Just To Confirm....

[daveman]

Exactly what I said about Leftists.....they demand an end to freedom, to the first amendment, and to opposing voices.


This is why I like it when you post, Walter......you validate everything I write.

Oh, the first amendment doesn't give you the right to impose your Bronze Age superstitions on the rest of us.

We need freedom FROM religion, not freedom OF religion.

White American liberals will pretend these people do not exist.

No, we just don't think the internal politics of Iran are any of our business.

Unlike, say, Israel's internal politics? You got your nose all up in that.

 

[JoeB131]

Unlike, say, Israel's internal politics? You got your nose all up in that.

Only because they are picking my pocket to pay for their religious fantasies.

I'm all for getting out of Israel's politics. We cut off all funding, we close our embassies, and we let it be known, the next time the Arabs attack, we ain't getting involved.

 

[daveman]

Unlike, say, Israel's internal politics? You got your nose all up in that.

Only because they are picking my pocket to pay for their religious fantasies.

I'm all for getting out of Israel's politics. We cut off all funding, we close our embassies, and we let it be known, the next time the Arabs attack, we ain't getting involved.

The last time that happened, Israel kicked the asses of, what, 6 neighboring Arab nations?

Israel's not going anywhere, your Nazi fever dreams notwithstanding.

 

[JoeB131]

The last time that happened, Israel kicked the asses of, what, 6 neighboring Arab nations?

Israel's not going anywhere, your Nazi fever dreams notwithstanding.

Actually, the Zionshits haven't won a war since 1967 without the US bailing them out.

Eventually, the world will rid itself of the Zionist disease, just like it rid itself of the Apatheid regime.

 

[daveman]

The last time that happened, Israel kicked the asses of, what, 6 neighboring Arab nations?

Israel's not going anywhere, your Nazi fever dreams notwithstanding.

Actually, the Zionshits haven't won a war since 1967 without the US bailing them out.

Eventually, the world will rid itself of the Zionist disease, just like it rid itself of the Apatheid regime.

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

 

[JoeB131]

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

Nope, the Zionists have become the Nazis... they are like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat on someone else.

 

[daveman]

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

Nope, the Zionists have become the Nazis... they are like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat on someone else.

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

 

[bluzman61]

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

Nope, the Zionists have become the Nazis... they are like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat on someone else.

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

As you've undoubtedly noticed, little Joe IS a bit dim..............

 

[daveman]

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

Nope, the Zionists have become the Nazis... they are like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat on someone else.

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

As you've undoubtedly noticed, little Joe IS a bit dim..............

He is definitely not intelligent.

 

[JoeB131]

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

The Germans killed the Jews
The Jews Killed the Arabs

What's the difference?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And the funny part is you get all huffy when somebody calls you a Nazi.

Nope, the Zionists have become the Nazis... they are like abused children who've gotten big enough to beat on someone else.

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

As you've undoubtedly noticed, little Joe IS a bit dim..............

Walter hates everyone and everything.

It appears that he chose that rather than admitting to himself who he really hates.
At least it keeps the pistol out of his mouth.

 

[PoliticalChic]

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

The Germans killed the Jews
The Jews Killed the Arabs

What's the difference?

Only a total imbecile would say that.
Raise your paw.

 

[daveman]

NO U is not a rational rebuttal.

But it's the best you can do.

The Germans killed the Jews
The Jews Killed the Arabs

What's the difference?

Are you really this retarded?

Rhetorical question. I know you are.

The Germans sought the genocide of the Jewish people.

Israel seeks to be left alone by her neighbors.

Go be stupid somewhere else.

 

[JoeB131]

Are you really this retarded?

Rhetorical question. I know you are.

The Germans sought the genocide of the Jewish people.

Israel seeks to be left alone by her neighbors.

Go be stupid somewhere else.

Um, her "neighbors" are the people who were there before they arrived. The Jews want their holy land. The Germans wanted Leibensraum.

Same thing.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are you really this retarded?

Rhetorical question. I know you are.

The Germans sought the genocide of the Jewish people.

Israel seeks to be left alone by her neighbors.

Go be stupid somewhere else.

Um, her "neighbors" are the people who were there before they arrived. The Jews want their holy land. The Germans wanted Leibensraum.

Same thing.

"Um, her "neighbors" are the people who were there before they arrived. "


Wrong.

See...this is the result of your never having read a book, nor studied history.

Don't worry, Walter.....I've done both.



I read “The Oxford History of the Biblical World,” edited by Dr. Michael D. Coogan, director of publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum and expert in Near Eastern languages and literatures. The book is excellent on Syria-Palestinian archeology.

The following will shed light on the question.


The end of the thirteenth century BCE saw major disruptions in the civilizations of the Near East, Cyprus and Greece for unclear reasons (possible major droughts). “Many populations appear to have migrated….Egypt was attacked by groups called ‘Sea Peoples.’ They were repelled from Egypt, but the Egyptians could not stop them from taking over the Canaan coast. The Philistines …were among the Sea Peoples.”

“…the Philistines did not occupy the coast of Canaan until the twelfth century BCE…”


“Not long before, another group had appeared in the land of Canaan…This group called itself Israel…The Egyptians maintained some control over parts of Canaan until just after the death of Rameses III in 1153 BCE….[including] Canaanites, Egyptians, Israelites, and the mysterious ‘Sea Peoples,’ of whom the Philistines are the best known. The settlement process in highland Israel began a generation or two before the Sea Peoples arrived on the coast…The displacement and migration of the tribe of Dan from the central coast to the far north is symptomatic of …this event.”


“This movement is documented by a variety of written sources in Akkadian, Ugaritic, Egyptian, and Hebrew, by Egyptian wall reliefs and by archeology.”

“The Philistines bequeathed their own name to Philistia (and later to all of Palestine).”

“Cypriot archaeologists invoke the Achaeans or Danaoi of Homeric epic as the agents of culture change in Cyprus; in the Levant, the same change is ascribed to the Sea Peoples. Both agents participated in the event recorded by Rameses III and should be related to the same confederacy of Sea Peoples, or Mycenaean Greeks, who invaded the coastlands of (Cyprus) around 1185-1175.”


Further evidence of the origin of the Philistines can be seen in biblical texts, which indicate expert bowman, “chariot-warriors,” and “chariots of iron,” (I Samuel 31.3, Judg. 1.18-19) and pottery which show warriors armed like the Mycenaean warriors depicted on the famous “Warrior Vase” found in Mycenae. The description fits Goliatath, as in I Samuel 17.5-6.

Under King David, first quarter of the tenth century, the Philistines were driven back to their original coastal cities.



How ya' like dat, booooooyyyyyyeeeeeeee!!!

 

[JoeB131]

I read “The Oxford History of the Biblical World,” edited by Dr. Michael D. Coogan, director of publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum and expert in Near Eastern languages and literatures. The book is excellent on Syria-Palestinian archeology.

Uh, sorry, the Jews from Europe had nothing to do with the Hebrews/Judeans, other than sharing a religion with them. It's like saying Japan should take over India because Buddhism started there.

How ya' like dat, booooooyyyyyyeeeeeeee!!!

That you still think "Cut and Paste" equals rational thought? Um... No, not really impressive.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I read “The Oxford History of the Biblical World,” edited by Dr. Michael D. Coogan, director of publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum and expert in Near Eastern languages and literatures. The book is excellent on Syria-Palestinian archeology.

Uh, sorry, the Jews from Europe had nothing to do with the Hebrews/Judeans, other than sharing a religion with them. It's like saying Japan should take over India because Buddhism started there.

How ya' like dat, booooooyyyyyyeeeeeeee!!!

That you still think "Cut and Paste" equals rational thought? Um... No, not really impressive.

The land that the immigrant's from Europe gained was purchased from Arab residents.

So saith the King of Jordan.


One would expect to see commonplace examples of Jews stealing, strong-arming, swindling, blackmailing; basically resorting to any trick up their sleeve to pry land out of Arab hands. In reality, the Jewish technique of accumulating land was simple ... they bought it. Both the concern and the complaints of Jews dispossessing Arabs centered on how much land the Jews were purchasing, not stealing, from land owners:

• The British investigation into the Arab riots during 1936-39 identifies "Arab alarm at the continued Jewish purchase of land"1, not Jewish theft of land, as one of the motivating factors.

• "Conversely, the main Ottoman and Arab complaint against the Zionists was about land sales..."2

• "Meanwhile, Jewish land purchase continued apace, exacerbating Palestinian disquiet."3

• "Arab discontent on account of Jewish immigration and the sale of lands to Jews which has been a permanent feature of political opinion in Palestine for the past ten years, began to show signs of renewed activity from the beginning of 1933, developing in intensity until it reached a climax in the riots of October and November."4

• "In the beginning of the 1930s, the national value of the land and its transfer from one people to the other became one of the main issues in the political conflict between the two communities. The Arabs insisted that His Majesty's Government put an end to land purchase by the Jews, claiming that it threatened their national existence."5

• "Though they had profited from the enhanced trade and employment opportunities generated by the new Jewish settlements, Palestinian Arabs had grown increasingly concerned about the rise of Jewish immigration and land purchases."

6

• "An article published in July 1911 by Mustafa Effendi Tamr, a teacher of mathematics at a Jerusalem school" reads, "You are selling the property of your fathers and grandfathers for a pittance to people who will have no pity on you, to those who will act to expel you and expunge your memory from your habitations and disperse you among the nations. This is a crime that will be recorded in your names in history, a black stain and disgrace that your descendants will bear, which will not be expunged even after years and eras have gone by. ... Opposition to land sales was one of the principal focal points around which the Arab national idea in Palestine coalesced."

7

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay."

32

• King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:
  • "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.

8

• "According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine."

9

• "Or are you among those who believe that there is no harm in continuing the present deleterious mandate despite the Jewish usurpers it has brought and despite the demonstrated inability of those Palestinians now at the political helm to prevent their compatriots from selling their land? Furthermore, it is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping."

10

• "‘Know each of you that in the end every Arab who sells land of the Arab patrimony or who pimps for the Jews will soon receive his due, which is certain death.’ The placards were signed by an organization calling itself ‘Revenge.’ ‘Our problem is the outcome of the sale of our land. The amazing thing is that we sell to the Jews and then scream and wail and ask for the government’s help,’"11

• "The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity."33

Not only was the land being legally purchased, it was being purchased at drastically inflated prices. Arab land owners were making a killing selling their land during the waves of Jewish immigration in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Despite the animosity against selling land to Jews coming from elitist Arabs, it simply made good economic sense for landlords to sell while they could exploit the thriving market Jewish demand was creating. Sometimes the land being purchased was nothing more than sand dune, malarial swamps and marshes, or other unattractive plots of waste. Even so, it was payday for many landlords; a day many hadn't seen in a long time and one that wouldn't come again:

• "Until 1936 ... the Jews acquired about 25,000 dunam in the Beit-Shean Valley ... The soil was of the poorest quality, in scattered parcels of land, and it was impossible to establish even one settlement on it. The Jewish purchasers paid the full price for these lands; in addition the Government compelled them to cover all the outstanding debts that the sellers had accumulated. (In most cases not one penny of these bad debts had been paid for years.)"12

• "The Jewish authorities have nothing with which to reproach themselves in the matter of the Sursock lands. They paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."13

• "He [the Arab] may sell his land for a fantastic price and add to the congestion in the other zones by moving there. An Arab living a short distance away, just across the zone boundary, cannot obtain anything approximating the same sum for land of equal quality.”14

• "The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. “In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."15

• "The settlers were ready to pay much more than the economic value of the land. The same or better land is available a few kilometers to the east or north of the Palestine frontiers at one tenth or less of the Palestinian price."16

• “Between 1880 and 1914 over sixty thousand Jews entered Palestine … Many settled on wasteland, sand-dunes and malarial marsh, which they then drained, irrigated and farmed. In 1909 a group of Jews founded the first entirely Jewish town, Tel Aviv, on the sandhills north of Jaffa. The Jews purchased their land piecemeal, from European, Turkish and (principally) Arab landlords, mostly at extremely high prices.”17

• “By 1925 over 2,600 Jews had settled in the [Jezreel] valley, and 3,000 acres of barren hillside had been afforested. This previously uncultivated land, bought at highly inflated prices, became the pattern of all subsequent Jewish National Fund settlements in Palestine.”18

• "In his 'note of reservations' to the Report of the Woodhead Commission, Sir Alison Russel says: 'It does not appear to me that to permit an Arab to sell his land for three or four times its value, and to go with the money to a different part of the Arab world where land is cheap, can be said to "prejudice" his rights and position.'"19

• "The average price paid by Jews for the rural land they bought in Palestine during 1944 amounted to over $1000 per acre or about $250 per dunam (including the value of buildings, orchards and other improvements). These prices are, of course, highly inflated …"20

• "... land brokers sometimes purchased their shares or parcels at a very low price and sold them at ten and twenty multiples to Jewish buyers. Peasants who were in musha' villages were particularly incensed at landlords, land brokers, or agents after learning that they had been swindled."21

• "Aharon Danin of KKL told of an interesting conversation he had at the beginning of the 1940s with Khaled Zu’bi (brother of Sayf al-Din), who helped him buy land in the Zu’biyya villages east of Nazareth: He [Zu’bi] said, ‘Look, who knows better than me that your work is pure. You pay money for everything, top dollar, many times more than what the land is worth. But that doesn’t change the fact that you are dispossessing us. You are dispossessing us with money, not by force, but the fact is that we are leaving the land.’ I say to him: ‘You are from this Zu’biyya tribe which is located here, in Transjordan, and in Syria, what difference does it make to you where you are, if you are here or if you and your family are there? …’ He said: ‘It’s hard for me to tell you, but in any case the graves of my forefathers are here. I feel that we are leaving this place. It’s our fault and not yours.’"30

Footnotes:
1 Great Britain, and William Robert Wellesley Peel Peel. Palestine Royal Commission Report. London: H.M. Stationery Office, 1937.
2 Western Imperialism in the Middle East 1914 - 1958 by D. K. Fieldhouse, Pg. 125
3 Palestine and Israel: The Uprising and Beyond by David McDowall, Pg. 23
4 Report by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan, 31 December 1933
5 "The Tenants of Wadi Hawarith: Another View of the Land Question in Palestine" by Raya Adler,International Journal of Middle East Studies, Vol. 20, No. 2. (May, 1988), pg. 199.
6 Oren, Michael. Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East, 1776 to the PresentPg. 368
7 Cohen, Hillel. Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008. 45
8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.
9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.
10 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pp. 88-89. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.
11 Cohen, Hillel. Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008. 219-220.
12 Avneri, Aryeh L. The Claim of Dispossession: Jewish Land-Settlement and the Arabs 1878-1948. Efal, Israel: Yad Tabenkin, 1982. 168.
13 Hope Simpson Report, Pg. 51
14 Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, Chapter I
15 Bard, Mitchell G. Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict. 2006. 19.
16 Jewish Colonisataion and Arab Development in Palestine by David Horowitz, Central Zionist Archives, Record Group S90/File 76, 7 October 1945
17 Gilbert, Martin, and Martin Gilbert. The Routledge Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. London: Routledge, 2002. 3.
18 Gilbert, Martin, and Martin Gilbert. The Routledge Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. London: Routledge, 2002. 12.
19 Schechtman, Joseph B. Population Transfers in Asia. New York: Hallsby Press, 1949. 101
20 Schechtman, Joseph B. Population Transfers in Asia. New York: Hallsby Press, 1949. 112
21 Stein, Kenneth W. One Hundred Years of Social Change: The Creation of the Palestinian Refugee Problem. 1991.
22 Stein, Kenneth W. One Hundred Years of Social Change: The Creation of the Palestinian Refugee Problem. 1991.
23 Report by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan, 31 December 1933
24 The Tenants of Wadi Hawarith: Another View of the Land Question in Palestine by Raya Adler,International Journal of Middle East Studies, Vol. 20, No. 2. (May, 1988), pg. 197.
25 The Tenants of Wadi Hawarith: Another View of the Land Question in Palestine by Raya Adler,International Journal of Middle East Studies, Vol. 20, No. 2. (May, 1988), pg. 215.
26 Morris, Benny. 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War. New Haven [Conn.]: Yale University Press, 2008 14
27 Morris, Benny. 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War. New Haven [Conn.]: Yale University Press, 2008 83
28 Cohen, Hillel. Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008. 225.
29 Cohen, Hillel. Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008. 173.
30 Cohen, Hillel. Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008. 200.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession



Your record remains intact.....You've never been right about anything.

 

[daveman]

Are you really this retarded?

Rhetorical question. I know you are.

The Germans sought the genocide of the Jewish people.

Israel seeks to be left alone by her neighbors.

Go be stupid somewhere else.

Um, her "neighbors" are the people who were there before they arrived. The Jews want their holy land. The Germans wanted Leibensraum.

Same thing.

Wow. You really believe the Jews just showed up last century?

You really ARE that retarded.

 

[daveman]

That you still think "Cut and Paste" equals rational thought? Um... No, not really impressive.

...says the guy who believes "I HATE JEWS" is rational thought.

 

[JoeB131]

The land that the immigrant's from Europe gained was purchased from Arab residents.

So saith the King of Jordan.

you mean AFTER the British invaded their country, put them under occupation, and then tried to dump all Europe's Jews their?

You do get imperialism is a bad thing, right?

Like when Japan exploited the crap out of Korea, that was a bad thing. It really doesn't matter that it was "Legal".

Wow. You really believe the Jews just showed up last century?

You really ARE that retarded.

They weren't living in Palestine, dummy. That's the point. They were living in Europe.

Let me help you out here, buddy. In 1922, after the British stole Palestine from the Ottomans, they did a census. Their census included 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]

In short, Jews in Palestine were about 10% of the population.

This was with the British actively promoting Zionism.

In fact, there was no real interest in Europe's Jews going to Palestine until AFTER WWII, and even though much of the world thought it was a bad idea, more people felt guilty about not stopping the holocaust.

It's kind of like if I feel bad about your neighbor getting robbed, so I'm going to give him half your stuff so I can feel better.

Even though you had nothing to do with him getting robbed.