John Lewis Says Voter ID Laws Are 'Poll Taxes By Another Name'

[percysunshine]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the processing fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

 

[mikegriffith1]

So, having conceded that it's OK with you that even one person be disenfranchised through poll taxes then let's discuss whether you have any limit on how many should be denied their right to vote. Go ahead....throw out a number!

Anyone who has been receiving welfare for more than 60 days or for 51% of days for the last 2 years--should not be allowed to vote.

Anyone who has been convicted of a felony--should not be allowed to vote.

Anyone who is not a U.S. citizen--should not be allowed to vote.

Anyone who cannot read an English-language ballot and whose first language is English--should not be allowed to vote.

Question: If you worked in a large corporation and it came time to elect a new chairman and a new board of directors, would you allow the janitors, the mail room folks, the clerks, etc., to vote and to have their vote count the same as the votes of managers, accountants, senior executives, and shareholders? What if you had some disreputable or incompetent person running for chairman and the vote was open to everyone who worked for the company in any capacity, and this guy promised the low-level employees a 30% raise if he were elected?

Even the first Massachusetts state constitution limited the right to vote to property owners.

Certain elections should be done by universal suffrage, but others should be limited by age or income or property ownership.

Over 2/3 of high school dropouts voted for Obama, and they accounted for 3% of all votes cast, which was nearly Obama's margin of victory.

Romney won every economic group except the bottom two, and those bottom two income groups cancelled out the votes of all the other income groups.

 

[percysunshine]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

 

[HenryBHough]

Yes, Mike, some of your Utopian ideas have merit but I don't think you'd get any kind of IQ test past Democrats. They could never win again.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Let's just be honest: The objection that the paperwork for free photo IDs "discriminates" against some people is a polite way to say that some people are incapable of completing the paperwork and/or are too lazy to do so and either can't or won't provide proof of citizenship and proof of residence.

Democrats know that the vast majority of illiterate and poorly educated people will vote Democratic if they vote, because they are the most likely to be persuaded by the Democrats' demagoguery, race baiting, and class warfare propaganda.

That's what this fight is really all about. At first Democrats objected to voter ID laws because people had to pay a very small fee for the IDs. So when states started offering free IDs, then the Democrats were left with no choice but to resort to the lame argument that requiring proof of citizenship and residence and a completed ID form constitutes "discrimination" and "voter suppression."

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

That won't get you a photo ID, which is now required to vote in many cases.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Let's just be honest: The objection that the paperwork for free photo IDs "discriminates" against some people is a polite way to say that some people are incapable of completing the paperwork and/or are too lazy to do so.

Some don't have it, never have, and it's the GOP that doesn't want people to have the right to vote in this case.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Let's just be honest: The objection that the paperwork for free photo IDs "discriminates" against some people is a polite way to say that some people are incapable of completing the paperwork and/or are too lazy to do so.

Some don't have it, never have, and it's the GOP that doesn't want people to have the right to vote in this case.

Nonsense. Everyone has a birth certificate, and if they've lost it, they can quickly and easily get another one for a few dollars. Virtually everyone gets some kind of bill with their address on it--cell phone, cable TV, Internet, credit card, etc. Virtually everyone gets a utility bill.

But, as we both know, many of the folks you want to enable to vote cannot fill out a photo ID form, even if they have a birth certificate and proof of residence. They can't do so because they either don't speak English or can't read well enough. They're perfect candidates for falling for the Democrats' class-warfare rhetoric, race-baiting, and promises of free stuff.

 

[percysunshine]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

That won't get you a photo ID, which is now required to vote in many cases.

Photo IDs are free. So are copies of birth certificates. This is the Texas example;

"On October 21, 2013, the Department of State Health Services (DSHS) adopted a rule amendment that waives the fees charged for a certified copy of a birth record for an individual who requires a certified copy in order to obtain an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS). "

Birth Certificate for Election Identification

I cannot find any evidence of a poll tax. It looks to be an invented controversy.

.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Let's just be honest: The objection that the paperwork for free photo IDs "discriminates" against some people is a polite way to say that some people are incapable of completing the paperwork and/or are too lazy to do so.

Some don't have it, never have, and it's the GOP that doesn't want people to have the right to vote in this case.

Nonsense. Everyone has a birth certificate...

No, they do not. Not recorded at church, not in the family Bible even. It's not common any more but they are still out there, and they have the right to vote.

Undocumented Citizens The Crisis of U.S. Birth Certificates 1940-1945 cliotropic

And

Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won t Vote NPR

And

"Among the plaintiffs is Shirley Brown, an African-American woman in her 70s who was born at home in Louisiana and never had a birth certificate. Brown, who had voted in Wisconsin for decades, was denied an ID because she did not have a birth certificate. DMV rejected a statement from her elementary school attesting to her birth, even though Medicare accepted the statement. Another voter, Eddie Lee Holloway Jr., was unable to get ID because his birth certificate read "Eddie Junior Holloway" instead of "Eddie Lee Holloway Junior." The court recognized that these and many other voters would be harmed by the law."
Federal Court Strikes Down Wisconsin Voter ID Law American Civil Liberties Union

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

That won't get you a photo ID, which is now required to vote in many cases.

Photo IDs are free. So are copies of birth certificates. This is the Texas example;

"On October 21, 2013, the Department of State Health Services (DSHS) adopted a rule amendment that waives the fees charged for a certified copy of a birth record for an individual who requires a certified copy in order to obtain an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS). "

Birth Certificate for Election Identification

I cannot find any evidence of a poll tax. It looks to be an invented controversy.

.

Of course you can't find evidence, because you don't want to...

Well Actually It s Pretty Hard for Some People to Get a Photo ID So They Can Vote ABLC

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Here's the younger set: Homeschool Teen Can t Prove She s an American - The Daily Beast

 

[mikegriffith1]

Here's the younger set: Homeschool Teen Can t Prove She s an American - The Daily Beast

Then using your logic, you should be demanding that minorities be exempt from photo ID requirements for buying alcohol and tobacco products, for boarding planes, for using credit cards, etc. If they are "disproportionately" affected by voter ID laws because they just can't manage to get a free ID, then an equal number of them must not be able to buy alcohol or tobacco, to board planes, to use credit cards, etc.

Voting is a much more important act than buying beer or cigarettes or boarding a plane or using a credit card. If we can require photo ID for these actions, there's no rational, logical reason that we can't require a photo ID to vote. People who claim they just can't get a photo ID and therefore can't vote must likewise be unable to buy alcohol or tobacco, to board planes, to use credit cards, etc.

 

[percysunshine]

I know what the voter ID laws are in some of the States, but not all of them. The States I know about provide free IDs to anyone who says they cannot afford the fee.

Some one give me an example of a State which does not do this. Then there might be something to debate.

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

That won't get you a photo ID, which is now required to vote in many cases.

Photo IDs are free. So are copies of birth certificates. This is the Texas example;

"On October 21, 2013, the Department of State Health Services (DSHS) adopted a rule amendment that waives the fees charged for a certified copy of a birth record for an individual who requires a certified copy in order to obtain an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS). "

Birth Certificate for Election Identification

I cannot find any evidence of a poll tax. It looks to be an invented controversy.

.

Of course you can't find evidence, because you don't want to...

Well Actually It s Pretty Hard for Some People to Get a Photo ID So They Can Vote ABLC

Looks like Puerto Rico might have a data base problem, but everything else in the article is hyperbole, anecdotal, or just plain false. A person can get a free birth certificate and a free voter ID. There is no poll tax.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The ID is free, it has to be, but the paperwork to get it, if you even have it, is the issue.

An electric bill with an address proving you live in the precinct you are voting in? The power company mails you that for free.

Maybe the Amish have an issue, but everyone else uses electricity.

That won't get you a photo ID, which is now required to vote in many cases.

Photo IDs are free. So are copies of birth certificates. This is the Texas example;

"On October 21, 2013, the Department of State Health Services (DSHS) adopted a rule amendment that waives the fees charged for a certified copy of a birth record for an individual who requires a certified copy in order to obtain an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS). "

Birth Certificate for Election Identification

I cannot find any evidence of a poll tax. It looks to be an invented controversy.

.

Of course you can't find evidence, because you don't want to...

Well Actually It s Pretty Hard for Some People to Get a Photo ID So They Can Vote ABLC

Looks like Puerto Rico might have a data base problem, but everything else in the article is hyperbole, anecdotal, or just plain false. A person can get a free birth certificate and a free voter ID. There is no poll tax.

You can ignore the facts all you like, they won't go away. Facts, to the courts but unlike to you, matter.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Here's the younger set: Homeschool Teen Can t Prove She s an American - The Daily Beast

Then using your logic, you should be demanding that minorities be exempt from photo ID requirements for buying alcohol and tobacco products, for boarding planes, for using credit cards, etc. If they are "disproportionately" affected by voter ID laws because they just can't manage to get a free ID, then an equal number of them must not be able to buy alcohol or tobacco, to board planes, to use credit cards, etc.

Voting is a much more important act than buying beer or cigarettes or boarding a plane or using a credit card. If we can require photo ID for these actions, there's no rational, logical reason that we can't require a photo ID to vote. People who claim they just can't get a photo ID and therefore can't vote must likewise be unable to buy alcohol or tobacco, to board planes, to use credit cards, etc.

Rights shouldn't require photo ID, since they came before it existed. See how that works now?