Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Hollie]

The Jews who were Turkish citizens became Palestinian citizens

Right. The Jewish Palestinians and the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the geographical territory under the Mandate which was labelled "Palestine" but was not a sovereign State because it had not fulfilled the obligations required, under treaty, to "self-govern and stand alone".

Then the Jewish Palestinians exercised their right to self-determination and self-governance by fulfilling those obligations, declaring independence and being internationally recognized for doing so.

You keep repeating this lie. The British prevented the Christians and Muslims from fulfilling any obligations. In fact. the British would not even negotiate with the Christians and Muslim leadership. They only recognized the Zionist Organization, from the beginning, in 1922. Churchill's response (in part) to the Palestinian delegation:

"2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine........You state in your letter that the people of Palestine cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. Mr. Churchill is unable for the reasons stated above to regard your Delegation as officially representing the People of Palestine.....If your Delegation really represents the present attitude of the majority of the Arab population of Palestine, and Mr. Churchill has no grounds for suggesting that this is not the case, it is quite clear that the creation at this stage of a national Government would preclude the fulfilment of the pledge made by the British Government to the Jewish people."

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

As you can see, the British were intent on preventing the Christians and Muslims from negotiating their self-determination.

The above is another of the pointless articles you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads. It is as pointless now as it was the previous times you dumped it into multiple threads. It is just more of the whining and moaning you engage in to excuse ineptitude and incompetence of the part of Arabs-Moslems.

It was combined Islamist armies which attempted to prevent the Jewish people from seeking self-governance and self-determination, yet in spite of the Islamist Entity™, the state of Israel became a reality.

The Jewish people strived, handed the Islamist Entity™ a humiliating defeat and forged their own destiny.

The Islamist Entity™ is left to wallow in their failures with whiners and moaners like you to address failure.

 

[Hollie]

Projecting doesn't make you appear any less moronic. The Egyptians are from Egypt, the Syrians are from Syria and the Lebanese are from Lebanon. The Palestinians are from Palestine and the Jews came from Europe invaded Palestine and are now squatting on Christian and Muslim land. Those are the facts.

The problem with your hypocritical point of view, monte, is a Lebanese who moves to Palestine magically becomes a Palestinian whose "ancestors have been living there for thousands of years" while a Jew whose ancestors actually have been there for thousands of years somehow transforms into a European invader.

Not more than a month or so, your partner in crime posted a story about a poor "Palestinian" family who turned out to be Lebanese.

The real facts are that there has been a great deal of immigration into the geographical area known as Palestine in the past two hundred years or so. Before that, there was an Arab Muslim conquest. And before that were the indigenous Jewish people.

The descendants of indigenous people, that practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Roman, Caanite religions etc., are still in Palestine, they happen to follow the Christian and Muslim faiths today. The European Jews were from Europe and were Europeans.

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Immigration to Palestine over the past 200 years has been overwhelmingly Jewish.


"59. The conclusion is that Arab illegal immigration for the purposes of permanent settlement is insignificant."

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

Conversely:

" It follows that the Jewish population may now include between 50,000 and 60,000 illegal immigrants who have settled in Palestine at any time since 1920 when the first Immigration Ordinance was enacted. "

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 210, para. 54

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

On the other hand:

The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

LOL. Jewish Virtual Library a propaganda site, versus an official Anglo-American survey commissioned by the UN. Well done.

LOL.... another goofy "official" label you add to your cutting and pasting in a desperate attempt to dance around the refutation to your continued cut and paste spam of the same article.

 

[montelatici]

The Jews who were Turkish citizens became Palestinian citizens

Right. The Jewish Palestinians and the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the geographical territory under the Mandate which was labelled "Palestine" but was not a sovereign State because it had not fulfilled the obligations required, under treaty, to "self-govern and stand alone".

Then the Jewish Palestinians exercised their right to self-determination and self-governance by fulfilling those obligations, declaring independence and being internationally recognized for doing so.

You keep repeating this lie. The British prevented the Christians and Muslims from fulfilling any obligations. In fact. the British would not even negotiate with the Christians and Muslim leadership. They only recognized the Zionist Organization, from the beginning, in 1922. Churchill's response (in part) to the Palestinian delegation:

"2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine........You state in your letter that the people of Palestine cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. Mr. Churchill is unable for the reasons stated above to regard your Delegation as officially representing the People of Palestine.....If your Delegation really represents the present attitude of the majority of the Arab population of Palestine, and Mr. Churchill has no grounds for suggesting that this is not the case, it is quite clear that the creation at this stage of a national Government would preclude the fulfilment of the pledge made by the British Government to the Jewish people."

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

As you can see, the British were intent on preventing the Christians and Muslims from negotiating their self-determination.

The above is another of the pointless articles you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads. It is as pointless now as it was the previous times you dumped it into multiple threads. It is just more of the whining and moaning you engage in to excuse ineptitude and incompetence of the part of Arabs-Moslems.

It was combined Islamist armies which attempted to prevent the Jewish people from seeking self-governance and self-determination, yet in spite of the Islamist Entity™, the state of Israel became a reality.

The Jewish people strived, handed the Islamist Entity™ a humiliating defeat and forged their own destiny.

The Islamist Entity™ is left to wallow in their failures with whiners and moaners like you to address failure.

They are not "articles" they are quotes from the official correspondence between the British Colonial Office (then headed by Churchill) and the Palestine Delegation in 1922. The correspondence is contained in the League of Nations archives hosted by the United Nations. I understand that serious research using source material bewilders you, sorry about that dear. Continue with your parroting of material from propaganda sites.

 

[montelatici]

Projecting doesn't make you appear any less moronic. The Egyptians are from Egypt, the Syrians are from Syria and the Lebanese are from Lebanon. The Palestinians are from Palestine and the Jews came from Europe invaded Palestine and are now squatting on Christian and Muslim land. Those are the facts.

The problem with your hypocritical point of view, monte, is a Lebanese who moves to Palestine magically becomes a Palestinian whose "ancestors have been living there for thousands of years" while a Jew whose ancestors actually have been there for thousands of years somehow transforms into a European invader.

Not more than a month or so, your partner in crime posted a story about a poor "Palestinian" family who turned out to be Lebanese.

The real facts are that there has been a great deal of immigration into the geographical area known as Palestine in the past two hundred years or so. Before that, there was an Arab Muslim conquest. And before that were the indigenous Jewish people.

The descendants of indigenous people, that practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Roman, Caanite religions etc., are still in Palestine, they happen to follow the Christian and Muslim faiths today. The European Jews were from Europe and were Europeans.

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Immigration to Palestine over the past 200 years has been overwhelmingly Jewish.


"59. The conclusion is that Arab illegal immigration for the purposes of permanent settlement is insignificant."

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

Conversely:

" It follows that the Jewish population may now include between 50,000 and 60,000 illegal immigrants who have settled in Palestine at any time since 1920 when the first Immigration Ordinance was enacted. "

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 210, para. 54

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

On the other hand:

The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

LOL. Jewish Virtual Library a propaganda site, versus an official Anglo-American survey commissioned by the UN. Well done.

LOL.... another goofy "official" label you add to your cutting and pasting in a desperate attempt to dance around the refutation to your continued cut and paste spam of the same article.

Just facts. One admittedly an article from "Live Science" the others experts from the Survey of Palestine archived at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive now hosted by Stanford University, a Jewish source no less. I know that this sort of thing, universities and all, that bewilders you, being so accustomed to propaganda sites.

 

[Hollie]

The problem with your hypocritical point of view, monte, is a Lebanese who moves to Palestine magically becomes a Palestinian whose "ancestors have been living there for thousands of years" while a Jew whose ancestors actually have been there for thousands of years somehow transforms into a European invader.

Not more than a month or so, your partner in crime posted a story about a poor "Palestinian" family who turned out to be Lebanese.

The real facts are that there has been a great deal of immigration into the geographical area known as Palestine in the past two hundred years or so. Before that, there was an Arab Muslim conquest. And before that were the indigenous Jewish people.

The descendants of indigenous people, that practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Roman, Caanite religions etc., are still in Palestine, they happen to follow the Christian and Muslim faiths today. The European Jews were from Europe and were Europeans.

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Immigration to Palestine over the past 200 years has been overwhelmingly Jewish.


"59. The conclusion is that Arab illegal immigration for the purposes of permanent settlement is insignificant."

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

Conversely:

" It follows that the Jewish population may now include between 50,000 and 60,000 illegal immigrants who have settled in Palestine at any time since 1920 when the first Immigration Ordinance was enacted. "

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 210, para. 54

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

On the other hand:

The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

LOL. Jewish Virtual Library a propaganda site, versus an official Anglo-American survey commissioned by the UN. Well done.

LOL.... another goofy "official" label you add to your cutting and pasting in a desperate attempt to dance around the refutation to your continued cut and paste spam of the same article.

Just facts. One admittedly an article from "Live Science" the others experts from the Survey of Palestine archived at the Berman Jewish Policy Archive now hosted by Stanford University, a Jewish source no less. I know that this sort of thing, universities and all, that bewilders you, being so accustomed to propaganda sites.

I see you have abandoned your silly, self-administered "official" label.

It's hilarious to watch as you retreat in these Michael Jackson moonwalking backstrokes as your hysterical claims are reduced in their "officialness". LOL.

 

[Hollie]

The Jews who were Turkish citizens became Palestinian citizens

Right. The Jewish Palestinians and the Arab Palestinians became citizens of the geographical territory under the Mandate which was labelled "Palestine" but was not a sovereign State because it had not fulfilled the obligations required, under treaty, to "self-govern and stand alone".

Then the Jewish Palestinians exercised their right to self-determination and self-governance by fulfilling those obligations, declaring independence and being internationally recognized for doing so.

You keep repeating this lie. The British prevented the Christians and Muslims from fulfilling any obligations. In fact. the British would not even negotiate with the Christians and Muslim leadership. They only recognized the Zionist Organization, from the beginning, in 1922. Churchill's response (in part) to the Palestinian delegation:

"2. I am to point out in the first place that, while your Delegation is recognised by Mr. Churchill as representing a large section of the Moslem and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, and while the Secretary of State is anxious to discuss his present proposals informally with recognised representatives, such as yourselves, of any important section of the community, he is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine........You state in your letter that the people of Palestine cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. Mr. Churchill is unable for the reasons stated above to regard your Delegation as officially representing the People of Palestine.....If your Delegation really represents the present attitude of the majority of the Arab population of Palestine, and Mr. Churchill has no grounds for suggesting that this is not the case, it is quite clear that the creation at this stage of a national Government would preclude the fulfilment of the pledge made by the British Government to the Jewish people."

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

As you can see, the British were intent on preventing the Christians and Muslims from negotiating their self-determination.

The above is another of the pointless articles you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads. It is as pointless now as it was the previous times you dumped it into multiple threads. It is just more of the whining and moaning you engage in to excuse ineptitude and incompetence of the part of Arabs-Moslems.

It was combined Islamist armies which attempted to prevent the Jewish people from seeking self-governance and self-determination, yet in spite of the Islamist Entity™, the state of Israel became a reality.

The Jewish people strived, handed the Islamist Entity™ a humiliating defeat and forged their own destiny.

The Islamist Entity™ is left to wallow in their failures with whiners and moaners like you to address failure.

They are not "articles" they are quotes from the official correspondence between the British Colonial Office (then headed by Churchill) and the Palestine Delegation in 1922. The correspondence is contained in the League of Nations archives hosted by the United Nations. I understand that serious research using source material bewilders you, sorry about that dear. Continue with your parroting of material from propaganda sites.

"Official correspondence". LOL.

Such melodrama.

 

[montelatici]

It is the official (on the record) correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation and the British Colonial Office. Bewildering for you, I feel your pain.

PALESTINE.
​

CORRESPONDENCE
WITH THE
PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
AND THE
ZIONIST ORGANISATION.​

​

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:
​

PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
following address:
Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller


1922.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument

 

[Hollie]

It is the official (on the record) correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation and the British Colonial Office. Bewildering for you, I feel your pain.

PALESTINE.

CORRESPONDENCE
WITH THE
PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
AND THE
ZIONIST ORGANISATION.

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:
​

PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
following address:
Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller


1922.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument

Well, as long as you have added the "official" label we can be sure your cutting and pasting of the same article multiple times across multiple threads makes it "official". LOL.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is the official (on the record) correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation and the British Colonial Office. Bewildering for you, I feel your pain.

PALESTINE.

CORRESPONDENCE
WITH THE
PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
AND THE
ZIONIST ORGANISATION.

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:
​

PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
following address:
Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller


1922.

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

Well, as long as you have added the "official" label we can be sure your cutting and pasting of the same article multiple times across multiple threads makes it "official". LOL.

I understood it the first time. You are still grappling with it.

 

[montelatici]

Poor Holly is bewildered.

 

[Shusha]

You keep repeating this lie.

As you can see, the British were intent on preventing the Christians and Muslims from negotiating their self-determination.

You need to be REAL clear what lie it is you feel I am repeating.

Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians have the same rights to self-determination as the Arab Palestinians?
Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians fulfilled their obligations to be able to "stand alone"?
Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians declared and were internationally recognized for their sovereign independence?
Or is it the "lie" that the Arab Palestinians have still (!) failed to fulfill their obligations?

What I see in the content you posted is NOT the prevention of Arab Christian and Muslim Palestinian self-determination, but the prevention of Arab Christian and Muslim Palestinian self-determination conditional upon the rejection of any Jewish Palestinian self-determination.

The British refused to acknowledge a zero-sum, either/or game. Good on them.

 

[montelatici]

1. Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians have the same rights to self-determination as the Arab Palestinians?

Yes, but not at the expense of other people.

The Palestinians rightly refused to accept the transfer of Europeans to Palestine as it would naturally eliminate their ability to achieve self-determination as a people as a whole.

2. Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians fulfilled their obligations to be able to "stand alone"?

Yes, by expelling hundreds of thousands of Christians and Muslims. Contrary to the terms of the Mandate.

3. Is it the "lie" that the Jewish Palestinians declared and were internationally recognized for their sovereign independence?

Again, through the expulsion and elimination by other means of the Christians and Muslims, contrary to the terms of the Mandate.

4. Or is it the "lie" that the Arab Palestinians have still (!) failed to fulfill their obligations?

The British prevented the Christians and Muslims from fulfilling their obligations earlier and now the Israelis are an occupying power that prevents any possibility self-determination.

 

[Shusha]

So wait a minute, hold on. Just to make sure I understand:

You agree that the Jewish people have a right to self-determination on that territory.

You believe that self-determination does NOT include the right to invite or control immigration.

You believe that the mere presence of other people with rights to self-determination restricts or removes your ability to self-govern or have self-determination?

And you believe "occupation" prevents developing self-determination?

 

[foggedinn]

Here's an older history.
For cause of the iniquity of the Amorites, (Gen. 15 v16) God gave the land of the Cananites to the children of the bloody babe of Ezekiel 16 1-6), The only Lawful heir to the throne of Salem. This is the matriarchal genealogy of Israel.
700 years later, the iniquity of the Amorites had developed in a mighty nation.
Only through the Almighty will they continue.

 

[montelatici]

No, I am saying that the European Jews had no right to self-determination on a territory inhabited by other people with a right to self-determination.

 

[Shusha]

No, I am saying that the European Jews had no right to self-determination on a territory inhabited by other people with a right to self-determination.

But the Jewish Palestinians have the right to self-determination, yes?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, you keep saying that. But it is entirely the WRONG interpretation.

ARTICLE I6.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

You post this all the time. Neither the LoN nor the Mandate claimed any sovereignty. The LoN did say who would be the benefactors of their tutelage. They used terms like the people, the inhabitants, the natives, and the indigenous. There was no mention of foreigners.

So who were these people? The treaty of Lausanne spelled that out.

SECTION II .
NATIONALITY.
ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​

They were talking about the people who actually lived there being citizens of their respective states. No foreigners were mentioned. The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty on their land as affirmed by subsequent UN resolutions.

(COMMENT)

You get this wrong every single time, as if repeating it over and over again will somehow change it.

• Article 16 is in the first Part and first Section of the Treaty. It is called: "TERRITORIAL CLAUSES."

§ This section deals with the disposition of territory for which the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic forfeits. In this case, ALL the territory outside the frontiers of the Turkish Republic. The only exception is territorial arrangements covered by special arrangements arising from some previously honored diplomatic relations.
​

• Article 30 is in the first Part and second Section of the Treaty. It is called "NATIONALITY."

§ This section deals with people who the question of nationality might be considered ambiguous under the operation of its law prior to this treaty. It insures that there si a uniform understanding among the various Mandatories as to how certain people are addressed. Although Article 30 mentions no particular territory, in its application relative to the territory under the Mandate of Palestine applies --- as the nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred: The Government of Palestine. That would be from the Mesopotamian Border to the Mediterranean Sea. The use of the word "State" in this case, insures that the citizenship passes into the follow-on Sovereignty as defined by the Mandatory. In this case, the population East of the Jordan River would become citizens of Trans-Jordan when Britain (the Mandatory) formally recognized the Emirate of Transjordan as a state on 15 May 1923 under the leadership of the first Emir (Abdullah).
​

Section I, Article 16, does not determine citizenship, and Section II, Article 30 does not impact the Rights and Title of the Territory. Article 30 says which citizenship the people are assigned based on the territorial determination on Article 16. In the case of Palestine, that authority was delineated in (first) the Palestine Order in Council --- then the Citizenship Order of 1925.

The Territorial Government drives Nationality, NOT the other way around.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

You cite these letters as if they have some impact in the application of law. they are not LAWs. It is a discussion, much like we are having here (Diplomatic Exchange by name).

It is the official (on the record) correspondence between the Palestinian Delegation and the British Colonial Office. Bewildering for you, I feel your pain.

PALESTINE.

CORRESPONDENCE
WITH THE
PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
AND THE
ZIONIST ORGANISATION.

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:
​

PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
following address:
Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller


1922.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...48a7e5584ee1403485256cd8006c3fbe?OpenDocument

(COMMENT)

Nothing in this entire series has some legally binding implication. And much of this, including the 1922 White Paper DID NOT reflect policy through the War Years.

110. The Mandatory’s new statement of policy was examined by the Permanent Mandates Commission at their thirty-sixth session in June, 1939. the commission reported that:

“the policy set out in the White Paper was not in accordance with the interpretation which, in agreement with the Mandatory Power and the Council, the Commission had always placed upon the Palestine Mandate.”
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

Bleipriester, et al,

You may make this claim; but what impact does it have.

The definitions of the "right to exist" vary in Israel´s case. For some, it is the right to do anything and the right to not to be criticized. Israel is without mistakes and its actions above human ability to judge, they say.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis generally believe that every --- universally --- have the very same rights. The idea is that the Rights of one group cannot deprive the Rights of another group.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Bleipriester]

Bleipriester, et al,

You may make this claim; but what impact does it have.

The definitions of the "right to exist" vary in Israel´s case. For some, it is the right to do anything and the right to not to be criticized. Israel is without mistakes and its actions above human ability to judge, they say.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis generally believe that every --- universally --- have the very same rights. The idea is that the Rights of one group cannot deprive the Rights of another group.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no Palestine so this idea apparently didn´t make it to the government.