children!

and after that people lecture Israel about morales. so poteto potato, it's really depends who you ask.

you say that had to disangage from Gaza? Well maybe, and pehaps, maybe not. It was not written anyplace. Just like it was not written anyplace that launching missiles on civilians is wrong.

but that is what the'yre doing.

For the checkpoints, I really could not care less that they stay there for hours. after thousands of children are stabbes, turtured, shot, bombed, kidnapped, can you blaim the Israeli government for putting people to check if Palestinians don't carry guns?

In the chekpoints people shuold never harm palestinians or being cruel to them, but chekpoint themselves are more then good. they are a true obligation for the security of israel

Is the Isreli government only allowed to be hurt or bombed? why don't the americans and Europeans remove all "checkpoints" from the airports and boarders, then?

You say that they listened to the Palestinians under attack, those peace activists. Fair I say, more then fair.

But did they listen to the Israeli southerners who are also under attack? no. both them, and YOU personally(1) pretend it's not even an issue. That is hypocricy, in which you blaimed me in earlier. you don't pretend to know all about it, like you did, based on listening to ONE SIDE ONLY.

Capisch?!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Israel is not a democracy. The following laws the Knesset has created show modern day Israel is as fascist as nazi Germany.

Recently passed laws...

(1) the Law to Prevent Infiltration permits...

... swear loyalty to Israel as a Jewish, democratic state, among other proposed measures[/INDENT].

We've come full circle. Israeli's treat arabs like the nazis treated the jews. Arabs in Israel are treated as second class citizens. Just like nazi Germany in the 30's, the Israeli's are practicing their own version of "ethnic cleansing". We need to go no further than this message board to see Israel's counterpart to Josef Goebbles, in the posts of JStone.

With people like this and laws like that, Israel doesn't deserve a country. People this fucked should be in jail, not running governments or treated as though their somehow special to planet earth. They're as special to humanity as Charles Manson was to Sharon Tate.

stfu loser

Israel is a great nation.

 

[Billo_Really]

Fuck me and that bullshit? Well that is very civilized of you. I am only putting to facts what we all know, and that is that the Palestinians have no value of human life, if they did they would not have put explosives on their own women and children!

and after that people lecture Israel about morales. so poteto potato, it's really depends who you ask.

Yeah, fuck you and that bullshit. What you're saying about the Palestinian's is total crap!

you say that had to disangage from Gaza? Well maybe, and pehaps, maybe not. It was not written anyplace. Just like it was not written anyplace that launching missiles on civilians is wrong.

but that is what the'yre doing.

There's no fucking "maybe" about it! You must be mental, because you act like international law doesn't apply to this area. I posted the applicable sections above and you act like I said nothing.

For the checkpoints, I really could not care less that they stay there for hours. after thousands of children are stabbes, turtured, shot, bombed, kidnapped, can you blaim the Israeli government for putting people to check if Palestinians don't carry guns?

In the chekpoints people shuold never harm palestinians or being cruel to them, but chekpoint themselves are more then good. they are a true obligation for the security of israel

Is the Isreli government only allowed to be hurt or bombed? why don't the americans and Europeans remove all "checkpoints" from the airports and boarders, then?

The checkpoints are on Palestinian land, not Israeli land.

You say that they listened to the Palestinians under attack, those peace activists. Fair I say, more then fair.

But did they listen to the Israeli southerners who are also under attack? no. both them, and YOU personally(1) pretend it's not even an issue. That is hypocricy, in which you blaimed me in earlier. you don't pretend to know all about it, like you did, based on listening to ONE SIDE ONLY.

Capisch?!

I'll say this again. You people are so fucked and inhuman in your treatment of the Palestinian's, I support military action against Israel in the OPT. I think Russia, the US and China should all send a mechanized division each to the OPT and drive you mother-fuckers back to your own country! Enough is enough. If you won't respect international law, then you should be forced to. If you won't decide to leave the area, then that decision should be made for you by a coalition force that should bulldoze down all those god-damn settlements.

I fucking hate hypocrites. And that's why I hate Israeli's. Because you're the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I fucking hate hypocrites.

if true, kill yourself now before it's too late

 

[Roudy]

No, you simply live in a tiny box that is waaay to tiny.

Some right wing Israelis are pure realistic. Not all are "Baruch Goldsteins"

Realistic my ass! You can't even deal with the article I just posted, that say's right there you want no part of reality. You just live in this make believe, pollyanna world where you make up what you want to be real. Like me in a tiny box. Which has nothing to do with anything. This isn't about me. I didn't write the article. BTW, the source of the report is jewish. Written by jews living in Israel. It's pretty common sense to assume that they would know what's going on in their own country. But you dismiss that and act like they don't. Then turn right around and try to talk to me about what is real.

Zionist's version of reality and truth; are light years from reality and truth.

Now now, we know the Palestinian / Muslim version of truth is: Israel is not ancient Jewish land, 9-11 was done by Mossad, if it weren't for Israel there wouldn't be any wars in the world (especially with Muslims), all the wars between Muslims and Israel were started by Israel, todays Jews are fake the real Jews are Muslims, Israel is stealing Palestinian land, Palestinans never commit terror, Hamas wants peace, the Wailing Wall is not part of the Ancient temple, the Holocaust never happened, etc etc etc

Did I mention Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion?
Heil Hitler has been updated to Allah Akbar.

 

[Sunni Man]

The days of Israel are fast coming to a close.

BUSINESS - Turkey plans to buy 100 US F-35 fighters

 

[Roudy]

The days of Israel are fast coming to a close.

BUSINESS - Turkey plans to buy 100 US F-35 fighters

Is there a single Muslim out there who doesn't masturbate on a daily basis to the destruction of Israel? Stand up and be counted.

 

[Lipush]

Fuck me and that bullshit? Well that is very civilized of you. I am only putting to facts what we all know, and that is that the Palestinians have no value of human life, if they did they would not have put explosives on their own women and children!

and after that people lecture Israel about morales. so poteto potato, it's really depends who you ask.

Yeah, fuck you and that bullshit. What you're saying about the Palestinian's is total crap!

you say that had to disangage from Gaza? Well maybe, and pehaps, maybe not. It was not written anyplace. Just like it was not written anyplace that launching missiles on civilians is wrong.

but that is what the'yre doing.

There's no fucking "maybe" about it! You must be mental, because you act like international law doesn't apply to this area. I posted the applicable sections above and you act like I said nothing.

For the checkpoints, I really could not care less that they stay there for hours. after thousands of children are stabbes, turtured, shot, bombed, kidnapped, can you blaim the Israeli government for putting people to check if Palestinians don't carry guns?

In the chekpoints people shuold never harm palestinians or being cruel to them, but chekpoint themselves are more then good. they are a true obligation for the security of israel

Is the Isreli government only allowed to be hurt or bombed? why don't the americans and Europeans remove all "checkpoints" from the airports and boarders, then?

The checkpoints are on Palestinian land, not Israeli land.

You say that they listened to the Palestinians under attack, those peace activists. Fair I say, more then fair.

But did they listen to the Israeli southerners who are also under attack? no. both them, and YOU personally(1) pretend it's not even an issue. That is hypocricy, in which you blaimed me in earlier. you don't pretend to know all about it, like you did, based on listening to ONE SIDE ONLY.

Capisch?!

I'll say this again. You people are so fucked and inhuman in your treatment of the Palestinian's, I support military action against Israel in the OPT. I think Russia, the US and China should all send a mechanized division each to the OPT and drive you mother-fuckers back to your own country! Enough is enough. If you won't respect international law, then you should be forced to. If you won't decide to leave the area, then that decision should be made for you by a coalition force that should bulldoze down all those god-damn settlements.

I fucking hate hypocrites. And that's why I hate Israeli's. Because you're the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

I think you broke the record of using the "f" word on this board

Hoever, I'm still not impressed.

Our families have more history to the land of Israel then Any Arab, or Palestinian, Or Beduin.

You say bring the worlds armies to kick our people out? who da hell do you think you people are?? Jew haters kicked us from every society we have tried to get involved in since time immemorial.They have forced Jews to change their religion, lifestyle, thoughts and codes of behaviour based on nothing. NOTHING. Jews have came back to Israel to live in Israel, and not only while and after 1948, bnut long before that, long before a "Palestinian state" was ever an issue.

Based on WHAT do you call for taking our people out of their lands? My own personal family never saw justice or made their demands after Arab savages burned their fields and houses, that was in the beginning of thr 1900's! you want to bring a russian soldier to my house to kick my family out? wouldn't THAT be something to see!

In Israel there are Jews who have been living for GENERATIONS in the land of Israel. European or French or Enlish soldiers have nothing to look for in Israel. After killing thousands of our people you call for forcing armies to the only land that Jews can live in? you cannot be real!

You want me to talk more about being a "hypocrite"? or true life experices? because all the articles in the word worth crap once you experience things on your own flesh. article is made by someone who quoted someone who in the past listen to someone who have been through the conflict. Journalism is crap.

So let me explain to you about this, and why it makes me so mad. hopefully you'll be able to leave being cynical behind and for once just listen.

After 2009, which btw was the year that I got released from the IDF, my father wanted me to be checked because he believed I was having PTSD. He himself suffered from that after losing his entire team in the six days war, he basically saw on of his best soldiers being bombed infront of him by an Egyptian missile. He was one of the few that survived the incident, but since them he didn't recover, so he learned to "idenify" it and since there was a big issue if I should get drafted or not since the beginning, he wanted me to leave the army and being checked and treated. I told him that I don't have any bad memories since those days, but that sometimes and can still see and hear the missile hitting the navy ship. that specific sound never left me.

After a month of me being released from the army, I happened to be in a terror attack scene. The guy just started shooting in the shopping mall, didn't care who or what, and all of that happened 5 meters from me. I saw the guy that was shot. he was covered in his own blood, and I was so paralized that I didn't even scream. I didn't even ran when I probably should have. I just FREEZED like a silly child. That was 3 years ago, and I still remember that, just like I remember each and every night that missiles hit my neighborhood.

I didn't get drafted because I WANTED. My father didn't get drafted because he *wanted*. He never served in Egypt because he wanted. He hurt his legs, his back,he lost his friends, because people told him and he should go and fight and protect himself and his country. He never killed or shot any Palestinian or Arab, thought he did have a vessel and an oppurtunity.

that guy that began shooting in the shopping mall? I did nothing to hurt him. I took no land from him, the land that my family had, that I should have inherited? I've lost it, because people burned it down. So I wasn't an "occupier" of anything either. I never hurt anyone of his family, I never saw him before. but he still shot at my direction, intended to kill me.

For all I care and want, this conflict would have ended if learers would have listened to their own people, and if the Palestinians would have loved their children more then they hate us. i don't wake up in the morning intending to hurt anyone, this situation was put on normal Israeli civilians, and Palesitnians too, when you think of it, without anyone wanting it.

I have no problem with people who listen to the Palestinians, because I know that THERE ARE innocent Palestinians who are hurt. But I want people to listen to *me* and *my friends* too. That is surely not to much to ask. We don't ask for any wars, no body wants to fight or kill or die.

I truely wish for people to understand that.

What I don't understand is, why it makes me a hypocrite.