Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[CrusaderFrank]

Start by letting people opt out: Hand over their SS fund, plus interest and they can't draw anything else from the system

How do you do that while still paying the people who are getting soc sec benefits and are already retired. WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

I thought there was a "Trust Fund"?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The MAJOR PROBLEM is when those investments flop and you've lost ALL that money...what do you do then???
Beg? Steal? Borrow? Vote republican?

Oh look... another half-bake that does not understand that "privatization", as set forth in the plan presented in 2005 and likely to be repeated in any plan signed into law, allows you to invest up to 1/3 of your 12.4% FICA contribution with the other 2/3 going into Social Security, from which you will still draw benefit.
And so, you will not loose all your money.
Glad to help you with your ignorance.

Actually, I FULLY understand the 2005 "plan"..

You clearly only understand what I have told you.

.as well as I understand the slippery slope that such a 1/3 investment entails....

You know that "slippery slope' is a logical fallacy, right?

Many retirees barely survive on $1200 per month...under the 2005 plan, they would receive $800 and use the other $400 to GAMBLE

That's not necessarily the case at all, as they can choose to not invest anything.
Of course, if you understood the plan you'd know that.
You'd also understand they aren't "gambling" with the $400 they would receive under SS, but the 4.13% they contribute, and aren't "gambling" any more than government employees that contribute to the government employee saving plan.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

if those getting ready to collect SS had put that money AWAY for themselves. they'd probably have a nice nest egg to live OFF OF. But since you gave it OVER to this Government, they now have to WORK until they are 90 because someone sure as hell can't RETIRE ON THE PIDDLE amount they are going to get back.

Pathetic, might as well tell all people living in poverty (More then half the world) that it is their fault, that they should have worked harder or invested in stocks.. Oh wait, idiots like you spew that garbage all the time.

I don't agree with Stephanie's postulate. I can't. This is one debate that is easily had on a spreadsheet. I can't disagree with it either.

You don't have spreadsheets to back up your claims (but what claims have you made ?). You call people idiots.

Why don't you and Stephanie both provide numbers or shut up.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How do you fund the transition M-14?

Why am I the only one who seems to know anything about this?
Why do people who know nothing about this oppose it?
Bush s plan for Social Security - Mar. 4 2005

From your link
"The White House in December indicated the government would borrow the money to make up for that shortfall"
Thank you for admitting the tubaguy was right, and you were wrong. Have a nice evening.

Um... what exactly was I wrong about?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Lets say that dimwits like M-14 retires.....what would stop him from "privatizing" and investing part of his SS in whatever scam he wishes? NOTHING......and it sounds reall good when you're 25 years old....its later in life that older people need some protection from the scammers of Wall Street.

You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Start by letting people opt out: Hand over their SS fund, plus interest and they can't draw anything else from the system

How do you do that while still paying the people who are getting soc sec benefits and are already retired. WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

I thought there was a "Trust Fund"?

The Trust Fund is no different than your bank account or your personal retirement fund. Pieces of paper saying someone owes you this or that amount of money.

 

[bendog]

Start by letting people opt out: Hand over their SS fund, plus interest and they can't draw anything else from the system

How do you do that while still paying the people who are getting soc sec benefits and are already retired. WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

I thought there was a "Trust Fund"?

The Trust Fund is no different than your bank account or your personal retirement fund. Pieces of paper saying someone owes you this or that amount of money.

It's not even that. What it is a bunch of federal debt the fed govt bought with our soc sec taxes, with the "promise" that when the debt is due they'll borrow the money from China or someplace to pay us benefits. Our children should kill us.

 

[nat4900]

lmao.
Does anybody understand why the right wants to do this?

Yes.
So that you have more, and the government has less, control over your money.

Government control over "YOUR MONEY"????
Does NOT the EMPLOYER also contribute the same percentage of salaries toward FICA???

Under your little plan, you'd be asking the employer to MATCH the funds you wish to gamble with.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

He's right they should, but it won't happen.

 

[nat4900]

We have developed 401ks and IRAs to encourage Americans to invest in the private sector for their retirement

These devices have replaced pensions in most companies. Social Security is the only source of dependable monthly retirement for most Americans

All Americans should be encouraged to have a retirement fund, Social Security and a paid off home to cover their retirement

"Dependable monthly income" ROFLAO!! WHen Obama threatened to withold checks, how dependable was it? A huge number of workers under 50 believe they will never see a penny of SS. The system itself projects its onw insolvency. That isnt dependable.
People need to be able to depend on themselves, not the government.

Yeah....walk into the nearest retirement home and tell folks with Alzeheimers' that "people need to be able to depend on themselvesmot the government's (Medicare and SS)......See how youll be cheered as a "hero."

Yes because everyone over 65 has Alzheimer's.
What a fucking dope

IDIOT.......you know (well, maybe not given your stupidity) that I'm talking about some 90 plus years old, checking the stock market every morning if their "private investments" have yileded enough to stay in that nursing home.

Im sure that happens every day.
You think SS payments are going to pay for Alzheimer's care in a private nursing home? You're an ill informed boob.

Your dumber than apile of feces.......

If your family wheels you in to a nursing home because of the onset of Alzheimer (which I think you may already have a touch of) the FIRST source of funding that nursing home will tap into is BOTH SS and Medicare.

 

[Windship]

Because they want the masses of easy to trick population to believe that Social Security is and investment program rather than way of financing retirement of senior citizens. SS is a system by which workers pay a tax that is used to finance pensions for older Americans, not a government operated pension portfolio managed by investments banks. They would prefer everyone pay investment brokers and banks to pay for a what turns out to be a very small amount of investment funds. You will learn very quickly that y
ou need to invest far more than what you pay in SS tax to create a credible investment portfolio that will allow you to retire with dignity, as is the purpose of SS.





YES!! ...and...all the money going to the stock market will be lost and aaaaaall those market players will have all of THAT money as well. The more money in the market? ...the more the "play market do nothing for free money" ppl will have. They want aaaaaall the money! And when they lose their money to the stock market?....what then?
The wealthy look down their noses at the working ppl building the business owners business and maybe making them wealthy while earning pennies and all the capitalists can think of is how to lower wages while requiring more hours to be worked.
The romantic renaissance of the blue collar worker is over.

 

[The Rabbi]

"Dependable monthly income" ROFLAO!! WHen Obama threatened to withold checks, how dependable was it? A huge number of workers under 50 believe they will never see a penny of SS. The system itself projects its onw insolvency. That isnt dependable.
People need to be able to depend on themselves, not the government.

Yeah....walk into the nearest retirement home and tell folks with Alzeheimers' that "people need to be able to depend on themselvesmot the government's (Medicare and SS)......See how youll be cheered as a "hero."

Yes because everyone over 65 has Alzheimer's.
What a fucking dope

IDIOT.......you know (well, maybe not given your stupidity) that I'm talking about some 90 plus years old, checking the stock market every morning if their "private investments" have yileded enough to stay in that nursing home.

Im sure that happens every day.
You think SS payments are going to pay for Alzheimer's care in a private nursing home? You're an ill informed boob.

Your dumber than apile of feces.......

If your family wheels you in to a nursing home because of the onset of Alzheimer (which I think you may already have a touch of) the FIRST source of funding that nursing home will tap into is BOTH SS and Medicare.

"You're", moron.
And you are wrong. And no one is wheeled into a nursing home because of the onset of Alzheimers. Quit posting in this thread. You are beclowning yourself.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

IDIOT.......Put that money away WHERE????

Under their mattresses?
On a bank CD yielding .05%?
Gamble it on the stock market?

Social Security's average rate of return per year is around 1.5%. The stock market's average rate of return per year is around 11%.

 

[Davey T]

At least give me the option.
I've done well "gambling"on the market.

"Gambling," Jefferson once said, "is a tax on the willing.."
Since games of chance REQUIRE many, many losers for the one "winner," the bit of money in retirement from SS is NOT the time or funds to go gambling.

Your first problem is a complete and utter ignorance on the stock market highlighted by the fact that you think it is 'gambling.'
One of the advantages in a privatized system is that people might actually get some exposure in the market and dispel that asinine idea that owning a piece of something is akin to gambling.

BUT omg HOW DARE someone suggest ss being privatized.

Let us know how we're going to pay for that.
Thanks.

That is why such a system needs to be phased in - they spent the money SS had brought in so there is nothing there to privatize but plenty of benefits owed.

It still has to be paid for if it is "phased in" . Please tell me where the money is coming from. None of you privatization junkies seem to be able to comprehend this. Privatizing social security means the current generation has to pay for retirement TWICE, unless you plan on increasing the deficit, which wouldn't surprise me, as the only two Presidents to reduce the deficit in the past 50 years were Democrats

Any privatization would be staged in where people under 50 can start weening themselves away from this immoral, corrupt system that takes your money and spends it, then tells you that it may not be able to pay it back. The system is bankrupt. Period.

 

[Camp]

IDIOT.......Put that money away WHERE????

Under their mattresses?
On a bank CD yielding .05%?
Gamble it on the stock market?

Social Security's average rate of return per year is around 1.5%. The stock market's average rate of return per year is around 11%.

What do those numbers even mean?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

The simple social security solution .....
Just raise the tax !!!!
Every leftist scumbag understands this.

 

[Camp]

At least give me the option.
I've done well "gambling"on the market.

"Gambling," Jefferson once said, "is a tax on the willing.."
Since games of chance REQUIRE many, many losers for the one "winner," the bit of money in retirement from SS is NOT the time or funds to go gambling.

Your first problem is a complete and utter ignorance on the stock market highlighted by the fact that you think it is 'gambling.'
One of the advantages in a privatized system is that people might actually get some exposure in the market and dispel that asinine idea that owning a piece of something is akin to gambling.

BUT omg HOW DARE someone suggest ss being privatized.

Let us know how we're going to pay for that.
Thanks.

That is why such a system needs to be phased in - they spent the money SS had brought in so there is nothing there to privatize but plenty of benefits owed.

It still has to be paid for if it is "phased in" . Please tell me where the money is coming from. None of you privatization junkies seem to be able to comprehend this. Privatizing social security means the current generation has to pay for retirement TWICE, unless you plan on increasing the deficit, which wouldn't surprise me, as the only two Presidents to reduce the deficit in the past 50 years were Democrats

Any privatization would be staged in where people under 50 can start weening themselves away from this immoral, corrupt system that takes your money and spends it, then tells you that it may not be able to pay it back. The system is bankrupt. Period.

The only people telling folks they aren't going to get their money back are the doomsday people. The system is far from bankrupt and any shortfalls in the future can be quickly rectified.

 

[FA_Q2]

It should be privatized and people be able to invest their money in a limited fashion. SS does not even give someone enough to live on let alone create real wealth for the one that is paying for it. There are many benefits a privatized system would have not the least of which is the possibility of passing that asset down to your children should you not utilize all of it.

It isn't intended to create wealth or provide something to pass onto one's children. It is intended to allow you to live when you can no longer work. It is intended to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly and that is it. If you want more, then you need to prepare for retirement. SS doesn't remove responsibility to plan for your future, it just creates a safety net so you don't end up in living in a cardboard box eating out of garbage cans.

And that is the entire damn point. First, they fail to achieve the 'safety net' you are talking about anyway considering that SS does NOT pay out enough to live decently. Second, the program removes SIGNIFICANT wealth from your possession thereby limiting your ability to build a REAL asset.

YOU pay for it - you should expect an asset WORTH what you pay.

Then the second problem rears its ugly head:

Imagine everyone's surprise when they discover government spent all the freaking SS money.

There's nothing surprising about it at all, SS is paygo and has been since inception.

Is it possible to privatize $2 trillion dollars of IOU's from congress? I don't think so.

Congress sells its IOUs all the time. If I'm not mistaken, its every Tuesday. Holy Lord you can't seriously be this stupid.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about

Imagine everyone's surprise when they discover government spent all the freaking SS money. Is it possible to privatize $2 trillion dollars of IOU's from congress? I don't think so.

The Social Security Trust Fund is invested in US treasuries, the safest investment in the world.

Do you deny that congress borrowed and blew $2 trillion dollars of OUR money from the trust fund and have no way of paying it back?

Do you have any idea how fixed income investments operate?

You are wrong. The US government can pay the 2 trillion back, since they don't have to lol.

That is right - they don't have to and that is exactly what they are going to do. Whenever the government gets into trouble with what it owes into SS they will CHANGE THE BENEFITS that you PAID FOR ultimately giving you less.

Unlike an actual annuity where you are guaranteed what you paid for the government is under no such obligation. They simply change the law regarding the 'insurance' they forced you to purchase at a horrible rate.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Start by letting people opt out: Hand over their SS fund, plus interest and they can't draw anything else from the system

How do you do that while still paying the people who are getting soc sec benefits and are already retired. WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

I thought there was a "Trust Fund"?

The Trust Fund is no different than your bank account or your personal retirement fund. Pieces of paper saying someone owes you this or that amount of money.

It's not even that. What it is a bunch of federal debt the fed govt bought with our soc sec taxes, with the "promise" that when the debt is due they'll borrow the money from China or someplace to pay us benefits. Our children should kill us.

Agreed. We should have had a revolution long before this gets bad.

 

[Uncensored2008]

We often disagree, but I noticed no one answered your question as to where the money would come from to pay current and near term retirees if we transitioned to privitization

From the much vaunted "trust fund."

You're not saying that Congress and Obama stole it and spent it, are you?