Zone1 Jesus was mean.. (I guess) because He said that anyone who does not accept the Gospel is condemned!

[1miseryindex]

Would you call a person who cannot love his or her God given LGBTQ+ child unclean?

Why do believers think their God creates souls of different values?

God only creates perfect souls. If not, why not?

don't get the Q

 

[1miseryindex]

This the truth that "sets you free" (John 8:31-32)..........Jesus was anything but tolerant when it came to teaching the gospel truth. He called those who corrupted the Holy Scriptures with man made traditions ".......vipers and hypocrites" (Matt. 23) Its not mean to provide a path to salvation through GRACE, as a gift from God......as none are worthy of salvation, all men sin. (Romans 3:10-20). Jesus confronted liars every time they challenged the Gospel truth........He even took a strap to the money changers in the Temple. (Matt. 21:12-13)

man made tradtions

NOT Godly ones

 

[GreatestIam]

don't get the Q

The answer is that if a religion tell you that you have to discriminate against your child if born LGBTQ+, it is a defective religion that likely believes someone else will die for that sin of theirs.

Any belief that puts sex and gender above love in value, --- is a garbage belief, --- be it religious or political.

Souls have no genitals.

 

[1miseryindex]

The answer is that if a religion tell you that you have to discriminate against your child if born LGBTQ+, it is a defective religion that likely believes someone else will die for that sin of theirs.

Any belief that puts sex and gender above love in value, --- is a garbage belief, --- be it religious or political.

Souls have no genitals.

no one is born gay. One may have some natural inclination toward femininity but that does not make one gay. That is a CHOICE.

Funny how so many choose that today, whereas 150 years ago, no one was gay.. or are we to believe they were just as numerous back then but afraid to come out?

I don't believe that for a minute. And also, life is nothing but choices... except that you cannot change your gender (w/o mutilating yourself and even then.........)

 

[Clyde 154]

How did the money changers in the Temple courtyard 'CHALLENGE' the 'gospel truth'?

It appears that you have never read and attempted to comprehend one passage from the N.T. before you attempt to declare that which you have never read....false due to personal hatred and bigotry.

The Christ personally "Chastised" the money changers for breaking the Law and the Prophets (As detailed in Matthew 23).........not for breaking the Gospel under the New Testament of Grace, which did not come into effect for the Jews until Jesus declared "It is finished"(John 19:30) with His last breath, after this the LAW and PROPHETS were nailed to the sacrificial cross of the Christ (Col. 2:14)


Jesus' mission on earth was not to destroy the LAW.............but to complete the terms thereof (Matthew 5:17) and present the perfect and permanent sacrificial offer to Heaven as the Lamb of God (John 1:29) The Law and the Prophets had no cure for sin due to the weakness of mankind in not obeying the righteous commandments of God. "For what the Law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sin (a man in the flesh), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." -- Romans 8:3 Until Jesus' sacrifice in taking the sin of the world upon Himself (2 Cor. 5:21).........there was no cure for sin, as all men sin. (Romans 5:12) If you say you have no sin you are lying to yourself and to God (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[1miseryindex]

Meriweather was correct that OP scripture cited does not support what I was saying.

I made a mistake--hard to believe!

Here are the scripture psgs I meant to quote instead:

• 
  Mark 16:16
  Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• John 3:18
  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So, what I quoted IS

in the Bible

+

 

[irosie91]

It appears that you have never read and attempted to comprehend one passage from the N.T. before you attempt to declare that which you have never read....false due to personal hatred and bigotry.

The Christ personally "Chastised" the money changers for breaking the Law and the Prophets (As detailed in Matthew 23).........not for breaking the Gospel under the New Testament of Grace, which did not come into effect for the Jews until Jesus declared "It is finished"(John 19:30) with His last breath, after this the LAW and PROPHETS were nailed to the sacrificial cross of the Christ (Col. 2:14)


Jesus' mission on earth was not to destroy the LAW.............but to complete the terms thereof (Matthew 5:17) and present the perfect and permanent sacrificial offer to Heaven as the Lamb of God (John 1:29) The Law and the Prophets had no cure for sin due to the weakness of mankind in not obeying the righteous commandments of God. "For what the Law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sin (a man in the flesh), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." -- Romans 8:3 Until Jesus' sacrifice in taking the sin of the world upon Himself (2 Cor. 5:21).........there was no cure for sin, as all men sin. (Romans 5:12) If you say you have no sin you are lying to yourself and to God (1 John 1:8-10)

I read it and know the christian interpretation. I also know a bit of the
actual history which you did not learn in Sunday school. In fact one genius
on this board came up with the idea that the 'money changers' were short
changing people' IN FACT, the money changers were CLIENTS OF ROME.
They were given what amounted to a pork-barrel job for their SUPPORT
OF ROME---just as were the appointed 'high priests' and even the KING.
The Pharisees HATED THEM. That which Jesus is said to have said about
the money changers was PHARISEE PARTYLINE. In the course of my life---
I have heard or read all kinds of silly things about the "money changers"---
they were "shylocks" or 'bankers' ---ie all kinds of antisemetic memes get
ascribed to them in English literature and church. Nope---they were
considered traitors ----especially by the PHARISEES. IMO--the attack on
the money changers nails Jesus for the Pharisee that he was and NAILED
him as an insurrectionist against Rome---(PS --I am not alone in that
opinion)

 

[hobelim]

Jonah and the big fish story are going to be a very painful and bitter pill for Christians to swallow, no matter how the it's manipulated to make it rational to believe.

Do you have any ideas for the rewrite?

Rome as well as many other more powerful and numerous nations than Israel were referred to in scripture as vicious and terrifying beasts in a time when there was no such thing as freedom of expression and people were imprisoned, enslaved, maimed, and killed for trivial reasons daily.

The true meaning behind being "in the belly of the beast" isn't really that hard to decipher.

Damn I did four days in the belly of the beast. Where in hell do you think you are? Take your time.

 

[irosie91]

Rome as well as many other more powerful and numerous nations than Israel were referred to in scripture as vicious and terrifying beasts.

The true meaning behind being "in the belly of the beast" isn't really that hard to decipher.

Damn I did four days in the belly of the beast. Where in hell do you think you are? Take your time.

Interesting take on the Jonah story----during the time when everything East, West, North, and South of Israel was an aggressive enemy

 

[Donald H]

Rome as well as many other more powerful and numerous nations than Israel were referred to in scripture as vicious and terrifying beasts in a time when there was no such thing as freedom of expression and people were imprisoned, enslaved, maimed, and killed for trivial reasons daily.

The true meaning behind being "in the belly of the beast" isn't really that hard to decipher.

Damn I did four days in the belly of the beast. Where in hell do you think you are? Take your time.

You either buy the story about living in a big fish's belly or you don't. Let me know soon!

 

[JohnDB]

 

[Clyde 154]

I read it and know the christian interpretation. I also know a bit of the
actual history which you did not learn in Sunday school. In fact one genius
on this board came up with the idea that the 'money changers' were short
changing people' IN FACT, the money changers were CLIENTS OF ROME.
They were given what amounted to a pork-barrel job for their SUPPORT
OF ROME---just as were the appointed 'high priests' and even the KING.
The Pharisees HATED THEM. That which Jesus is said to have said about
the money changers was PHARISEE PARTYLINE. In the course of my life---
I have heard or read all kinds of silly things about the "money changers"---
they were "shylocks" or 'bankers' ---ie all kinds of antisemetic memes get
ascribed to them in English literature and church. Nope---they were
considered traitors ----especially by the PHARISEES. IMO--the attack on
the money changers nails Jesus for the Pharisee that he was and NAILED
him as an insurrectionist against Rome---(PS --I am not alone in that
opinion)

As a Christian..........by command, all history pertaining to Christianity must come from the Word of God. The Christian is commanded, "Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us (the apostles of Christ) not to go beyond what is written...." -- 1 Cor. 4:6

IF.........(the biggest small word in the English Language), YOU KNEW what the scriptures historically recorded..........you would not have asked the question as to, "Why Jesus Chastised the Money Makers on the Temple grounds......" The Scriptures provide the answer. Question How do you know what knowledge someone possesses? Are you suggesting that you are CLAIRVOYANT?

Why did Jesus take a strap to the Jewish Money Changers...i.e, the bankers who made a profit by exchanging monies and goods?

IN REALITY; The answer to your query is found in the Jewish Law and the Prophets in the Word of God. It is written, Under Jewish Law all males were required (by the letter of the Law) to travel to the city of Jerusalem 3 times a years for certain Jewish Sabbaths ( Feasts/Holidays). -- Deut. 16:16-17 All Jewish males were commanded to bring their offerings as they had profited by the grace of God to offer as a sacrifice of their loyalty. This is the time period of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread...etc.,

Instead of obeying the Letter of the Law the Jews made it a TRADITION, that instead of actually bringing the food stuff, animals etc., to Jerusalem as commanded (Deut. 14:23-26), it became a matter of convenience.....instead of bringing these tokens or TITHES, the tradition was established to simply change money for these goods on the temple ground.........Thus, the Jews were not making money from the Romans because they used Roman currency....they were charging the people FEES for their exchange services, the buying and selling of these TITHES that were intended for God, not for the coffers of the money changers.

Jesus directly confronted these TRADITIONS and declared that they were making the LAW........the word of God....to NON EFFECT -- Mark 7:13 He called them a brood of vipers, hypocrites who took advantage of the people by their TRADITIONS. (Matthew 23, 24)......Jesus predicted this generation that He had taken a strap......would be punished by God and the Temple itself would not stand, not one stone would be left unturned.


History Actual records that Jerusalem and the Temple was destroyed in that very generation (70 AD) Again.....it would appear, IF you are attempting to argue about the history actual of the Holy Scriptures you might reference the actual Word of God instead of the history written by the TRADITIONS OF MEN. Can you deny that Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Roman Empire in the 1st century.......and its peoples scattered around the globe, just as God had promised would happen to Biblical Israel if it continued to disobey the Laws of God? (Lev. 26:27-39)

 

[irosie91]

As a Christian..........by command, all history pertaining to Christianity must come from the Word of God. The Christian is commanded, "Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us (the apostles of Christ) not to go beyond what is written...." -- 1 Cor. 4:6

IF.........(the biggest small word in the English Language), YOU KNEW what the scriptures historically recorded..........you would not have asked the question as to, "Why Jesus Chastised the Money Makers on the Temple grounds......" The Scriptures provide the answer. Question How do you know what knowledge someone possesses? Are you suggesting that you are CLAIRVOYANT?

Why did Jesus take a strap to the Jewish Money Changers...i.e, the bankers who made a profit by exchanging monies and goods.

IN REALITY; The answer to your query is found in the Jewish Law and the Prophets in the Word of God. It is written, Under Jewish Law all males were required (by the letter of the Law) to travel to the city of Jerusalem 3 times a years for certain Jewish Sabbaths ( Feasts/Holidays). -- Deut. 16:16-17 All Jewish males were commanded to bring their offerings as they had profited by the grace of God to offer as a sacrifice of their loyalty. This is the time period of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread...etc.,

Instead of obeying the Letter of the Law the Jews made it a TRADITION, that instead of actually bringing the food stuff, animals etc., to Jerusalem as commanded (Deut. 14:23-26), it became a matter of convenience.....instead of bringing these tokens or TITHES, the tradition was established to simply change money for these goods on the temple ground.........Thus, the Jews were not making money from the Romans because they used Roman currency....they were charging the people FEES for their exchange services, the buying and selling these TITHES that were intended for God, not the coffers of the money changers.

Jesus directly confronted these TRADITIONS and declared that they were making the LAW........the word of God....to NON EFFECT -- Mark 7:13

ok----you are wrong. The money changers exchanged foreign currency for
local currency so that PILGRIMS TO JERUSALEM could function in Jerusalem.
The money changers did profit from that which they did UNDER ROMAN
SUPERVISION AND CONTROL and they were APPOINTED BY ROME. They
had nothing to do with TITHES which consisted of agricultural products----
more comparable to the islamic "ZAKAT" than any gross profiteering
with which your mind is infected---with the CONSTANTINE VIRUS

 

[irosie91]

You either buy the story about living in a big fish's belly or you don't. Let me know soon!

considering the style that marks hebrew literature----IMO---HOBIE got it
right. I like the GOURD imagery, too. An interesting point---the name
JONAH means PIGEON (or dove)

 

[Libby von H]

True story.. I believe it is the last chapter of Matthew.. (Mt 28:20?)

He says He is with us always, until the End

Then he says to preach the Gospel to everyone. Those who accept and are BAPTIZED will be saved. Those who do not are condemned.

Yep, that Jesus... what a meanie

LOL

IF He wasn't the Son of God then you contradict yourself in 3 ways
1) How can you complain that someone said that but not that He said it as the Son of God !!!!!
2) Doesn't the fact that no one interprets your way --- doesn't that bother you ??? Here is the Catholic Catechism (based on this passage)
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men

3) But most of all, who doesn't wonder about your immaturity if you've first encountered this as an adult. I mean, really, just today you first came across this !! THen you must be not very much of a seeker to put it super-mildly

I am not insulting you, just pointing out that you paint yourself here as a tremendously trivial person.

 

[Clyde 154]

ok----you are wrong. The money changers exchanged foreign currency for
local currency so that PILGRIMS TO JERUSALEM could function in Jerusalem.
The money changers did profit from that which they did UNDER ROMAN
SUPERVISION AND CONTROL and they were APPOINTED BY ROME. They
had nothing to do with TITHES which consisted of agricultural products----
more comparable to the islamic "ZAKAT" than any gross profiteering
with which your mind is infected---with the CONSTANTINE VIRUS

So......you are calling the LAW and the PROPHETS wrong? LAMO And you claim to KNOW the HOLY SCRIPTURES? Did you not notice the Book, Chapter and Book provided that presented the actual answer as recorded in the Word of God? What? is it a tradition of the JEWS to continually blame others in remaining the perpetual VICTIM? Talk about playing the victim card. Why do you NEVER use the SCRIPTURES to present your argument? Simple......the scriptures contradict your TRADITION OF VICTIMHOOD. Because Roman Law allowed the JEWS to make a profit from the innocent people.........its the ROMANS that are to blame for Jewish Profit? Show us the Roman Law that made these money changers engage in usury.

 

[irosie91]

So......you are calling the LAW and the PROPHETS wrong? LAMO And you claim to KNOW the HOLY SCRIPTURES? Did you not notice the Book, Chapter and Book provided that presented the actual answer as recorded in the Word of God? What? is it a tradition of the JEWS to continually blame others in remaining the perpetual VICTIM? Talk about playing the victim card. Why do you NEVER use the SCRIPTURES to present your argument? Simple......the scriptures contradict your TRADITION OF VICTIMHOOD.

Where do you see "blame" and for what? You seem to believe that there
are Jewish laws that create the "job" of "money changer" and laws applying
to that position in the bible aka OT. Why advertise your ignorance? For
the record----MISHNAH is commentary often presented in the form of parables. Solomon the king did not really talk to ants

 

[Clyde 154]

Where do you see "blame" and for what? You seem to believe that there
are Jewish laws that create the "job" of "money changer" and laws applying
to that position in the bible aka OT. Why advertise your ignorance? For
the record----MISHNAH is commentary often presented in the form of parables. Solomon the king did not really talk to ants

 

[Clyde 154]

Of course there was NO LAW that allowed the practice of USURY.......thus, Jesus stated the obvious, the JEWS that were engaging in this TRADITION were making a mockery of the LAW and PROPHETS. I suggest a course in Comprehension 101. Again........Roman Law did not mandate the act of USURY, the Jews simply took advantage of Roman Law instead of obeying the Laws of God in relation to these commanded righteous Sabbaths.

 

[irosie91]

Of course there was NO LAW that allowed the practice of USURY.......thus, Jesus stated the obvious, the JEWS that were engaging in this TRADITION were making a mockery of the LAW and PROPHETS. I suggest a course in Comprehension 101. Again........Roman Law did not mandate the act of USURY, the Jews simply took advantage of Roman Law instead of obeying the Laws of God in relation to these commanded righteous Sabbaths.

more idiot jelly bean nonsense---the "money changers" did not engage in USURY----try to find the definition of Usury. The money changers were just as despised by the PHARISEES as were the "tax collectors" ---also clients of ROME and traitors but the issue was NOT USURY. DA JOOOOS as your idiot sunday school things taught you -----were not USING ROME----rome used the jews and then invented the FILTH of canon law which led INEVITABLY to the INQUISTION and the NUREMBURG LAWS