It's June 4th!

[Glensather]

Tons of women sign the petition to end Women's Suffrage!

[youtube]-uPcthZL2RE[/youtube]

...I don't understand.
Why end it?

 

[rightwinger]

The history of which came to the 19th amendment certainly is clouded in ignorance. Sure, today, there would be no reason to keep women from voting AT THIS TIME. However, during that time period, it made perfectly good sense to keep women from voting.

Might have been a good day for America, but bad day for the American electorate.

At the time, the US was once again behind the power curve and decades late in giving women the vote when compared to other industrialized countries

 

[FireFly]

Tons of women sign the petition to end Women's Suffrage!

[youtube]-uPcthZL2RE[/youtube]

...I don't understand.
Why end it?

Obviously those women don't understand either. Or maybe they shouldn't be voting.

 

[Kondor3]

Well, one thing is sure... there would be a lot more jobs nowadays for unemployed men... ;-)

 

[Glensather]

The history of which came to the 19th amendment certainly is clouded in ignorance. Sure, today, there would be no reason to keep women from voting AT THIS TIME. However, during that time period, it made perfectly good sense to keep women from voting.

Might have been a good day for America, but bad day for the American electorate.

At the time, the US was once again behind the power curve and decades late in giving women the vote when compared to other industrialized countries

I think the question is: were the women of that day truly ready for the vote? Hell, I think there are some people today (across both genders, all races/creeds/sexuality/etc) that shouldn't vote because they're morons.

 

[AmazonTania]

*cut for length*

All that said, do you think that maybe the addition of the 19th amendment is what allowed women to be as involved in society as they are today? Or do you think it would have come about anyway?

Women were no more involved in society nor had all of the skills and advantages men did during the 1920's than they did during the 1950's or 60's for that matter.

I believe it was when a large number of women started entering the labour force during the second War World is what paved the way. I believe it was the decline of the American standard of living is what enhanced it (which started during the 70's). Before a single income could support an entire family. Today, both men and women have to work to support a family. There are some women who are raising a family on their own.

Many of this increased the woman's role in the American society. It didn't start simply because woman earned the right to vote.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

On the 4th day of June in 1919 ,congress passed the 19th amendment guaranteeing women the right to vote.

But, they're still fighting for equality.

My grandmother was a suffragette. She knew Eleanor Roosevelt and was as well informed and feisty when she died at the age of 88 as she was when she marched carrying a sign that demanded the vote.

 

[Glensather]

\
Women were no more involved in society nor had all of the skills and advantages men did during the 1920's than they did during the 1950's or 60's for that matter.

I believe it was when a large number of women started entering the labour force during the second War World is what paved the way. I believe it was the decline of the American standard of living is what enhanced it (which started during the 70's). Before a single income could support an entire family. Today, both men and women have to work to support a family. There are some women who are raising a family on their own.

Many of this increased the woman's role in the American society. It didn't start simply because woman earned the right to vote.

Hm... well, that's a good argument that I can't really rebuke in any way.
Would you agree, then, that perhaps the 19th Amendment should have been delayed for about 20 years?

I realize that we're looking at this with hindsight, mind you. No one then would have foreseen WWII (although with everything they did to Germany after the First, you think they would have seen this coming from miles away).

 

[AmazonTania]

The history of which came to the 19th amendment certainly is clouded in ignorance. Sure, today, there would be no reason to keep women from voting AT THIS TIME. However, during that time period, it made perfectly good sense to keep women from voting.

Might have been a good day for America, but bad day for the American electorate.

At the time, the US was once again behind the power curve and decades late in giving women the vote when compared to other industrialized countries

At the time, America also dominated the industrial revolution. This most likely wouldn't have been possibly if individuals who were not avast in the areas of business voting in general elections.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The history of which came to the 19th amendment certainly is clouded in ignorance. Sure, today, there would be no reason to keep women from voting AT THIS TIME. However, during that time period, it made perfectly good sense to keep women from voting.

Might have been a good day for America, but bad day for the American electorate.

At the time, the US was once again behind the power curve and decades late in giving women the vote when compared to other industrialized countries

Interestingly, blacks had the right to vote before women did.

 

[FireFly]

Before a single income could support an entire family. Today, both men and women have to work to support a family. There are some women who are raising a family on their own.

It's amazing with all the innovation & productivity improvements that both parents now have to work to raise a family. Either our lifestyles are richer or we are getting screwed. Of course the stay at home mom had to work harder back in the day.

 

[AmazonTania]

\
Women were no more involved in society nor had all of the skills and advantages men did during the 1920's than they did during the 1950's or 60's for that matter.

I believe it was when a large number of women started entering the labour force during the second War World is what paved the way. I believe it was the decline of the American standard of living is what enhanced it (which started during the 70's). Before a single income could support an entire family. Today, both men and women have to work to support a family. There are some women who are raising a family on their own.

Many of this increased the woman's role in the American society. It didn't start simply because woman earned the right to vote.

Hm... well, that's a good argument that I can't really rebuke in any way.

Would you agree, then, that perhaps the 19th Amendment should have been delayed for about 20 years?

I think it should have be given to women when they shown they have an active role in society. Could have taken 20 years, or 50 years.

I realize that we're looking at this with hindsight, mind you. No one then would have foreseen WWII (although with everything they did to Germany after the First, you think they would have seen this coming from miles away).

No one can be certain of the future. I generally think that it's better of have autonomy than democracy. For example, look at Hong Kong. They don't have the same freedoms as America. They don't even have democracy. But they have a high degree of autonomy which allows individuals to be free in their own society.

Plenty of citizens in America have very little autonomy. But as long as they have a voice in an election, that's all that really matters I suppose.

 

[Capstone]

Prohibition.

 

[AmazonTania]

But, they're still fighting for equality.

My grandmother was a suffragette. She knew Eleanor Roosevelt and was as well informed and feisty when she died at the age of 88 as she was when she marched carrying a sign that demanded the vote.

That's a nice anecdote.

Why do you believe women on average earn less than men?

 

[AmazonTania]

Before a single income could support an entire family. Today, both men and women have to work to support a family. There are some women who are raising a family on their own.

It's amazing with all the innovation & productivity improvements that both parents now have to work to raise a family. Either our lifestyles are richer or we are getting screwed. Of course the stay at home mom had to work harder back in the day.

Well, lifestyles are getting higher, but people are still getting screwed. The value of the dollar doesn't buy much these days.

 

[AmyNation]

Seems kind of silly to debate whether the 19th happened "at the right time".

It took over 20 years of active struggle for women to earn the vote. Sure many felt women didn't deserve it, weren't smart enough to handle it, and didn't have a need to have a say in the laws they had to live by and Im sure there were women who fell into those categories.

However, the vote wasn't just handed to silly headed girl children by overly benevolent men. It was earned, by women, and was a major stepping stone in the larger fight for general equality.

 

[Capstone]

[. . .]It took over 20 years of active struggle for women to earn the vote.[. . .]

...and it only took 'em a year to criminalize some of the things that made life a little more bearable for their men.

 

[AmazonTania]

Can you 'splain that for me?

Absolutely. The constitution gives specific rules on how your elected officials would be elected into office. The President was elected by the electoral college. The Senators were elected by the state legislator. The House of Representatives were elected BY THE PEOPLE. Not the men, but people.

Specific states had their own restrictions on voting. It didn't just target women, but all sorts of people. For example, some states required you to pay a poll tax. If you wanted to vote, you had to pay the tax. At the time, people gandered that you would be a more informed voter if you paid this tax. There were property requirements. States didn't want people voting who didn't own property. Literacy test were also a requirement. People wanted to know how competent a voter was before actually participating in their elections. And last, but not least, women were kept from voting, for obvious reasons.

Women back then, were obviously not like women today. Today, women are more involved in our society than ever before. Today, women have an active role in the workforce. They start their own careers. They work outside the home. They run businesses. They're more independent. They're even part of our military. Today, it makes absolutely no sense to keep women from voting, seeing as they are so involved in our society. The same wasn't true for women during late 1800's, early 1900's. Women back then didn't do any of the things that women are doing now. Therefore, it made zero sense having women vote when they don't own property, don't work outside the home, didn't pursue their own careers, or not involved in the work force what so ever.

I feel that many restrictions like these actually lead to good governance of the country. But since women were given the right to vote, voting restrictions were repealed state and nation wide to the point of where anyone can vote, as long as they are a citizen and are over the age of 18. As a result, our electorate is not as good, which you can obviously tell in more ways than one.

So no, I don't think women should be kept from voting now. But I understand why they were kept from voting in the past. The same reason why we keep children from voting now. At this point, the electorate can only get much worse when we start sliding down this slippery slope.

You’ve got to be kidding – this is nothing but conservative reactionary revisionism.

That's your opinion.

Literacy tests, poll taxes, and property requirements were specifically designed to prevent African Americans and other minorities from voting.

Period.

No, no they weren't. You just made that up.

Disallowing women to vote was predicated on the same ignorance and fear.

That the country can possibly enact inefficiency and terrible policy, thus turning the country into a shithole?

That's already happened.

 

[AmazonTania]

Seems kind of silly to debate whether the 19th happened "at the right time".

It took over 20 years of active struggle for women to earn the vote. Sure many felt women didn't deserve it, weren't smart enough to handle it, and didn't have a need to have a say in the laws they had to live by and Im sure there were women who fell into those categories.

However, the vote wasn't just handed to silly headed girl children by overly benevolent men. It was earned, by women, and was a major stepping stone in the larger fight for general equality.

How exactly was it earned?

 

[Dot Com]

Shouldn't it be New York City, NY, NOT New York, NY? Seems redundant.