It's Official: Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case -- February 26, 2024

[WorldWatcher]

Don't invest in real estate in New York.

"Don't invest in real estate in New York if you plan on conducting illegal business practices."


There finished it for you.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

Yes, and that restitution is subject to Constitutional and statutory limitations.

Correct, equal to the amount of the illegal profits gained since disgorgement/restitution is not punitive.

WW

 

[Flash]

This isn't a home mortgage, this is high finance investment banking. And no, you won't be arrested for selling your house for more than the appraised value.

The securing of lower rates wasn't based on the property, the lower rates were based on FPOTUS#45 personal guarantee back by net worth. By fraudulently inflating his net work using OTHER properties he put investors and insurance companies at higher risk and lower profits.

To back up that net worth he was required to file annual legal documents called "Statements of Financial Condition" as to his worth.

WW

It is the same damn thing.

You tell a bank how much your property is worth and then it is up to them to ascertain the value for any loan or collateral. It doesn't matter whether it is your home or a business loan or a real estate development loan. That is why the banks have property and asset appraisers.

Trump paid back the loans he got and there was no crime. Just Banana Republic oppression of Democrat political opponents.

Trump is being punished by the Democrats because he beat the shit out of Crooked Hillary and then showed up Gay Barry by fixing a lot of the things that Gay Barry broke.

Trump is a threat to the Democrats because he is successful and they destroy everything they touch. He even managed the Chinese Pandemic better than Potatohead.

You know who the Chinese are, don't you? They are the ones, along with the Russians and Ukrainians, that made the Potatohead family filthy rich. Amazing how their bio weapon resulted in their man being in the White House, isn't it? It is almost like it was the way they planned it. The Pandemic resulted in all the little shitheads in the Democrat control swing districts having mail in and harvested ballots, counted by Democrats, all marked for Potatohead. Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.

 

[Oldestyle]

I never said that the 8th Amendment doesn't cover Civil fines.

FPOTUS#45's judgement isn't a fine, it's a disgorgement which is a very different think and as the court said in Liu, ...
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WW

"...is awarded for victims..." Who are your "victims" that are going to receive this award?

 

[Catsnmeters]

I would not rely on 50 year-old case law if I was you. Kokesh and Liu have placed restrictions on disgorgements that were not in place in 1978.

Link.

I think you will find out they do. Also the statute of limitations in 28 USC 2462, see Kokesh.

So your contention is this disgorgement was past the SOL but the judge, defense, prosecutors and all the legal experts from both sides missed it?

I don't buy it.

The SCOTUS rejected that reasoning in Kokesh.

I am not sure how a claim can be made that the disgorgement was excessive when they were based on the amount of profits Trump recieved from the actual fraud.

So trump fraudulently represented his business and made 350 million for that fraud but he can't be disgorged of that amount; it has to be less?

What's the incentive to not commit fraud then?

 

[jc456]

You have not stated why the disgorgement was illegal. He can post collateral to support his appeal until it is heard.

sure I have. who is the victim? are you suggesting that there are victimless crimes?

 

[jc456]

I have no idea was MAL was worth in 1981.

It isn't part of the court record. The Palm Beach Tax Assessor valued it at 18 million in 2011 and (IIRC) 27 million in 2022.

But what the fair market appraisal values were from 2011 to 2022 would be higher than that. (Although no where near FPOTUS#45's 1.5 Billion.)

WW

I posted it. why didn't you watch the video I posted. Advertised by the New York Times.

 

[jc456]

Yeah, they haven't been told how this works in their world.

He hasn't even posted a bond yet, and it's gonna be tough for him to find a company that will take that risk.

Well, let 'em hope. Maybe they'll be a little less miserable for a while.

oh cool, so who is the victim?

 

[jc456]

From whom? What amount?

from trump. You have no brain huh? what is the title of the thread. hilarious shit you all always bring in. I never stop laughing.

 

[Mac1958]

oh cool, so who is the victim?

When state law is broken, the state is the victim.

You people keep dragging this dumb question out, only displaying your ignorance.

 

[WorldWatcher]

It is the same damn thing.

No really it's not.

If you want to compare it to a home mortgage then this is closer.

• House worth $400K
• Bank loans $380K
• Bank has $20K buffer in case of default to cover the outstanding principal
• Bank examines income and credit history to determine the * * * RATE * * * they will charge the lender as they assess risk.

The case isn't a about the properties of the loans, the case was about the RISK the investors and insurance companies were exposed to based on persistent fraudulent and illegal business practices cause by FPOTUS#45 inflating his net worth to achieve lower rates.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

"...is awarded for victims..." Who are your "victims" that are going to receive this award?

New York Law 62(12) authorizes the AG to file such civil suits for the people of New York.

WW

 

[Zincwarrior]

sure I have. who is the victim? are you suggesting that there are victimless crimes?

I am suggesting you haven't made a legal argument. Legal arguments will be made on appeal. You could always seek to represent him. Tell us how it works out.

A fair warning, now he is on the other end of his favorite game of delay. The state can drag it out too...

 

[Zincwarrior]

No really it's not.

If you want to compare it to a home mortgage then this is closer.

• House worth $400K
• Bank loans $380K
• Bank has $20K buffer in case of default to cover the outstanding principal
• Bank examines income and credit history to determine the * * * RATE * * * they will charge the lender as they assess risk.

The case isn't a about the properties of the loans, the case was about the RISK the investors and insurance companies were exposed to based on persistent fraudulent and illegal business practices cause by FPOTUS#45 inflating his net worth to achieve lower rates.

WW

If the Bank is prepared to loan you $500,000 because you say your income is $100,000 annually, but its really $25,000 thats fraud.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I am suggesting you haven't made a legal argument. Legal arguments will be made on appeal. You could always seek to represent him. Tell us how it works out.

A fair warning, now he is on the other end of his favorite game of delay. The state can drag it out too...

Zincwarrior

He's not really a poster worth having a conversation with, even when proven wrong he defects and then just sealions. Better to just scroll on past.

WW

 

[Rawley]

Literally irrelevant. To appeal he has to post.

LOL He was appealing the denial of the stay for posting the bond.

 

[Zincwarrior]

LOL He was appealing the denial of the stay for posting the bond.

And lost. Now he has to put collateral. You say Trump is rich, it should be no problem.

 

[jc456]

"Don't invest in real estate in New York if you plan on conducting illegal business practices."


There finished it for you.

WW

you haven't defined, nor has the state what was illegal?

 

[jc456]

I am suggesting you haven't made a legal argument. Legal arguments will be made on appeal. You could always seek to represent him. Tell us how it works out.

A fair warning, now he is on the other end of his favorite game of delay. The state can drag it out too...

I'm suggesting you have no victim so no crime. you can't even define the crime.

 

[para bellum]

Link.

Supreme Court Decides Kokesh v. SEC

Earlier this week, the U.S. Supreme Court (“Supreme Court”) issued its decision in Kokesh v. SEC, No. 16-529, unanimously holding that disgorgement claims brought as part of enforcement actions by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC” or “Commission”) operate as penalties and...

www.natlawreview.com

Liu v. Securities and Exchange Commission - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So your contention is this disgorgement was past the SOL but the judge, defense, prosecutors and all the legal experts from both sides missed it?

I don't buy it.

It wasn't missed, it was dismissed.

28 U.S. Code § 2462 - Time for commencing proceedings

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not sure how a claim can be made that the disgorgement was excessive when they were based on the amount of profits Trump recieved from the actual fraud.

So trump fraudulently represented his business and made 350 million for that fraud but he can't be disgorged of that amount; it has to be less?

What's the incentive to not commit fraud then?

There was no fraud by the common-law definition. Somewhere in NY Administrative Code, there is a regulation that says what these SFC statements are supposed to reflect. Trump probably violated that regulation. Somewhere in that chapter, it will say what the penalty for violating a business practice rule is- it usually is some notice to correct, followed by a financial penalty for each day you are not in compliance.