John Brown - Abolitionist

[Tommy Tainant]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

 

[Meathead]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

Don't be an idiot. No one killed slaves. Dead slaves had no value. In those days, black lives mattered.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

 

[rightwinger]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

Not many of them fought in the war

They let poor whites do the fighting

 

[rightwinger]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

Don't be an idiot. No one killed slaves. Dead slaves had no value. In those days, black lives mattered.

They had a very short lifespan

 

[Tommy Tainant]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

What laws ? There were no laws protecting black people. You talk about laws in a society run as a penal colony.

 

[SandSquid]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

So what you are saying is that when British Colonists took the law into their own hands and killed british soldiers to fight for their freedom, people like George Washington, a murderer, is only admired by "amoral primitives"?

To me, if the law is amoral, I don't think following it is the right thing to do. If the law says you have to round up the jews and send them to the concentration camps, I am ok with people who stood up to that with violence.

If the law states you can legally own other human beings for life, rape them, torture them, even punish them to death (killing a slave through correction was legal).

It appears your belief is that if the government made it legal to own and murder your family and friends, fighting back is an amoral choice. I guess for me, I would fight for their survival.

 

[SandSquid]

How is this character viewed in the US ?

Why is he not a hero ?

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

Don't be an idiot. No one killed slaves. Dead slaves had no value. In those days, black lives mattered.

Yes, they had value. Thats where that old saying "it was worth a half-cent to kill a ******, and a half-cent to bury one." came from.

They literally had laws that killing a slave through "correction" was not a crime.

They killed them by not allowing them to stop working in the last week of pregnancy.

They killed them by not allowing them food and medical care (about a 50% mortality rate for slave children, with malnourishment the primary cause of death).

They killed them by forcing mothers to wean at 5 months (even when doctors of the time recommended 8 months).

They killed them for trying to be free.

They killed them through punishment for those who were weak and unable to work as hard.

They killed them because blacks could not even charge a white person with murder. For someone to be charged with murder, another white person had to make the claim.




Here's a few stories from Frederick Douglass.. You really want to keep your position that people didn't murder slaves?

Mr. Gore once undertook to whip one of Colonel Lloyd's slaves, by the name of Demby. He had given Demby but few stripes, when, to get rid of the scourging, he ran and plunged himself into a creek, and stood there at the depth of his shoulders, refusing to come out. Mr. Gore told him that he would give him three calls, and that, if he did not come out at the third call, he would shoot him. The first call was given. Demby made no response, but stood his ground. The second and third calls were given with the same result. Mr. Gore then, without consultation or deliberation with any one, not even giving Demby an additional call, raised his musket to his face, taking deadly aim at his standing victim, and in an instant poor Demby was no more. His mangled body sank out of sight, and blood and brains marked the water where he had stood.

Mr. Thomas Lanman, of St. Michael's, killed two slaves, one of whom he killed with a hatchet, by knocking his brains out. He used to boast of the commission of the awful and bloody deed. I have heard him do so laughingly, saying, among other things, that he was the only benefactor of his country in the company, and that when others would do as much as he had done, we should be relieved of "the d——d *******."

The wife of Mr. Giles Hicks, living but a short distance from where I used to live, murdered my wife's cousin, a young girl between fifteen and sixteen years of age, mangling her person in the most horrible manner, breaking her nose and breastbone with a stick, so that the poor girl expired in a few hours afterward. She was immediately buried, but had not been in her untimely grave but a few hours before she was taken up and examined by the coroner, who decided that she had come to her death by severe beating. The offence for which this girl was thus murdered was this:—She had been set that night to mind Mrs. Hicks's baby, and during the night she fell asleep, and the baby cried. She, having lost her rest for several nights previous, did not hear the crying. They were both in the room with Mrs. Hicks. Mrs. Hicks, finding the girl slow to move, jumped from her bed, seized an oak stick of wood by the fireplace, and with it broke the girl's nose and breastbone, and thus ended her life. There was a warrant issued for her arrest, but it was never served.


Seventy-year old Robert Newsome bought 14-year old Celia and forced sexual relations on her immediately and repeatedly. One night when Newsome went to Celia’s cabin to abuse her, she struck him with a stick and killed him instantly. Celia was pregnant for the third time by Newsome and was very ill when he last approached her. At her trial, the court was concerned only with whether Celia had a right to defend herself against her master’s assault. The trial judge made it clear that Celia did not have that right. To the court, Celia had no sexual rights over her own body because she was Newsome’s property and she ought to have submitted to Newsome’s demands. Celia was guilty of murder and hanged 4 days before Christmas in 1855.


I'm sorry... It disgusts me that people will try and defend those things or rewrite history to say it never happened. So you are saying that those actions are acceptable?

 

[SandSquid]

He pursued his goals through murder and violence. I'm gonna say that any "nobility" about his goals is cancelled out by the evil of his means.

Geez, get a history book.

So George Washington pursued his goals of freedom through murder and violence. Therefore he is evil?

If you live in a country where they make the laws so it is legal to own your family and friends. Where it's legal to work and beat them to death. Where it's legal to rape your children and friends. So you believe that resisting that with violence if necessary is "evil".

 

[Mike Dwight]

HM? What about the Executives that get to interpret and Move the law? What about the English Civil War since this is "the greatest disturbers to peace since Oliver Cromwell" actually referencing King Charles? Just Courts under Oliver Cromwell returned power to Justice, or the COvenanters too. The Pope's Universal Nation and the Protestant Reformation? Confederates repeat these.

 

[Meathead]

Yes, they had value. Thats where that old saying "it was worth a half-cent to kill a ******, and a half-cent to bury one." came from.

That's a crock of shit. It cost half a cent to buy a bullet and half a cent to pay someone to dig a grave. You sure as hell couldn't buy a slave for half a cent. A dead one, maybe. There were no special rates for killing and burying slaves. As I said, blacks lives really mattered in those days. Today it's an insincere slogan and nothing more

 

[SandSquid]

Yes, they had value. Thats where that old saying "it was worth a half-cent to kill a ******, and a half-cent to bury one." came from.

That's a crock of shit. It cost half a cent to buy a bullet and half a cent to pay someone to dig a grave. You sure as hell couldn't buy a slave for half a cent. A dead one, maybe. There were no special rates for killing and burying slaves. As I said, blacks lives really mattered in those days. Today it's an insincere slogan and nothing more

I'm not the one who said it. That was Southerners in the time of slavery who said that. It was a phrase used to show that a slaves life had little value.

Now back to your claim that no one killed slaves....

Should we just erase all the lives of those slaves who were killed?

why do you think that they had to pass laws saying that if you kill a slave by punishing him too hard that is not a crime?

 

[Meathead]

Yes, they had value. Thats where that old saying "it was worth a half-cent to kill a ******, and a half-cent to bury one." came from.

That's a crock of shit. It cost half a cent to buy a bullet and half a cent to pay someone to dig a grave. You sure as hell couldn't buy a slave for half a cent. A dead one, maybe. There were no special rates for killing and burying slaves. As I said, blacks lives really mattered in those days. Today it's an insincere slogan and nothing more

I'm not the one who said it. That was Southerners in the time of slavery who said that. It was a phrase used to show that a slaves life had little value.

Now back to your claim that no one killed slaves....

Should we just erase all the lives of those slaves who were killed?

why do you think that they had to pass laws saying that if you kill a slave by punishing him too hard that is not a crime?

Race pimps making stuff up matter less than black lives even today. No one destroys their own property. That's why black lives did indeed matter more when they were slaves

 

[Cecilie1200]

The guy was Charles Manson before Charles Manson was Charles Manson.

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

What laws ? There were no laws protecting black people. You talk about laws in a society run as a penal colony.

The laws against killing people, dolt. Amazingly enough, just because you don't like the way one set of laws works, that does NOT invalidate all the other laws.

You talk about morals as if you wouldn't know one when it fell on you.

Just take it on faith from people who AREN'T giant, gormless bags of amoral garbage: killing people is not okay, and it's not an acceptable way to get laws changed, and it's not admirable and heroic. Write it down somewhere so you won't feel tempted to try to think for yourself on matters far beyond your intelligence or decency levels.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

What laws ? There were no laws protecting black people. You talk about laws in a society run as a penal colony.

The laws against killing people, dolt. Amazingly enough, just because you don't like the way one set of laws works, that does NOT invalidate all the other laws.

You talk about morals as if you wouldn't know one when it fell on you.

Just take it on faith from people who AREN'T giant, gormless bags of amoral garbage: killing people is not okay, and it's not an acceptable way to get laws changed, and it's not admirable and heroic. Write it down somewhere so you won't feel tempted to try to think for yourself on matters far beyond your intelligence or decency levels.

Its a shock to me that I have to ask this question.

Perhaps you could outline the legal remedies open to the likes of Nat Turner to get rid of slavery ?

 

[SandSquid]

Slave owners were legitimate targets.

Sorry, but there's nothing "legitimate" about murder. If you weren't so utterly lacking in both brains and morality, you wouldn't require someone to actually tell you that.

Killing slavers is ok. They were the ones who initiated the violence.

No, taking the law into your own hands and killing people is never okay. Again, it says a lot about you - and none of it good - that you have to have this explained to you. But it now makes sense why an amoral primitive like you would start a thread wondering why a man who was executed as a murderer isn't admired.

What laws ? There were no laws protecting black people. You talk about laws in a society run as a penal colony.

The laws against killing people, dolt. Amazingly enough, just because you don't like the way one set of laws works, that does NOT invalidate all the other laws.

Yes, those laws said you could kill black people in many cases. Now do you think a set of laws that says you can beat a black person to death if he needs punished is a moral law?

do you think the law that said if a black person you owned ran away you had to kill them is a moral law?

If a black person on your farm went to date a black person on another farm, you could beat them to death... Moral law?

Laws saying you could never free your slaves and had to will them to someone else and they could never leave subjugation... Moral law?

The legality of white men being able to rape black slaves, including children... Moral law?

 

[SandSquid]

Race pimps making stuff up

There we go... Frederick Douglass... the race pimp. Harriett Tubman... race pimp

Lets erase history instead of hearing something that makes us an unhappy snowflake.

Remove those kids grave markers maybe and get them out of here? Get some sharpies and write over the stories of brutality and death that slaves and others wrote about?
The actual court cases like Smith v. Hancock where owners got off murdering their slaves for attending a non-allowed meeting.
First class accomodations all the way from Africa, because if they'd ever lost a slave, that would be a travesty.
Rewrite all those black codes of course to something more happy.
Not sending slaves to the doctor to keep the costs down because as you said, thats money, and giving them home remedies instead and hoping for the best.

That's pretty fucked of you.

 

[Mike Dwight]

I don't want to make a new thread. I've had such trouble on something that is so simple! John Brown types are who've done it. Alright, some people that existed that you didn't even Want to exist. "Bonnie" Is an exclusive Scottish word. Harry McCarthy and his wife are Scottish from Ulster-Scots Ireland. Bonnie Blue Flag follows the confederating League and Covenant of the Covenanters , as if Scotsmen could disgrace the Church of Scotland in the first place? The Mostly Conservative Southern Population moved ever so slightly to be a "rebellion" and of course that Creative force is seen as the very spirit of rebellion? Two Presbyterian Established Churches would have social justice concerns above the total ignorance and disrepair, we can solve Presbyterian Korean American social issues. People act like they must Drop their Korean American voice when they arrive! Who would that Be?! I'm not a bleeding heart, I'm just stating facts. That would be ridiculous. Presbyterians would be in an agreement satisfying attitude above the actions and outlooks that the American Government provided. I mean you could read this documented in all the diplomatic cables from the Presbyterian mission back to the American Government. Obviously the American Government has different dividing concerns. So don't trust that the Prosecutor of the Korean War changing Religion In Office for Political Religious Leadership of America has a new or better paper-shuffle going on in the Presbyterians we're left with today, from the United Presbyterian Church to the PCUSA. Rebirthing Churches doesn't even happen, that doesn't exist. The Protestant Reformation has reasons and historical drawpoints from the Origins of Orthodoxy and original Christianity. It wasn't an Always Reforming Rebirth. [Stonewall Jackson, the "Blue-light Elder", the highest rank of a Presbyterian, who funded a local Colored Presbyterian Church, who led the Religious Affairs of Government in the Confederacy! He chose ministers in the whole army and his battleflag at his burial would be come the Confederate flag. Towns wept in the streets and it was the largest loss to the whole war ,a final loss. John Brown's are Successful! Totally and Completely Successful< because they will use, twist and use logic, that no, Diplomatic recognition cannot happen with Confederacy. That's just hard-coded, and Stonewall Jackson wouldn't have anything to say to this Yangban in Korea through Presbyterianism, qand African American slavery would still exist.] Well without Eisenhower's religious leadership where every Presbyterian joined a UNited Presbyterian Church of Eisenhower's leadership joined 1958 United Presbyterian Church in the United States of America - Wikipedia
The 80% remain in the PCUSA today of 1980's
Presbyterian Church (USA) - Wikipedia

Government historical revisionism is a Fact and not just for safety or you know, having people learn Useful things, or Smart things, way beyond that, they're totally going to distort everything for Current and foreign politics. Why, Catholic Countries it at least exists, they all meet and would agree. There is No Mistake or Superstition , obsolescence or irrelevancy that the 1st Moderator Horace Underwood in Korea, his #1 objective the Native Church to Koreans , so there you can Join or have Left a Church Foundation that the Presbyterian Church of Our Parish in America Segregated the Korean Race for Their District. The PCUSA deletes everything, its not allowed Church in these boundaries. The leaders preach assimilation in Everything. They preach freedom, they preach never to have helped king Gojong. They preach I'm sure that all the women stolen as warbrides was a good thing and they probably don't share any Scottish history or Confederate history either.

 

[Meathead]

Race pimps making stuff up

There we go... Frederick Douglass... the race pimp. Harriett Tubman... race pimp

Lets erase history instead of hearing something that makes us an unhappy snowflake.

Remove those kids grave markers maybe and get them out of here? Get some sharpies and write over the stories of brutality and death that slaves and others wrote about?
The actual court cases like Smith v. Hancock where owners got off murdering their slaves for attending a non-allowed meeting.
First class accomodations all the way from Africa, because if they'd ever lost a slave, that would be a travesty.
Rewrite all those black codes of course to something more happy.
Not sending slaves to the doctor to keep the costs down because as you said, thats money, and giving them home remedies instead and hoping for the best.

That's pretty fucked of you.

Fredrick Douglass? Harriet Tubman?

I'm calling SandSquid a race pimp. Trying to equate yourself to others who are admired is sleazy even in the black community.

 

[SandSquid]

Race pimps making stuff up

There we go... Frederick Douglass... the race pimp. Harriett Tubman... race pimp

Lets erase history instead of hearing something that makes us an unhappy snowflake.

Remove those kids grave markers maybe and get them out of here? Get some sharpies and write over the stories of brutality and death that slaves and others wrote about?
The actual court cases like Smith v. Hancock where owners got off murdering their slaves for attending a non-allowed meeting.
First class accomodations all the way from Africa, because if they'd ever lost a slave, that would be a travesty.
Rewrite all those black codes of course to something more happy.
Not sending slaves to the doctor to keep the costs down because as you said, thats money, and giving them home remedies instead and hoping for the best.

That's pretty fucked of you.

Fredrick Douglass? Harriet Tubman?

I'm calling SandSquid a race pimp. Trying to equate yourself to others who are admired is sleazy even in the black community.

Sorry those weren't my words but theirs who you are claiming made that stuff up

I'm not equating myself to anyone.