It's easier to condemn homosexuality

[Syriusly]

Gays can marry, The law says so, so what? It's not normal natural or God honoring and every one (deep down) knows it.
Also, it enhances the spread of AIDS.

I don't believe in your god- nor do I care what you think is normal- being left handed is not normal.

IF marriage does anything, it encourages monogamy- which hopefully will reduce the spread of Aids.

However, even beyond that- tell me why you think the marriage of two lesbians 'enhances the spread of Aids'?

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

I don't believe that there is any god.

However, Jews believe that there is one God- and Jesus Christ is not his Messiah- they get to pick and choose.
Muslims believe there is only one God- and Jesus is a prophet- not a savior.
Hindu's believe in many gods- to them your god is nothing more than your imagination- or maybe an aspect of Shiva(?)

However, in the United States, we do not base our laws, including marriage laws, on one or all of many Christians interpretations of what the law should be.

 

[Bonzi]

Gays can marry, The law says so, so what? It's not normal natural or God honoring and every one (deep down) knows it.
Also, it enhances the spread of AIDS.

I don't believe in your god- nor do I care what you think is normal- being left handed is not normal.

IF marriage does anything, it encourages monogamy- which hopefully will reduce the spread of Aids.

However, even beyond that- tell me why you think the marriage of two lesbians 'enhances the spread of Aids'?

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

I don't believe that there is any god.

However, Jews believe that there is one God- and Jesus Christ is not his Messiah- they get to pick and choose.
Muslims believe there is only one God- and Jesus is a prophet- not a savior.
Hindu's believe in many gods- to them your god is nothing more than your imagination- or maybe an aspect of Shiva(?)

However, in the United States, we do not base our laws, including marriage laws, on one or all of many Christians interpretations of what the law should be.

we don't, yet, the reality is, there is One God

 

[Syriusly]

I don't believe in your god- nor do I care what you think is normal- being left handed is not normal.

IF marriage does anything, it encourages monogamy- which hopefully will reduce the spread of Aids.

However, even beyond that- tell me why you think the marriage of two lesbians 'enhances the spread of Aids'?

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

I don't believe that there is any god.

However, Jews believe that there is one God- and Jesus Christ is not his Messiah- they get to pick and choose.
Muslims believe there is only one God- and Jesus is a prophet- not a savior.
Hindu's believe in many gods- to them your god is nothing more than your imagination- or maybe an aspect of Shiva(?)

However, in the United States, we do not base our laws, including marriage laws, on one or all of many Christians interpretations of what the law should be.

we don't, yet, the reality is, there is One God

I really care if that is what you believe.

I only care if you insist that others act according to your belief in that God.

 

[The Great Goose]

Gay men are despised.

Now I'd understand if the OP was bitching about lesbians. They are brutes.

But suggesting that gay men have it great is jyst ridiculous.

 

[Bonzi]

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

I don't believe that there is any god.

However, Jews believe that there is one God- and Jesus Christ is not his Messiah- they get to pick and choose.
Muslims believe there is only one God- and Jesus is a prophet- not a savior.
Hindu's believe in many gods- to them your god is nothing more than your imagination- or maybe an aspect of Shiva(?)

However, in the United States, we do not base our laws, including marriage laws, on one or all of many Christians interpretations of what the law should be.

we don't, yet, the reality is, there is One God

I really care if that is what you believe.

I only care if you insist that others act according to your belief in that God.

I want others to love God and put their faith in him.
It is not my place to insist.

 

[Skylar]

I don't believe in your god- nor do I care what you think is normal- being left handed is not normal.

IF marriage does anything, it encourages monogamy- which hopefully will reduce the spread of Aids.

However, even beyond that- tell me why you think the marriage of two lesbians 'enhances the spread of Aids'?

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

I don't believe that there is any god.

However, Jews believe that there is one God- and Jesus Christ is not his Messiah- they get to pick and choose.
Muslims believe there is only one God- and Jesus is a prophet- not a savior.
Hindu's believe in many gods- to them your god is nothing more than your imagination- or maybe an aspect of Shiva(?)

However, in the United States, we do not base our laws, including marriage laws, on one or all of many Christians interpretations of what the law should be.

we don't, yet, the reality is, there is One God

That's certainly your belief. But realize that you're offering us your subjective faith as objective truth. And they aren't the same thing.

Nor can you establish your beliefs factually. Your argument is circular. With your evidence and your conclusion being the exact same thing.

This lacks much persuasive power to those who don't already think as you do.

 

[Boss]

Evercurious is bisexual who just happened to fall in love with a man who is a jealous type so I now live a "straight" life (we've been together 15 years now.) Prior to that I was in an open marriage with the father of my two children; and honestly had my husband been legally able to marry his other gal I would have been fine with it, though likely the other gal wouldn't have been so w/e. First husband and I had a very lovely marriage, had two wonderful kids as we'd intended, and we're fairly good friends even now that our boys have all grown up.

On the other hand, my adopted sister had to leave her home state, and family, to marry her girlfriend, and had to stay there because her home state would not recognize their civil union. The son of very good friends of the family had to leave his home state, and family, to marry his boyfriend, and again, had to stay there because his home state would not recognize his marriage. I actually /know/ people that these crappy laws hurt very well.

Additionally, outside my immediate "family" I've befriended hundreds of folks from the LGBT community over the years and I've heard their stories. One of them left the US for Europe because of anti-gay sentiment, one of them was fairly regularly beaten in the bathroom at school for being transgender, another was beaten up for wearing drag to a club, another nearly committed suicide because of being teased constantly in HS, another was hate by her own fucking parents for being a lesbian... I'm not an emotional person so I don't "wring my hands" over it, I get angry, because I see and hear what these people have to go through for no other reason than "gay sex is icky"

The double standard of it all makes me belief it's all bullshit, the whole fucking thing; I was fairly open about my bi-sexuality in HS (in the late 80's) I had girlfriends more than boyfriends and pretty much everyone in school knew it; no one really cared, if anything they thought it was sexy or w/e, most men fantasize about two women together or with them so that's socially okay - but a gay man? "ICK!! BURN THEM!!" It's a load of crap from a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned, sorry.

They say they're "protecting us" by stopping it, because their God is going to destroy the country/world, because gay men are "dangerous," or w/e bullshit, but the truth in prob. 99% of the cases is that they just think gay men are gross, nothing more. If God was going to "end" this country, then he would have done it in the beginning, because homosexuals have /always/ been here, and yet there /still/ no evidence of all the bullshit these fuckers fear monger in their protests and "arguments", and no evidence what so ever that their God gives a rats ass if a few people fall out of his flock. If he did then why didn't he stop the whole "freedom of religion" thing the founding fathers put in? Why did he leave it in? Free will. Yet the Christian's have no interest in "Free Will" only their personal /interpretation/ of Gods will.

If one wishes to get deeper into my "spiritual" thinking; personally I'm an agnostic, while I'm mostly scientific leaning, I figure that maybe, just maybe, there is something/someone out there who started all this, maybe it even guides us; but if that is the case, then it appears s/he wishes homosexuality to be accepted because it's happening all over the planet, not just here. This is not just /our/ supposedly "degenerating" society, but the will and voice of a global society that will become absolutely necessary in the long term of the human race. Ultimately, in my world view, belief system, or w/e your want to call it, we as a species absolutely must learn to accept each others differences; our different cultures, societies, languages, and our different religions, or lack there of, if we are ever going to have world cooperation/co-existence, if we're ever going to be able to make the transition into space living, if we're ever going to colonize another planet and ultimately save our species, as well as the species of every animal on this planet. If there is a "superior being" out there, then why did s/he make us smarter than the "animals"? So we could war with each other over who's god is better?? I believe that /if/ there is a "God" then we humans have been given higher intelligence /because/ we are tasked with ensuring that all "Earthlings" survive to eternity. We have the brain power to make it happen and even the foundations of the country that could support it, but instead of embracing the freedom that would allow that "advancement" as a species, we're too busy fighting with each other over stupid shit like who's loving and having sex whom. It's a waste of this country's "good" foundation to move backwards in "acceptance" of fellow man in all their differences.

I basically find the argument facetious and shortsighted for "peace," which is why I say that if /Christian's/ cannot accept those who are "different" or have "different beliefs" then they will cease to exist, because the bigotry and hatred they display regarding what two men thousands of miles away from them do, pretty much destroys any chance of any kind of world co-existence and cooperation - which ultimately leads to a path of non-existence for every species on this planet (albeit perhaps, if we're lucky in the Russian roulette of asteroid strikes, not for millions of years when the Sun swallows the planet.) I suppose ultimately that I do not believe that a God who would put us here simply to fight with each other over this kind of stupid shit until he let the sun destroy us is a "good" God to follow in the first place (which ultimately leads me to the idea/thought that it is not, in fact, /God/ who teaches this bullcrap, but rather men, weak scared men who want to maintain or gain control of other men and have no interest in actually "saving" anyone, souls or otherwise, but rather are only interested in pushing their personal agenda and beliefs at the time, no matter how unreasonable and unrealistic those personal beliefs and opinions are.)

I mean if we're going to talk stupid shit; how long before we blow up Japan for their encouragement of sex between 13 year olds? How long before we destroy the middle east because they don't believe in the Christian teachings? How long before we finish the job with the Native American "Pagans"? Where does it stop?

Again... I don't have a problem with removing government from the marriage business altogether. I don't think the government, at the federal level, has any power whatsoever when it comes to how we as individuals define marriage. That should be entirely up to us, and we should be free to believe whatever we want... If we believe homosexuality is wrong and there is no such thing as homosexual marriage... that should be respected. If we believe gay marriage is a beautiful thing between two people who love one another... that should also be respected.

It's clear that our laws and rules can't respect both views because they conflict. So it seems the reasonable and rational thing to do is find some way that we can all get along together and also have a society which we can coexist in. I don't know if it's the "ideal" solution but it seems to me that removing government from sanctioning all marriages and replacing government recognition of traditional marriages with a recognition of domestic partner contracts instead, is a way to ostensibly give everyone what they want. Churches and religious people get to keep the "sanctity of traditional marriage" so vitally important to their religious foundation, and LGBT couples have a mechanism by which they can obtain the benefits of traditional married couples.

PLUS.. there is an ADDED benefit to CUs... it opens the door to any number of domestic arrangements between two legal parties. A civil union contract could be used by an adult child caring for their aging parent, or two spinster sisters living together, or two eternal BFFs who have nothing but a platonic relationship. It's no longer about sexual behavior or romantic love, it's simply a legal contract without any binding emotional condition attached.

Unfortunately, whenever I have presented my idea, the response I get is the same from both sides. The religious people pushing to ban gay marriage say it's not acceptable and gay marriage proponents say it's not enough. It's almost as if the "activists" don't want to resolve the issue.

Despite the doubts, I have plenty of gay friends and I've watched them be discriminated against for a long time while this battle has raged on. It will continue to rage on as long as we allow it to because neither side is willing to give. So we can keep on fighting this fight, one side winning a 'victory' this year only to have it reversed next year, surrendering more and more of our freedom to government and courts where at the end of the day, no one has really gained any ground... OR... we can become reasonable people who approach this problem rationally and with the idea of trying to solve the problem and give everyone what they want.

That sounds great, until one realizes you've also said you are waiting for a law to be pushed allowing random gay men to put their penis in your mouth; that gays will not be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong; that same sex marriage will lead to legal pedophilia. You talk about your gay friends, how same sex marriage should be respected, in the same thread you denigrate gays and say that marriage cannot be between two people of the same sex. Your statements on this subject fluctuate wildly.

You don't know what I'm talking about because you're not reading what I'm talking about with an open mind. You've decided, like all other gay marriage fanatics, that I am a bigoted homophobe and so nothing I can post can be anything other than bigoted homophobia.

All I've done is try to illustrate to you how it's a really stupid idea to put government and courts in charge of deciding what we can call marriage and also demanding they make their orders without respect to any religious morality. It's a really dumb idea to change the meaning of words so you can accommodate your sexual proclivity of choice. My point has been that this will ultimately lead to things you're very uncomfortable with but you've set the course.

Sorry, this post is bullshit. You've done far more than argue government should get out of the marriage business. You've argued that gays will never be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong. You've argued that same sex marriage is based on a sexual proclivity but opposite sex marriage is not. You've argued that gays are not looking for equality and will never be satisfied with whatever treatment they get under the law. You've argued that since marriage is now based on sexual proclivities (according to you) consent laws are going to be changed or done away with. You argued in the OP that the 'gay lobby' will push for laws to allow gays to orally or anally rape random people on the streets! How is that illustrating anything about the courts being involved in marriage?

If people think you are bigoted against homosexuals it is because you have made multiple statements which seem to denigrate or disparage gays. They have been quoted on more than one occasion.
Let's look at some again.

From a psychological perspective, they can never feel accepted because they know homosexuality is wrong. It simply doesn't matter how much effort is made to accept them, they can't accept themselves.

Seems to me, we've done ALL those things and still, we're being called bigots and homophobes. Unless we totally accept your behavior and restructure society so that gay people are treated superior to anyone else, you're not going to be happy. I don't even know if that would make you happy... I think you can't BE happy. You know what you are doing is wrong and you need validation... constantly... never-ending. Well, I am tired of placating you and pandering to your needs. Grow the fuck up and accept that some people don't approve of your sexual deviant behavior.

No, what you are witnessing is otherwise tolerant and rational people becoming frustrated because they can't ever seem to do enough for gays. You keep pushing and pushing for something you're never going to have...

You see, what you really want is to be accepted as normal... but you're not normal, are you? You realize what you do is wrong and abnormal for human beings and you seek to have your abnormal behavior accepted and legitimized... but you know that it never will be. No amount of tolerance will ever suffice, you'll keep on pushing until society pushes back, and they will.

Sorry, but I am a little concerned. Because, frankly... I don't see the difference between a person who prefers sex with same gender partners and a person who prefers sex with anything else.

Then there are the many times you've compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, and of course the OP where you talk about how much easier it would have been to continue to be intolerant of gays, how gays are going to push for laws allowing them to orally and anally rape strangers on the street.....do you see a trend here, a tone to many of your posts?

Sure, some of your posts seem reasonable. Sometimes you come off as perfectly tolerant of people's lifestyle choices. I'm not sure why you'd expect people to accept those posts and ignore the ones that indicate the opposite.

Let's go back to what I said in the beginning. Homosexuals are not going to be content with being allowed to marry. This "movement" you are a part of, is not going to stop at marriage laws. This is about forcing society to accept homosexual behavior. This is impossible due to the fact that most of us are moral people who fundamentally disagree with homosexual behavior. Our religions teach that it is wrong, our science teaches it is a deviant behavior. What we are doing is enabling the behavior to continue under the premise this is about some kind of right. We've changed the meaning of marriage to now include this behavior.

Homosexuals seek acceptance in society. That is what will make them content and happy and until that happens, they will continue to demand more and more in order to 'legitimize' themselves and their behavior.

 

[Syriusly]

Evercurious is bisexual who just happened to fall in love with a man who is a jealous type so I now live a "straight" life (we've been together 15 years now.) Prior to that I was in an open marriage with the father of my two children; and honestly had my husband been legally able to marry his other gal I would have been fine with it, though likely the other gal wouldn't have been so w/e. First husband and I had a very lovely marriage, had two wonderful kids as we'd intended, and we're fairly good friends even now that our boys have all grown up.

On the other hand, my adopted sister had to leave her home state, and family, to marry her girlfriend, and had to stay there because her home state would not recognize their civil union. The son of very good friends of the family had to leave his home state, and family, to marry his boyfriend, and again, had to stay there because his home state would not recognize his marriage. I actually /know/ people that these crappy laws hurt very well.

Additionally, outside my immediate "family" I've befriended hundreds of folks from the LGBT community over the years and I've heard their stories. One of them left the US for Europe because of anti-gay sentiment, one of them was fairly regularly beaten in the bathroom at school for being transgender, another was beaten up for wearing drag to a club, another nearly committed suicide because of being teased constantly in HS, another was hate by her own fucking parents for being a lesbian... I'm not an emotional person so I don't "wring my hands" over it, I get angry, because I see and hear what these people have to go through for no other reason than "gay sex is icky"

The double standard of it all makes me belief it's all bullshit, the whole fucking thing; I was fairly open about my bi-sexuality in HS (in the late 80's) I had girlfriends more than boyfriends and pretty much everyone in school knew it; no one really cared, if anything they thought it was sexy or w/e, most men fantasize about two women together or with them so that's socially okay - but a gay man? "ICK!! BURN THEM!!" It's a load of crap from a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned, sorry.

They say they're "protecting us" by stopping it, because their God is going to destroy the country/world, because gay men are "dangerous," or w/e bullshit, but the truth in prob. 99% of the cases is that they just think gay men are gross, nothing more. If God was going to "end" this country, then he would have done it in the beginning, because homosexuals have /always/ been here, and yet there /still/ no evidence of all the bullshit these fuckers fear monger in their protests and "arguments", and no evidence what so ever that their God gives a rats ass if a few people fall out of his flock. If he did then why didn't he stop the whole "freedom of religion" thing the founding fathers put in? Why did he leave it in? Free will. Yet the Christian's have no interest in "Free Will" only their personal /interpretation/ of Gods will.

If one wishes to get deeper into my "spiritual" thinking; personally I'm an agnostic, while I'm mostly scientific leaning, I figure that maybe, just maybe, there is something/someone out there who started all this, maybe it even guides us; but if that is the case, then it appears s/he wishes homosexuality to be accepted because it's happening all over the planet, not just here. This is not just /our/ supposedly "degenerating" society, but the will and voice of a global society that will become absolutely necessary in the long term of the human race. Ultimately, in my world view, belief system, or w/e your want to call it, we as a species absolutely must learn to accept each others differences; our different cultures, societies, languages, and our different religions, or lack there of, if we are ever going to have world cooperation/co-existence, if we're ever going to be able to make the transition into space living, if we're ever going to colonize another planet and ultimately save our species, as well as the species of every animal on this planet. If there is a "superior being" out there, then why did s/he make us smarter than the "animals"? So we could war with each other over who's god is better?? I believe that /if/ there is a "God" then we humans have been given higher intelligence /because/ we are tasked with ensuring that all "Earthlings" survive to eternity. We have the brain power to make it happen and even the foundations of the country that could support it, but instead of embracing the freedom that would allow that "advancement" as a species, we're too busy fighting with each other over stupid shit like who's loving and having sex whom. It's a waste of this country's "good" foundation to move backwards in "acceptance" of fellow man in all their differences.

I basically find the argument facetious and shortsighted for "peace," which is why I say that if /Christian's/ cannot accept those who are "different" or have "different beliefs" then they will cease to exist, because the bigotry and hatred they display regarding what two men thousands of miles away from them do, pretty much destroys any chance of any kind of world co-existence and cooperation - which ultimately leads to a path of non-existence for every species on this planet (albeit perhaps, if we're lucky in the Russian roulette of asteroid strikes, not for millions of years when the Sun swallows the planet.) I suppose ultimately that I do not believe that a God who would put us here simply to fight with each other over this kind of stupid shit until he let the sun destroy us is a "good" God to follow in the first place (which ultimately leads me to the idea/thought that it is not, in fact, /God/ who teaches this bullcrap, but rather men, weak scared men who want to maintain or gain control of other men and have no interest in actually "saving" anyone, souls or otherwise, but rather are only interested in pushing their personal agenda and beliefs at the time, no matter how unreasonable and unrealistic those personal beliefs and opinions are.)

I mean if we're going to talk stupid shit; how long before we blow up Japan for their encouragement of sex between 13 year olds? How long before we destroy the middle east because they don't believe in the Christian teachings? How long before we finish the job with the Native American "Pagans"? Where does it stop?

Again... I don't have a problem with removing government from the marriage business altogether. I don't think the government, at the federal level, has any power whatsoever when it comes to how we as individuals define marriage. That should be entirely up to us, and we should be free to believe whatever we want... If we believe homosexuality is wrong and there is no such thing as homosexual marriage... that should be respected. If we believe gay marriage is a beautiful thing between two people who love one another... that should also be respected.

It's clear that our laws and rules can't respect both views because they conflict. So it seems the reasonable and rational thing to do is find some way that we can all get along together and also have a society which we can coexist in. I don't know if it's the "ideal" solution but it seems to me that removing government from sanctioning all marriages and replacing government recognition of traditional marriages with a recognition of domestic partner contracts instead, is a way to ostensibly give everyone what they want. Churches and religious people get to keep the "sanctity of traditional marriage" so vitally important to their religious foundation, and LGBT couples have a mechanism by which they can obtain the benefits of traditional married couples.

PLUS.. there is an ADDED benefit to CUs... it opens the door to any number of domestic arrangements between two legal parties. A civil union contract could be used by an adult child caring for their aging parent, or two spinster sisters living together, or two eternal BFFs who have nothing but a platonic relationship. It's no longer about sexual behavior or romantic love, it's simply a legal contract without any binding emotional condition attached.

Unfortunately, whenever I have presented my idea, the response I get is the same from both sides. The religious people pushing to ban gay marriage say it's not acceptable and gay marriage proponents say it's not enough. It's almost as if the "activists" don't want to resolve the issue.

Despite the doubts, I have plenty of gay friends and I've watched them be discriminated against for a long time while this battle has raged on. It will continue to rage on as long as we allow it to because neither side is willing to give. So we can keep on fighting this fight, one side winning a 'victory' this year only to have it reversed next year, surrendering more and more of our freedom to government and courts where at the end of the day, no one has really gained any ground... OR... we can become reasonable people who approach this problem rationally and with the idea of trying to solve the problem and give everyone what they want.

That sounds great, until one realizes you've also said you are waiting for a law to be pushed allowing random gay men to put their penis in your mouth; that gays will not be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong; that same sex marriage will lead to legal pedophilia. You talk about your gay friends, how same sex marriage should be respected, in the same thread you denigrate gays and say that marriage cannot be between two people of the same sex. Your statements on this subject fluctuate wildly.

You don't know what I'm talking about because you're not reading what I'm talking about with an open mind. You've decided, like all other gay marriage fanatics, that I am a bigoted homophobe and so nothing I can post can be anything other than bigoted homophobia.

All I've done is try to illustrate to you how it's a really stupid idea to put government and courts in charge of deciding what we can call marriage and also demanding they make their orders without respect to any religious morality. It's a really dumb idea to change the meaning of words so you can accommodate your sexual proclivity of choice. My point has been that this will ultimately lead to things you're very uncomfortable with but you've set the course.

Sorry, this post is bullshit. You've done far more than argue government should get out of the marriage business. You've argued that gays will never be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong. You've argued that same sex marriage is based on a sexual proclivity but opposite sex marriage is not. You've argued that gays are not looking for equality and will never be satisfied with whatever treatment they get under the law. You've argued that since marriage is now based on sexual proclivities (according to you) consent laws are going to be changed or done away with. You argued in the OP that the 'gay lobby' will push for laws to allow gays to orally or anally rape random people on the streets! How is that illustrating anything about the courts being involved in marriage?

If people think you are bigoted against homosexuals it is because you have made multiple statements which seem to denigrate or disparage gays. They have been quoted on more than one occasion.
Let's look at some again.

From a psychological perspective, they can never feel accepted because they know homosexuality is wrong. It simply doesn't matter how much effort is made to accept them, they can't accept themselves.

Seems to me, we've done ALL those things and still, we're being called bigots and homophobes. Unless we totally accept your behavior and restructure society so that gay people are treated superior to anyone else, you're not going to be happy. I don't even know if that would make you happy... I think you can't BE happy. You know what you are doing is wrong and you need validation... constantly... never-ending. Well, I am tired of placating you and pandering to your needs. Grow the fuck up and accept that some people don't approve of your sexual deviant behavior.

No, what you are witnessing is otherwise tolerant and rational people becoming frustrated because they can't ever seem to do enough for gays. You keep pushing and pushing for something you're never going to have...

You see, what you really want is to be accepted as normal... but you're not normal, are you? You realize what you do is wrong and abnormal for human beings and you seek to have your abnormal behavior accepted and legitimized... but you know that it never will be. No amount of tolerance will ever suffice, you'll keep on pushing until society pushes back, and they will.

Sorry, but I am a little concerned. Because, frankly... I don't see the difference between a person who prefers sex with same gender partners and a person who prefers sex with anything else.

Then there are the many times you've compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, and of course the OP where you talk about how much easier it would have been to continue to be intolerant of gays, how gays are going to push for laws allowing them to orally and anally rape strangers on the street.....do you see a trend here, a tone to many of your posts?

Sure, some of your posts seem reasonable. Sometimes you come off as perfectly tolerant of people's lifestyle choices. I'm not sure why you'd expect people to accept those posts and ignore the ones that indicate the opposite.

Let's go back to what I said in the beginning. Homosexuals are not going to be content with being allowed to marry. This "movement" you are a part of, is not going to stop at marriage laws. This is about forcing society to accept homosexual behavior. This is impossible due to the fact that most of us are moral people who fundamentally disagree with homosexual behavior. Our religions teach that it is wrong, our science teaches it is a deviant behavior. What we are doing is enabling the behavior to continue under the premise this is about some kind of right. We've changed the meaning of marriage to now include this behavior.

Homosexuals seek acceptance in society. That is what will make them content and happy and until that happens, they will continue to demand more and more in order to 'legitimize' themselves and their behavior.

Homosexuals from the beginning have asked for- and demanded- and fought- to achieve legal equality. Everything else you say is entirely your paranoia about homosexuals which was evident in the actual language of your hyperbolic OP.

From your quotes, it appears you will not be content until homosexuals are legally discriminated against again.

Selected quotes from your OP again

I am starting to think it would be easier for us to condemn homosexuality than to tolerate it.

One of these days, I look for some gay lobby to push for a law which allows gay men to openly shove their penis in your mouth or ass when in public, so as to accommodate their sexual urges...

When does society stand up and say, you know what? We're done being nice! Go to hell and take your cock-sucking perverted friends with you! WE don't have to tolerate YOU...

it's like offering kiddie porn to pedophiles.////

. It might just be easier to roll all this back and start over with the mindset that something is wrong with you gay people and we're not going to accept it into our culture anymore. If you don't like it, move to France or somewhere homosexuality is normal.

 

[Syriusly]

Evercurious is bisexual who just happened to fall in love with a man who is a jealous type so I now live a "straight" life (we've been together 15 years now.) Prior to that I was in an open marriage with the father of my two children; and honestly had my husband been legally able to marry his other gal I would have been fine with it, though likely the other gal wouldn't have been so w/e. First husband and I had a very lovely marriage, had two wonderful kids as we'd intended, and we're fairly good friends even now that our boys have all grown up.

On the other hand, my adopted sister had to leave her home state, and family, to marry her girlfriend, and had to stay there because her home state would not recognize their civil union. The son of very good friends of the family had to leave his home state, and family, to marry his boyfriend, and again, had to stay there because his home state would not recognize his marriage. I actually /know/ people that these crappy laws hurt very well.

Additionally, outside my immediate "family" I've befriended hundreds of folks from the LGBT community over the years and I've heard their stories. One of them left the US for Europe because of anti-gay sentiment, one of them was fairly regularly beaten in the bathroom at school for being transgender, another was beaten up for wearing drag to a club, another nearly committed suicide because of being teased constantly in HS, another was hate by her own fucking parents for being a lesbian... I'm not an emotional person so I don't "wring my hands" over it, I get angry, because I see and hear what these people have to go through for no other reason than "gay sex is icky"

The double standard of it all makes me belief it's all bullshit, the whole fucking thing; I was fairly open about my bi-sexuality in HS (in the late 80's) I had girlfriends more than boyfriends and pretty much everyone in school knew it; no one really cared, if anything they thought it was sexy or w/e, most men fantasize about two women together or with them so that's socially okay - but a gay man? "ICK!! BURN THEM!!" It's a load of crap from a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned, sorry.

They say they're "protecting us" by stopping it, because their God is going to destroy the country/world, because gay men are "dangerous," or w/e bullshit, but the truth in prob. 99% of the cases is that they just think gay men are gross, nothing more. If God was going to "end" this country, then he would have done it in the beginning, because homosexuals have /always/ been here, and yet there /still/ no evidence of all the bullshit these fuckers fear monger in their protests and "arguments", and no evidence what so ever that their God gives a rats ass if a few people fall out of his flock. If he did then why didn't he stop the whole "freedom of religion" thing the founding fathers put in? Why did he leave it in? Free will. Yet the Christian's have no interest in "Free Will" only their personal /interpretation/ of Gods will.

If one wishes to get deeper into my "spiritual" thinking; personally I'm an agnostic, while I'm mostly scientific leaning, I figure that maybe, just maybe, there is something/someone out there who started all this, maybe it even guides us; but if that is the case, then it appears s/he wishes homosexuality to be accepted because it's happening all over the planet, not just here. This is not just /our/ supposedly "degenerating" society, but the will and voice of a global society that will become absolutely necessary in the long term of the human race. Ultimately, in my world view, belief system, or w/e your want to call it, we as a species absolutely must learn to accept each others differences; our different cultures, societies, languages, and our different religions, or lack there of, if we are ever going to have world cooperation/co-existence, if we're ever going to be able to make the transition into space living, if we're ever going to colonize another planet and ultimately save our species, as well as the species of every animal on this planet. If there is a "superior being" out there, then why did s/he make us smarter than the "animals"? So we could war with each other over who's god is better?? I believe that /if/ there is a "God" then we humans have been given higher intelligence /because/ we are tasked with ensuring that all "Earthlings" survive to eternity. We have the brain power to make it happen and even the foundations of the country that could support it, but instead of embracing the freedom that would allow that "advancement" as a species, we're too busy fighting with each other over stupid shit like who's loving and having sex whom. It's a waste of this country's "good" foundation to move backwards in "acceptance" of fellow man in all their differences.

I basically find the argument facetious and shortsighted for "peace," which is why I say that if /Christian's/ cannot accept those who are "different" or have "different beliefs" then they will cease to exist, because the bigotry and hatred they display regarding what two men thousands of miles away from them do, pretty much destroys any chance of any kind of world co-existence and cooperation - which ultimately leads to a path of non-existence for every species on this planet (albeit perhaps, if we're lucky in the Russian roulette of asteroid strikes, not for millions of years when the Sun swallows the planet.) I suppose ultimately that I do not believe that a God who would put us here simply to fight with each other over this kind of stupid shit until he let the sun destroy us is a "good" God to follow in the first place (which ultimately leads me to the idea/thought that it is not, in fact, /God/ who teaches this bullcrap, but rather men, weak scared men who want to maintain or gain control of other men and have no interest in actually "saving" anyone, souls or otherwise, but rather are only interested in pushing their personal agenda and beliefs at the time, no matter how unreasonable and unrealistic those personal beliefs and opinions are.)

I mean if we're going to talk stupid shit; how long before we blow up Japan for their encouragement of sex between 13 year olds? How long before we destroy the middle east because they don't believe in the Christian teachings? How long before we finish the job with the Native American "Pagans"? Where does it stop?

Again... I don't have a problem with removing government from the marriage business altogether. I don't think the government, at the federal level, has any power whatsoever when it comes to how we as individuals define marriage. That should be entirely up to us, and we should be free to believe whatever we want... If we believe homosexuality is wrong and there is no such thing as homosexual marriage... that should be respected. If we believe gay marriage is a beautiful thing between two people who love one another... that should also be respected.

It's clear that our laws and rules can't respect both views because they conflict. So it seems the reasonable and rational thing to do is find some way that we can all get along together and also have a society which we can coexist in. I don't know if it's the "ideal" solution but it seems to me that removing government from sanctioning all marriages and replacing government recognition of traditional marriages with a recognition of domestic partner contracts instead, is a way to ostensibly give everyone what they want. Churches and religious people get to keep the "sanctity of traditional marriage" so vitally important to their religious foundation, and LGBT couples have a mechanism by which they can obtain the benefits of traditional married couples.

PLUS.. there is an ADDED benefit to CUs... it opens the door to any number of domestic arrangements between two legal parties. A civil union contract could be used by an adult child caring for their aging parent, or two spinster sisters living together, or two eternal BFFs who have nothing but a platonic relationship. It's no longer about sexual behavior or romantic love, it's simply a legal contract without any binding emotional condition attached.

Unfortunately, whenever I have presented my idea, the response I get is the same from both sides. The religious people pushing to ban gay marriage say it's not acceptable and gay marriage proponents say it's not enough. It's almost as if the "activists" don't want to resolve the issue.

Despite the doubts, I have plenty of gay friends and I've watched them be discriminated against for a long time while this battle has raged on. It will continue to rage on as long as we allow it to because neither side is willing to give. So we can keep on fighting this fight, one side winning a 'victory' this year only to have it reversed next year, surrendering more and more of our freedom to government and courts where at the end of the day, no one has really gained any ground... OR... we can become reasonable people who approach this problem rationally and with the idea of trying to solve the problem and give everyone what they want.

That sounds great, until one realizes you've also said you are waiting for a law to be pushed allowing random gay men to put their penis in your mouth; that gays will not be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong; that same sex marriage will lead to legal pedophilia. You talk about your gay friends, how same sex marriage should be respected, in the same thread you denigrate gays and say that marriage cannot be between two people of the same sex. Your statements on this subject fluctuate wildly.

You don't know what I'm talking about because you're not reading what I'm talking about with an open mind. You've decided, like all other gay marriage fanatics, that I am a bigoted homophobe and so nothing I can post can be anything other than bigoted homophobia.

All I've done is try to illustrate to you how it's a really stupid idea to put government and courts in charge of deciding what we can call marriage and also demanding they make their orders without respect to any religious morality. It's a really dumb idea to change the meaning of words so you can accommodate your sexual proclivity of choice. My point has been that this will ultimately lead to things you're very uncomfortable with but you've set the course.

Sorry, this post is bullshit. You've done far more than argue government should get out of the marriage business. You've argued that gays will never be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong. You've argued that same sex marriage is based on a sexual proclivity but opposite sex marriage is not. You've argued that gays are not looking for equality and will never be satisfied with whatever treatment they get under the law. You've argued that since marriage is now based on sexual proclivities (according to you) consent laws are going to be changed or done away with. You argued in the OP that the 'gay lobby' will push for laws to allow gays to orally or anally rape random people on the streets! How is that illustrating anything about the courts being involved in marriage?

If people think you are bigoted against homosexuals it is because you have made multiple statements which seem to denigrate or disparage gays. They have been quoted on more than one occasion.
Let's look at some again.

From a psychological perspective, they can never feel accepted because they know homosexuality is wrong. It simply doesn't matter how much effort is made to accept them, they can't accept themselves.

Seems to me, we've done ALL those things and still, we're being called bigots and homophobes. Unless we totally accept your behavior and restructure society so that gay people are treated superior to anyone else, you're not going to be happy. I don't even know if that would make you happy... I think you can't BE happy. You know what you are doing is wrong and you need validation... constantly... never-ending. Well, I am tired of placating you and pandering to your needs. Grow the fuck up and accept that some people don't approve of your sexual deviant behavior.

No, what you are witnessing is otherwise tolerant and rational people becoming frustrated because they can't ever seem to do enough for gays. You keep pushing and pushing for something you're never going to have...

You see, what you really want is to be accepted as normal... but you're not normal, are you? You realize what you do is wrong and abnormal for human beings and you seek to have your abnormal behavior accepted and legitimized... but you know that it never will be. No amount of tolerance will ever suffice, you'll keep on pushing until society pushes back, and they will.

Sorry, but I am a little concerned. Because, frankly... I don't see the difference between a person who prefers sex with same gender partners and a person who prefers sex with anything else.

Then there are the many times you've compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, and of course the OP where you talk about how much easier it would have been to continue to be intolerant of gays, how gays are going to push for laws allowing them to orally and anally rape strangers on the street.....do you see a trend here, a tone to many of your posts?

Sure, some of your posts seem reasonable. Sometimes you come off as perfectly tolerant of people's lifestyle choices. I'm not sure why you'd expect people to accept those posts and ignore the ones that indicate the opposite.

, our science teaches it is a deviant behavior.

Our science teaches that being left handed is a 'deviant behavior'- and indeed that for instance- worshipping in a synagogue is a 'deviant' behavior- since 'deviant' when it comes to science merely means deviates from the mean.

So are you next going to start attacking other 'deviant' communities- should we left handers start looking over our shoulders- should Jews start boarding up the synogogues?

 

[Boss]

I don't believe that there is any god.

This tells us all we need to know about you. You're an idiot who believes in fantasies... like universes that pop into existence from nothing.

 

[Syriusly]

Evercurious is bisexual who just happened to fall in love with a man who is a jealous type so I now live a "straight" life (we've been together 15 years now.) Prior to that I was in an open marriage with the father of my two children; and honestly had my husband been legally able to marry his other gal I would have been fine with it, though likely the other gal wouldn't have been so w/e. First husband and I had a very lovely marriage, had two wonderful kids as we'd intended, and we're fairly good friends even now that our boys have all grown up.

On the other hand, my adopted sister had to leave her home state, and family, to marry her girlfriend, and had to stay there because her home state would not recognize their civil union. The son of very good friends of the family had to leave his home state, and family, to marry his boyfriend, and again, had to stay there because his home state would not recognize his marriage. I actually /know/ people that these crappy laws hurt very well.

Additionally, outside my immediate "family" I've befriended hundreds of folks from the LGBT community over the years and I've heard their stories. One of them left the US for Europe because of anti-gay sentiment, one of them was fairly regularly beaten in the bathroom at school for being transgender, another was beaten up for wearing drag to a club, another nearly committed suicide because of being teased constantly in HS, another was hate by her own fucking parents for being a lesbian... I'm not an emotional person so I don't "wring my hands" over it, I get angry, because I see and hear what these people have to go through for no other reason than "gay sex is icky"

The double standard of it all makes me belief it's all bullshit, the whole fucking thing; I was fairly open about my bi-sexuality in HS (in the late 80's) I had girlfriends more than boyfriends and pretty much everyone in school knew it; no one really cared, if anything they thought it was sexy or w/e, most men fantasize about two women together or with them so that's socially okay - but a gay man? "ICK!! BURN THEM!!" It's a load of crap from a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned, sorry.

They say they're "protecting us" by stopping it, because their God is going to destroy the country/world, because gay men are "dangerous," or w/e bullshit, but the truth in prob. 99% of the cases is that they just think gay men are gross, nothing more. If God was going to "end" this country, then he would have done it in the beginning, because homosexuals have /always/ been here, and yet there /still/ no evidence of all the bullshit these fuckers fear monger in their protests and "arguments", and no evidence what so ever that their God gives a rats ass if a few people fall out of his flock. If he did then why didn't he stop the whole "freedom of religion" thing the founding fathers put in? Why did he leave it in? Free will. Yet the Christian's have no interest in "Free Will" only their personal /interpretation/ of Gods will.

If one wishes to get deeper into my "spiritual" thinking; personally I'm an agnostic, while I'm mostly scientific leaning, I figure that maybe, just maybe, there is something/someone out there who started all this, maybe it even guides us; but if that is the case, then it appears s/he wishes homosexuality to be accepted because it's happening all over the planet, not just here. This is not just /our/ supposedly "degenerating" society, but the will and voice of a global society that will become absolutely necessary in the long term of the human race. Ultimately, in my world view, belief system, or w/e your want to call it, we as a species absolutely must learn to accept each others differences; our different cultures, societies, languages, and our different religions, or lack there of, if we are ever going to have world cooperation/co-existence, if we're ever going to be able to make the transition into space living, if we're ever going to colonize another planet and ultimately save our species, as well as the species of every animal on this planet. If there is a "superior being" out there, then why did s/he make us smarter than the "animals"? So we could war with each other over who's god is better?? I believe that /if/ there is a "God" then we humans have been given higher intelligence /because/ we are tasked with ensuring that all "Earthlings" survive to eternity. We have the brain power to make it happen and even the foundations of the country that could support it, but instead of embracing the freedom that would allow that "advancement" as a species, we're too busy fighting with each other over stupid shit like who's loving and having sex whom. It's a waste of this country's "good" foundation to move backwards in "acceptance" of fellow man in all their differences.

I basically find the argument facetious and shortsighted for "peace," which is why I say that if /Christian's/ cannot accept those who are "different" or have "different beliefs" then they will cease to exist, because the bigotry and hatred they display regarding what two men thousands of miles away from them do, pretty much destroys any chance of any kind of world co-existence and cooperation - which ultimately leads to a path of non-existence for every species on this planet (albeit perhaps, if we're lucky in the Russian roulette of asteroid strikes, not for millions of years when the Sun swallows the planet.) I suppose ultimately that I do not believe that a God who would put us here simply to fight with each other over this kind of stupid shit until he let the sun destroy us is a "good" God to follow in the first place (which ultimately leads me to the idea/thought that it is not, in fact, /God/ who teaches this bullcrap, but rather men, weak scared men who want to maintain or gain control of other men and have no interest in actually "saving" anyone, souls or otherwise, but rather are only interested in pushing their personal agenda and beliefs at the time, no matter how unreasonable and unrealistic those personal beliefs and opinions are.)

I mean if we're going to talk stupid shit; how long before we blow up Japan for their encouragement of sex between 13 year olds? How long before we destroy the middle east because they don't believe in the Christian teachings? How long before we finish the job with the Native American "Pagans"? Where does it stop?

Again... I don't have a problem with removing government from the marriage business altogether. I don't think the government, at the federal level, has any power whatsoever when it comes to how we as individuals define marriage. That should be entirely up to us, and we should be free to believe whatever we want... If we believe homosexuality is wrong and there is no such thing as homosexual marriage... that should be respected. If we believe gay marriage is a beautiful thing between two people who love one another... that should also be respected.

It's clear that our laws and rules can't respect both views because they conflict. So it seems the reasonable and rational thing to do is find some way that we can all get along together and also have a society which we can coexist in. I don't know if it's the "ideal" solution but it seems to me that removing government from sanctioning all marriages and replacing government recognition of traditional marriages with a recognition of domestic partner contracts instead, is a way to ostensibly give everyone what they want. Churches and religious people get to keep the "sanctity of traditional marriage" so vitally important to their religious foundation, and LGBT couples have a mechanism by which they can obtain the benefits of traditional married couples.

PLUS.. there is an ADDED benefit to CUs... it opens the door to any number of domestic arrangements between two legal parties. A civil union contract could be used by an adult child caring for their aging parent, or two spinster sisters living together, or two eternal BFFs who have nothing but a platonic relationship. It's no longer about sexual behavior or romantic love, it's simply a legal contract without any binding emotional condition attached.

Unfortunately, whenever I have presented my idea, the response I get is the same from both sides. The religious people pushing to ban gay marriage say it's not acceptable and gay marriage proponents say it's not enough. It's almost as if the "activists" don't want to resolve the issue.

Despite the doubts, I have plenty of gay friends and I've watched them be discriminated against for a long time while this battle has raged on. It will continue to rage on as long as we allow it to because neither side is willing to give. So we can keep on fighting this fight, one side winning a 'victory' this year only to have it reversed next year, surrendering more and more of our freedom to government and courts where at the end of the day, no one has really gained any ground... OR... we can become reasonable people who approach this problem rationally and with the idea of trying to solve the problem and give everyone what they want.

That sounds great, until one realizes you've also said you are waiting for a law to be pushed allowing random gay men to put their penis in your mouth; that gays will not be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong; that same sex marriage will lead to legal pedophilia. You talk about your gay friends, how same sex marriage should be respected, in the same thread you denigrate gays and say that marriage cannot be between two people of the same sex. Your statements on this subject fluctuate wildly.

You don't know what I'm talking about because you're not reading what I'm talking about with an open mind. You've decided, like all other gay marriage fanatics, that I am a bigoted homophobe and so nothing I can post can be anything other than bigoted homophobia.

All I've done is try to illustrate to you how it's a really stupid idea to put government and courts in charge of deciding what we can call marriage and also demanding they make their orders without respect to any religious morality. It's a really dumb idea to change the meaning of words so you can accommodate your sexual proclivity of choice. My point has been that this will ultimately lead to things you're very uncomfortable with but you've set the course.

Sorry, this post is bullshit. You've done far more than argue government should get out of the marriage business. You've argued that gays will never be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong. You've argued that same sex marriage is based on a sexual proclivity but opposite sex marriage is not. You've argued that gays are not looking for equality and will never be satisfied with whatever treatment they get under the law. You've argued that since marriage is now based on sexual proclivities (according to you) consent laws are going to be changed or done away with. You argued in the OP that the 'gay lobby' will push for laws to allow gays to orally or anally rape random people on the streets! How is that illustrating anything about the courts being involved in marriage?

If people think you are bigoted against homosexuals it is because you have made multiple statements which seem to denigrate or disparage gays. They have been quoted on more than one occasion.
Let's look at some again.

From a psychological perspective, they can never feel accepted because they know homosexuality is wrong. It simply doesn't matter how much effort is made to accept them, they can't accept themselves.

Seems to me, we've done ALL those things and still, we're being called bigots and homophobes. Unless we totally accept your behavior and restructure society so that gay people are treated superior to anyone else, you're not going to be happy. I don't even know if that would make you happy... I think you can't BE happy. You know what you are doing is wrong and you need validation... constantly... never-ending. Well, I am tired of placating you and pandering to your needs. Grow the fuck up and accept that some people don't approve of your sexual deviant behavior.

No, what you are witnessing is otherwise tolerant and rational people becoming frustrated because they can't ever seem to do enough for gays. You keep pushing and pushing for something you're never going to have...

You see, what you really want is to be accepted as normal... but you're not normal, are you? You realize what you do is wrong and abnormal for human beings and you seek to have your abnormal behavior accepted and legitimized... but you know that it never will be. No amount of tolerance will ever suffice, you'll keep on pushing until society pushes back, and they will.

Sorry, but I am a little concerned. Because, frankly... I don't see the difference between a person who prefers sex with same gender partners and a person who prefers sex with anything else.

Then there are the many times you've compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, and of course the OP where you talk about how much easier it would have been to continue to be intolerant of gays, how gays are going to push for laws allowing them to orally and anally rape strangers on the street.....do you see a trend here, a tone to many of your posts?

Sure, some of your posts seem reasonable. Sometimes you come off as perfectly tolerant of people's lifestyle choices. I'm not sure why you'd expect people to accept those posts and ignore the ones that indicate the opposite.

This is impossible due to the fact that most of us are moral people who fundamentally disagree with homosexual behavior..

I don't know who that 'us' is that you refer to- I haven't seen anything to indicate you are a 'moral' person from your first post where you posited that homosexuals were going to be trying to force straight men to have sex with them.

But 'most of us' just want Americans who are homosexuals to be treated equally.

The Post-ABC poll finds 61 percent of Americans support allowing gays to marry and 35 percent are opposed. Support is up only slightly from last year but is a reversal from public sentiment a decade ago, when opponents outnumbered supporters 58 percent to 39 percent.

Poll: Gay-marriage support at record high

And most Americans find homosexuality morally acceptable

"Do you personally believe gay or lesbian relations are morally acceptable or morally wrong?

2013- 59% yes, 37% no, 4% undecided.

"We" disagree with your bigotry.

 

[Syriusly]

I don't believe that there is any god.

This tells us all we need to know about you. You're an idiot who believes in fantasies... like universes that pop into existence from nothing.

LOL.

And what pray tell do you believe in?

Surely you can come up with as creative a story for your own beliefs as you have made for me.

 

[Boss]

Homosexuals from the beginning have asked for- and demanded- and fought- to achieve legal equality.

No... they had legal equality. There is nowhere in the country where homosexuals did not have the same access, rights or affording of the same opportunities as heterosexuals. They couldn't marry same-gender but no one could marry same-gender, that isn't marriage and hasn't been marriage for more than 5k years it has existed.

You've demanded that something be changed to include homosexual relationships. Then demanded the thing you changed to be codified into law, against the will of the people. And I will tell you, as sure as the sun rose today, this will not stand.

 

[Boss]

I don't believe that there is any god.

This tells us all we need to know about you. You're an idiot who believes in fantasies... like universes that pop into existence from nothing.

LOL.

And what pray tell do you believe in?

Surely you can come up with as creative a story for your own beliefs as you have made for me.

Oh, I believe in science, physics and logic, which all indicate a Creator.

 

[Seawytch]

In fact, I think your real problems just began

Examples?

 

[Seawytch]

Homosexuals from the beginning have asked for- and demanded- and fought- to achieve legal equality.

No... they had legal equality. There is nowhere in the country where homosexuals did not have the same access, rights or affording of the same opportunities as heterosexuals. They couldn't marry same-gender but no one could marry same-gender, that isn't marriage and hasn't been marriage for more than 5k years it has existed.

You've demanded that something be changed to include homosexual relationships. Then demanded the thing you changed to be codified into law, against the will of the people. And I will tell you, as sure as the sun rose today, this will not stand.

Your exact same argument was used to deny interracial couples. It eventually lost too.

 

[Seawytch]

Boss, you realize that the only thing you can do is amend the Constitution. Do you have any idea how that's done?

 

[Montrovant]

Evercurious is bisexual who just happened to fall in love with a man who is a jealous type so I now live a "straight" life (we've been together 15 years now.) Prior to that I was in an open marriage with the father of my two children; and honestly had my husband been legally able to marry his other gal I would have been fine with it, though likely the other gal wouldn't have been so w/e. First husband and I had a very lovely marriage, had two wonderful kids as we'd intended, and we're fairly good friends even now that our boys have all grown up.

On the other hand, my adopted sister had to leave her home state, and family, to marry her girlfriend, and had to stay there because her home state would not recognize their civil union. The son of very good friends of the family had to leave his home state, and family, to marry his boyfriend, and again, had to stay there because his home state would not recognize his marriage. I actually /know/ people that these crappy laws hurt very well.

Additionally, outside my immediate "family" I've befriended hundreds of folks from the LGBT community over the years and I've heard their stories. One of them left the US for Europe because of anti-gay sentiment, one of them was fairly regularly beaten in the bathroom at school for being transgender, another was beaten up for wearing drag to a club, another nearly committed suicide because of being teased constantly in HS, another was hate by her own fucking parents for being a lesbian... I'm not an emotional person so I don't "wring my hands" over it, I get angry, because I see and hear what these people have to go through for no other reason than "gay sex is icky"

The double standard of it all makes me belief it's all bullshit, the whole fucking thing; I was fairly open about my bi-sexuality in HS (in the late 80's) I had girlfriends more than boyfriends and pretty much everyone in school knew it; no one really cared, if anything they thought it was sexy or w/e, most men fantasize about two women together or with them so that's socially okay - but a gay man? "ICK!! BURN THEM!!" It's a load of crap from a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned, sorry.

They say they're "protecting us" by stopping it, because their God is going to destroy the country/world, because gay men are "dangerous," or w/e bullshit, but the truth in prob. 99% of the cases is that they just think gay men are gross, nothing more. If God was going to "end" this country, then he would have done it in the beginning, because homosexuals have /always/ been here, and yet there /still/ no evidence of all the bullshit these fuckers fear monger in their protests and "arguments", and no evidence what so ever that their God gives a rats ass if a few people fall out of his flock. If he did then why didn't he stop the whole "freedom of religion" thing the founding fathers put in? Why did he leave it in? Free will. Yet the Christian's have no interest in "Free Will" only their personal /interpretation/ of Gods will.

If one wishes to get deeper into my "spiritual" thinking; personally I'm an agnostic, while I'm mostly scientific leaning, I figure that maybe, just maybe, there is something/someone out there who started all this, maybe it even guides us; but if that is the case, then it appears s/he wishes homosexuality to be accepted because it's happening all over the planet, not just here. This is not just /our/ supposedly "degenerating" society, but the will and voice of a global society that will become absolutely necessary in the long term of the human race. Ultimately, in my world view, belief system, or w/e your want to call it, we as a species absolutely must learn to accept each others differences; our different cultures, societies, languages, and our different religions, or lack there of, if we are ever going to have world cooperation/co-existence, if we're ever going to be able to make the transition into space living, if we're ever going to colonize another planet and ultimately save our species, as well as the species of every animal on this planet. If there is a "superior being" out there, then why did s/he make us smarter than the "animals"? So we could war with each other over who's god is better?? I believe that /if/ there is a "God" then we humans have been given higher intelligence /because/ we are tasked with ensuring that all "Earthlings" survive to eternity. We have the brain power to make it happen and even the foundations of the country that could support it, but instead of embracing the freedom that would allow that "advancement" as a species, we're too busy fighting with each other over stupid shit like who's loving and having sex whom. It's a waste of this country's "good" foundation to move backwards in "acceptance" of fellow man in all their differences.

I basically find the argument facetious and shortsighted for "peace," which is why I say that if /Christian's/ cannot accept those who are "different" or have "different beliefs" then they will cease to exist, because the bigotry and hatred they display regarding what two men thousands of miles away from them do, pretty much destroys any chance of any kind of world co-existence and cooperation - which ultimately leads to a path of non-existence for every species on this planet (albeit perhaps, if we're lucky in the Russian roulette of asteroid strikes, not for millions of years when the Sun swallows the planet.) I suppose ultimately that I do not believe that a God who would put us here simply to fight with each other over this kind of stupid shit until he let the sun destroy us is a "good" God to follow in the first place (which ultimately leads me to the idea/thought that it is not, in fact, /God/ who teaches this bullcrap, but rather men, weak scared men who want to maintain or gain control of other men and have no interest in actually "saving" anyone, souls or otherwise, but rather are only interested in pushing their personal agenda and beliefs at the time, no matter how unreasonable and unrealistic those personal beliefs and opinions are.)

I mean if we're going to talk stupid shit; how long before we blow up Japan for their encouragement of sex between 13 year olds? How long before we destroy the middle east because they don't believe in the Christian teachings? How long before we finish the job with the Native American "Pagans"? Where does it stop?

Again... I don't have a problem with removing government from the marriage business altogether. I don't think the government, at the federal level, has any power whatsoever when it comes to how we as individuals define marriage. That should be entirely up to us, and we should be free to believe whatever we want... If we believe homosexuality is wrong and there is no such thing as homosexual marriage... that should be respected. If we believe gay marriage is a beautiful thing between two people who love one another... that should also be respected.

It's clear that our laws and rules can't respect both views because they conflict. So it seems the reasonable and rational thing to do is find some way that we can all get along together and also have a society which we can coexist in. I don't know if it's the "ideal" solution but it seems to me that removing government from sanctioning all marriages and replacing government recognition of traditional marriages with a recognition of domestic partner contracts instead, is a way to ostensibly give everyone what they want. Churches and religious people get to keep the "sanctity of traditional marriage" so vitally important to their religious foundation, and LGBT couples have a mechanism by which they can obtain the benefits of traditional married couples.

PLUS.. there is an ADDED benefit to CUs... it opens the door to any number of domestic arrangements between two legal parties. A civil union contract could be used by an adult child caring for their aging parent, or two spinster sisters living together, or two eternal BFFs who have nothing but a platonic relationship. It's no longer about sexual behavior or romantic love, it's simply a legal contract without any binding emotional condition attached.

Unfortunately, whenever I have presented my idea, the response I get is the same from both sides. The religious people pushing to ban gay marriage say it's not acceptable and gay marriage proponents say it's not enough. It's almost as if the "activists" don't want to resolve the issue.

Despite the doubts, I have plenty of gay friends and I've watched them be discriminated against for a long time while this battle has raged on. It will continue to rage on as long as we allow it to because neither side is willing to give. So we can keep on fighting this fight, one side winning a 'victory' this year only to have it reversed next year, surrendering more and more of our freedom to government and courts where at the end of the day, no one has really gained any ground... OR... we can become reasonable people who approach this problem rationally and with the idea of trying to solve the problem and give everyone what they want.

That sounds great, until one realizes you've also said you are waiting for a law to be pushed allowing random gay men to put their penis in your mouth; that gays will not be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong; that same sex marriage will lead to legal pedophilia. You talk about your gay friends, how same sex marriage should be respected, in the same thread you denigrate gays and say that marriage cannot be between two people of the same sex. Your statements on this subject fluctuate wildly.

You don't know what I'm talking about because you're not reading what I'm talking about with an open mind. You've decided, like all other gay marriage fanatics, that I am a bigoted homophobe and so nothing I can post can be anything other than bigoted homophobia.

All I've done is try to illustrate to you how it's a really stupid idea to put government and courts in charge of deciding what we can call marriage and also demanding they make their orders without respect to any religious morality. It's a really dumb idea to change the meaning of words so you can accommodate your sexual proclivity of choice. My point has been that this will ultimately lead to things you're very uncomfortable with but you've set the course.

Sorry, this post is bullshit. You've done far more than argue government should get out of the marriage business. You've argued that gays will never be accepted because they know what they are doing is wrong. You've argued that same sex marriage is based on a sexual proclivity but opposite sex marriage is not. You've argued that gays are not looking for equality and will never be satisfied with whatever treatment they get under the law. You've argued that since marriage is now based on sexual proclivities (according to you) consent laws are going to be changed or done away with. You argued in the OP that the 'gay lobby' will push for laws to allow gays to orally or anally rape random people on the streets! How is that illustrating anything about the courts being involved in marriage?

If people think you are bigoted against homosexuals it is because you have made multiple statements which seem to denigrate or disparage gays. They have been quoted on more than one occasion.
Let's look at some again.

From a psychological perspective, they can never feel accepted because they know homosexuality is wrong. It simply doesn't matter how much effort is made to accept them, they can't accept themselves.

Seems to me, we've done ALL those things and still, we're being called bigots and homophobes. Unless we totally accept your behavior and restructure society so that gay people are treated superior to anyone else, you're not going to be happy. I don't even know if that would make you happy... I think you can't BE happy. You know what you are doing is wrong and you need validation... constantly... never-ending. Well, I am tired of placating you and pandering to your needs. Grow the fuck up and accept that some people don't approve of your sexual deviant behavior.

No, what you are witnessing is otherwise tolerant and rational people becoming frustrated because they can't ever seem to do enough for gays. You keep pushing and pushing for something you're never going to have...

You see, what you really want is to be accepted as normal... but you're not normal, are you? You realize what you do is wrong and abnormal for human beings and you seek to have your abnormal behavior accepted and legitimized... but you know that it never will be. No amount of tolerance will ever suffice, you'll keep on pushing until society pushes back, and they will.

Sorry, but I am a little concerned. Because, frankly... I don't see the difference between a person who prefers sex with same gender partners and a person who prefers sex with anything else.

Then there are the many times you've compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality, and of course the OP where you talk about how much easier it would have been to continue to be intolerant of gays, how gays are going to push for laws allowing them to orally and anally rape strangers on the street.....do you see a trend here, a tone to many of your posts?

Sure, some of your posts seem reasonable. Sometimes you come off as perfectly tolerant of people's lifestyle choices. I'm not sure why you'd expect people to accept those posts and ignore the ones that indicate the opposite.

Let's go back to what I said in the beginning. Homosexuals are not going to be content with being allowed to marry. This "movement" you are a part of, is not going to stop at marriage laws. This is about forcing society to accept homosexual behavior. This is impossible due to the fact that most of us are moral people who fundamentally disagree with homosexual behavior. Our religions teach that it is wrong, our science teaches it is a deviant behavior. What we are doing is enabling the behavior to continue under the premise this is about some kind of right. We've changed the meaning of marriage to now include this behavior.

Homosexuals seek acceptance in society. That is what will make them content and happy and until that happens, they will continue to demand more and more in order to 'legitimize' themselves and their behavior.

I'm part of a movement now? I didn't even know.

Here you are again, sounding anti-homosexual. When you say, "most of us are moral people who fundamentally disagree with homosexual behavior" you certainly seem to be saying homosexuality is immoral.

As Syriusly pointed out, being deviant is not wrong or immoral. Many things are deviant. Heroism is deviant behavior. Giving up organs for transplant is deviant behavior. Hell, remaining married for a lifetime might be considered deviant behavior based on all the times I've heard stats about divorce rates. And the USSC has already ruled that the right to privacy includes who consenting adults choose to have sex with out of the public eye. We've already gone over the fact that if opposite sex marriage is not about sexual behavior because homosexuals can enter into such a marriage, the same must be true in reverse; same sex marriage is not about sexual behavior because heterosexuals can enter into such a marriage.

The meaning of marriage was changed to include same gender marriage. Homosexual or heterosexual sex need not enter into it and is not part of the definition.

Of course homosexuals seek acceptance in society. Find any group of people that is not accepted and they will likely try to gain that acceptance; humans are social creatures in general. Guess what? They are gaining that acceptance. Homosexuality is far more accepted today than it was a few decades ago. The Obergefel ruling may be an outgrowth of that acceptance, so what? You may have a problem with homosexuality (you deny it but continue to talk about homosexuality as wrong and immoral) but the country as a whole is clearly moving towards being accepting.

 

[Montrovant]

Gays can marry, The law says so, so what? It's not normal natural or God honoring and every one (deep down) knows it.
Also, it enhances the spread of AIDS.

I don't believe in your god- nor do I care what you think is normal- being left handed is not normal.

IF marriage does anything, it encourages monogamy- which hopefully will reduce the spread of Aids.

However, even beyond that- tell me why you think the marriage of two lesbians 'enhances the spread of Aids'?

AIDS? maybe not Lesbian's but - God intended women to be a helpmeet for man. (marriage)
does it seem "natural" to you for a woman to be with a woman?
Do you think it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by 2 women?

Your god is not my god.

Whether something is natural depends on how you are defining that word.

If two women love and support a child, emotionally and financially, I think that is in a child's best interests.

There is only ONE GOD. We don't get to pick and choose

So you believe. Billions disagree with you.

 

[Syriusly]

I don't believe that there is any god.

This tells us all we need to know about you. You're an idiot who believes in fantasies... like universes that pop into existence from nothing.

LOL.

And what pray tell do you believe in?

Surely you can come up with as creative a story for your own beliefs as you have made for me.

Oh, I believe in science, physics and logic, which all indicate a Creator.

So you in your own words- you are an idiot who believes in fantasies...like creators that pop into existence from nothing.