Just read Koran/Quran: Some murderous, pedophilia scriptures.

[Syriusly]

The Qur'an is not the problem. The Old Testament is much nastier than The Qur'an. The problem is that while Christians perhaps never really had a hard-set belief in the word of The Bible and by the 15th Century Christianity had begun the great Reformation which made The Bible a spiritual guide rather than a book of law, that isn't the case with Islam. Arabs in the Middle East to this very day take the Qur'an to be the only reliable source of knowledge and the only needed source since it contains all knowledge. Even in moderate Islam (or as moderate as Islam gets) Muslims still look to the Qur'an as the moral authority before they look to their own common sense morality that most of us take for granted. At no point has the thought ever occurred to me that I need to check in a holy book to find out whether rape and murder are justifiable or not. And the Qur'an in several places, supported by the hadith, says yes, sometimes rape and murder are justifiable. That's why the moderates of Islam have a hard time criticizing Islamists and jihadists.

The hope would be that vast majority of moderates draw the line at putting words into the prophet's mouth that he didn't speak.. Or at least risk the conflict that would created if there was a larger more open debate about the more radical interpretations of Koran. Apparently -- they KNOW how rowdy and deadly that could become..

From what I have seen condemnation of Muslim extremists abusing the Koran is pretty widespread- it just doesn't get as much press as more extreme claims.

I am reading "Black Flag" right now on the origins of ISIS and the guys flocking to the extremist messages are not interested in what 'moderate muslims' thing- as far as they are concerned they are all apostates.

 

[Syriusly]

The Qur'an is not the problem.

I disagree, the Quran is evil lies about God that incite Muslims to make war on unbelievers. As far as I am concerned The whole point and meaning of the Quran is that Muhammad made it all up to make people follow him and fight his battles. It promises paradise to those that die in battle and punishment from God for those that run away from great odds.
The Quran invites Muslims to die for Muhammad and fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today.

Yet we have 2 million Muslims living in the United States- and we don't have 2 million Muslims out there killing for Mohammed.

We even have Muslim Americans servicemen fighting for the United States- and you want to tell them that their faith is evil- and is making them do evil things.

 

[Dajjal]

The Qur'an is not the problem.

I disagree, the Quran is evil lies about God that incite Muslims to make war on unbelievers. As far as I am concerned The whole point and meaning of the Quran is that Muhammad made it all up to make people follow him and fight his battles. It promises paradise to those that die in battle and punishment from God for those that run away from great odds.
The Quran invites Muslims to die for Muhammad and fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today.

Yet we have 2 million Muslims living in the United States- and we don't have 2 million Muslims out there killing for Mohammed.

We even have Muslim Americans servicemen fighting for the United States- and you want to tell them that their faith is evil- and is making them do evil things.

I did not say all Muslims are doing evil things, I said " fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today."
Nobody can dispute that given the fact ISIS make videos of themselves cutting off peoples heads.

 

[Syriusly]

The Qur'an is not the problem.

I disagree, the Quran is evil lies about God that incite Muslims to make war on unbelievers. As far as I am concerned The whole point and meaning of the Quran is that Muhammad made it all up to make people follow him and fight his battles. It promises paradise to those that die in battle and punishment from God for those that run away from great odds.
The Quran invites Muslims to die for Muhammad and fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today.

Yet we have 2 million Muslims living in the United States- and we don't have 2 million Muslims out there killing for Mohammed.

We even have Muslim Americans servicemen fighting for the United States- and you want to tell them that their faith is evil- and is making them do evil things.

I did not say all Muslims are doing evil things, I said " fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today."
Nobody can dispute that given the fact ISIS make videos of themselves cutting off peoples heads.

You said no such thing in your post-

I disagree, the Quran is evil lies about God that incite Muslims to make war on unbelievers. As far as I am concerned The whole point and meaning of the Quran is that Muhammad made it all up to make people follow him and fight his battles. It promises paradise to those that die in battle and punishment from God for those that run away from great odds.
The Quran invites Muslims to die for Muhammad and fanatics like ISIS are still doing it today.

ISIS is an evil death cult- that kills more Muslims than anyone else

 

[Dajjal]

ISIS is an evil death cult- that kills more Muslims than anyone else

ISIS is following the instructions in the Quran that Muhammad left behind him.



2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of God Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

4.76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.


48.16 Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, God will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

 

[Syriusly]

ISIS is an evil death cult- that kills more Muslims than anyone else

ISIS is following the instructions in the Quran that Muhammad left behind him.



2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of God Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

4.76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.


48.16 Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, God will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

So we go back to why aren't the 2 million Muslims in America following those 'instructions'?

ISIS is an evil death cult that wants to promote a final epic battle between the 'faithful' and the 'unfaithful'

And by unfaithful- they mean every single person in the world who doesn't believe their very narrow definition of Islam- which would be some 99% of the Muslims of the world.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Qur'an is not the problem. The Old Testament is much nastier than The Qur'an. The problem is that while Christians perhaps never really had a hard-set belief in the word of The Bible and by the 15th Century Christianity had begun the great Reformation which made The Bible a spiritual guide rather than a book of law, that isn't the case with Islam. Arabs in the Middle East to this very day take the Qur'an to be the only reliable source of knowledge and the only needed source since it contains all knowledge. Even in moderate Islam (or as moderate as Islam gets) Muslims still look to the Qur'an as the moral authority before they look to their own common sense morality that most of us take for granted. At no point has the thought ever occurred to me that I need to check in a holy book to find out whether rape and murder are justifiable or not. And the Qur'an in several places, supported by the hadith, says yes, sometimes rape and murder are justifiable. That's why the moderates of Islam have a hard time criticizing Islamists and jihadists.

The hope would be that vast majority of moderates draw the line at putting words into the prophet's mouth that he didn't speak.. Or at least risk the conflict that would created if there was a larger more open debate about the more radical interpretations of Koran. Apparently -- they KNOW how rowdy and deadly that could become..

From what I have seen condemnation of Muslim extremists abusing the Koran is pretty widespread- it just doesn't get as much press as more extreme claims.

I am reading "Black Flag" right now on the origins of ISIS and the guys flocking to the extremist messages are not interested in what 'moderate muslims' thing- as far as they are concerned they are all apostates.

Yeah.. I understand. But how many Muslim clerics are amongst those talking heads spewing about extremist abuse of the Koran. I've heard a few. But mostly they don't lay down SPECIFIC challenges to what the tenets of Islam really are.. Wouldn't make good news on CNN.. And it's not really a CSPAN topic..

I'd love to a see a panel of clerics discuss it openly. But I wouldn't want to be in the audience or near the theater..

 

[flacaltenn]

ISIS is an evil death cult- that kills more Muslims than anyone else

ISIS is following the instructions in the Quran that Muhammad left behind him.



2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of God Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

4.76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.


48.16 Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, God will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

So we go back to why aren't the 2 million Muslims in America following those 'instructions'?

ISIS is an evil death cult that wants to promote a final epic battle between the 'faithful' and the 'unfaithful'

And by unfaithful- they mean every single person in the world who doesn't believe their very narrow definition of Islam- which would be some 99% of the Muslims of the world.

Not that small a percentage. See the series of international polls done by Pew on sympathies for Jihadist views and actions. In most MidEast countries -- it is between 15 and 25%.