Judge says he can order abortion for disabled Nevada woman

[Noomi]

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They could be influenced by greed as well.


BTW in my experience family members are influenced by the best interests of the person who entrusted them to make the decision in the first place.

If there is any hint that greed is a motivator, the decision should be taken out of that person's hands, and given to the courts.

 

[Againsheila]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They are also the people who know you best, and would know what you'd want best.

What about those parents who go against their childs' wishes to donate their organs? Even if you are on the donor list, the parents are free to override that decision.
Doesn't sound like the parents know you, or care for your wishes in this instance.

I've never heard of such a case and it wouldn't matter anyway if they are children, the decision should be made by an adult. If they are an adult who once was fully cognizant, they should have made their wishes known and it's law, the family can't override the donor card although with what I know about the medical system I would never ever sign a donor card. If I'm dying and my organs will do anyone any good, my family can make that decision at the time but I'm not gonna give the doctors permission to give up on me and just let me die so they can get my organs and give them to someone else. And yes, people in the medical community have told me that happens. Only when there is no hope left is a decision like that made.

 

[Againsheila]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

So if you mother is dying and an operation can save her, and you are an adult and her closest relative, you should have no say, the doctors should get a court order for an operation?

You don't think I have a right to make decisions for my nearly 25 year old severely autistic adult son? You think a court should come in and decide whether or not the meds recommended by the psychiatrist are good for him? Or do you think the hospital should decide? Or his caregivers? Do you think I should have let them give my son seizure medication when his stupid caregiver decided he had a seizure and took him to the hospital? He's never had a seizure in his life. He was tested for that when he was a kid. What happened was a panic attack that the caregiver didn't recognize. You don't think I know what is best for my own son? That the courts should decide? BTW, I talked to the doctor and he agreed to wait and see if he had another seizure. He hasn't and it's been nearly a year. There WAS NO SEIZURE, but if you had your way, he'd be on seizure medication, because of course, the parents have no rights and shouldn't make decisions. They might let their religion get in their way. Yeah right. If my son was a girl and got pregnant, I'm not sure what I would do, but I sure as hell wouldn't want some court making that decision for my son (daughter).

Please Noomi, have your mother make a living will, right now, so that her life will not be in the hands of the courts. You don't think you can make a good decision on her medical needs, have her make them now and give medical power of attorney to someone she trusts who isn't you.

I should be more specific.

I think that sometimes, people can be irrational, and make choices based on their emotions, which is not good. In those cases, if a doctor noticed and didn't believe the family were making an informed decision, the choice could then be taken out of the hands of family.
If the family was deliberately going against the wishes of the ill person, then the courts should certainly take over.

Now you want to pick and choose when the "courts" should decide. If this woman with the mind of a child wants the baby do you believe the judge has the right to rule for an abortion? Do you believe the parents do? You realize that's going against the wishes of the "ill" person, don't you? A person who is of legal, if not intellectual age.

 

[Connery]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

So if you mother is dying and an operation can save her, and you are an adult and her closest relative, you should have no say, the doctors should get a court order for an operation?

You don't think I have a right to make decisions for my nearly 25 year old severely autistic adult son? You think a court should come in and decide whether or not the meds recommended by the psychiatrist are good for him? Or do you think the hospital should decide? Or his caregivers? Do you think I should have let them give my son seizure medication when his stupid caregiver decided he had a seizure and took him to the hospital? He's never had a seizure in his life. He was tested for that when he was a kid. What happened was a panic attack that the caregiver didn't recognize. You don't think I know what is best for my own son? That the courts should decide? BTW, I talked to the doctor and he agreed to wait and see if he had another seizure. He hasn't and it's been nearly a year. There WAS NO SEIZURE, but if you had your way, he'd be on seizure medication, because of course, the parents have no rights and shouldn't make decisions. They might let their religion get in their way. Yeah right. If my son was a girl and got pregnant, I'm not sure what I would do, but I sure as hell wouldn't want some court making that decision for my son (daughter).

Please Noomi, have your mother make a living will, right now, so that her life will not be in the hands of the courts. You don't think you can make a good decision on her medical needs, have her make them now and give medical power of attorney to someone she trusts who isn't you.

I should be more specific.

I think that sometimes, people can be irrational, and make choices based on their emotions, which is not good. In those cases, if a doctor noticed and didn't believe the family were making an informed decision, the choice could then be taken out of the hands of family.
If the family was deliberately going against the wishes of the ill person, then the courts should certainly take over.

An Advance Directive(Living Will) is very clear as to what should be carried out at the appropriate time. There is a copy of the AD with the hospital as well.

 

[Connery]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They could be influenced by greed as well.


BTW in my experience family members are influenced by the best interests of the person who entrusted them to make the decision in the first place.

If there is any hint that greed is a motivator, the decision should be taken out of that person's hands, and given to the courts.

Greed is not the determining factor the conditions as expressed in the Advance Directive, the doctor's judgment and supporting medical evidence is.

 

[Noomi]

They are also the people who know you best, and would know what you'd want best.

What about those parents who go against their childs' wishes to donate their organs? Even if you are on the donor list, the parents are free to override that decision.
Doesn't sound like the parents know you, or care for your wishes in this instance.

I've never heard of such a case and it wouldn't matter anyway if they are children, the decision should be made by an adult. If they are an adult who once was fully cognizant, they should have made their wishes known and it's law, the family can't override the donor card although with what I know about the medical system I would never ever sign a donor card. If I'm dying and my organs will do anyone any good, my family can make that decision at the time but I'm not gonna give the doctors permission to give up on me and just let me die so they can get my organs and give them to someone else. And yes, people in the medical community have told me that happens. Only when there is no hope left is a decision like that made.

Over here, signing the donor register means nothing. Families have, for years, violated the wishes of their loved ones, and decided since their religion states not to donate organs, their deceased loved one shouldn't either.

I believe children can make the choice to donate their organs, and I would never override their wishes.

 

[Againsheila]

What about those parents who go against their childs' wishes to donate their organs? Even if you are on the donor list, the parents are free to override that decision.
Doesn't sound like the parents know you, or care for your wishes in this instance.

I've never heard of such a case and it wouldn't matter anyway if they are children, the decision should be made by an adult. If they are an adult who once was fully cognizant, they should have made their wishes known and it's law, the family can't override the donor card although with what I know about the medical system I would never ever sign a donor card. If I'm dying and my organs will do anyone any good, my family can make that decision at the time but I'm not gonna give the doctors permission to give up on me and just let me die so they can get my organs and give them to someone else. And yes, people in the medical community have told me that happens. Only when there is no hope left is a decision like that made.

Over here, signing the donor register means nothing. Families have, for years, violated the wishes of their loved ones, and decided since their religion states not to donate organs, their deceased loved one shouldn't either.

I believe children can make the choice to donate their organs, and I would never override their wishes.

If I had a child that died, I would probably donate that child's organs, but there is no way in hell I would do it before I found out that he/she was indeed brain dead.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Have you not read the autopsy reports?

I don't pretend to have graduated from med school, unlike you.

I do know that people that can breathe are not on life support.

She couldn't feed herself, could she? Remove the feeding tube, and what happens? Oh yeah, she died. So the feeding tube was a kind of life support.

Christopher Reeve couldn't feed himself either, what's your point?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

So if you mother is dying and an operation can save her, and you are an adult and her closest relative, you should have no say, the doctors should get a court order for an operation?

You don't think I have a right to make decisions for my nearly 25 year old severely autistic adult son? You think a court should come in and decide whether or not the meds recommended by the psychiatrist are good for him? Or do you think the hospital should decide? Or his caregivers? Do you think I should have let them give my son seizure medication when his stupid caregiver decided he had a seizure and took him to the hospital? He's never had a seizure in his life. He was tested for that when he was a kid. What happened was a panic attack that the caregiver didn't recognize. You don't think I know what is best for my own son? That the courts should decide? BTW, I talked to the doctor and he agreed to wait and see if he had another seizure. He hasn't and it's been nearly a year. There WAS NO SEIZURE, but if you had your way, he'd be on seizure medication, because of course, the parents have no rights and shouldn't make decisions. They might let their religion get in their way. Yeah right. If my son was a girl and got pregnant, I'm not sure what I would do, but I sure as hell wouldn't want some court making that decision for my son (daughter).

Please Noomi, have your mother make a living will, right now, so that her life will not be in the hands of the courts. You don't think you can make a good decision on her medical needs, have her make them now and give medical power of attorney to someone she trusts who isn't you.

I should be more specific.

I think that sometimes, people can be irrational, and make choices based on their emotions, which is not good. In those cases, if a doctor noticed and didn't believe the family were making an informed decision, the choice could then be taken out of the hands of family.
If the family was deliberately going against the wishes of the ill person, then the courts should certainly take over.

It wasn't a doctor, it was a social worker. In other words, the government attempted to kill this woman's child, and the family objected.

 

[Noomi]

I've never heard of such a case and it wouldn't matter anyway if they are children, the decision should be made by an adult. If they are an adult who once was fully cognizant, they should have made their wishes known and it's law, the family can't override the donor card although with what I know about the medical system I would never ever sign a donor card. If I'm dying and my organs will do anyone any good, my family can make that decision at the time but I'm not gonna give the doctors permission to give up on me and just let me die so they can get my organs and give them to someone else. And yes, people in the medical community have told me that happens. Only when there is no hope left is a decision like that made.

Over here, signing the donor register means nothing. Families have, for years, violated the wishes of their loved ones, and decided since their religion states not to donate organs, their deceased loved one shouldn't either.

I believe children can make the choice to donate their organs, and I would never override their wishes.

If I had a child that died, I would probably donate that child's organs, but there is no way in hell I would do it before I found out that he/she was indeed brain dead.

Obviously - and neither would I.

 

[Noomi]

I don't pretend to have graduated from med school, unlike you.

I do know that people that can breathe are not on life support.

She couldn't feed herself, could she? Remove the feeding tube, and what happens? Oh yeah, she died. So the feeding tube was a kind of life support.

Christopher Reeve couldn't feed himself either, what's your point?

Reeve was a pain in the backside, too. What's your point?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Nor will she...because there are no fewer than FIVE people ready and willing to adopt the baby! God and goddess, are you fucking HIGH?!

So how is this woman going to feel when she gives birth, only to have her baby ripped away from her? What sort of parents are these that they would give away their grandchild? Have they even explained to her that she cannot keep her baby, that she is only keeping it 'safe' for a short time? Does this woman even understand?

How is this woman going to feel when she's dragged into a room, stuck in the stirrups, and her baby is ripped OUT of her? What sort of parent are YOU, that you're actually sitting there thinking, "Only monsters would give away their grandchild? GOOD people would KILL their grandchild instead?" NOW you've . . . what? Decided that anyone who puts their child up for adoption, instead of aborting him, is evil?

Tell me, oh moral guru, how YOU would go about explaining to her that she cannot keep her baby OR keep it safe, that Mom and Dad have decided to kill him instead?

I am starting to come top some extremely disturbing conclusions about Noomi. I truly think the woman might be psychotic.

 

[Immanuel]

Mental disable women should be allowed to be ordered abortions from Judges. Period.

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

Oh, better to give a person that doesn't give a shit about the person in question the ability to screw up their lives? Is that really how you see it?

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

There was no need to keep a dead woman on artificial life support. Her family insisted that she was improving, despite all indications to the contrary. After she died, Mrs. Shaivo's autopsy revealed that her brain was basically jello.

As for the party in question, I have had dealings with a mentally retarded woman, her mental age was about 8 or 9. She came into the ER with lower abdominal pain, it wasn't her appendix, other issues were ruled out, and the doctor tried a pelvic exam. It was awful. The woman had no idea what was going on... I won't get into it, but I'm able to tell you with all certainty that anyone with a 6-year-old mind is not going to be able to go through childbirth without severe trauma.
Funny how you don't want a judge to decideher fate, yet you think that you are perfectly qualified to decide for her. Yay team you.

Okay, first of all, Dementia Girl, Terri Schiavo was never on "artificial life support" at all. Her body worked just fine to keep itself alive, needing only to be fed.

Second of all, no one ever disputed that Terri Schiavo had massive brain damage. The question was always 1) whether or not she would have wanted to be starved to death, and 2) whether or not it was appropriate to let a man who was suspected of having caused the brain damage decide to starve her to death.

Third, I'm kinda fascinated by how you say, "As to the party in question", and then start babbling on about some anecdote involving someone else entirely. It surprises me a little that I have to tell you that whatever people you have or have not had "dealings" with have fuck-all to do with the woman who is actually the topic. I would think the fact that human beings are all unique individuals should be blindingly obvious to anyone.

Fourth, who said anyone here - EXCEPT the abortion champions, oddly enough - want to "decide her fate for her"? The position has been that it's not appropriate for the judge to take over the decision from HER PARENTS, who certainly know her better than you and your "I can certainly tell you it will be THIS way for her" do. Are you just incapable of reading well enough to understand that that's what we've been saying, or is it just that you automatically assume everyone is as eager to make definitive statements and judgements as you are?

Terri Schiavo had a brain that had turned to mush. She was on life support, and that life support was her feeding tube. If her family wanted to pay millions to ensure she remained a vegetable for the rest of her life, good luck to them, but if the taxpayers are expected to foot the bill to keep someone like that alive, the taxpayers can, and should, fight to pull the plug.

You will excuse me, I hope, if I stick to facts, rather than your so-charmingly juvenile and crass commentary. She was NOT on life support, because a feeding tube is not "life support", any more than dialysis is for someone in kidney failure. You may assume that my instruction to Grandma vis a vis smearing, smudging, and confusing reality in order to conform to her ignorance also applies to you.

And when I want to hear your dumb foreign ass commenting on what AMERICAN taxpayers do and don't pay for . . . well, I shall never want to do that, so never mind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They avoid using it for births, it causes complications. And please don't say stupid things about those who disagree with your attempts to take over a retarded womann's uterus. I've never said any such thing about childbirth for adults, even though I went through 26 hours of labor and a breech delivery of a 10 lb baby. I dealt with it. I could. I seriously doubt a 6-year-old, and yes, she is a 6-year-old, could.

Since when?

By the way, she is 34 years old, not 6, despite the blather from the pro abortion idiots.

She has the mental age of a six year old. She thinks and acts like a six year old. Do you treat a six year old child like they are 34 years old?

She "thinks and acts like a six-year-old", huh? Do you know a lot of six-year-olds who run off to truck stops to have sex with men? And if you do, remind me never to visit YOUR neighborhood.

Once again, we run up against the need of ignorant leftist dumbasses to over-simplify a world that's just too damned complex and sophisticated for their feeble intellects.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Okay, first of all, Dementia Girl, Terri Schiavo was never on "artificial life support" at all. Her body worked just fine to keep itself alive, needing only to be fed.

Second of all, no one ever disputed that Terri Schiavo had massive brain damage. The question was always 1) whether or not she would have wanted to be starved to death, and 2) whether or not it was appropriate to let a man who was suspected of having caused the brain damage decide to starve her to death.

Third, I'm kinda fascinated by how you say, "As to the party in question", and then start babbling on about some anecdote involving someone else entirely. It surprises me a little that I have to tell you that whatever people you have or have not had "dealings" with have fuck-all to do with the woman who is actually the topic. I would think the fact that human beings are all unique individuals should be blindingly obvious to anyone.

Fourth, who said anyone here - EXCEPT the abortion champions, oddly enough - want to "decide her fate for her"? The position has been that it's not appropriate for the judge to take over the decision from HER PARENTS, who certainly know her better than you and your "I can certainly tell you it will be THIS way for her" do. Are you just incapable of reading well enough to understand that that's what we've been saying, or is it just that you automatically assume everyone is as eager to make definitive statements and judgements as you are?

Terri Schiavo had a brain that had turned to mush. She was on life support, and that life support was her feeding tube. If her family wanted to pay millions to ensure she remained a vegetable for the rest of her life, good luck to them, but if the taxpayers are expected to foot the bill to keep someone like that alive, the taxpayers can, and should, fight to pull the plug.

You will excuse me, I hope, if I stick to facts, rather than your so-charmingly juvenile and crass commentary. She was NOT on life support, because a feeding tube is not "life support", any more than dialysis is for someone in kidney failure. You may assume that my instruction to Grandma vis a vis smearing, smudging, and confusing reality in order to conform to her ignorance also applies to you.

And when I want to hear your dumb foreign ass commenting on what AMERICAN taxpayers do and don't pay for . . . well, I shall never want to do that, so never mind.

Then what would you call a feeding tube dumbfuck? Life assist?

Noomi's foreign ass is 1000% smarter than your American brain.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They avoid using it for births, it causes complications. And please don't say stupid things about those who disagree with your attempts to take over a retarded womann's uterus. I've never said any such thing about childbirth for adults, even though I went through 26 hours of labor and a breech delivery of a 10 lb baby. I dealt with it. I could. I seriously doubt a 6-year-old, and yes, she is a 6-year-old, could.

It causes complications whenever it is used...

My mother was knocked out for when she went into labor with my little brother and came to after he was born. She said it was the best delivery she had of all 5 of her kids. I had a c section after 3 days of labor and 8 hours of transition. I think I would have preferred the anesthesia. BTW, both my kids have autism and my little brother was "normal".

The decision belongs in the hands of her parents, not you, not a judge that's never met her before. The people who raised her and know her.

Three days of labor? That's horrible - but Cecilie thinks that 3 days of labor is a walk in the park. She'd probably condemn you for having a C Section.

I realize that this is probably the most complicated thinking you've ever had to manage, but could you at least ATTEMPT to understand that it's your evil desire to KILL BABIES that makes me want to vomit at the sight of you? Trying to conflate my repulsion at your barbarity, or pretend that mocking your belief that childbirth is a horrific, unendurable nightmare, with some absurd pretense that I want childbirth to be as difficult as possible just reveals you as being every bit as stupid as you are vile.

Perhaps I should point out that it's more likely that YOU would condemn her for undergoing 3 days of labor, rather than just aborting the child because the circumstances weren't perfect. But that would require me to be filth, like you, so I won't.

If this is the best attack you can muster, I can only assume that YOU know you're garbage, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The state is currently her guardians, however I think precedent will prove him wrong if he chooses to rule in favor of an abortion.


Having read about the case, I doubt he will choose to abort.

Nevada Judge Rules Against Forced Abortion for Mentally Disabled Woman

I hope the woman is able to endure the labor, and that she can cope with having her baby taken away from her.

There we go again with that unreasoning horror of childbirth.

Out of curiosity, why do you think "having her baby taken away from her" is such a terrible thing to cope with, but having her baby KILLED is no big fucking hairy deal?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

She couldn't feed herself, could she? Remove the feeding tube, and what happens? Oh yeah, she died. So the feeding tube was a kind of life support.

Christopher Reeve couldn't feed himself either, what's your point?

Reeve was a pain in the backside, too. What's your point?

If we applied your standards to quadriplegics they would all be left in a room to die of thirst. That would kill the man who is, arguably, the most intelligent man alive, Stephen Hawking.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Terri Schiavo had a brain that had turned to mush. She was on life support, and that life support was her feeding tube. If her family wanted to pay millions to ensure she remained a vegetable for the rest of her life, good luck to them, but if the taxpayers are expected to foot the bill to keep someone like that alive, the taxpayers can, and should, fight to pull the plug.

You will excuse me, I hope, if I stick to facts, rather than your so-charmingly juvenile and crass commentary. She was NOT on life support, because a feeding tube is not "life support", any more than dialysis is for someone in kidney failure. You may assume that my instruction to Grandma vis a vis smearing, smudging, and confusing reality in order to conform to her ignorance also applies to you.

And when I want to hear your dumb foreign ass commenting on what AMERICAN taxpayers do and don't pay for . . . well, I shall never want to do that, so never mind.

Then what would you call a feeding tube dumbfuck? Life assist?

Noomi's foreign ass is 1000% smarter than your American brain.

I was in a hospital a few years ago when they installed a feeding tube in my roommate. I don't know all the reasons they elected to do this, I do know that he was able to walk and talk, and that he was even able to feed himself.