Israel's War Against Hamas - Updates

[Meister]

Note: They were bombed by the Apache and Merkava NOT the Resistance.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Note: They were bombed by the Apache and Merkava NOT the Resistance.

The Nova Festival was bombed?
You cannot keep up with what is being discussed?

 

[Ancient lion]

Meister ?

 

[Meister]

Meister ?

View attachment 860409

Oh well, works on my computer

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Shame on this soldier. And bravo for Israel not letting something like this pass. On the other hand, a Muslim doing anything against a Synagogue in Israel, etc would they be suspended or given a prize? ]

IDF suspends soldier who threw stun grenade into West Bank mosque

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www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hamas leader Ahmad Bahr used to advocate for women to take active involvement in the jihad against Jews and in suicide attack missions. In this video he is seen saluting Rim Al-Riyashi who Blew herself up and killed 4 Israelis along with herself.Ahmad Bahr got hit by an Israeli airstrike and died in Gaza.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Military denies giving Shifa evacuation order, says doctors asked it to help people leave; fuel arrives in Strip; dozens of Gazans reported killed in Khan Younis, Jabaliya​

(full article online)

Most patients, staff, displaced leave Shifa Hospital area; IDF pushes deeper into Gaza

Military denies giving Shifa evacuation order, says doctors asked it to help people leave; fuel arrives in Strip; dozens of Gazans reported killed in Khan Younis, Jabaliya

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Shusha]

Do you not think that generations of displacement, a multi-generational occupation by what is seeing as a foreign “colonizing” power, inequities in rights, justice, the indignities they face on a daily level, security and economic opportunity might play into it? I am not saying all this is on Israel alone, but you can’t exempt it from what has shaped their outlook.

But this is exactly what I mean when I say "worldview". It is a worldview to see an "occupation", rather than, "huh, the Jews have always been here, and they want self-determination and sovereignty, just like we do". It is a worldview to see the Jewish people as "foreigners" or "colonizers" in the Jewish homeland, rather than "welcoming them home". It is a worldview to see the Jewish people, at the end of the Holocaust, as a "power". And, in the context of this conversation, it is a worldview to see "inequities and indignities", rather than "opportunities". It is a worldview to see violence as necessary. I'm speaking specifically of the people of Gaza.

This is not the only example regarding how extremism (usually based on targeted hate) can take root around the world. Studies in long-term refugee camps and migrant holding facilities have made similar findings (I can look them up and link them if you want).

Comparison between Gaza and refugee camps/migrant holding facilities is inaccurate, at best.

As a caveat, I will add you can’t ignore the fact that Hamas is more extreme and religious than Fatah which has been described as more secular and mainstream and that also plays into the different outlooks.

We agree. I also think that it is significant that the people of Gaza, nearly a generation of them, have been more-or-less cut off from the Jewish people. An entire generation of young people who have grown up with an idea of Jews, based on disturbing teachings. This is part of the counter-education which sparked these latest post exchanges.

Poverty, lack of opportunity (economic, migration, ability to afford marriage), no forseeable future and marginalization are all factors that increase violence and susceptibility to radicalization. It isn’t just me saying that.

Yes, but again, this is what I mean when I say "worldview". It is a worldview to see "no foreseeable future". It is a worldview to see violence as the only option. "By any means necessary" is a worldview.

What agency do they have?

As I said, choose water. Stop all violence against Israel and Jews. Take the millions of $ of aide and income and build something. Build something. Anything. Anything except tunnels and rockets. Will this solve their problems overnight? Of course not. Will it bring a viable, thriving future? Of course it will. This isn't even hard to imagine. UNLESS you buy into a worldview where the people of Gaza are incapable. OR you buy into a worldview where Israel is so truly evil. Neither of those things are true.

Have they ever had complete autonomy like Israeli’s have or has it always been under Israel’s strictures and the continually diminishing potential for that autonomy as more and more land gets taken up by Israel?

See? Again, this is a worldview. "We have never had complete autonomy, so I guess that means we never will" as opposed to, "Wow. Israel just gave us a whole shit ton of actual autonomy in 2005, what shall we do with it?" Also, Israel is not "taking" any land in Gaza.

The fact that you exempt Israel from any responsibility is cringeworthy.

Responsibility for WHAT, exactly?! Specifically, as it pertains to Gaza. Specifically, as it pertains to the self-determination of the people of Gaza. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Essentially ceded that entire territory to what might have been -- what should have been -- an independent State with its own government, resources, economy, trade, and apparently a shit ton of natural gas off its coast. Why is Israel in any way responsible for Gaza, its people, or its governance after she withdrew? Especially in light of the constant belligerence from Gaza towards Israel. Rockets hours afterwards and ever since. Suicide bombers. Car rammings. Intifadas. October 7. The people of Gaza are responsible for Gaza. The government of Gaza is responsible for Gaza. Maintaining the worldview that Israel is somehow perpetually responsible for Gaza, is the very problem I am attempting (apparently without success) to point out.

…or maybe it is the steadfast refusal to acknowledge ANY responsibility on the part of Israel AS A NATION, that is driving at least some of this rise in antisemitism?

Nah, this is just straight up victim-blaming. People are not the cause of their oppression and people are not the cause of an irrational hatred against them.

The defend Israel at all costs, no matter what happens, is hardly helpful PARTICULARLY given is actions over the past few years!

I am not in any way defending Israel "at all costs, no matter what happens". I defend Israel using valid and justifiable arguments. I am pretty vocal on this board when individual Israelis, or individual Jews, or the Israeli government acts in ways that I don't defend. I just did so today, which you acknowledged.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hamas official uses child as human shield (source Reddit via IDF)

Photo shows Hamas terrorists using children as human shields | World Israel News

This follows Israeli soldiers discovering an armory and Hamas headquarters hidden in tunnels beneath Al-Shifa hospital.

worldisraelnews.com

 

[rylah]

HAMAS WAR ON ISRAEL (Urgent Briefing)​

Join StandWithUs TV Live for the latest Emergency Briefing from IDF Spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, who has been in Gaza this week. Featuring Arab-Israeli diplomat, Ambassador George Deek and StandWithUs experts Yael Lerman and Rena Nasar-First will be on-hand to discuss fighting antisemitism on campus and via the law.

 

[rylah]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ The Pro Hamas crowd on October 7th ]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Infant photos at Shifa are not believable​

Over the past couple of days, we've seen photos like these out of Shifa hospital:


The caption from Reuters says, "Newborn babies in al-Shifa hospital are swaddled and laid down seven or eight to a bed in a desperate effort to keep them warm and alive."

But if you want to keep the babies warm without an incubator, you would swaddle all of them - not leave some naked. You would cover their heads with the knit caps some of us are familiar with.Or, ideally, you would find people to hold them - preferably their mothers - and give them skin to skin contact to keep them warm.

You don't just lie them on a bed, some of them without clothes, one of them (who does not look premature or sickly at all) with their face pushed up against the sharp corner of a box.

This is not treating premature babies. This is abusing them for a photo-op.

Another photo of babies from Shifa hospital shows something interesting:


There is equipment and lights in the background that is clearly running on - electricity.

In 1991, Kuwait was trying to get US public opinion to go against Saddam Hussein. And they used the best prop they could find: babies forced out of incubators to die.

In his urgent arguments during the fall and winter of 1990 for military action against Saddam Hussein, President Bush made much of the Iraqi leader's cruelty toward the Kuwaiti people. Mr. Bush's allegations of atrocities by Iraqi forces generally went unchallenged. Mr. Hussein's violent disposal of dissident Iraqis was a matter of record, so few politicians, journalists or human rights investigators were prepared to question the President's campaign to paint his opponent as Adolf Hitler reborn.

Some claims were no doubt true, but the most sensational one -- that Iraqi soldiers removed hundreds of Kuwaiti babies from incubators and left them to die on hospital floors -- was shown to be almost certainly false by an ABC reporter, John Martin, in March 1991, directly after the liberation of Kuwait. He interviewed hospital doctors who stayed in Kuwait throughout the occupation.

But before the war, the incubator story seriously distorted the American debate about whether to support military action. Amnesty International believed the tale, and its ill-considered validation of the charges likely influenced the seven U.S. Senators who cited the story in speeches supporting the Jan. 12 resolution authorizing war. Since the resolution passed the Senate by only six votes, the question of how the incubator story escaped scrutiny -- when it really mattered -- is all the more important. (Amnesty International later retracted its support of the story.)

A little reportorial investigation would have done a great service to the democratic process. Americans would have been interested to know the identity of "Nayirah," the 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl who shocked the Congressional Human Rights Caucus on Oct. 10, 1990, when she tearfully asserted that she had watched 15 infants being taken from incubators in Al-Adan Hospital in Kuwait City by Iraqi soldiers who "left the babies on the cold floor to die." The chairmen of the Congressional group, Tom Lantos, a California Democrat, and John Edward Porter, an Illinois Republican, explained that Nayirah's identify would be kept secret to protect her family from reprisals in occupied Kuwait.

There was a better reason to protect her from exposure: Nayirah, her real name, is the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the U.S., Saud Nasir al-Sabah. Such a pertinent fact might have led to impertinent demands for proof of Nayirah's whereabouts in August and September of 1990, when she said she witnessed the atrocities, as well as corroboration of her charges. The Kuwaiti Embassy has rebuffed my efforts to reach Nayirah.

Saddam was no saint, but the story was a hoax. Americans, picturing the cruelty of babies forced out of their incubators to die in the cold, - a story amplified by an American public relations firm - solidly backed the war.

We know that many doctors at Al Shifa are fans of Hamas. Others are afraid of Hamas. We know there was plenty ofquite public Hamas activity around Shifa Hospital on October 7 that hospital workers witnessed and stayed silent about. Their testimony and staged photos are not anything to be relied upon.

But the media believed them, and still believes them, no matter how ridiculous their lies are.

Infant photos at Shifa are not believable

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

CNN never questions displays of captured weapons - unless it is Israel capturing them. The media message: "The Jews cannot be trusted."​

In 2019, CNN reported:

Italian police have seized “an arsenal of military weapons,” including an air-to-air missile, and a collection of Nazi paraphernalia from three men, one of whom is a former political candidate for an extreme right party.

In 2022, CNN published a photo of weapons found associated with a jailbreak:


In 2023, CNN published this arsenal that police found in Virginia Beach:


In these cases and plenty of others, the display of weapons were clearly set up by police to show the weapons all together. It is obvious the police didn't find the weapons in these positions; they moved them for the media to take photos.

But when Israel shows Hamas weapons it finds in Gaza hospitals, suddenly the rules change:

An Israel Defense Forces video on November 15 showing a tour of Hamas weaponry found at Al-Shifa hospital shows less weaponry at the scene than in later footage filmed by international news crews, indicating the weaponry may have been moved or placed there prior to news crews arriving.

Yes, the IDF responded to the charges, saying they had found more weapons in the interim and placed them there for the media.

But the fact that CNN questions whether the IDF was faking the evidence, when it never asks that question from anyone else, is the real problem.

Too much of the reporting from Gaza is based on the idea that Jews simply cannot be trusted. If the IDF says something, it is suspected of lying from the outset.

Yet casualty figures, and anecdotes from Hamas sources or "witnesses" who are in serious danger from Hamas if they say something the terror group doesn't like, or who openly cheer Hamas atrocities, are not questioned.

This is media bias. But it is worse than that, because it plays into antisemitic tropes that Jews are not trustworthy, that they are always up to something, that they are trying to pull one over on the "goyim."

In 1890, a newspaper asked prominent Americans about anti-Jewish prejudice. One question asked:



The president of Harvard University, Charles W. Eliot, answered:



This opinion didn't make the businessmen less honorable in his eyes.

This is the underlying prejudice behind so much reporting from Gaza. Even though Israel has every reason to tell the truth - and if it wanted to fake evidence of Hamas presence at the hospitals, it could have planted a great deal more weapons than it displayed. But that must all be part of the sly Jewish plan to make everyone think the weapons were really there, right?

Consciously or not, the news media are promoting antisemitic conspiracy theories.

CNN never questions displays of captured weapons - unless it is Israel capturing them. The media message: "The Jews cannot be trusted."

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Hamas cannot be trusted, only killed.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7

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www.timesofisrael.com