It just dawned on me? God didnt create sin

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no such thing as sin. Put away the children's toys, you are adults, now.

So I can kill you?

You can try. What does that have to do with anything? Except for you possibly revealing that you only behave morally because you think you are under threat from a sky daddy.

 

[Missourian]

There is no such thing as sin. Put away the children's toys, you are adults, now.

So I can kill you?

You can try. What does that have to do with anything? Except for you possibly revealing that you only behave morally because you think you are under threat from a sky daddy.

What authority does one man have over another? It's just a man...and I am a man. Does Donald Trump know better than you? He is just flesh and blood.


I'm saying religion is also useful to society...and your attempt to demean it may have ramification beyond your shortsighted political motivations.

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family. Or authority. Or whatever. Colloquially referenced as 'daddy issues'. And that's ok...we all have our things. I was the smartest person on earth once too.

The point is...if you are a person of intellect...you can see that there are good reasons to encourage religious adherence. If the world was all math and science...the calculation I referenced would be a consequence. Someone makes a calculation that the world would be better off without so and so and if only the laws of man stand in the way...what authority stand behind them? Only the authority of other flesh and blood men (and women) who will also pass away to nothing. Trivialities of nature.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

 

[Missourian]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

 

[Missourian]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

 

[BreezeWood]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

.
what all was there in the Garden of Eden - are all the beings on Earth from there and they all have eaten the fruit as well ... the Almighty must be scratching their head. or pleased to abide by their discretion for them all to be sent on the same journey to sink or swim of their own accord.

- the "sin" is the interpretation constrewed by the desert religions rather than an awakening they would then be responsible for to begin a task of understanding that continues to this day that may or may not have a happy ending.

and their use of satan - satan is dead, the true example from the Almighty for what will happen to those who truly sin.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

 

[Missourian]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

Oh , I see. I admit, I just read your entire question. Was that supposed to be a tough question? It isn't. No, I don't murder him. No iron aged handbook or magical, childish concept of "sin" required for me to answer.

 

[BreezeWood]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

.
hypothetically ...

what's that guy up to .... it's ok when threatened.

 

[Missourian]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

Oh , I see. I admit, I just read your entire question. Was that supposed to be a tough question? It isn't. No, I don't murder him. No iron aged handbook or magical, childish concept of "sin" required for me to answer.

Why not? Why would you unnecessarily put your families life in danger. They only have one. That makes no logical sense.

 

[Missourian]

]
Is the answer in the bible?

No?

Looks like you proved my point.

But it is.

Thou shall not commit murder.

Not a smart response. Your entire question revolves around whether or not the killing is murder.

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

You are taking a life of a person that is not actively threatening you...in fact doesn't even know you exist...when you have many other alternatives. What else would you call it?

.
hypothetically ...

View attachment 331498

what's that guy up to .... it's ok when threatened.

Yes...we are having a hypothetical discussion. That is a cartoon character...it's not real...just in case that might also confuse you.

 

[occupied]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

You are posing a variation of the "trolley problem". There is no right answer. That's what makes it a useful philosophical question into the nature of evil.

 

[Missourian]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

You are posing a variation of the "trolley problem". There is no right answer. That's what makes it a useful philosophical question into the nature of evil.

Interesting. IMO at the moment there is a "right" answer...but, maybe not. Let me ponder that for awhile.

One obvious difference id the trolley problem is timed...and there are only two options.

Here your option is whether to put yourself and your loved ones in harms way or take care of things yourself. If you...or man...is the final arbitrator of what is right and wrong...what is the harm of figuatively taking out the trash and sparing your family danger? You saw the crime with your own eyes. Sure...with our Judeo-Christian based morality this would seem wrong...but in a logic based morality...it makes a lot more sense.

 

[occupied]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

You are posing a variation of the "trolley problem". There is no right answer. That's what makes it a useful philosophical question into the nature of evil.

Interesting. IMO at the moment there is a "right" answer...but, maybe not. Let me ponder that for awhile.

One obvious difference id the trolley problem is timed...and there are only two options.

Here your option is whether to put yourself and your loved ones in harms way or take care of things yourself. If you...or man...is the final arbitrator of what is right and wrong...what is the harm of figuatively taking out the trash and sparing your family danger? You saw the crime with your own eyes. Sure...with our Judeo-Christian based morality this would seem wrong...but in a logic based morality...it makes a lot more sense.

Logic based morality? You're talking about "ethics". Philosophy is full of ethical dilemmas. None of these problems are settled and never will be by design. We are often presented with dilemmas in our lives and I can't see where anyone does anything more than go with their gut. That means that thought experiments are fun but they have no bearing on how we actually decide things. Even the most thoughtful person tries to knee-jerk their way out of bad situations and worry about the ethical implications later.

 

[james bond]

All the stuff you listed are extensions of our primitive urges.

Is that the atheist religion? Sounds like it.

Religions give followers acceptable paths to satisfy those urges in return for blind obedience.

This sounds like the atheist religion, too.

Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against. God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society. Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against.

Sins are against God in Christianity, but it's Satan who tempts and leads us to evil. We have the Ten Commandments and it shows us that no one is free from sin. Can you keep it?

God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society.

Again, Satan is there to condone evil... It goes to show that you ignore Satan and blame things on God by saying he "is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever." The first four commandments are against God while the last six are against humans. Thus, you have this way wrong.

 

[occupied]

All the stuff you listed are extensions of our primitive urges.

Is that the atheist religion? Sounds like it.

Religions give followers acceptable paths to satisfy those urges in return for blind obedience.

This sounds like the atheist religion, too.

Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against. God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society. Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against.

Sins are against God in Christianity, but it's Satan who tempts and leads us to evil. We have the Ten Commandments and it shows us that no one is free from sin. Can you keep it?

God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society.

Again, Satan is there to condone evil... It goes to show that you ignore Satan and blame things on God by saying he "is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever." The first four commandments are against God while the last six are against humans. Thus, you have this way wrong.

I blame humans for all the evil in the world since they are the only ones who seem to be doing evil things. Until God and Satan quit hiding from every rational mind on earth I'm not going to waste my time looking for them. Spent my life up until early adulthood looking for them and all I found was a lot of good and bad humans. God does not exist but it is better to speak as if he does in order to have a theological discussion. If I say God did this or that it is in the context of established dogma and scripture. As far as I am concerned non-existent beings are incapable of anything on their own, they need people to act in their stead.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When I see posts like yours I only see emotional rebellion against your earthly family.

Because i think sin is a childish idea? What? You are reflexively reacting because you are religious. I don't need the childish concept of sin to arrive at morality. And i certainly have better morality than the garbage spelled out on the iron aged handbook. I'm sure you do, too.

Ok...how about a morality test.

You were a soldier or a hunter or whatever...you have skill with a rifle.

You see a man...a drug dealer...a man with a reputation for killing...you see this man kill another man in cold blood with your own eyes.

You can call the police...make an anonymous tip and hope they can catch the guy...but they can't.

You can do nothing...is that morally right? No.

That leaves some not so great choices.

You can go to the police and agree to testify against him...putting yourself and your family in danger.

Or...you can just kill the guy from 300 meters away. No one will ever know or care.

Keep in mind...the only objective in life is to extend it as long as possible...because nothing comes after...and pass on your genetic material through your children...and be "moral".

What do you do?

The loophole is that the commandment says not to murder, but killing is not mentioned. However, there are places in the Bible where a person was defending themselves from an attack, and ended up killing their attacker. Although they killed someone, it's not murder because they were defending themselves.

You stated in your example that we saw someone kill someone else in cold blood. The justification could be that you were trying to defend someone else from dying, and had to shoot the person to stop the attack. Simple. You can kill the person from 300 yards.

 

[ABikerSailor]

All the stuff you listed are extensions of our primitive urges.

Is that the atheist religion? Sounds like it.

Religions give followers acceptable paths to satisfy those urges in return for blind obedience.

This sounds like the atheist religion, too.

Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against. God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society. Sins are highly dependent on who is being sinned against.

Sins are against God in Christianity, but it's Satan who tempts and leads us to evil. We have the Ten Commandments and it shows us that no one is free from sin. Can you keep it?

God is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever as much as to keep us from doing evil within our circle of faith. It's all very tribal and has no place in modern society.

Again, Satan is there to condone evil... It goes to show that you ignore Satan and blame things on God by saying he "is there to bless our evil against the outsider/unbeliever." The first four commandments are against God while the last six are against humans. Thus, you have this way wrong.

Is it possible to keep all 10 commandments? Sure. The reason God gave them to us was to try to ensure the survival of the human race.

I'll give you a quick rundown of each...........................

1. Thou shalt not have any other gods before Me. Simple............if you worship something other than God, He won't be willing to help you out if you need it.

2. Thou shalt not worship any graven image. Simple.............the image isn't alive, and has no power. You might as well worship a rock.

3. Thou shalt not take God's name in vain. Think about this...............if your neighbor is constantly calling you nasty names and swearing at you, if they come up to you one day and ask for help, are you going to help them? Probably not. God is the same way. I mean, after all, we were created in His image.

4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Stress kills people, so if you don't take a bit of time off once in a while, you end up killing yourself, so take a day off to talk with God and relax.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother. They are the reason you are here in the first place. You can't dishonor your parents without dishonoring yourself. Have some self respect, and respect for your family.

6. Thou shalt not murder (by the way, that is what the original says). Why? Because if you murder someone, they might have friends or family that will come to kill you.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you are screwing around on your spouse, they, or the spouse of the person you're cheating with, might come after you to kill or injure you.

8. Thou shalt not steal. Why? Steal from the wrong person like a cartel or a drug dealer, and they will come to kill you.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Lie to the right person, and they might want to take you out. Same with lying to your doctor, because if you do that, he might misdiagnose you and you will die.

10. Thou shalt not covet. Why? Because if you covet something long enough that is not yours, then eventually it will lead to stealing or killing the person to get the thing you covet.

In reality, the 10 Commandments are there to ensure the survival of the human race.