Jan. 6th, The Law, and Nancy Pelosi's Dereliction of Duty

[surada]

I am reading, from the time I responded the first time to this post. Not that this is related, this from the House Rules, but I am thinking of pelosi ripping Trump's speech as I read this from the House Rules. Which then will take another search to see if there are penalties to violating the House Rules.

I can say, Pelosi violated this rule.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/documents/Rules%20and%20Resources/118-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf

View attachment 940537

View attachment 940538

Trump is such a a boob. He handed out over 600 copies of his state of the union address.

 

[surada]

Well don't expect any different results. You can post all the actual factual data you can find but it won't make a bit of difference with the Trump haters and the the supporters already know the truth.

It doesn't matter anymore as I think it was FDR maybe, who cut an EO on using state militia troops in DC. It ended up as EO 11485 under Nixon and has been modified since. That EO and many in gov't who didn't have a clue to what COC and how it was supposed to roll are what caused the delay in response on J6.
Now those protocols have been streamlined since then.


Who probably are less in numbers than those creepy LGBTQ types.

They didn't attack the Capitol or try to overturn the election.

 

[Faun]

Really?

While there has been public criticism that it took the National Guard too long to get to the US Capitol on January 6 and help fend off the mob, testimony from former Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy, Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville and former acting Secretary of Defense Chris Miller states that this perception might be due to a simple misunderstanding of how the military works.

Miller approved the request for DC National Guard support at 3:04 p.m. on January 6. DC National Guard deployed from the armory shortly after 5:00 p.m. Miller attributed criticism around how long it took DC National Guard troops to reach the Capitol to “either hyper-politicization of the situation or an ignorance of how military operations work.”

Miller, McConville and McCarthy all stressed in testimony that they were on board with sending DC National Guard troops to support US Capitol Police when the request for assistance came on January 6, but a mission plan needed to be developed and communicated to DC National Guard troops before they could be deployed.

“I’ve been in a few riots and just having people show up without a plan and without mission intent, and having understanding of what is happening on the ground – you can just run to the sound of the gunfire, but usually it just doesn’t work. It’s not effective,” Miller said in testimony included in the report.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics/us-capitol-attack-intelligence-failures-senate-report/index.html

You appear thoroughly confused.

I said what I said in response to Miller not acting on Trump's suggestion of 10000 DCNG needed.

That happened before Sedition Day.

You're apparently so confused, you thought I was talking about Sedition Day.

 

[elektra]

No longer valid.

So many documents or manuals, rules, statutes, codes, (separate manuals of the same name?).

I think this shows the precedents are valid and used.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-HPRACTICE-118/pdf/GPO-HPRACTICE-118.pdf

HOUSE PRACTICE A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House

Over a thousand pages, the word, "precedents" appears 345 times

Nobody that I have seen has included a precedent in a comment on Jan. 6th. One can argue it is because they are not valid. I say they have not been used because nobody ever spent the time to look through all the documents. I researched many government webpages before I stumbled upon, Precedents. Nobody took hours, to read and learn that they even exist. And nobody has been challenged to show they are valid. I did not think that I would have to prove they are valid and in practice today.

I am using the precedents that show, that it is not unprecedented, not the first time Federal Troops have been deployed to the Capitol building.

I am using the House Practice to show that the Precedents are valid and used.

 

[Faun]

Which law and which precedents. I see this law reads as you say. So then the ball is dropped by the Capitol Police Board. Why did they not declare an emergency and authorize Federal Troops into the Jurisdiction of the Legislative Branch of Government.

§1970. Assistance by Executive departments and agencies​

(a) Assistance​

(1) In general​

Executive departments and Executive agencies may assist the United States Capitol Police in the performance of its duties by providing services (including personnel), equipment, and facilities on a temporary and reimbursable basis when requested by the Capitol Police Board or in accordance with paragraph (4) and on a permanent and reimbursable basis upon advance written request of the Capitol Police Board; except that the Department of Defense and the Coast Guard may provide such assistance on a temporary basis without reimbursement when assisting the United States Capitol Police in its duties directly related to protection under sections 1922, 1961, 1966, 1967, and 1969 of this title and sections 5101 to 5107 and 5109 of title 40.1 Before making a request under this paragraph, the Capitol Police Board shall consult with appropriate Members of the Senate and House of Representatives in leadership positions, except in an emergency.

Again, that bolded part requires them to consult with members of Congress in non-emergencies. They report to subcommittees in both chambers for appropriations.

What's your point?

 

[elektra]

The board reports only to subcommittees for appropriations

The we would need the House Rules, the Capitol Police Board rules and definitions. The Laws. The Precedents. The House Practice. To confirm or deny what you state.

This is an excellent point that I do need to reply to with more research and more links.

What I do know is that the Speaker of the House communicates directly with Sergeant at Arms. The Sergeant at Arms is one of the four members of the Capitol Police Board.

The Chief of the Capitol police does report imminent threats to the board hence the Sergeant at Arms.

The Sergeant at Arms then must inform the Speaker of the House, so that the Speaker of the House can decide to call and Emergency recess. An emergency recess is not the same as declaring an emergency which authorizes federal troops to be deployed into the Jurisdiction of the Legislative branch's jurisdiction. The Speaker only calls an emergency recess for the House of Representatives. The Senate has it's own sergeant at arms on the Capitol Police Board that would report to the Senate President or the Senate President Pro Tempore.

 

[elektra]

No longer valid.

From, House Practice, precedents are important, mandatory.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-HPRACTICE-118/pdf/GPO-HPRACTICE-118.pdf

 

[Delldude]

They didn't attack the Capitol or try to overturn the election.

True, they just focus on perverting and sexually maiming our youth, with democrat support.

I said what I said in response to Miller not acting on Trump's suggestion of 10000 DCNG needed.

He couldn't have deployed troops at 3:04pm on J6 without having previously acted on Trumps authorization................

 

[Delldude]

From, House Practice, precedents are important, mandatory.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-HPRACTICE-118/pdf/GPO-HPRACTICE-118.pdf

View attachment 940549

EO 11485 is the precedent.

 

[elektra]

No longer valid.

And, as I am being intellectually honest, I would be amiss if I ignore this, that I am quoting, because it may lend credibility to your statement that precedents are no longer valid. Some precedents are not valid, some are valid.

 

[elektra]

EO 11485 is the precedent.

I never argued who controls the National Guard. I have been what I thought is clear. The Executive branch controls the National guard.

The other statement I make in conjunction is, The Legislative branch has it's jurisdiction. I have included the law that defines the area, and the map.

The President, or the Department of Defense (both executive branch) can not deploy troops into the jurisdiction of the Legislative branch. Not without authorization of the Legislative branch.

EO 11485 (not a precedent but an order that does invalidate precedents), control of the National Guard (Federal troops is the term used in the laws, precedents, etc..) was never said by me, to be controlled by the Speaker. I have stated she must authorize. Not the same as control, if we are speaking in terms of the law, and referencing the law.

I will post and quote the link, only to save it for reference later. I do not disagree with anything in your post. EO 11485 is not in disagreement what I have been stating.

Executive Orders | National Archives

www.archives.gov

 

[Faun]

The we would need the House Rules, the Capitol Police Board rules and definitions. The Laws. The Precedents. The House Practice. To confirm or deny what you state.

This is an excellent point that I do need to reply to with more research and more links.

What I do know is that the Speaker of the House communicates directly with Sergeant at Arms. The Sergeant at Arms is one of the four members of the Capitol Police Board.

The Chief of the Capitol police does report imminent threats to the board hence the Sergeant at Arms.

The Sergeant at Arms then must inform the Speaker of the House, so that the Speaker of the House can decide to call and Emergency recess. An emergency recess is not the same as declaring an emergency which authorizes federal troops to be deployed into the Jurisdiction of the Legislative branch's jurisdiction. The Speaker only calls an emergency recess for the House of Representatives. The Senate has it's own sergeant at arms on the Capitol Police Board that would report to the Senate President or the Senate President Pro Tempore.

Oversight

Learn how oversight ensures that the USCP meets the safety and security needs of the Capitol Complex

www.uscp.gov

The United States Capitol Police (USCP) is overseen by the Capitol Police Board and has Congressional oversight by appropriations and authorizing committees from the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate. This oversight affords the Department the support and opportunity to continually ensure that the USCP meets the safety and security needs of the Congress, the staff, and the many visitors who come to the United States Capitol each day.

 

[elektra]

Oversight

Learn how oversight ensures that the USCP meets the safety and security needs of the Capitol Complex

www.uscp.gov

The United States Capitol Police (USCP) is overseen by the Capitol Police Board and has Congressional oversight by appropriations and authorizing committees from the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate. This oversight affords the Department the support and opportunity to continually ensure that the USCP meets the safety and security needs of the Congress, the staff, and the many visitors who come to the United States Capitol each day.

Yes, true, and that in no way contradicts what I stated.

 

[Faun]

True, they just focus on perverting and sexually maiming our youth, with democrat support.

He couldn't have deployed troops at 3:04pm on J6 without having previously acted on Trumps authorization................

False. The Secretary of the Army had authority to deploy the DCNG and he reported to Miller. All Miller had to was tell McCarthy to deploy them.

 

[Faun]

Yes, true, and that in no way contradicts what I stated.

What you said doesn't indicate which members of Congress they need to consult with. They reported to those subcommittees, not Nancy.

 

[elektra]

Again, that bolded part requires them to consult with members of Congress in non-emergencies. They report to subcommittees in both chambers for appropriations.

What's your point?

In emergencies and non-emergencies requests for assistance to the Executive branch of government must be in writing.
People argued that the Chief of Police could have ordered the National Guard to the Capitol grounds, he did not have that authority.

It has been shown in this thread, by those arguing, that the order allowing the National Guard, finally did come from the Speaker of the House.

I have not even begun with the laws rules precedents and practices of the capitol police board

It is obvious, that the sergeant at arms as a member of the capitol police board is representing the speaker

 

[Chillicothe]

"He had no authority in DC."

Actually, Don Trump as President of the United States had all the authority he needed to pick up the phone and call Mitch and Nancy and say: "Hey guys, looks bad over your way, what would you like to have the President of the United States, and Commander in Chief do?
Let's get our heads together and see how we can get the DOD to bring some force and order to that mob of seditionists, cop-batterers, and thieves. Let's be git-er-done executives. OK, guys?"

I'm pretty sure Don Trump had the authority to make that call.
I'm pretty sure the recipients would have welcomed the call.

But....................but, damningly, he didn't.
Instead, he sat on his hands and watched on the telly the attack on our legislators go on for about 187 minutes. 3 hours plus.
WTH!! What kind of "I-Alone-Can-Fix-It" leadership is that?


------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The democrats, proved that Trump did not incite the attack."

Actually, poster 'elektra' if you go read the Final Report of the J6 Committee you will learn otherwise.
Here's the link:

• 

  Select January 6th Committee Final Report and Supporting Materials Collection

  www.govinfo.gov

Too, you may wish to go back and re-watch all of the televised J6 Hearings.
Here's one compilation on YouTube. I'm confident you can find other 'full hearing' videos.

I can say, Pelosi violated this rule.

Well, I cannot.

However, I can say that Don Trump violated the rule, broke the law, by
...1. Ordering an illegal march down Pennsylvania Avenue on busy weekday.
2. by.... secretly planning for at least a week this illegal march and intentionally refusing to get the legally required permits which would have alerted law enforcement, and traffic control authorities.
3. by......not giving even an informal heads-up...a collegial phone-call to Capitol law enforcement or the Sergeants at Arms, or Mitch McConnell, or Nancy Pelosi.......that he was going to intentionally provoke a mob that he knew to be armed and then send them directly at our legislators sitting at the Capitol of the United States.

WTH!!
What kind of responsible leadership is that?

 

[elektra]

What you said doesn't indicate which members of Congress they need to consult with. They reported to those subcommittees, not Nancy.

Sergeant at Arms must report directly to the Speaker of the House during imminent threats, that is how the Speaker knows to make a decision to call an emergency recess. Anything less could result in the loss of life.

It may not have a record of being made, but as soon as the Chief of Police reported the imminent threat to the Capitol Police board, the Sergeant at Arms reported to Nancy Pelosi. I will go as far to say that it is the law. Reckless endangerment if the Sergeant at Arms did not report the first warning.

 

[sartre play]

I accidentally jumped the gun posting this thread. I should of had it deleted until I was better prepared to complete my posting of the relevant laws, precedents, and rules.

The Speaker of the House, authorizes the use of Federal Troops, through emergency procedures. Much is said about the 2 hour gap when the President said nothing. Is that 2 hours the time the president had to wait for The Speaker of the House to declare an emergency? We all know that Pelose literally hates and has extreme contempt for Trump. How did that contempt play into this?

 

[elektra]

Actually, Don Trump as President of the United States had all the authority he needed to pick up the phone and call Mitch and Nancy and say: "Hey guys, looks bad over your way, what would you like to have the President of the United States, and Commander in Chief do?

Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, 2nd in line of the presidency after the Vice President, has all the authority needed to pick up the phone and call the General in charge of the National Guard and authorize the deployment into the jurisdiction of the Legislative branch of government.

Nancy Pelosi, having eyes on the situation, through the Sergeant at Arms, the Chief of the Capitol Police, and the many windows of the Capitol building was in the position to determine exactly what danger the Capitol may or may not of been in.

Trump was not there.