Jurors in Manafort trial send judge four questions

[Avatar4321]

The longer this goes on, the greater the chance of a hung jury on all or at least some of the charges.

I can see him getting convicted on some of the smaller ones, acquitted on some of the bigger ones, and hung juries on the ones in the middle.

White collar crimes are horrible for juries to figure out.

i'd have to admit i wouldn't be qualified to understand if all these shell companies or tax issues were or were not legal. but people like me are doing the best they can here and i hope they're following the letter of the law, not their emotions, in making their decisions. since they're asking some key questions to at least try and understand, it would appear so.

with 18 charges flung on the wall you'd think something has to stick and unfortunately that seems to have been their goal. throw enough darts to where at least some get the desired effect. to me those are "games" not a hunt for the truth but that's part of our legal system also and a tool for either side to use.

Only the most deluded hacks could determine he is innocent with the amount of paperwork showing the money and who owned it and where it came from. What Gates did it didn’t say or do is irrelevant.

The question all of the magamites should be asking themselves is who will pay the price down the road if he gets off?

Gates is their whole case, how can you say what he said or did is irrelevant?

Gates is not their whole case. Not by any measure.

Why you dopes continually argue from a position of ignorance is beyond me.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

It’s also why they didn’t charge him years ago. They didn’t have Gates. So they didn’t have the evidence

 

[JakeStarkey]

The eighteen charges are carefully fashioned and well evidence.

The jury is doing its job in making sure it understands just what is "reasonable doubt."

If the jury finds Manafort guilty of most or all of the charges, the Alt and Trump right will demand an end to juries and resort to trial by judges.

Nice job of plagiarizing and bastardizing my statement above, twat.

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

 

[Defiant1]

I find it disturbing that liberals want to control what people do with their own money in countries other than the US>

 

[martybegan]

The eighteen charges are carefully fashioned and well evidence.

The jury is doing its job in making sure it understands just what is "reasonable doubt."

If the jury finds Manafort guilty of most or all of the charges, the Alt and Trump right will demand an end to juries and resort to trial by judges.

Nice job of plagiarizing and bastardizing my statement above, twat.

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I have already predicted there will be a hung jury.
There are some jurors who are asking: "If Gates handled the money and has admitted to stealing hundreds of thousands from Manafort and given the fact that Mueller dropped all 22 charges against Gates to 'get Manafort to flip' AKA 'compose' against Trump how is this justice?".

Great. None of that changes the fact that Manafort committed tax fraud on multiple occasions. Gates can't be the fall guy in Manafort's personal tax filings.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I find it disturbing that liberals want to control what people do with their own money in countries other than the US>

These are GOP investigating, charging, and trying Manafort, Defiant1. We Americans are responsible to our laws in terms of taxation whether we reside in or out of the country.

 

[Obama2020]

Gates is not their whole case. Not by any measure.

Why you dopes continually argue from a position of ignorance is beyond me.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

You're simply wrong. You obviously have not followed this trial at all.

And yet you provide no backup as to why I am wrong.

The reason for the jury to ask about reasonable doubt is because they have a choice between believing Gates or not.

No. Fifteen other people testified besides Gates. The fact that you continue to assert that it is all about Gates only highlights your ignorance of the trial.

Gates is the crux of their case, because he was the one with the hands on the levers.

If the jury thinks he is just covering his own ass, you have reasonable doubt, and then at worst for Manfort a hung jury, at best acquittals.

Correlate the bank’s info and Gate’s statements. Check mate.

That’s how Al Capone got jail time. The accountant was the key.

 

[iceberg]

Nice job of plagiarizing and bastardizing my statement above, twat.

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

this is a question of mine - what does this case have to do with trump and russia collusion? i get that "hey we found a crime we must prosecute" - go for it. put it in the system and let the system do their job. but why is mueller so heavy into this when it doesn't appear to have a thing to do wit russia or his core role today.

 

[OldLady]

Jurors in Manafort trial send judge four questions, including asking him to redefine reasonable doubt

asking to define/redefine "reasonable doubt". now each side will twist this to mean he's guilty/innocent depending on what you thought before this question from the jury was asked, but what does it really mean?

to me it sounds like someone or some people in the jury want to know how to put that against what meuller presented. does it apply or doesn't it? there must be some concerns around whether or not he did or this wouldn't come up. if some jurors were saying there was "reasonable doubt" it would come up. someone else would have to say "no there wasn't" - hence the clarification.

that alone says someone is questioning that on the jury.

if manafort is failed to be charged with a majority of the 18 charges, mueller's case against trump takes a huge it and things start falling apart. i'm glad to see the jury take this seriously and ask these questions for their own clarification. we'll see what they decide hopefully soon so we can at least get this behind us.

You stressin', iceberg?
Don't want Manafort found guilty? How come, if he broke the law?

you seem to like to "pick a fight" then get all pissed off when i hand you your ass cause you never back up what you say, just FEELZ more.

not stressin at all. i have zero stock in manafort or gates. if they're guilty, fry 'em. that's how the laws work in our country. or at least they did until the dems decided they were above such reproach.

so - you're dead wrong on what im saying. again. yet you feel the need to come in and stomp around like a king kamayamaya bitch who's emo-side of things rules whatever form of common sense you think you were gifted with at birth.

if you want to talk the issue, trial and so forth please dive in and talk about it. you wanna bitch at me and fight, take it to PM where i can kick your ass in private.

You really seem to be building me up into something I couldn't/wouldn't be in my wildest dreams. I asked if you are stressin' it. Why would you start a thread sweatin the jury asking a standard question if it weren't worrying you?
I don't see what this has to do with Dems either way. The guy broke laws or he didn't. His defense is that Gates did it and he didn't know. It will come down to whether there is evidence Manafort DID know. Hard case, probably. Neither of them are exactly Boy Scouts.
I don't really see where a guilty plea by Manafort will matter much one way or the other as far as Trump goes, unless Trump pardons him. As Trump says, he barely knew the guy and this stuff happened way before he worked for the campaign.
If it relates to Trump at all, it is in the fact that Trump seems to keep surrounding himself with crooks and liars. Just bad luck, I take it.

and you coming in with "you stressin" isn't building me into something i'm not? my not allowing you to box me into your own definition of things seems to upset you. all i can say about that is good. stop doing that and our conversations would go much better.

i asked to learn about why the would be asking and what it could mean. have you seen me take a side to say "this proves he's innocent" yet?

no you have not. not in reality anyway but since you've made me something i'm not, to you i *HAVE* said that, which is the most annoying part of talking to you. you're replying to a stereotype you've created 90% of the time, not to me.

my only trump comment was that if this *does* fall through for mueller, it does hurt the rest of his case.

am i wrong?

the fact you've pre-determined the outcome doesn't come across as a problem to you? it does to most rational people. maybe that explains it.

if this *does* fall through for mueller, it does hurt the rest of his case.
Okay, I get it now. THAT'S why you're stressin' it!

you've pre-determined the outcome
You're truly on crack this morning. Where did I determine the outcome of this case?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nice job of plagiarizing and bastardizing my statement above, twat.

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

So this is only partisan politics for you.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Jurors in Manafort trial send judge four questions, including asking him to redefine reasonable doubt

asking to define/redefine "reasonable doubt". now each side will twist this to mean he's guilty/innocent depending on what you thought before this question from the jury was asked, but what does it really mean?

to me it sounds like someone or some people in the jury want to know how to put that against what meuller presented. does it apply or doesn't it? there must be some concerns around whether or not he did or this wouldn't come up. if some jurors were saying there was "reasonable doubt" it would come up. someone else would have to say "no there wasn't" - hence the clarification.

that alone says someone is questioning that on the jury.

if manafort is failed to be charged with a majority of the 18 charges, mueller's case against trump takes a huge it and things start falling apart. i'm glad to see the jury take this seriously and ask these questions for their own clarification. we'll see what they decide hopefully soon so we can at least get this behind us.

The longer this goes on, the greater the chance of a hung jury on all or at least some of the charges.

I can see him getting convicted on some of the smaller ones, acquitted on some of the bigger ones, and hung juries on the ones in the middle.

White collar crimes are horrible for juries to figure out.

i'd have to admit i wouldn't be qualified to understand if all these shell companies or tax issues were or were not legal. but people like me are doing the best they can here and i hope they're following the letter of the law, not their emotions, in making their decisions. since they're asking some key questions to at least try and understand, it would appear so.

with 18 charges flung on the wall you'd think something has to stick and unfortunately that seems to have been their goal. throw enough darts to where at least some get the desired effect. to me those are "games" not a hunt for the truth but that's part of our legal system also and a tool for either side to use.

Only the most deluded hacks could determine he is innocent with the amount of paperwork showing the money and who owned it and where it came from. What Gates did it didn’t say or do is irrelevant.

The question all of the magamites should be asking themselves is who will pay the price down the road if he gets off?

So the jury are deluded hacks because despite their view far more evidence the you, they haven’t immediately reached your conclusion?

They haven't reached any conclusion.

 

[iceberg]

Jurors in Manafort trial send judge four questions, including asking him to redefine reasonable doubt

asking to define/redefine "reasonable doubt". now each side will twist this to mean he's guilty/innocent depending on what you thought before this question from the jury was asked, but what does it really mean?

to me it sounds like someone or some people in the jury want to know how to put that against what meuller presented. does it apply or doesn't it? there must be some concerns around whether or not he did or this wouldn't come up. if some jurors were saying there was "reasonable doubt" it would come up. someone else would have to say "no there wasn't" - hence the clarification.

that alone says someone is questioning that on the jury.

if manafort is failed to be charged with a majority of the 18 charges, mueller's case against trump takes a huge it and things start falling apart. i'm glad to see the jury take this seriously and ask these questions for their own clarification. we'll see what they decide hopefully soon so we can at least get this behind us.

You stressin', iceberg?
Don't want Manafort found guilty? How come, if he broke the law?

you seem to like to "pick a fight" then get all pissed off when i hand you your ass cause you never back up what you say, just FEELZ more.

not stressin at all. i have zero stock in manafort or gates. if they're guilty, fry 'em. that's how the laws work in our country. or at least they did until the dems decided they were above such reproach.

so - you're dead wrong on what im saying. again. yet you feel the need to come in and stomp around like a king kamayamaya bitch who's emo-side of things rules whatever form of common sense you think you were gifted with at birth.

if you want to talk the issue, trial and so forth please dive in and talk about it. you wanna bitch at me and fight, take it to PM where i can kick your ass in private.

You really seem to be building me up into something I couldn't/wouldn't be in my wildest dreams. I asked if you are stressin' it. Why would you start a thread sweatin the jury asking a standard question if it weren't worrying you?
I don't see what this has to do with Dems either way. The guy broke laws or he didn't. His defense is that Gates did it and he didn't know. It will come down to whether there is evidence Manafort DID know. Hard case, probably. Neither of them are exactly Boy Scouts.
I don't really see where a guilty plea by Manafort will matter much one way or the other as far as Trump goes, unless Trump pardons him. As Trump says, he barely knew the guy and this stuff happened way before he worked for the campaign.
If it relates to Trump at all, it is in the fact that Trump seems to keep surrounding himself with crooks and liars. Just bad luck, I take it.

and you coming in with "you stressin" isn't building me into something i'm not? my not allowing you to box me into your own definition of things seems to upset you. all i can say about that is good. stop doing that and our conversations would go much better.

i asked to learn about why the would be asking and what it could mean. have you seen me take a side to say "this proves he's innocent" yet?

no you have not. not in reality anyway but since you've made me something i'm not, to you i *HAVE* said that, which is the most annoying part of talking to you. you're replying to a stereotype you've created 90% of the time, not to me.

my only trump comment was that if this *does* fall through for mueller, it does hurt the rest of his case.

am i wrong?

the fact you've pre-determined the outcome doesn't come across as a problem to you? it does to most rational people. maybe that explains it.

if this *does* fall through for mueller, it does hurt the rest of his case.
Okay, I get it now. THAT'S why you're stressin' it!

oh good god woman - you accuse me of trying to make you something i'm not then run around doing this.

if i paypal you $20 will you stop being such a bitch?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The weak-kneed from the Trump camp are terrified that Manafort, when convicted, will flip on Trump for a lighter sentence.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Gates is not their whole case. Not by any measure.

Why you dopes continually argue from a position of ignorance is beyond me.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

You're simply wrong. You obviously have not followed this trial at all.

And yet you provide no backup as to why I am wrong.

The reason for the jury to ask about reasonable doubt is because they have a choice between believing Gates or not.

No. Fifteen other people testified besides Gates. The fact that you continue to assert that it is all about Gates only highlights your ignorance of the trial.

Gates is the crux of their case, because he was the one with the hands on the levers.

If the jury thinks he is just covering his own ass, you have reasonable doubt, and then at worst for Manfort a hung jury, at best acquittals.

Gates is the crux of their case, because he was the one with the hands on the levers.

He's not. Gates had nothing to do with Manafort's personal tax filings. By all means though, continue to be a fool.

 

[JakeStarkey]

oh good god woman - you accuse me of trying to make you something i'm not then run around doing this. if i paypal you $20 will you stop being such a bitch?

Attacking old lady only makes you look silly.

You are saying that a Manafort acquittal hurts Mueller's collusion investigation.

Nope, an acquittal will not set back Mueller's collusion case in the slightest.

 

[martybegan]

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

Saying that Manfort directed Gates to do all the things that happened IS their whole case. the documents themselves don't implicate Manfort directly enough to work without Gates' testimony, which is why he got such a plum deal to testify.

You're simply wrong. You obviously have not followed this trial at all.

And yet you provide no backup as to why I am wrong.

The reason for the jury to ask about reasonable doubt is because they have a choice between believing Gates or not.

No. Fifteen other people testified besides Gates. The fact that you continue to assert that it is all about Gates only highlights your ignorance of the trial.

Gates is the crux of their case, because he was the one with the hands on the levers.

If the jury thinks he is just covering his own ass, you have reasonable doubt, and then at worst for Manfort a hung jury, at best acquittals.

Correlate the bank’s info and Gate’s statements. Check mate.

That’s how Al Capone got jail time. The accountant was the key.

And as in that case it boils down to how much you believe the accountant.

Gates was more than accountant according to the defense, he was the one making all the financial decisions, not just doing bookkeeping.

 

[iceberg]

oh good god woman - you accuse me of trying to make you something i'm not then run around doing this. if i paypal you $20 will you stop being such a bitch?

Attacking old lady only makes you look silly.

You are saying that a Manafort acquittal hurts Mueller's collusion investigation.

Nope, an acquittal will not set back Mueller's case in the slightest.

i dare say any conversation with her makes anyone look silly.

 

[OldLady]

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

this is a question of mine - what does this case have to do with trump and russia collusion? i get that "hey we found a crime we must prosecute" - go for it. put it in the system and let the system do their job. but why is mueller so heavy into this when it doesn't appear to have a thing to do wit russia or his core role today.

As a cop so to speak, he can't just ignore crimes he finds committed while looking into Trump's campaign's dealings. You ever seen a cop go into a home and ignore a meth cook because they were there on a dv charge? No? Same difference.

 

[martybegan]

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

this is a question of mine - what does this case have to do with trump and russia collusion? i get that "hey we found a crime we must prosecute" - go for it. put it in the system and let the system do their job. but why is mueller so heavy into this when it doesn't appear to have a thing to do wit russia or his core role today.

They are operating under the snowball rolling down the hill turns into a snow boulder theory, the more it rolls, the bigger the ball gets and the bigger the people that get taken out by this.

 

[martybegan]

you have to forgive some people. they can't think on their own so they steal a lot and call it clever.

Spoofing Marty's material is so easy.

The jury will do a good, I believe, with the case that has been presented.

I am willing to accept the outcome if it goes for or against Manafort, but the Alt Right want and will support only one verdict.

The Alt right doesn't care, they are too busy being WP morons.

Regular people on the right (i.e. most people, even the ones you try to smear as alt right) know this is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Some do, yes, and most know that Manafort is a bad dude getting his day in court. Will you accept the verdict?

What do mean by accept the verdict?

Even if he gets convicted it doesn't lead to anything else. If he gets acquitted Muller will continue on anyway.

So this is only partisan politics for you.

This whole investigation is nothing but partisan politics.