i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[AntonToo]

The USA did not accept the Soviet Union establishing a base in Cuba back in the 60s. The US and the Soviet Union almost went to war over this issue. Same thing in Ukraine. Russia does not accept the USA arming Ukraine and setting up a government friendly to the West. A US supported coup removed the Ukrainian president that was allied with the Russians. now zelensky is receiving billions of dollars from the USA.

What base was US establishing in Ukraine? What the hell are you talking about?

Ukraine was told by NATO that they do not qualify to join, what fucking base!?

 

[AntonToo]

Russia ready to discuss possibility of negotiations with Ukraine only in event of Kiev’s unconditional surrender, reduction in size of Ukrainian military, and country’s DENAZIFICATION - Russian Parliament International Affairs Committee Chairman Leonid Slutsky.

Moron, newsflash for you: Ukraine is not surrendering.

Take your idiotic Kremlin bs and go fuck yourself.

 

[Ringo]

Ukraine was told by NATO that they do not qualify to join, what fucking base!?

NATO also promised to Russia not to move to the east. Only an idiot can take the word of the scum and perverts leading NATO.

 

[AntonToo]

NATO also promised to Russia not to move to the east.

So what? Russia promisses false things and lies everyday.

It was a non-binding agreement and it was broken, tough shit. Countries asked NATO to let them join and NATO allowed them to join.

And whats the logic of Russian interest in invading Ukraine? INVASION ONLY EXPANDED NATO! As a direct consequence of this invasion Sweeden and Finland are joining now and Ukraine will be a member in a matter of a few years. Because guess what, when you are known to invade your neighbors they will seek PROTECTION by joining a strong alliance who's very mission is to protect it's members from Russian invasions.

 

[Ringo]

So what? Russia promisses false things and lies everyday.

I don't discuss with stinking, lying vlasovites. Fuk off, nit

 

[AntonToo]

I don't discuss with stinking, lying vlasovites. Fuk off, nit

It was you who quoted and replied to me, while I was addressing someone else, so absolutely you do. Right moron? The real reason you cut off my post is your total inability to refute what I've said about Russia's counter-productive invasion.

P.S. Vlasovite is a rare inosilicate mineral with sodium and zirconium....not much of an insult.

 

[Ringo]

P.S. Vlasovite is a rare inosilicate mineral with sodium and zirconium....not much of an insult.

Personally for you, stupid scum, I will write in Russian: Ты мерзкая власовская гнида. Not a mineral at all.

 

[ESay]

As Goebbels stated in the spring of 1945, "Anything can happen in this war, except unconditional surrender."

When your dirty troops will come around Kiev, you can try this shit again.

 

[AntonToo]

Personally for you, stupid scum, I will write in Russian: Ты мерзкая власовская гнида. Not a mineral at all.

You probably don't realize it but you are just posting insane ramblings.

We are civilians discussing politics, not some soldiers in the imaginary war in your head. You are not convincing anyone of anything except that you have mental issues.

 

[gipper]

By gosh, how dare we arm a country Russia is invading!? They have nukes don't you know, so we should just roll over all our interests and appease Putin's imperialist fixations.

Lol. Please outline EXACTLY what OUR interests are in Ukraine?

 

[gipper]

So what? Russia promisses false things and lies everyday.

It was a non-binding agreement and it was broken, tough shit. Countries asked NATO to let them join and NATO allowed them to join.

And whats the logic of Russian interest in invading Ukraine? INVASION ONLY EXPANDED NATO! As a direct consequence of this invasion Sweeden and Finland are joining now and Ukraine will be a member in a matter of a few years. Because guess what, when you are known to invade your neighbors they will seek PROTECTION by joining a strong alliance who's very mission is to protect it's members from Russian invasions.

Yeah tough shit Russia, but the USG will destroy any nation in the Western Hemisphere if it is it aligned with them.

Ever heard of the Monroe Doctrine?

Still waiting for all those “interests” Americans have in Ukraine.

 

[para bellum]

NATO also promised to Russia not to move to the east.

No they did not. Bush and Clinton gave assurances to that effect, not NATO.

The 1997 Founding Act between NATO and Russia, Russia agreed to:

"seek the widest possible cooperation among participating States of the OSCE with the aim of creating in Europe a common space of security and stability, without dividing lines or spheres of influence limiting the sovereignty of any state."

and to:

"refrain from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States
contained in the Helsinki Final Act; respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents"

 

[gipper]

No they did not. Bush and Clinton gave assurances to that effect, not NATO.

The 1997 Founding Act between NATO and Russia, Russia agreed to:

"seek the widest possible cooperation among participating States of the OSCE with the aim of creating in Europe a common space of security and stability, without dividing lines or spheres of influence limiting the sovereignty of any state."

and to:

"refrain from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States
contained in the Helsinki Final Act; respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents"

You think it’s perfectly okay for presidents to lie to foreign nations.

President’s promises to foreign nations mean nothing and you think that’s just fine.

 

[para bellum]

You think it’s perfectly okay for presidents to lie to foreign nations.

The whole NATO expansion meme is just an excuse. NATO is a defensive alliance (primarily a nuclear shield). That shield is what allows European nations to sign on to the NPT, because they do not need nukes themselves. Take away NATO, those countries would have to acquire nukes for their own protection.

Bush and Clinton are not NATO and sovereign nations have the inherent right to secure their own defense and enter into treaties with whomever they choose.

The USSR is gone. The 1991 borders are the new reality. The former SFR's are free to run their own affairs.

President’s promises to foreign nations mean nothing and you think that’s just fine.

Oh please. Putin has broken every International agreement of the 20th Century and some from even before that. You obviously think that is just fine...

 

[gipper]

The whole NATO expansion meme is just an excuse. NATO is a defensive alliance (primarily a nuclear shield). That shield is what allows European nations to sign on to the NPT, because they do not need nukes themselves. Take away NATO, those countries would have to acquire nukes for their own protection.

Bush and Clinton are not NATO and sovereign nations have the inherent right to secure their own defense and enter into treaties with whomever they choose.

The USSR is gone. The 1991 borders are the new reality. The former SFR's are free to run their own affairs.

Oh please. Putin has broken every International agreement of the 20th Century and some from even before that. You obviously think that is just fine...

Amazing the hypocrisy of some Americans.

 

[georgephillip]

What base was US establishing in Ukraine? What the hell are you talking about?

Ukraine was told by NATO that they do not qualify to join, what fucking base!?

The US and its NATO puppets have systematically trained and armed Ukraine's military since 2014 in hopes of provoking the sort of Russian response we see today; it's an old story that began with Operation Red Sox in 1949 with the goal of fighting for regime change in Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

In 2014, the 'decrepit' Ukrainian army hit the refresh button. Eight years later, it's paying off

"In 2014, the Obama administration provided US$291 million in assistance, and by the end of 2021, the United States had given a total of $2.7 billion in training and equipment.

"As part of this assistance, the United States helped train Ukrainian soldiers at the Yavoriv military base.

"The base quickly became a top-notch training center, where an estimated five battalions have trained annually since 2015.

"In 2016, Poroshenko asked for senior defense advisers from the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Lithuania and Germany to advise Ukraine on modernizing its armed forces with the goal of reaching NATO standards, rules and procedures by 2020..."

"Another important NATO standard was insuring that Ukraine was able to integrate its logistical support with other NATO units when deployed."

 

[AntonToo]

Lol. Please outline EXACTLY what OUR interests are in Ukraine?

Stable, developed democracy that shares our western values.

It's good for them and it's good for us.

You know who that's bad for? Putin, he well knows that a prospering Ukraine will be the end of his little kleptocracy. Ukranians are not the only ones looking westward.

 

[AntonToo]

The US and its NATO puppets have systematically trained and armed Ukraine's military since 2014 in hopes of provoking the sort of Russian response we see today;

Horseshit, we gave them some Javelins, which are small defensive weapons.

Ukraine had NOTHING to threaten Russia with and you have to be seriously ignorant to belive Putinist propaganda that a small country like Ukraine had any interest or means to attack nuclear armed Russia.

 

[ESay]

It is interesting to see how some Americans are embarrassed by violations of some promises made by some Western politicians to some Russian politicians.

Dudes, these promises were given by W H Bush and Kohl to Gorbachev when the Warsaw Pact was breaking down. Promises of politicians to other politicians.

These promises lost their relevance when these politicians went from the scene.

 

[gipper]

Stable, developed democracy that shares our western values.

It's good for them and it's good for us.

You know who that's bad for? Putin, he well knows that a prospering Ukraine will be the end of his little kleptocracy. Ukranians are not the only ones looking westward.

No. Those aren’t American interests. Plus Ukraine isn’t a democracy.

I thought kooky cons revered the Founders. You do know what they said about foreign interventions and war??? Well maybe not. I can inform if you if you like.