Judge in Floyd case opens door for an acquital.

[lennypartiv]

No he wasn't.
Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'
$25 million vs $20.

And a degree from Trump University is still worth more than your degree.

 

[boedicca]

Floyd was accused of committing fraud. His level of fraud couldn't hold a candle to what Trump did.

Trump was exonerated.

No he wasn't.

Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'

$25 million vs $20.

Omigoodness. You really are pinning the Bogometer today.

 

[boedicca]

What does any of that have to do with anything I've said

You forgot you posted heart attack?
Sounds like dementia

I posted examples of where you can feel you can not breath but still talk.

Cool, now show me one that says that that hold limits breathing!

That is silly.
The cops sitting on his back were what was limiting breathing.
The shin on the neck was a carotid compression, preventing blood from getting to the brain.

And his lungs were bricked due to drug abuse.

That's REALITY, Dave.

 

[lennypartiv]

The cops sitting on his back were what was limiting breathing.
The shin on the neck was a carotid compression, preventing blood from getting to the brain.

Why complain when the cops took another bad guy off the streets?

 

[pknopp]

Floyd was accused of committing fraud. His level of fraud couldn't hold a candle to what Trump did.

Trump was exonerated.

No he wasn't.

Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'

$25 million vs $20.

Omigoodness. You rally are pinning the Bogometer today.

$25 million vs $20. You have no soap box to stand on.

 

[pknopp]

No he wasn't.
Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'
$25 million vs $20.

And a degree from Trump University is still worth more than your degree.

I imagine about the same since I do not have one. Well, maybe not true. One would likely see someone with a "Trump University" degree as someone pretty gullible.

 

[jc456]

No one should ever "rush" a suspect.
If police are trained that way, then all the trainers need to be fired and fined for being so incompetent and dangerous.
I agree they are trained that way.
I see it all the time

Based on what experience?

 

[jc456]

No he wasn't.
Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'
$25 million vs $20.

And a degree from Trump University is still worth more than your degree.

I imagine about the same since I do not have one. Well, maybe not true. One would likely see someone with a "Trump University" degree as someone pretty gullible.

Always the demeaning fk

 

[jc456]

That is silly.
The cops sitting on his back were what was limiting breathing.
The shin on the neck was a carotid compression, preventing blood from getting to the brain

Based on what experience?

 

[jc456]

That's what the guy who got voted out of office claimed... because he didn't want to do his job. Now he's doesn't have a job. See how that works.

Yeah Joe. A lawyer who has a lifetime of experience and also a prosecutor is living under a bridge because he no longer has a job with the city of Cleveland.

Not for nine minutes after the guy stops breathing.... The defense has looked like monkeys on this because they are trying to convince people they didn't see what they all saw.

It doesn't matter what they seen, what matters is if what the officer did killed him, which it wasn't. If there was any risk of death using that move, it would not be police policy nor taught at police academies across the country.

The problem with this "Three times the fatal dose" nonsense is that it is exactly that. SOME people have died with that small of a dose in their bodies. SOME people have survived with even higher doses. Kind of like some people can shoot up every day and some people will die the first time they try something. If anything, that works against them, because Floyd had been using for years. He probably had a fairly high tolerance.

The idea that he was able to scream also proves nothing. Seriously, you guys tried this bullshit with Eric Garner, and no one bought it then.

Are you completely stupid or are you just putting on an act to try and make a point? If you can talk, it means you are inhaling and exhaling air. There is no possible way to do it otherwise.
He was crying he couldn't breathe in the back of the police car. He was sitting upright with nobody near his head or neck.

He could breathe just fine, but due to the narcotics, oxygen was not getting into his blood stream. That's why he was screaming he couldn't breathe. Oxygen not getting into his blood stream had nothing to do with with the maneuver officer Chauvin used. Oxygen was not getting into his blood stream long before the officer kneeled on his neck.

A human body can only build so much tolerance to a poison. That's why we have nearly 100,000 Americans die every year from illegal narcotics. Once the body builds a tolerance, the user needs to take more dope to get the same high. Finally they take more than the body can tolerate and the body shuts down.

For those playing along at home, Ray lives in a slum and collects disability. But he'll tell you those were things the MEAN OLD GOVERNMENT did to him. Not because he's made bad life choices. But some black person who has faced GENERATIONS of discrimination and poverty, why that's their choice if they are poor. Sure, Ray. Sure.

We don't live in your make believe world Joe. This is 2021, not 1941 where you mentally live. Blacks can easily get jobs just like whites. Blacks go to the same schools as whites. Blacks have the same job opportunities as whites. In fact what I seen the last couple of years of working were companies replacing their white crew with all blacks.

Do blacks face problems in the workforce? Yes they do, but not from the employer. Their problem is they are politically ignorant, and vote for a party that's rushing in immigrants who are taking those jobs blacks could be working. Why is that a problem? Because employers do have a favorite color, and that color is green. The employees that make the most of that color for the employer are that employers favorite workers.

When he wanted to get that photo op in front of a church holding a bible upside down. He also tried to get the military to attack rioters and the military told him, "Um, no. Not in our job description."

But, yeah, Federal Reform is a great idea. In fact, Obama entered into consent decrees with a number of troubled police departments, but Trump and Sessions immediately scrapped those agreements.

Oh is that it? Then why did DumBama wait seven years to do that and only implemented it in his last year in office? Most police departments told him to shove his decree up his ass. Stick to community organizing and let them handle the police work--something the big eared fairy knew nothing about.

President Trump never told the military to attack anybody. You know when you lie like this I'm going to demand evidence of it.

So essentially, the Capitalist exploits the hard work of others. YES, WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT.

The capitalist comes up with an idea to create a product or service. The capitalist invests the money to create the business. The capitalist takes all the risks associated with opening a new business. The capitalist creates job opportunities for people that wish to work for the capitalist.

If I'm selling a car, you agree to buy it, and we both agree on the price, I'm not exploiting you and you are not exploiting me when I sell you that car. Employers don't build a trap and use money as the bait, and then when somebody comes to take that money, a huge cage drops down and traps them. The employer offers a job. You find the offer and apply. The employer explains the work, wages and benefits, and you either accept the offer or decline it. That's not exploitation, that's a verbal contract.

Actually, most times I see someone digging a hole somewhere, it's because the GOVERNMENT is paying him to do it as part of a public works project. So you lose again.

Is that so? As I explained to you many times, I'm from a construction family. My father was a bricklayer, his brother was a carpenter, his other brother had a remodeling business, I grew up mixing cement, carrying bricks and blocks, and erecting scaffolding. And yes, I dug holes called footers which are needed to pour the foundation of a porch, addition, and fireplace chimneys. Not one time did any money I made come from government.

Actually, I would take the word of a senior police officer over an expert. Add in the fact he had an emotional breakdown on a gun range and had to be disarmed. Or that several other police departments reviewed his records and refused to hire him. That has liability written all over it. Remember, that's all that would be at issue in a civil suit, did the hiring of Loehmann present a danger that resulted in the death of Rice.

You are FOS. Loehmann expressed his disappointment where he worked and that's documented. He thought it was too boring and wanted the action a Cleveland police officer faces every day. The only time you see Independence police is when you're on the highway and they are taking laser because they don't have much else to do. Either that or they are at the doughnut shop if you go through their suburb. Independence is a white upper-middle-class suburb with virtually no crime. Trust me, Independence is only ten minutes from my home

Reckless endangerment. That's the law he broke. Manslaughter. That's the law he broke. The Grand Jury never voted on the indictment and the NOW UNEMPLOYED DA acted like a defense attorney.

The suspect was a child playing with a toy. He did not "pull a gun" on him. We have it on tape. These claims make not a lick of sense because Rice knew he had a toy, why would he pull it out on a cop? That would be nuts.

You make up your own stories in your head. You really need a shrink. The grand jury watched the video frame by frame. It showed Rice pulling up his arm with the gun. When other officers and FBI agent arrived the gun was on the ground. The only way for that gun to get on the ground is if he pulled it out.

Using deadly force when confronted with a serious threat is not manslaughter, it's self-defense.

Yeah,all he was doing was playing with a toy. What those of us living in reality seen.

View attachment 475750

What JoeB131 saw.

View attachment 475751

Uh, buddy, if you shot a child playing with a toy, you'd be in a lot of fucking trouble. And when someone does some digging and finds all the racists shit you say here.... um, does Ohio still have a death penalty?

There you go folks, do I need to say anymore?

He broke the law by being under the influence behind the steering wheel of his car! The dude had three violations.

 

[San Souci]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

 

[pknopp]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

 

[boedicca]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

The coroner capitulated to political pressure, bub.

 

[jc456]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

Suicide is a homicide

 

[Dragonlady]

With due respect, I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. That should be evident in the number of likes I have made of your posts.

My "apples and oranges" assessment was based heavily on the difference between how the leftists view guns and drugs. They seem to want to:

• decriminalize all drug possession
• criminalize all gun possession (with exception of their own bodyguards)

I never said dope was a constitutional right.

This is true.

Recreational drugs are those people take for enjoyment and eventually become addicted to.

I stand corrected. I had not researched the accepted definition until just now. My bad.

...care for the topic title to see what one poster is writing about?

Not in this thread.

I never said dope was a constitutional right.

This is also true. I was merely reiterating the difference between the two; guns and drugs. As you said, the leftists assign blame to gun dealers and gun shows. I agree. And I say that they promote the business of drug dealers.

Dope and drugs are constitutional rights.
First of all, the constitution says rights are infinite, so then unenumerated, and are all valid until they infringe upon someone else. Only then can you make laws regulating anything.
And since dope/drugs harm no one else, it is unconstitutional to make laws against them.
Even more illegal is to make federal drug laws, since that would require explicit authorization for it in the Constitution.

Guns are also a constitutional right, but clearly guns can infringe upon others, so then some regulation could be legal.
Guns make much more sense to regulate than drugs/dope does.

given the crime states, car accidents, and birth defects----dopers and druggies clearly infringe on everyone else.

Wrong.
Crime is caused by the War on Drugs because it turns purchasers and sellers into people who can't use banks, checks, credit cards, or police. So when you force people into cash deals, then obviously you are going to greatly increase crime.
Make it legal and all the crime disappears.
No accidents are associated with drugs.
In fact, some drugs are stimulants and improve your driving.
No birth defects are associated with drugs except if the mother has poor nutrition while pregnant.

Yes accidents ARE associated with drugs, and even the stimulants don't "improve" your driving. Being hopped up on stimulants makes you a worse driver, not better. And lots of birth defects are associated with drugs. As well as infants being born addicted.

However you are correct in assessing that people on drugs are LESS likely to be in an accident but not for the reasons you think. It's because they're less likely to drive. And crime has gone down in every state where drugs are legalized.

Best of all is quality, consistency and price. I just did an online order for an ounce of Pink Kush from the local dispensary, and the software tells me it's ready to pick up. $130, plus GST. I used to pay $80 a quarter for the same stuff from my street dealer in Toronto. Now that Andreescu's tennis match is over, it's time to go do the curbside pickup.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, they do NOT teach kneeling on the neck of someone who is not a deadly threat.
Choke holds are known to be dangerous, and they ONLY teach choke holds if you are trying to save your own life at the risk of killing the other person.
Same with a taser.
Tasers are also considered lethal force, and can not be used on someone who is not a deadly threat.

The knee and shin are often used in choke holds.
It is also a well known hold in wrestling.
It is illegal.
Everyone knows it was illegal in this case, where Floyd was not a deadly threat.

And yes, a large person CAN take 3 times the lethal amount of some drug and be just fine.
In fact, someone used to a drug can take up to 10 times the legal amount and likely be just fine.
Drugs greatly lose effect with use.

And you can NOT shoot someone because you see a gun in their hand.
If you can shoot Rice for having what looked like a gun in his hand, then you most certainly can shoot every cop you see with a gun in his hand.

Sure you can shoot somebody for pulling a gun out on you. Need to see our laws? Unless somebody is at a gun range or something, a person pulling a gun on you is a threat. You have the right to use deadly force to stop that threat. Trust me. To get a CCW in this state, we had to undergo 10 hours of class time and 2 hours on the range. Much of the class time was spent covering the laws here and other states where our license may have reciprocity. Furthermore we had to pass a written test on what we learned.

This officer in the Rice case had every reason to believe he was in danger of getting shot because nobody pulls a gun on a cop unless they have every intent on using it. It could be the person is drugged up, it could be suicide by cop, it could be the guy is nuts. But whatever the case, the threat is there.

In the Floyd case, the officers did not use restraint out of fear of being harmed, they restrain out of control suspects so they don't hurt themselves. Floyd was high which is clearly evident to anybody with normal vision.

Here is a police training video. About 2/3 of the way, note how he puts his knee on the back of his training partners neck when he's on the ground.

 

[pknopp]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

Suicide is a homicide

No it isn't.

 

[San Souci]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

Like I said. Political pressure. Giving in to the filthy MOB rule.

 

[San Souci]

Wash Rinse Repeat:

George Floyd is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

Nobody said that.

What we are saying is,

George Floyd did not deserve to be killed over a petty offense, which was escalated by a rogue officer into a fatal incident.

He wasn't killed by a police officer. George Floyd died of a self-inflicted Fentanyl overdose.

Wrong.
If drugs killed him, then it would have showed the autopsy.
But they didn't.
The autopsy showed it was suffocation and lack of oxygen to the brain, due to pressure on the neck.

Lie. The autopsy showed a massive drug OD. And no signs of strangulation.

In each case it was noted that the cause of death was "homicide'. That is not the finding in a drug OD. The medical examiner even stated that he would not say that they amount of drugs found in Floyd would have killed him.

Political Pressure. That punk had 4 times the lethal dose. And no petechial Hemorrhage. Which means no strangulation. People can lie. Forensic evidence does not.

Before long we will be up to 20 times......

The coroner ruled it a homicide.

Suicide is a homicide

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Totally wrong.
The park was practially deserted, and there was no one near the pavillion that Rice was near.
And what you say makes no sense about not wanting others to get hurt because it was the POLICE do did all the shooting and it was the POLICE who could then easily have murdered more innocent by standers.

What I'm saying makes all the sense in the world. Police are trained to rush an armed suspect. Watch real police videos instead of Hollywood movies. That's what they do every time. If police needed to use their firearms, the safest way for the public was for them to be close to the suspect so their shots didn't miss.

Last summer I was awakened by a gunshot at 4:30am. I looked out the window to see what was going on. Then I seen police walking up the driveway of my HUD neighbors house. The man exited the house, and police ran at him and arrested him. He took a shot at his wife and she or somebody called the police. That's how they do things.

Rice did not see them coming at first.
He was facing the other way.
And he did not see them until they were almost on top of him.
And no, it is not at all legal to fire at someone just because you see they have a gun.
There has to be more indication that the person is intending to take aim and shoot.
It just having a gun was sufficient to make the person a deadly threat, then we would all have to shoot all police on sight.

You are so wrong. In our state the law reads: A CCW holder has the legal ability to use deadly force if they believe that they (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. Our police officers live by the same law. When somebody starts pulling a gun on you, you don't wait until a fraction of a second before getting killed, you shoot them as soon as the threat is obvious. The officer had every reason to believe he was in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.

Rice was walking towards the police when they arrived. You can see that on the timestamp of 7:00 minutes on the video.

No one should ever "rush" a suspect.
If police are trained that way, then all the trainers need to be fired and fined for being so incompetent and dangerous.
I agree they are trained that way.
I see it all the time.
But no one should be foolish enough to do that.

Being closer is not safer for anyone.
At that close of range, over penetration is assured.
Nor should police ever fire the first shot.
Closer means more danger, which makes shots more likely.
NEVER do that.
It is EXACTLY these aggressive habits that are illegal and dangerous, that police should NEVER do.
It is easy to tell.
If someone else acted like that, they would be prosecuted.
And that is the key that shows why police should not either.
That is because if ordinary people should not do it, then police should not either.
Police do NOT have any extra or additional authority than anyone.
They can't.
In a democratic republic, there is no one who has the authority to give them any extra or additional authority.
So that is the test one should always use.
If ordinary people can't do it, then police should not either.

Rice did nothing indicate hostile intent.
Having a gun, even in your hand, is not sufficient to believe you are a deadly threat who can be shot.
For example, the police have several times shot and killed the home owners who had just scared away criminals.
The home owner has a right to be armed if they just fended off a criminal attack.
Police do NOT have the right to kill just in case.
Since they are the ones ignorant of what is actually going on, and are the ones controlling distance by their arrival, ALL the responsibility is on them to prevent these misunderstandings and mistakes.
When police training is wrong, and it obvious is, then it is the police who are entirely at fault.
Rice did nothing illegal or remotely dangerous.
Shooting him was deliberate murder.
Does not matter if the police thought they were in danger.
They not only were totally wrong, but they were the ones who deliberately created and caused all the danger.

I think what you need is a vacation from this made up world in your head and visit reality once in a while. We have laws that we all follow. If you want the laws changed, you need to vote for a person that will change them. Until that time, we all obey the laws. If you don't obey the laws, then that makes you a law breaker subject to fines, jail, and perhaps imprisonment.